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Giants Can Take the 49ers, Right?

christian : 9/23/2020 10:23 pm
Virtually all of their good players are hurt — Bosa, Thomas, Garoppolo, Mostert, Coleman, Kittle, Ford and a bunch of other guys.

This might be the least talent the Giants line up against all year. A well coached, well executed effort, should get it done.

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RE: RE: But for a fourth down's pass stop on an excellent defensive play  
Big Blue '56 : 9/24/2020 7:31 am : link
In comment 14982936 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
Quote:
In comment 14982908 BlueLou'sBack said:


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by Blake Martinez take an "unlucky bounce" into the hands of a Bears' offensive lineman for a conversion to first down, the Giants might have had enough time to mount a last few minutes game winning drive vs the Bears.

"Such is the stuff dreams are made of" the Bard wrote.



However, if they did score in that scenario, it would have left the bears enough time to also score. Going by the pattern of the last few years, that is what would have happened.


There is NO pattern with a new coaching staff
Any given Sunday...  
trueblueinpw : 9/24/2020 7:37 am : link
Tuna used to say, “it’s not who you’re playing it when you’re playing them”. Giants could win, for sure.
RE: But for a fourth down's pass stop on an excellent defensive play  
LBH15 : 9/24/2020 8:03 am : link
In comment 14982908 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
by Blake Martinez take an "unlucky bounce" into the hands of a Bears' offensive lineman for a conversion to first down, the Giants might have had enough time to mount a last few minutes game winning drive vs the Bears.

"Such is the stuff dreams are made of" the Bard wrote.


That was extremely unlucky. NYG did themselves no favors either by allowing too much rushing yardage on that drive chewing up time/time-outs.

A last minute winning TD from Jones there would have been just what the doctored ordered for certain.
RE: RE: Back to back  
Simms11 : 9/24/2020 8:44 am : link
In comment 14982927 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
In comment 14982925 Lines of Scrimmage said:


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East coast trips for the Niners. This with all the injuries has the niners a little flat.

Our D limits the run and offensively and our OL continues with progress as the running game starts to make a impact allowing play action to be effective. Close game in the 4th quarter that the Giants pull out.



Pretty sure the miners did not travel after the jets game and practiced in Jersey..I remember reading they asked the NFL to schedule Jets/Giants back to back for this reason.


I believe they went to West Virginia to practice actually
SF doesnt stand a chance  
NoPeanutz : 9/24/2020 8:48 am : link
Especially since we fucked with the turf to make it stickier.
RE: RE: If we put too heavy a load on Daniel Jones  
M.S. : 9/24/2020 8:53 am : link
In comment 14982933 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 14982932 M.S. said:


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with no some semblance of a running game, hard to envision a win this Sunday.

More losing is on the way.



Eagerly awaiting your next negative stats thread. Do NOT disappoint. Thanks in advance..:)

Big Blue '56 -- Do you really mean to say this?

I've posted a couple of stat threads that put a positive spin on our run game. Below are two recent ones.

But regardless of how little you think of my stats threads, you know as well as anyone on BBI that an ineffective run game leads to no good. Eventually, a team has to learn how to run the ball, and create the belief and confidence that they can do so with some effectiveness. Sticking with the run game, even when it's not working at first, can (not always) help.

******************************************************************************************************************

There may be more upside to this Giants' season
M.S. : 9/22/2020 10:40 am
Than the media pundits are assuming.

So far, the Giants have the worst rushing stats in the NFL and there isn't a close second (dead last in yards per game & yards per attempt.) And with Saquon Barkley out, things aren't exactly looking rosy.

But here are a few things to consider:

(1) The lack of a running game is an offensive line issue, not a Saquon Barkley issue;

(2) As the season progresses, and our front five acclimate themselves to one another, there is no where for our run game to go but up;

(3) Any positive development in our run game -- ANY -- represents a tremendous leverage point for this team;

(4) It will take the pressure off Daniel Jones, and not force him to pass so often (he's #10 right now in attempts);

(5) It will burn a little bit more of the clock, which will help a defense that's #4 in total yards allowed.

But it all boils down to generating some semblance of a respectable run game! It doesn't have to be great; not even good. But it has to move the needle from it's paltry 52 f-ing yards per game.

If that happens, this team can turn itself into a winner IMO this season!

Of course, the leverage works both ways. If Jason Garrett/Marc Colombo continue to oversee a failed run game, I don't see 5 wins.

******************************************************************************************************************

Giants Run Percentage After Two Games
M.S. : 9/23/2020 8:12 am
The Giants have run the ball 32% of the time on offense -- that is dead last in the NFL. The average across 32 teams is 44%.

Everyone knows there's no magic formula as to how often a team should run vs pass. (And there is also a linkage with which play a team goes with more often -- such as, when you're ahead in the game in the 4th quarter, the tendency is to run the ball more; and just the opposite when a team is behind.)

So, what is "cause" and what is "effect" when it comes to winning?

But qualify the run/pass ratio anyway you want, it still boils down to this: The Giants will not play winning football carrying the rock less than one-third of the time.

IMO, there is potentially good news here, such as there is nowhere to go but up, and doing so will take a lot of pressure off our second year QB, and also give our defense -- which has played well so far -- a little more time on the bench.

Bottom line: It's practically a brand new offensive line that has played together for a mere two games. Give it a little more time, and I believe the run game will improve, as will our record.
...  
christian : 9/24/2020 9:03 am : link
Really interesting takes. So is the consensus *if* virtually all their high profile players were out, the 9ers still have better talent on the field than the Giants (the injury report is looking better for the 49ers btw).
RE: ...  
M.S. : 9/24/2020 9:09 am : link
In comment 14983012 christian said:
Quote:
Really interesting takes. So is the consensus *if* virtually all their high profile players were out, the 9ers still have better talent on the field than the Giants (the injury report is looking better for the 49ers btw).

I'm not sure if it's about "talent," or just the simple fact that the 49ers haven't demonstrated they know how to win games, and the Giants haven't.
Let's not forget we make backup QB's look like  
gtt350 : 9/24/2020 9:23 am : link
Joe Montana
RE: RE: 9ers have a lot of depth on D...  
rsjem1979 : 9/24/2020 10:09 am : link
In comment 14982923 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14982888 bw in dc said:


Quote:


and will still be very, very difficult to score on.

And Shanahan is one of the great coaches in the NFL. If anyone can stitch together a game plan to win this type of game it's him.

I don't really like our chances...



Yes, he came up big in the SB


There's plenty of room to criticize Shanahan's SB coaching record, but he didn't overthrow Emmanuel Sanders by a million miles with the game in the balance. He's also not facing the KC Chiefs on Sunday at the Meadowlands.

Speaking of Jimmy G, he's very ordinary as a QB. Count me among those who don't think the drop from him to Nick Mullens is that severe.
I expect SF to  
JonC : 9/24/2020 10:27 am : link
stuff our run, make scoring difficult, and they will run on and play action their way to a win.
The Bears just beat the Giants with Mitch Trubisky at QB  
Greg from LI : 9/24/2020 10:29 am : link
Mitch Trubisky!! Until proven otherwise, expecting anything but losses from this team is a fool's errand.
The 49ers team the Giants face Sunday  
Dnew15 : 9/24/2020 10:51 am : link
is the 2018 version - no Bosa, no Ford, no Mostert, no Sherman, no Jimmy G (out all year), no Deebo Samuel - that 2018 team was 4-12.

A worse Giants team beat them 27-23 that year.

Giants roll Sunday 27-10
...  
christian : 9/24/2020 10:54 am : link
If a team potentially doesn't have their quarterback, leading rusher, leading receiver, and 2 out of their 3 leading pass rushers -- that's a pretty rough statement on the talent of the Giants if that doesn't sway things in their favor.
And Kyle Shanahan is  
Dnew15 : 9/24/2020 10:55 am : link
record as a HC in the NFL is 26-27.

Take 2019 out of the equation and he's 11-23.

Great coach or got lucky one year....
RE: I expect SF to  
Thegratefulhead : 9/24/2020 11:14 am : link
In comment 14983116 JonC said:
Quote:
stuff our run, make scoring difficult, and they will run on and play action their way to a win.
It is my hope that we will game plan against them the way teams have game planned against us. We sell out to stop to the run and force Mullens to beat us without Kittle. Maybe their DL will tire late. I would like to see our coaching staff win a game by out game planning our opponent. Seems like a very long time since that has happened for us.
RE: The 49ers team the Giants face Sunday  
bw in dc : 9/24/2020 11:19 am : link
In comment 14983151 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
is the 2018 version - no Bosa, no Ford, no Mostert, no Sherman, no Jimmy G (out all year), no Deebo Samuel - that 2018 team was 4-12.

A worse Giants team beat them 27-23 that year.

Giants roll Sunday 27-10


There are still quality players on that very deep D. And Saleh is an upper level DC.

We don't have Barkley, Shepherd is out, our OL is shaky, and Jones is still struggling with his decision making.

So thinking we will simply "roll" is hard to conclude...

Problem is the matchup on both lines  
JonC : 9/24/2020 11:19 am : link
I'd be surprised if SF didn't win both.
Giants need to start winning games..  
Sean : 9/24/2020 11:22 am : link
Especially Jones. The noise for Trevor Lawrence will grow each week if there is not a considerable improvement in Jones play which includes:
-More points
-Less turnovers

1-2 will go a long way into quieting some of that noise. 0-3 with back to back road games in LA & Dallas will get very ugly.
On any given Sunday  
US1 Giants : 9/24/2020 11:22 am : link
anything can happen. I would be happy and very surprised if the Giants beat the 49ers this weekend.
Does anyone besides me detect a note of sarcasm  
BlueLou'sBack : 9/24/2020 11:23 am : link
in the OP?

Well I've heard some of the Pod media analysts throwing this idea around.

The 9ers stayed in Virginia somewhere this week rather than return to the Bay area, right? Did LT or anyone else send over some hookers and blow to keep them busy on this east coast hiatus?

If not, I'm thinking defeating SF is an uphill challenge demanding a no TO game from the Giants. Whose betting on that?
And Kyle Shanahan...  
bw in dc : 9/24/2020 11:25 am : link
has proven that the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree with his ability to generate a running game with seemingly anyone off the street.

So even with Mostert out, I could Shanahan figuring out a way to stitch together a quality running scheme with McKinnon and Wilson.
Arent 3/4 of their DL out plus 1 LB maybe?  
PatersonPlank : 9/24/2020 11:42 am : link
Add in Mostert, Kittle, and Garrapolo, and of course we can win this game
We'll see  
dlauster : 9/24/2020 11:43 am : link
Until the Giants stop spotting teams two turnovers per game, nothing changes.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/24/2020 11:47 am : link
Even with all of their injuries, I think NYG will need to play a turnover-free game and need SF to make a few mistakes of their own in order to win.

It's not an impossible task - it's just unlikely. I still think they're probably the better team even with all of these guys out and even though the Jets are awful, they put a shellacking on them without the majority of these players.

So, they don't need to be at full strength to beat us.
RE: Arent 3/4 of their DL out plus 1 LB maybe?  
bw in dc : 9/24/2020 11:50 am : link
In comment 14983230 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Add in Mostert, Kittle, and Garrapolo, and of course we can win this game


Yes on the DL. But I think Green will play.

But there is some interesting depth on the DL. Ansah is actually still a back-up and Hyder looks very interesting as a DE. Plus, they invested a high first this year in DL Javon Kinlaw. So Saleh has parts to work with...

I expect Kittle to play and wouldn't be surprised if JG plays, too. The NFCW is brutal this year and the 9ers have to stay within striking distance. Especially against lower caliber team like the Giants on their schedule. So you can make a very good case that this is actually a "must win" for them...
McKinney and Reed are both pretty talented  
ron mexico : 9/24/2020 11:52 am : link
Their OL and back 7 seem to be intact.

If Mullens can manage the game, it will be a tough game.
RE: Problem is the matchup on both lines  
LBH15 : 9/24/2020 11:55 am : link
In comment 14983196 JonC said:
Quote:
I'd be surprised if SF didn't win both.


I think that D-Line needs to really step up more. They are seemingly the most talented unit on the team (with some depth too) and they haven't show nearly enough consistency. Despite the accolades some give them here for some flashes, they have been pushed around a fair bit too.

I also think that unit got an earful from Judge last week.
Giants  
TyreeHelmet : 9/24/2020 12:04 pm : link
Yet they are still a 4.5 point underdog for a reason. What does that tell you about this roster? Currently constructed they don't have one player on offense teams need to specifically scheme for.

I sure hope they do but I am not expecting a win.
RE: Does anyone besides me detect a note of sarcasm  
christian : 9/24/2020 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14983205 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
in the OP?

Well I've heard some of the Pod media analysts throwing this idea around.

The 9ers stayed in Virginia somewhere this week rather than return to the Bay area, right? Did LT or anyone else send over some hookers and blow to keep them busy on this east coast hiatus?

If not, I'm thinking defeating SF is an uphill challenge demanding a no TO game from the Giants. Whose betting on that?


No sarcasm, scouts honor. Believe me, I'm not blown away by the talent and depth on the Giants. But there's only so much an opponent can absorb injury wise.

I don't know if I've ever seen a comedy of injuries like the 9ers last week. I was half expecting Shanahan to go out with an ACL.

I have to believe the Giants can get it done this week. I don't think that says much about the future, but ya gotta beat backups.
No mention of the 49ers OL?  
cosmicj : 9/24/2020 12:39 pm : link
We should know better than to ignore them. That line is talented and healthy.
RE: RE: The 49ers team the Giants face Sunday  
Dnew15 : 9/24/2020 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14983195 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14983151 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


is the 2018 version - no Bosa, no Ford, no Mostert, no Sherman, no Jimmy G (out all year), no Deebo Samuel - that 2018 team was 4-12.

A worse Giants team beat them 27-23 that year.

Giants roll Sunday 27-10



There are still quality players on that very deep D. And Saleh is an upper level DC.

We don't have Barkley, Shepherd is out, our OL is shaky, and Jones is still struggling with his decision making.

So thinking we will simply "roll" is hard to conclude...


Shanahan's 49ers rushing ranks by years since he became head coach:
2017 - 22nd
2018 - 15th
2019 - 2nd

It took him three years to put the pieces of the machine together to get himself that slam dunk running game like his father had.

There becomes a point where there's too many key cogs in the machine missing and I think this 49ers team is ripe for the pickin.

Maybe I have the blue colored glasses on - and truth be told I don't think the Giants roll - but I think they win the game.

And if there's going to be a ray of hope for this team t his season - they better win this game.
Dnew...  
bw in dc : 9/24/2020 12:56 pm : link
I certainly understand why the game is more winnable with so many 9ers out. But their OL is still intact. Plus, if Kittle is good to go, then he's basically another OL.

And let's be honest, Shanahan, like his dad, has demonstrated that he has a very shrewd eye for spotting under-valued RBs. He really does have a true running system. It's flexible and designed to fit many RB types.

If we do win I would expect it's a result of Mullens making a lot of mistakes. Which could easily occur.



RE: Dnew...  
Thegratefulhead : 9/24/2020 1:27 pm : link
In comment 14983335 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I certainly understand why the game is more winnable with so many 9ers out. But their OL is still intact. Plus, if Kittle is good to go, then he's basically another OL.

And let's be honest, Shanahan, like his dad, has demonstrated that he has a very shrewd eye for spotting under-valued RBs. He really does have a true running system. It's flexible and designed to fit many RB types.

If we do win I would expect it's a result of Mullens making a lot of mistakes. Which could easily occur.


It has my hope that because you see this, the coaches do as well. We should force Mullens to beat us. Fill the box.
It just reeks of a winnable game for the Giants..  
Dnew15 : 9/24/2020 1:39 pm : link
49ers have all the excuses in the world for losing this game: injuries, the MetLife turf, back-to-back games in NY ...

I really think this is a Danny Jones measuring stick game. He absolutely can't turn the ball over and has to make plays - this game is on him.

It won't be a blow out either way - the Giants will have to win the game late, which is a hump that they haven't figured out how to get over consistently.

If the Giants are going to right the ship with this new group of players and with this new coaching staff - this is the kind of game they have to start winning.
At home...  
GMen72 : 9/24/2020 2:05 pm : link
against a team with half their starters injured...and the Giants are 4 point dogs. Let that sink in.
RE: .  
Route 9 : 9/25/2020 2:30 am : link
In comment 14983245 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Even with all of their injuries, I think NYG will need to play a turnover-free game and need SF to make a few mistakes of their own in order to win.

It's not an impossible task - it's just unlikely. I still think they're probably the better team even with all of these guys out and even though the Jets are awful, they put a shellacking on them without the majority of these players.

So, they don't need to be at full strength to beat us.


Ha. You know what team you're talking about, correct?

The Giants - who always fumble and turn the ball over and hardly ever create turnovers themselves... need to be on the other end of their usual follicle development?

Then when they do... field goal. Sure they got a few this year and maybe I'll be incorrect but they're still the lowest scoring team in the league as well.

How about some points? I'm sick of watching one touchdown and then that's it from the offense for the day in the endzone.
...  
christian : 9/25/2020 9:14 am : link
I'm hoping we see a lot more clogging of the run lanes, and less amoeba looks. They will break a few big runs no doubt. But this is a game where Mullens has to beat you. I think this is the first match up all year where the Giants D can really focus on one area.
RE: ...  
BlueLou'sBack : 9/25/2020 9:26 am : link
In comment 14983841 christian said:
Quote:
I'm hoping we see a lot more clogging of the run lanes, and less amoeba looks. They will break a few big runs no doubt. But this is a game where Mullens has to beat you. I think this is the first match up all year where the Giants D can really focus on one area.


I thought that would have been the approach last week given Trubisky?

OK this week even moreso.
RE: ...  
djm : 9/25/2020 10:47 am : link
In comment 14983153 christian said:
Quote:
If a team potentially doesn't have their quarterback, leading rusher, leading receiver, and 2 out of their 3 leading pass rushers -- that's a pretty rough statement on the talent of the Giants if that doesn't sway things in their favor.


OK. But we are without our leading rusher and receiver. We also have a work in progress Qb that is on his second system in his 14 or so games played in the NFL.

I know I am just making excuses. But they are facts.
we also lost our supposed starting safety  
djm : 9/25/2020 10:48 am : link
in McKinney

but yea, The niners are without 6-7 starters.

Cry me a fucking river. We are always without 6-7 starters it seems. Ok as of this second it's only 3-4, woopdy damn doo.
RE: And Kyle Shanahan...  
djm : 9/25/2020 10:49 am : link
In comment 14983207 bw in dc said:
Quote:
has proven that the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree with his ability to generate a running game with seemingly anyone off the street.

So even with Mostert out, I could Shanahan figuring out a way to stitch together a quality running scheme with McKinnon and Wilson.


He's generating running game thanks to one of the best OLs in football. Good running games never happen by accident.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 9/25/2020 11:24 am : link
In comment 14983853 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14983841 christian said:


Quote:


I'm hoping we see a lot more clogging of the run lanes, and less amoeba looks. They will break a few big runs no doubt. But this is a game where Mullens has to beat you. I think this is the first match up all year where the Giants D can really focus on one area.



I thought that would have been the approach last week given Trubisky?

OK this week even moreso.


I think the Giants didn’t sell out enough on stopping the run against the Bears. And still they only gave up 17 points.

If I’m Graham, I’m throwing my strength at their strength. Tomlinson, Williams, and Lawrence are the strength.
...  
christian : 9/27/2020 6:32 pm : link
Woof. Did I get that wrong.
It was a good try though  
LBH15 : 9/27/2020 6:35 pm : link
Christian.
Yes, this thread was worth rereading.  
cosmicj : 9/27/2020 6:39 pm : link
Instead of complaining about the Giants, I’ll instead say that I was really impressed by the play of the 49ers two first rounders. I didn’t even know who Aiyuk was. His very limited college career made him a very risky pick, but I thought his potential was obvious. Lynch knows what he’s doing.
SF lines  
JonC : 9/27/2020 6:50 pm : link
owned the game. Also, SF collective football IQ was prominent from Shanahan right on down.
Yeah, Jon  
cosmicj : 9/27/2020 6:53 pm : link
Rereading the thread, I read your post and thought “of course, Jon was the one who was absolutely dead on.” Surprise, surprise :)
RE: It was a good try though  
christian : 9/27/2020 7:08 pm : link
In comment 14987114 LBH15 said:
Quote:
Christian.


My favorite observation: make Mullens beat you. And sure enough, yup.
The Giants took it all right  
Route 9 : 9/27/2020 7:10 pm : link
...
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