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Kaden Smith need to start!

Tuckrule : 9/24/2020 5:53 am
It’s clear as day the most complete tight end on this roster is smith. He even lined up at fullback on a few plays and did a nice job. In a way he gives us more flexibility then Engram. I rewatched the game and he really stood out to me. His blocking is excellent both run and pass. He’s a good enough athlete out there to make plays and we saw that last season. I’m not sure why engram continues to be there inline and just totally blowing run blocking assignments. When judge came here he said you earn your job nobody is given anything. Well, it’s clear as day, engram has 9 lives. We’ll be a better football team when Kaden smith is on the field more and engram is on the field less. As many have said he isn’t quick enough to play WR full time but they need to find a different role for this guy. For heaven’s sake please get him off the los because he cannot block an nfl defensive end or linebacker.
I’m for it,  
Big Blue '56 : 9/24/2020 6:37 am : link
but Greg says he’s too slow, so no..:)
Move Engram to WR  
Eli Wilson : 9/24/2020 7:21 am : link
We're short there, anyways. His blocking might be a plus at WR when he's going against DBs.
Engram's role  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 9/24/2020 7:32 am : link
His role should be having been cut if what Judge said was true. There is nothing he is good at on a football field. He is a definite Reese pick, great measurables but cannot play!
With Shepard out, the Giants will be in 12 personnel...  
Big Blue Blogger : 9/24/2020 7:51 am : link
...even more than usual. So I think the decision is more Smith vs, Toilolo than Smith vs. Engram, at least for the next three weeks or until one of the TEs inevitably gets injured. Against the Bears, Toilolo was strictly TE3. So Smith seems to be winning the TE2 battle, which will put him on the field about half the time, maybe more.

We’re all frustrated with Evan Engram; but given the available personnel, our offense is likely better, in most down/distance scenarios, with him on the field.
Tuck - Kaden Smith's blocking is excellent both run and pass?  
LBH15 : 9/24/2020 7:54 am : link
I honestly haven't seen comments or film on him so you could be right, but its difficult to perceive anybody on this team is doing something at a level of excellence thus far. Maybe James Bradberry but that is about it.

If you are really just suggesting Smith is excellent when compared to Engram's sad blocking, fine. But then I would suggest Engram adds considerably more with ability to move the chains in the passing game and this team needs more scores too.
By the way, with regard to Levine Toilolo...  
Big Blue Blogger : 9/24/2020 8:01 am : link
At the moment, he looks like a horrible signing, and he probably is. But considering the usual attrition at TE, he’s likely to play at some point. His two-year deal is structured as a pure one-year commitment with no cap consequences in year two. So the team can cut him or squeeze him for a Spencer Pulley-type salary reduction in 2021 if his role remains inconsequential and better options emerge. Nobody pays $3MM for an aging #3 TE.
RE: By the way, with regard to Levine Toilolo...  
LBH15 : 9/24/2020 8:06 am : link
In comment 14982952 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
At the moment, he looks like a horrible signing, and he probably is.


BBB - Has he looked bad, or are you suggesting an overpay problem?
I'm hoping that two losses into the season gets Judge more creative.  
Dinger : 9/24/2020 8:25 am : link
He has a bit of old school in him (glad he got the 3 points instead of going for it on 4th down), but I do believe he has that 'whatever works' mentality. So go to your better blocking tight ends and make Engram the 'Z' receiver or an H Back. Go crazy and make Peppers a WR or a running back (More and more he seems to have better offensive instincts that defensive). try a fake field goal or punt, keep your opponent, an overwhelming favorite, guessing. I like what I see with the staff and their adjustments and preparation so far. We have been a cellar dweller for too long. mix it up here and there.
RE: By the way, with regard to Levine Toilolo...  
Big Blue Blogger : 9/24/2020 8:28 am : link
LBH15 said:
Quote:
BBB - Has he looked bad, or are you suggesting an overpay problem?

Yes. ☹️

He was bad enough in Week One to play only a handful of snaps against Chicago, strictly as the third TE. So the Giants are paying him ~$200K/week to back up Engram and Smith. That’s bad.

They also aren’t developing any young talent at the position. The Giants are among the handful (five?) of teams with no TE on the practice squad. Several teams have two. The Ravens have three, including ex-Giant Jerell Adams.
There were a bunch of clips from ‘training camp’ with Smith in the  
Spider56 : 9/24/2020 9:16 am : link
backfield as the lead blocker ... I’m sure we’ll see him there at some point. I thought this guy Levine was supposed to be a beast of a blocker but we haven’t seen that yet ... personally, I was sorry to see Garrett Dickerson go, I thought he showed potential. The bottom line problem is that Engram gets all the hype as a super talent, but he can’t block worth a shit so it leaves the offense with a big hole. JG needs to either figure out how to use his skills, or trade him now.
I like Smith  
TommyWiseau : 9/24/2020 9:31 am : link
He seems to be going hard every play out there. Is he a #1 TE? That remains to be seen but he can be a solid 2nd TE for a good team
In theory Engram hasn't had a decent coach in his three years here  
adamg : 9/24/2020 9:33 am : link
Give him a few more weeks in the hot seat before looking to move on. We're better off trading Engram than just moving him down the depth chart.
RE: Engram's role  
TommyWiseau : 9/24/2020 9:33 am : link
In comment 14982939 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
Quote:
His role should be having been cut if what Judge said was true. There is nothing he is good at on a football field. He is a definite Reese pick, great measurables but cannot play!


We should have drafted TJ Watt or Ramczyk like many on here were saying pre draft
Last year Engram was out for the Bears game and Smith  
shyster : 9/24/2020 9:38 am : link
played 98% of offensive snaps.

He had 5 catches for a grand total of 17 yards, as the Giants scored 14 points and lost.

This past Sunday, Smith played 48% of offensive snaps; he produced two catches for a total of negative one yard.

This past Sunday, Engram had six catches in the second half for 65 yards and was, other than Jones, the biggest single reason the offense gave the Giants at least a chance to win the game.

Carry on.
Yea  
Glover : 9/24/2020 9:43 am : link
Play Smith most downs. This idea that Engram cant play WR is absolute bullshit. He's pretty much worthless as a blocker, and with Shepard out and Tate being Tate, Engram has to be able to be the 3rd WR. Line him up and motion him out. Shit, figure something out. Hopefully this week we will see him expand his role on offense.
RE: I’m for it,  
Greg from LI : 9/24/2020 9:49 am : link
In comment 14982924 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
but Greg says he’s too slow, so no..:)


Play him, don't play him, I don't care. My point was that he's a below average TE, just like Engram, so it doesn't really matter.
Toilolo  
HomerJones45 : 9/24/2020 9:59 am : link
is basically a blocker. He's never been much of a receiver.

Greg is right. Smith is pretty meh. He averaged less than 9 yards a catch last season and he isn't much of a blocker. Go ahead and start him but this is not exactly a dynamic player.
Evan Engram fits a very important role on this team...  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/24/2020 10:06 am : link
...of getting garbage-time yards when the team is already down by three possessions.
RE: Toilolo  
Greg from LI : 9/24/2020 10:22 am : link
In comment 14983084 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
Greg is right.


Us being in agreement is always going to feel slightly surreal.
To me Engram  
allstarjim : 9/24/2020 10:32 am : link
is a slot TE much like how Belichick used Aaron Hernandez. That's what he's pretty good at, and he shouldn't be playing with his hand in the dirt.

The problem is, this team is flush with slot WRs.
After last year I'm surprised he hasn't been targeted more  
Blue21 : 9/24/2020 10:49 am : link
.
RE: Engram's role  
NYG22 : 9/24/2020 10:50 am : link
In comment 14982939 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
Quote:
His role should be having been cut if what Judge said was true. There is nothing he is good at on a football field. He is a definite Reese pick, great measurables but cannot play!


I missed it. What did JJ say about EE?
RE: Move Engram to WR  
djm : 9/24/2020 10:50 am : link
In comment 14982935 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
We're short there, anyways. His blocking might be a plus at WR when he's going against DBs.


I don't think Engram is twitchy enough to be a WR. WTF do I know, but he doesn't move like a WR to me. He moves like a move TE. Problem is he blocks like a tissue paper.
RE: Evan Engram fits a very important role on this team...  
eric2425ny : 9/24/2020 2:20 pm : link
In comment 14983091 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...of getting garbage-time yards when the team is already down by three possessions.


Ha ha, great for the fantasy players!
RE: RE: Move Engram to WR  
Tuckrule : 9/24/2020 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14983148 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14982935 Eli Wilson said:


Quote:


We're short there, anyways. His blocking might be a plus at WR when he's going against DBs.



I don't think Engram is twitchy enough to be a WR. WTF do I know, but he doesn't move like a WR to me. He moves like a move TE. Problem is he blocks like a tissue paper.


spot on. He doesnt have that quick twitch and change of direction ability to beat corners. He moves like a tight end unfortunately he just doesnt have the power to block consistently in the run game so then does he become a situational tight end? Thats probably his best role. Regarding Smiths speed hes absolutely quick enough and showed that last season. He makes plays when called upon and gets open. Nobody is asking him to be travis kelce or Darren waller. IMO the offense would open up a lot if he was the starting tight end. Creates different looks that you cant do with EE and you have a tight end whos a plus blocker. A novel idea to us giants fans.
RE: Last year Engram was out for the Bears game and Smith  
Tuckrule : 9/24/2020 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14983055 shyster said:
Quote:
played 98% of offensive snaps.

He had 5 catches for a grand total of 17 yards, as the Giants scored 14 points and lost.

This past Sunday, Smith played 48% of offensive snaps; he produced two catches for a total of negative one yard.

This past Sunday, Engram had six catches in the second half for 65 yards and was, other than Jones, the biggest single reason the offense gave the Giants at least a chance to win the game.

Carry on.


this take is stupid i just want to show people what fantasy football can do to ones mind....yea its smiths fault he caught screen pass and got hit behind the line. Stats!!!!!!!
PFF blocking grades Smith vs Engram weeks 1 and 2  
Tuckrule : 9/24/2020 2:53 pm : link
week 1

Smith
pass block-71.2 2 plays
run block-86.1 13 plays

Engram
pass block-18.2 14 plays
run block-32.9 4 plays

week 2

Smith
pass block-73.9 4 plays
run block-69.3 10 plays

Engram
pass block-75.1 5 plays
run block-55.9 14 plays
RE: PFF blocking grades Smith vs Engram weeks 1 and 2  
shyster : 9/24/2020 3:28 pm : link
In comment 14983493 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
week 1

Smith
pass block-71.2 2 plays
run block-86.1 13 plays

Engram
pass block-18.2 14 plays
run block-32.9 4 plays

week 2

Smith
pass block-73.9 4 plays
run block-69.3 10 plays

Engram
pass block-75.1 5 plays
run block-55.9 14 plays


Thank you for posting the Week 2 blocking stats, where Engram was far more respectable than people would expect or give him credit for.

As I mentioned, Smith played the entire game vs the Bears last November. A positive impact on the running game was not apparent: Barkley was 17 for 59; Gallman 1 for 1.

Smith may have a role on the team but he hasn't shown his receiving ability makes him an all-around TE and a replacement for Engram.

Especially with Shepard out, Engram has to be on the field.



I think Smith is a JAG  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/24/2020 3:33 pm : link
Giants may have the worst TEs in the league if Engram doesn't show something. He needs to make some plays. Watch the other TEs in the league.
Don't tell me Engram doesn't have the tools to play WR .....  
Manny in CA : 9/24/2020 3:50 pm : link

On the other hand, he continues to hurt the team at TE, I'll agree.

https://www.giants.com/video/evan-engram-s-best-plays-from-week-3-vs-bucs

If the team needs consistent TE play, Smith is our man.

Right now, if we could find a high quality center to trade for, I'd move Engram.
watching the Raiders  
jestersdead : 9/24/2020 4:53 pm : link
I don't understand why the Giants don't use Engram the same way the Raiders use Waller?
smith isn't a burner but  
Platos : 9/24/2020 5:21 pm : link
but at 6'5" 250 he's a decent redzone target with decent hands. i think he catches about 80% of his targets since joining the team.

yea, they aren't for 15 yards down the field, but he catches them.
RE: Last year Engram was out for the Bears game and Smith  
81_Great_Dane : 9/24/2020 6:18 pm : link
In comment 14983055 shyster said:
Quote:
played 98% of offensive snaps.

He had 5 catches for a grand total of 17 yards, as the Giants scored 14 points and lost.

This past Sunday, Smith played 48% of offensive snaps; he produced two catches for a total of negative one yard.

This past Sunday, Engram had six catches in the second half for 65 yards and was, other than Jones, the biggest single reason the offense gave the Giants at least a chance to win the game.

Carry on.
Facts vs fantasies.
People are so down on Engram  
Breeze_94 : 9/24/2020 11:41 pm : link
is it really his fault that the coaches are lining him up to be an inline blocker?

To be fair, I don't think he ever fit into the past 2 regimes plan so they are forcing him into a role that he is not fit for instead of using him to his skillset.

Right now he is the only guy on this offense who creates any type of a matchup problem for the defense

RE: Move Engram to WR  
Giant4Life : 9/26/2020 7:10 am : link
In comment 14982935 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
We're short there, anyways. His blocking might be a plus at WR when he's going against DBs.


Exactly, but I'd play him in the slot. As a big slot receiver, he'd be a beast.
RE: RE: Move Engram to WR  
Milton : 9/26/2020 12:57 pm : link
In comment 14984417 Giant4Life said:
Quote:
In comment 14982935 Eli Wilson said:


Quote:


We're short there, anyways. His blocking might be a plus at WR when he's going against DBs.



Exactly, but I'd play him in the slot. As a big slot receiver, he'd be a beast.
If only he could catch.
It's not about what position he plays  
Milton : 9/26/2020 1:05 pm : link
Or how the Giants are using him. It's about him. He is an incomplete player to begin with and when you add in the inconsistency which showed its face his rookie year and continues into his fourth year. It's the inconsistency that they've always believed they could coach out of him, but have failed to do so. If they could at least depend on him to catch the football when it hits him in the hands, they could find a role for him. But alas...
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