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| Which teams are among the top five most analytically advanced? 1. Baltimore Ravens (23) 2. Cleveland Browns (20) 3. Philadelphia Eagles (18) T4. Buffalo Bills (7) T4. San Francisco 49ers (7) T6. Minnesota Vikings (6) T6. Seattle Seahawks (6) T8. Indianapolis Colts (5) T8. Los Angeles Rams (5) T8. New England Patriots (5) T11. Dallas Cowboys (4) T11. Miami Dolphins (4) T11. New York Giants (4) |
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| Which team is the least analytically advanced? 1. Washington Football Team (6) 2. Tennessee Titans (5) T3. Cincinnati Bengals (3) T3. New York Giants (3) |
Who really cares what Gettleman did in Carolina, who he mentored, and what those people did after? What has Gettleman achieved as the Giants GM? Has he built a program that rigorously collects data, has the expertise to analyze it, and the wherewithal to use and not the outputs at the right times?
Rehashing something NGD said like 3 years ago, and just tirelessly and repeatedly carpet bombing every thread that mentions analytics with the same old tired insults, has got to get boring at some point, no?
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/1/2018 8:40 pm : link
you are stating things you know jackshit about
You keep saying that Gettleman shuns analytics and did nothing in Carolina. You said "Nothing!!". I know for a fact that he did things. I'm not an analytics expert, but I'm close to the Panthers!!
You continually reference knowledge of cloud architecture and setting up analytic systems. You have said you are an expert. What does that have to do with refuting that Gettleman hates analytics and "did nothing" in Carolina, a complete falsehood?
You keep saying I'm a luddite and out of my league, but exactly what more do I have to do to make your statement that Gettleman shuns analytics to be a steaming pile of shit?
NoGainDayne : 10/1/2018 8:52 pm : link
You are a luddite and an idiot. Why have you not crawled back in your luddite cave yet? You called me an ill informed idiot but it is you who is the idiot time and again. The GM of the Giants openly mocked the need for analytics and there is no evidence that exists that he used analytics in Carolina.. The way he mocks advanced analytics professionals reflects that he has not worked with talented ones or understands what it takes to recruit them. We don't have qualified people here and we need to see that Giants page updating with real technical minds soon. There's a technological war being waged and we don't have any weapons.
But a foul-mouthed idiot said things have been done.
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/1/2018 9:06 pm : link
purposely dense? I posted an article that showed Gettleman implemented the analytics program in Carolina!!
NoGainDayne : 10/1/2018 9:17 pm : link
I googled several teams followed by "analytics software" and the Jags, Pats and Eagles all have glowing reviews of what they are doing with analytics. The Giants? Nothing shows up. When you do it for the Carolina Panthers you see only articles on what the Florida Panthers are doing.
Why should I believe an article posted by a disingenuous luddite? There is no evidence Carolina did anything under Gettleman
You've continued the charade for over 2 years that you didn't say Gettleman didn't do anything in Carolina, even after you were shown proof! Then you ignorantly ignored the proof. The above is proof of that ignorance.
Keep that in mind when you act as if you never claimed certain things - the very thing that drew me into this ridiculous debate at the beginning!
When some jackass continually refers to being right, when he was clearly wrong - and on a lot of the analytics stuff - I'm going to point it out.
Also post the whole thread if you want to quote random parts of it, you just don't want people to see the rest of the context. You guys came at me like a pack of wild dogs. Believe it or not my full time job isn't to validate my theories about football analytics. Most of the time I'm cranking out text, I type and think fast, I'm not going to sit here and edit every post when you are throwing childish insults at me.
The meaning of everything I said holds. I've made the argument again here about the meaning. You just don't get it. You don't seem to get anything that doesn't revere the Giants.
Just sayin'
Oh and I agree with NGD on one thing. Fats doesn't care whether he gets positive or negative attention. Just as long as he gets attention... He never actually stakes out a position directly. He just attacks people whose opinions he dislikes. Then when the other person is correct, he can always claim he never took the opposite position, only that the poster was F'ed up. Fats types an awful lot, but if you really look at it, he says next to nothing, and his only purpose is to brew division, and argument. Watch him more carefully. And you know what we always say around here. Stop feeding the trolls.
You take these little pot shots all the time but on this debate you were on the wrong side of it. And other than complete hyperbole like suggesting I've said teams do zero analytics, something I've logically refuted many times, that's all you've got. Stupid little pot shots.
I don't want to position you as anything. We're on the same side. Analytics is valuable and we should get as good at it as we can be and use it as one of several decision-making stands such as scouting, personality, chemistry etc.
My issue in so much as there is one is this piece of analysis is a terrible example of analytics. The Giants show up in both the top ten and the worst ten. Every team state they do analytics to a certain level but believe only 50% of the league do. It's a worthless survey.
"NEVER stakes out a position directly"??
My position was crystal-clear on this argument from Day 1. Gettleman instituted the analytics program in Carolina. It was to directly refute the claim he didn't. It wasn't an opinion - it was a fact.
A guy crapped on Gettleman for words used in a press conference and then came to conclusions he passed off as fact that differed greatly from reality. A reality I knew because I had direct ties to what Carolina was doing at that time.
I staked my position very clearly. I think some of you guys just don't like being called on the bullshit
When some jackass continually refers to being right, when he was clearly wrong - and on a lot of the analytics stuff - I'm going to point it out.
But don't you see the tailspin every one of these threads goes into, and the two of you literally have a paragraphs long rehashing of the same endless points?
Seriously, what is the value you think there is in pointing it out?
I see way to much supposition, emotional hot takes, bad faith arguments, tons of speculation instead of facts, ego, logic leaps to consider any of the frequent posters on the subject analytically sound and critical thinkers on the site and likely in life patterns.
So hence the rationale in not even trying
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it goes directly to his repeated assertions that Gettleman shunned analytics - the backbone of nearly all of his arguments. It also shows how little tied in he is on analytics in the NFL.
When some jackass continually refers to being right, when he was clearly wrong - and on a lot of the analytics stuff - I'm going to point it out.
But don't you see the tailspin every one of these threads goes into, and the two of you literally have a paragraphs long rehashing of the same endless points?
Seriously, what is the value you think there is in pointing it out?
Re-read the thread. Who is the one that said "Hey idiot, I know math and facts aren't really your thing" when I wasn't even addressing him.
Heck, my position was the same as Zeke and EA - why is a subjective survey being used by proponents of analytics to come to any sort of conclusion?
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I think the Giants are improving in this area under Judge.
Should ownership be investing in this type of program? Of course. Are they already? We don't know. It takes time to put together that type of expert staff and they are taking a 200 million dollar loss with no fans and all this year so maybe there's a delay.
The Giants started doing that while Coughlin was here. They have been doing a lot of things, but since they have been losing we all see what impression this has left.
And if you try to say otherwise, we know what the retort is - "Well, then why are they still losing??" We'll see if those same individuals praise Cleveland for the work they are doing......
Yes, I think the Browns deserve praise for building what seems to be a quality system. The article mentioned Dorsey ignored them. Good processes don’t necessarily lead to good outcomes.
I’ll admit, reading the article was a bit humbling - the people asked didn’t seem to have a good view on what other teams were doing (the range of rankings for the Giants and the question on player-tracking data were two examples).
I don’t like Siam’s background for his role (a point we disagree on), but the Giants seem to be making more hires in this direction.
Still I think there are certain traits players need and processes that football teams need to be able to do for success. Analytics can certainly be part of the overall effort imo.
Talent first and good coaching is supreme. This issue I take with these type of lists is that they seem to make analytics the driving factor and not talent.
I see way to much supposition, emotional hot takes, bad faith arguments, tons of speculation instead of facts, ego, logic leaps to consider any of the frequent posters on the subject analytically sound and critical thinkers on the site and likely in life patterns.
My post was not intended to apply only to this subject with reference to Fats. I was speaking to his modus operendi in general. As far as bad "hot takes", and bad posts in general, I think we are capable of policing such without Fats' help. And we can certainly do it in a more constructive tone than he brings to the table.
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imo, from now many many examples, the last paragraph of your 240am post applies to a lot of posts and a lot of posters when it comes to this subject.
I see way to much supposition, emotional hot takes, bad faith arguments, tons of speculation instead of facts, ego, logic leaps to consider any of the frequent posters on the subject analytically sound and critical thinkers on the site and likely in life patterns.
My post was not intended to apply only to this subject with reference to Fats. I was speaking to his modus operendi in general. As far as bad "hot takes", and bad posts in general, I think we are capable of policing such without Fats' help. And we can certainly do it in a more constructive tone than he brings to the table.
Also, Fats is the king of bad faith arguments and non sequiturs, on this topic for example, he brings up the "fact" that DG "implemented" a system for analytics witht he panthers without ever defining what that system was. For all we know he had Larry, Moe and Curly mapping out play call tendencies for opposing team. Play calling tendencies is a form of analytics that has been happening in the NFL forever, even if it wasn't always codified and documented. He also doesn't explain how whatever was implemented was applied. Without the details, this so called "fact" is a red herring and provides no insight to how DG actually thinks about and approaches analytics. In his time with the NYG, we have precious little to say that he embraces analytics, and several data points that he doesn't make much use of them. Perhaps the most damning of which has the team making the moves they did to bolster that dept. this off season. Perhaps you should apply your considerable intellect to making suggestions to Fats on how he can become a better poster, because all he is now is a troll.
Well, the subject wasn't how good of a system Gettleman started. NGD only now made it clear he was talking about a quality system instead of just any analytical system.
This is how I see it and have viewed it. In my view NGD moved the goalposts of the argument.
This is exactly what I wrote:
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I'll leave you with this. Buffalo is on that list. Who implemented their analytics system??
My bad. I read misread your comment. I thought you were suggesting Gettleman was responsible for the Bills now being so highly recognized for their analytics work.
I recall that after Gettleman got dismissed from Carolina he did consulting work for Buffalo. And I was thinking you were sort of crediting him for that...
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where did I say Gettleman implemented their system?
This is exactly what I wrote:
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I'll leave you with this. Buffalo is on that list. Who implemented their analytics system??
My bad. I read misread your comment. I thought you were suggesting Gettleman was responsible for the Bills now being so highly recognized for their analytics work.
I recall that after Gettleman got dismissed from Carolina he did consulting work for Buffalo. And I was thinking you were sort of crediting him for that...
You’re getting soft
^ This...
Who cares what he did in Carolina
The onus wasn't on me to define the system used. It wasn't even to argue that it was a quality system. The original argument was that Gettleman shunned analytics and Carolina didn't have a system in place. That was totally false. Hell, why is "fact" in quotations above? He implemented a system - that IS a fact.
Just above, crick recapped the argument well.
If somebody comes on the board and proclaims themselves an expert and then can't even get basic information correct - why should their takes be worth a damn??
And what does this point even mean? Is the inference that an analytics program will pay immediate dividends or the results can somehow be seen tangibly??
That's the thing. If he has, the results certainly have't manifested with the product on the field. Not with personnel decisions, game management, coaching decisions, etc.
Parcells said you are what your record says you are. I think that should extend to our analytics results to date. Just the absolute pits.
Isn’t that tangible?
1) I avoid trolls and those who have no self awareness (a very overlapping Venn diagram)
2) I do take time for posters who seem like they can self learn their way out of cul-de-sacs, add capacity and wisdom ( not IQ or facts but wisdom).
3) My post was addressed to you and not FMIC.
A fundamental analytical in seeing through human dynamics is that humans object and are uncomfortable with behavior in others that they know best because they semi or unconsciously have precisely the same tendencies. Its a puzzle they can't solve so they also return to the scene and people of their struggles with their own flaws over and over again hoping to break through by self will run riot. It never works.
You can find this dynamic masterfully discussed by Homer, Buddha, Confucius, Plato, St Augustine, Marcus Aurelius, Shakespeare and John Stuart Mill.
Armed with more rigor, in the last 60 years, many from the Harvard School of Psychology ( Med School Division) like Kemper, Winograd, Goldman, Thurman and Epstein have explained and exposed this dynamic. And ways to get past it.
In the last 10 years have seen the Rutgers, Pittsburgh School of Medicine and North Carolina University Cognitive Science Departments ( top 5 schools in Cog Science) research and write about it ( Dennett, Flanagan etc).
BBI is an endless display of this phenomenon.
All of the above would advise humility and stillness to self observe.
I will include for completeness two opinions so you and anyone else can understand where i come from on this and then leave so I can spend energy elsewhere:
1A) no one here ( including myself) knows enough about the NYGiants ànd the state and utility of their efforts in analytics or statistics ( and its a rapidly moving target) to be talking authoritatively. The willingness to discuss based on pure emotional speculation, huge assumptions and the barest of coincidence and correlation that is visible is a sign of non analytical non critical thinkers. Flakes based thinking and noise.
2) Forgetting FMIC on style points, I submit that many are actually more upset at their pomposity and foolish emotes being held up to light so clearly. In sum they don't like getting exposed but can't say that so they focus and attack the way it was done.
Better to say nothing and trust others can see interpersonal violations than open our mouths and prove we are equally in a ditch where we started the first shovel into our 99 ditch on the subject.
All the best to, and for you, McL.
The people claiming to be very knowledgeable on the subject have admitted they don't know the depth of what the giants are doing. I've admitted that. I've had two main points all along
1) Gettleman implemented an analytics department in Carolina
2) If we don't know the extent of the Giants analytics effort, why are there definitive statements regarding it?
And the offshoots of this bad faith discussion has been delving into the LinkedIn profile of Tyseer Siam, saying that just because systems are implemented doesn't make them good, and a lot of self-promoting posts on the qualifications on why people are experts in this field and their opinions shouldn't be challenged.
I still don't know why when there's information that comes out that the Giants use analytics that you guys flock here to refute it. It is like you feel like your credibility has been taken away or something.
The bottom line is this whole subject has been argued in bad faith and even the supposed analytics experts on this board still don't know the extent of what the Giants are doing (nor do I).
- Medicine & health
- Resource allocation & value
- Predictive & probabilistic strategy
Teams have been collecting, analyzing, and using data in these arenas for years. So claiming a team has done nothing or that a contemporary GM started it recently are both silly and disingenuous claims.
Now if the argument is who put the names and the roles on the org chart and door, that's different. Do note the activity and achievement paradox again.
Among that list, too little emphasis is put on the last bullet, not enough is put on the first. The second is probably the one where a fan can see the results pretty clearly without inside access.
For example:
- 8th year left tackle at 4/62/35G -- bad value
- 5th year corner at 3/43/32G -- good value
And then the team made some hires this off-season (indicating they weren't just saying things to placate the media/fans).
I don't think anyone's arguing the Giants are the best. I don't think anyone's arguing they're doing absolutely nothing.
Probably the most informative 30 seconds in the last 8 years of Giants football.
1) I avoid trolls and those who have no self awareness (a very overlapping Venn diagram)
2) I do take time for posters who seem like they can self learn their way out of cul-de-sacs, add capacity and wisdom ( not IQ or facts but wisdom).
3) My post was addressed to you and not FMIC.
A fundamental analytical in seeing through human dynamics is that humans object and are uncomfortable with behavior in others that they know best because they semi or unconsciously have precisely the same tendencies. Its a puzzle they can't solve so they also return to the scene and people of their struggles with their own flaws over and over again hoping to break through by self will run riot. It never works.
You can find this dynamic masterfully discussed by Homer, Buddha, Confucius, Plato, St Augustine, Marcus Aurelius, Shakespeare and John Stuart Mill.
Armed with more rigor, in the last 60 years, many from the Harvard School of Psychology ( Med School Division) like Kemper, Winograd, Goldman, Thurman and Epstein have explained and exposed this dynamic. And ways to get past it.
In the last 10 years have seen the Rutgers, Pittsburgh School of Medicine and North Carolina University Cognitive Science Departments ( top 5 schools in Cog Science) research and write about it ( Dennett, Flanagan etc).
BBI is an endless display of this phenomenon.
All of the above would advise humility and stillness to self observe.
I will include for completeness two opinions so you and anyone else can understand where i come from on this and then leave so I can spend energy elsewhere:
1A) no one here ( including myself) knows enough about the NYGiants ànd the state and utility of their efforts in analytics or statistics ( and its a rapidly moving target) to be talking authoritatively. The willingness to discuss based on pure emotional speculation, huge assumptions and the barest of coincidence and correlation that is visible is a sign of non analytical non critical thinkers. Flakes based thinking and noise.
2) Forgetting FMIC on style points, I submit that many are actually more upset at their pomposity and foolish emotes being held up to light so clearly. In sum they don't like getting exposed but can't say that so they focus and attack the way it was done.
Better to say nothing and trust others can see interpersonal violations than open our mouths and prove we are equally in a ditch where we started the first shovel into our 99 ditch on the subject.
All the best to, and for you, McL.
Bill,
I understand what you are saying, however, I would submit that you have not seen me behave the way Fats does towards anybody but Fats himself. I have run into loads of Fats type people in my life.... Unfortunately. I have found the best way to deal with the bully is to punch them back in the nose, preferably using their own tactics against them. I will say this, Fats is one stubborn SOB. Most would have given up by now.
If you want to come up with some psycho babble to describe me, your are off the mark, and should probably take your own advice about sticking to what you know. It would be closer to the mark to say that as a child who suffered through some early illnesses that stunted my growth until I hit puberty, that I was often the victim of jerks like Fats. As a result I have a very low tolerance for it. And, while most just walk away from people like that, most figure it's easier to just avoid, I saw close up just how that behavior enables them. The jerks like Fats are toxic to our whole culture. Just look at the culture here on BBI. How many have copied Fats? So... I speak out against it. And quite frankly, I am also self aware enough to know that I really don't give a shit what people on a message board think of me for doing so. On the other hand, I do wonder about the psychology of those who enable the jerks.
For example, never once have I seen you address Fats on how to be a better poster. Why "Fogetting the style points"? "Better to say nothing"? Just allow it to poison the well? Why? Its all about style. Your very next point is that people don't like to be called out for bad style.
Look, this is a message board. Most people don't craft their posts like they are submitting a paper to be graded in Compositional Writing 421... People just dash things off. Sometimes opinions may come out in a way that can be interpreted as more forceful than intended. I know I am guilty of this. Then you get Fats jumping down your throat about some minutiae buried in what you said, when in all likelihood he is interpreting something the worst possible way, and not at all the that it was intended. This whole stupid argument with NGD stems from NGD saying that DG doesn't embrace analytics or some such thing. Yeah,maybe it was said with some emotional hyperbole. The thing is the concept of analytics is so broad that it can be said that we all use various forms of it practically everyday of our lives without really thinking about it. Figuring out how much you can spend on groceries every week is a form of analytics. So sure, Fats can find an example of something said in a paper years before he was with the Giants about DG "implementing" analytics. Nothing has ever been said about what it was, how it was used, or how successful it was. Maybe they helped him figure out his groceries. Its a pointless point to just make NGD look bad. I suspect NGD was focusing on DG's time with the Giants, and that even if something was done in NC, it wasn't what NGD likes to focus on which is game theory. NGD tried to explain by giving examples where game theory would have led to an alternative decision. But once Fats drags somebody down a rabbit hole, even if that person tries to clarify, Fats won't let it go... I will grant you that NGD has not always handled his side of this argument with grace either, and some of his posts are not carefully worded and can be taken as hyperbolic. But make no mistake, it was Fats that dragged it down into the rabbit hole, and 2 years on, Fats is still not willing to just let it go.
You said "Better to say nothing and trust others can see interpersonal violations". How come this doesn't apply to Fats? Frankly, you have supported Fats at times. Perhaps you should consider why you did that. You lost credibility by doing that.
- Medicine & health
- Resource allocation & value
- Predictive & probabilistic strategy
Teams have been collecting, analyzing, and using data in these arenas for years. So claiming a team has done nothing or that a contemporary GM started it recently are both silly and disingenuous claims.
Now if the argument is who put the names and the roles on the org chart and door, that's different. Do note the activity and achievement paradox again.
Among that list, too little emphasis is put on the last bullet, not enough is put on the first. The second is probably the one where a fan can see the results pretty clearly without inside access.
For example:
- 8th year left tackle at 4/62/35G -- bad value
- 5th year corner at 3/43/32G -- good value
Thank you christian for an excellent post which jives with my comment about NGD's intent. As you said it's a matter of what checks the box for you. Part of the problem is that we don't share a common language to explain the specific boxes we want checked. So no matter how much some folks try to explain what they want to see from analytics, there is always somebody pointing out that the team is using analytics in some other form... And it goes on for years with people talking past each other.
NGD and McL, not referring to you all.
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and bitching by some on this thread.
NGD and McL, not referring to you all.
NP, I didn't think it was.
But its ok to take a logic leap and speculate anyway?
Thats part of my point to you. This discussion with this poster leaves you not at your best
And Its not psycho-babble. Its based on how humans learn, process and reach their ability to be mindful or not. Notice how few people I mentioned are psychologists?
And lastly, you explained perfectly exactly the phenomenon...replaying an old thing that bothers you ( obviously sorry that happened to you and sorry your options for straightening it out at the time were limited (as they are now on a website forum)) over and over again in only slightly different settings that take you from a smart guy on top of things to a stressful (for you)scramble that goes nowhere.
You deserve better. So take care and boundary better.
Or dont. ( shrugs)
Why do you also misrepresent the way NGD posts? You do realize that at one time, he called anyone who disagreed with him "luddites" and "ignorant". Looks like you also are guilty of supporting poor behavior, but since it was directed at me - that's cool, right?
I'm friends with a lot of people on this board. I've been to games with people here. I've been to weddings of people here. I've helped out some that needed it. People have helped me out. I've also unfortunately had more people pass than I would like here and have attended funerals of people in this community. You think people are voluntarily inviting an asshole to things? You should probably lecture them too.
You think my takes are shit and I think your takes are shit. Does it really matter if that perception is delivered politely or crassly? Just because you don't like the way I address you doesn't mean that others should dislike it as well. That's the freedom the board has. If you think I'm a bully, that's your perogative. That does not mean it should be everyone else's.
But its ok to take a logic leap and speculate anyway?
Thats part of my point to you. This discussion with this poster leaves you not at your best
And Its not psycho-babble. Its based on how humans learn, process and reach their ability to be mindful or not. Notice how few people I mentioned are psychologists?
And lastly, you explained perfectly exactly the phenomenon...replaying an old thing that bothers you ( obviously sorry that happened to you and sorry your options for straightening it out at the time were limited (as they are now on a website forum)) over and over again in only slightly different settings that take you from a smart guy on top of things to a stressful (for you)scramble that goes nowhere.
You deserve better. So take care and boundary better.
Or dont. ( shrugs)
You are right, I don't know if you have private conversations with Fats. If you are, its not doing much good.
And of course I explained my own psychology perfectly. I am well aware of it, and yes, aware that there are behaviors that "trigger". I can chose to walk away. I have done so at time with Fats. But I believe he needs to be called out or you are just enabling him. Perhaps instead of whatever you say privately with him and supporting him publicly, you should consider taking a stand publicly and setting an example that his behavior is not tolerated. By not doing so, Fats continues, and other become mini-Fats trying to emulate him because somehow they think he is the cool kid. Perhaps if more people who are aware, stand up and say that it is unacceptable, we can move to a better overall culture and discourse.
Or not...
Shrugs...
Probably the most informative 30 seconds in the last 8 years of Giants football.
I definitely remember Mara saying that.
With all of the uncertainty of the pandemic, and how it has completely upended profession football in so many ways, I would bet a significant amount of money that Mara will essentially say the same thing in January 2021. And use that as a reason to keep Gettleman in his GM chair for at least another year...
Further, I also hear this in Mara's words as well. He likes what Gettleman has done and he doesn't want to risk (or maybe even spend extra money) changing it with someone else from the outside, who would rightfully want to have their own grading system, process, technology approach, etc. So the best way to avoid that is to promote from within. And that clearly means Abrams is the next in line.
So the Gettleman legacy is very likely going to be here for a long, long time...
I do not have issues behaving like Fats in general. I only do it him. As I said, to punch him in the nose with his own tactics. I find it ironic that you call me out for doing it to just him. You don't see me doing it with other posters. But when I *respond* to him in kind, you call me out, and not him... At the very least why not call out both? Or is calling me out supposed to be some subtle way of calling out the behavior in general, and you are addressing me because you actually believe that I am more reasonable. If that's the case, sorry, I didn't pick up on it. The thought only just occurred.
I already said I see emotional frustration and baseless speculation. Then I see over the top attacks on those. For years. Neither is effective and none of it is worthwhile reading.
To me, we collectively took a good subject which has rigor and lessons to be learned ( about the Giants and our own professional lives ) and turned it into a danse macabre.
Asking me to join you in a tactic that isnt working on this subject ( just too much scar tissue for all involved at this point) while claiming I am enabling is the same as asking me to add more wildly waving dance partners in the frying pan.
I already said in my first post the very positive and laudatory reasons I took time to address you. Please take in compliments when they come your way. You are so well armed to see and attack bullies you see them more often then they appear. This is an endless bad circle for several of us...why dont we leave it.
When they asked Senator Aiken for his solution to the quagmire in Vietnam he said " Declare a big victory and get out - as fast as possible"
That applies to a lot of quagmires
When you get a chance please re read from the perspective that these posts were meant to help.
Take care
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We've made a lot of turnover in our scouting area, we've completely changed our grading system in how we grade college players, we're deeper into analytics and technology than we've ever been before, and that process is ongoing. We've completely re-organized areas in our football operations, we've added a staff psychologist on a full-time basis, and we believe it would be a mistake to pull the plug on that after two years, particularly when you consider that Dave spent a good part of the first year fighting for his life.
Probably the most informative 30 seconds in the last 8 years of Giants football.
I definitely remember Mara saying that.
With all of the uncertainty of the pandemic, and how it has completely upended profession football in so many ways, I would bet a significant amount of money that Mara will essentially say the same thing in January 2021. And use that as a reason to keep Gettleman in his GM chair for at least another year...
Further, I also hear this in Mara's words as well. He likes what Gettleman has done and he doesn't want to risk (or maybe even spend extra money) changing it with someone else from the outside, who would rightfully want to have their own grading system, process, technology approach, etc. So the best way to avoid that is to promote from within. And that clearly means Abrams is the next in line.
So the Gettleman legacy is very likely going to be here for a long, long time...
Yeah, I remember this too, and have a similar take away from it.
I already said I see emotional frustration and baseless speculation. Then I see over the top attacks on those. For years. Neither is effective and none of it is worthwhile reading.
To me, we collectively took a good subject which has rigor and lessons to be learned ( about the Giants and our own professional lives ) and turned it into a danse macabre.
Asking me to join you in a tactic that isnt working on this subject ( just too much scar tissue for all involved at this point) while claiming I am enabling is the same as asking me to add more wildly waving dance partners in the frying pan.
I already said in my first post the very positive and laudatory reasons I took time to address you. Please take in compliments when they come your way. You are so well armed to see and attack bullies you see them more often then they appear. This is an endless bad circle for several of us...why dont we leave it.
When they asked Senator Aiken for his solution to the quagmire in Vietnam he said " Declare a big victory and get out - as fast as possible"
That applies to a lot of quagmires
When you get a chance please re read from the perspective that these posts were meant to help.
Take care
See my post just prior... Our posts crossed...
I rarely address him directly anymore.