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| Jones has been one of the bigger surprises two weeks into the 2020 season. The Giants might be 0-2, but their starting quarterback is producing at a top-10 level. After producing a 65.9 PFF grade that ranked 24th in the NFL last year, Jones has earned a 78.7 PFF grade through two games in 2020, placing him 10th among qualifying quarterbacks. His Week 1 PFF grade of 82.1 was the highest of his career, and his Week 2 PFF grade of 68.9 was higher than eight of his 13 games in 2019. Jones' biggest flaw as a rookie was how often he put the ball in harm's way. From forced throws to fumbles, he gave the defense way too many opportunities to make a play. His 5.5% turnover-worthy play rate was the second-worst in the NFL, ahead of only Kyle Allen. Jones has recorded a turnover-worthy play on just 2% of his pass attempts so far this year, the 10th-best rate in the league, and a lot of that is down to an improved decision-making process. |
It’s easy to comprehend if you watch the games. His offensive “weapons” get zero separation. He’s throwing into the tightest windows in the league. Same as last season. He has a bottom 5 offensive line that can’t get anything going in the run game. Week 1 he kept us in that game with his ability to move out of the pocket and create plays. His int at the end of that long drive was a bonehead play. About the only one he’s made so far this season, granted it was a killer. Most other qbs would have been sacked many times over vs Steelers and he also showed an ability to
Hold onto the football. Week 2 he was dealt a crap hand injury to Barkley as well as a few keys drops by EE and slayton on a perfect ball that hit him in the chest.
Jones is a stud. Would love to see him on a team like Cleveland with those skill guys and offensive line.
I don't value all that PFF says but I do know the coaches look at them and value their input. Good to see on Jones progression and hopefully it improves as the season goes on. 1
Week 2
17 pressures on 50 drop backs
Compound that with his crappy WRs and no run game and there you have it
It’s easy to comprehend if you watch the games. His offensive “weapons” get zero separation. He’s throwing into the tightest windows in the league. Same as last season. He has a bottom 5 offensive line that can’t get anything going in the run game. Week 1 he kept us in that game with his ability to move out of the pocket and create plays. His int at the end of that long drive was a bonehead play. About the only one he’s made so far this season, granted it was a killer. Most other qbs would have been sacked many times over vs Steelers and he also showed an ability to
Hold onto the football. Week 2 he was dealt a crap hand injury to Barkley as well as a few keys drops by EE and slayton on a perfect ball that hit him in the chest.
Jones is a stud. Would love to see him on a team like Cleveland with those skill guys and offensive line.
I admire you for trying to deliver some sensible thought to the topic
Please don't say that coaches use these ratings. They don't. In fact, most coaches think of the ratings as bunk. See what the response is when BB is asked about PFF.
I mentioned this before, but there are teams that compared their ratings to PFF's and found that there weren't even directional correlations more than half the time. Those are the people who know the assignments and the intended result.
it's funny how much the majority of sports fans (all sports) prop up "analytics" and then shit on a company that's literally been a pioneer in trying to publicize more modern statistical analysis (albeit a bit too opaquely).
As I think about it though MLB fans don't generally crap on fangraphs and hockey fans don't generally crap on NST, so maybe this is a football specific thing for some reason.
That make a good deal of sense.
And then there are other stats that are head-scratchers.
Subjectively, having watched every Daniel Jones play this season, I would say his overall performance has been "OK", but not Top 10, and certainly nothing special.
That said, with our RBs getting smashed in the grill behind the LOS, there has been an extra burden placed on our second year QB.
He's done OK. Still a lot of growing pains ahead IMO.
To me, an NFL QB is judge on wins and losses (obviously). I feel like wins and loses are actually a pretty good metric for most NFL positions. Maybe a bit more subjective is “making plays”, and especially, making plays in big spots to win games. Think about Jones against the Bears last week, if he makes a play at the end of the game and wins, that’s good. And yeah, I know, maybe the line gives up a pressure or a receiver drops a ball and that’s not Jones fault. I get it. But making one additional completion wouldn’t really change Jones stat line, or PFF grade all that much would it?
Anyway, none of this is to say that Jones is or is not a top ten QB in the NFL. But from my eyes, he’s not yet. I think (was it) Ernie Accorsi said about Eli when scouting him, “when you watch his games you can just tell he’s a winner” or some such thing. And that was true. People still look at Eli’s stats and say he wasn’t that good, except for streak and the Super Bowls, two of ‘em, oh yeah and the playoffs game to get to the two Super Bowls. But those of us who watched Eli’s career know that he was a winner through and through. Same thing can be said of Simms. A winner on Sunday. Two Supes. Stat line? Who cares. Simms won bigs and was a champion.
So, not ready to write off the kid yet but the PFF stuff also doesn’t sway me to think he’s the goods just yet either. DJ8 needs to stack up some wins.
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As in, when engram slipped?
It’s easy to comprehend if you watch the games. His offensive “weapons” get zero separation. He’s throwing into the tightest windows in the league. Same as last season. He has a bottom 5 offensive line that can’t get anything going in the run game. Week 1 he kept us in that game with his ability to move out of the pocket and create plays. His int at the end of that long drive was a bonehead play. About the only one he’s made so far this season, granted it was a killer. Most other qbs would have been sacked many times over vs Steelers and he also showed an ability to
Hold onto the football. Week 2 he was dealt a crap hand injury to Barkley as well as a few keys drops by EE and slayton on a perfect ball that hit him in the chest.
Jones is a stud. Would love to see him on a team like Cleveland with those skill guys and offensive line.
I admire you for trying to deliver some sensible thought to the topic
As do I. I was a bit down on jones but not more just in the middle. This has me feeling a little better. Still, I’m kind of getting tired of looking for things to be hopeful about rather than being blown away by good feels.
Seems pretty clear the giants need another outside wr to compliment slayton. Tate and shep are solid but both get hurt and both are better suited to win over the middle or underneath.
Man a win this week would go a long way. Just get us one.
Jones isn't getting the ball downfield as much this year.
Please don't say that coaches use these ratings. They don't. In fact, most coaches think of the ratings as bunk. See what the response is when BB is asked about PFF.
I mentioned this before, but there are teams that compared their ratings to PFF's and found that there weren't even directional correlations more than half the time. Those are the people who know the assignments and the intended result.
Yep this is right. I saw an interview with the guy who runs PFF (forget his name). He was saying that the only things teams use are the draft/scouting reports because it just saves time, and can be a good starting point. He was lamenting that he's trying to get them to use the weekly ratings but they weren't interested.
Even when he had them he was hamstrung by the OL. Same deal as last year. I am hopeful that what some see as lacking anticipation skills it is more a function of his receivers not getting separation. The WR's are not a very challenging cover even more so without a running game imo.
Daniel Jones has shown a ton of progress already from year 1 to year 2 and its all a part of his natural development. If this team was any good around him it would show up a lot more in the stat line.
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Barkley and Shepard out, he has few weapons aside from Slayton and Engram, both of whom can be easily negated by most defenses. He's also playing behind an inexperienced OL.
Even when he had them he was hamstrung by the OL. Same deal as last year. I am hopeful that what some see as lacking anticipation skills it is more a function of his receivers not getting separation. The WR's are not a very challenging cover even more so without a running game imo.
Agreed.
But thus far, disastrous.
it's funny how much the majority of sports fans (all sports) prop up "analytics" and then shit on a company that's literally been a pioneer in trying to publicize more modern statistical analysis (albeit a bit too opaquely).
As I think about it though MLB fans don't generally crap on fangraphs and hockey fans don't generally crap on NST, so maybe this is a football specific thing for some reason.
There are two aspects to what PFF offers.
1) Quantitative data on snap counts, personnel groupings, etc. Almost every team uses that data
2) Subjective data - like their ratings. Currently no teams subscribe to that.
The ratings are what they push off to the fans to try and gain credibility, but they have little use for the NFL teams themselves.
Go watch his plays on the all 22 in Game Pass. It isn't good. And the numbers are dreadful to boot.
He has to improve dramatically, and quickly... Otherwise we should be looking elsewhere after this year.
He threw a bunch of touchdowns last year and was 2-1 on TDs to interceptions. Has a fumbling problem I’ll grant you. And were two games into a new season.
You’re a smart guy but it’s really hard to take anything you say seriously with that sort of standard.
But thus far, disastrous.
I was thinking more subpar than awful but he certainly hasn’t been good no matter what mitigating factors are at play.
Man was Eli underrated early on in his career. Eli would hang 28 pts on someone but throw an INT and people would critique him and say he will never win shit.
Jones needs to score points and win games. That’s the real measuring stick.
He threw a bunch of touchdowns last year and was 2-1 on TDs to interceptions. Has a fumbling problem I’ll grant you. And were two games into a new season.
You’re a smart guy but it’s really hard to take anything you say seriously with that sort of standard.
Then don't take me seriously. Two years from now when Jones is still struggling with turnovers and being late on throws to the sideline, you can act like you saw it all along.
It's early, but I don't see it with him.
And his next year were essentially the same stats. So this idea that he was lighting it up offensively in his first couple of years simply isn’t true.
He definitely had a much better team around him though as evidenced by their win loss record.
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Total exaggeration. He has not been awful or disastrous. He’s had a lot of good and just enough bad to lose games but he’s been far from awful through two games.
Go watch his plays on the all 22 in Game Pass. It isn't good. And the numbers are dreadful to boot.
He has to improve dramatically, and quickly... Otherwise we should be looking elsewhere after this year.
Yea this is way over the top. He has to improve yes. And if he only improves a little bit or not enough to move the needle the giants MIGHT have a decision to make come April but that’s a long way away and a lot of fluky dominoes would need to fall. Let’s get there first.
Again people, 16 games. 2 games with a new staff. My god.
I just completely disagree with you that you’ve seen enough to determine that he doesn’t have it.
But as you say, we will know in a few years who was right
I just completely disagree with you that you’ve seen enough to determine that he doesn’t have it.
But as you say, we will know in a few years who was right
How's it going, LG? Hope things are well...
I think he has a lot of great qualities. He’s learning another new system, has ok but not great weapons (and lost Barkley), and an offensive line that’s young and gelling. I loved Eli but Jones has one thing over him-he seems to hit receivers in stride when they are open. To me, he’s an accurate passer in tight windows.
I don’t watch the “all-22” so I’m not part of the know it all club but I’ve seen a lot of things I like from him. Don’t feel like he’s the reason we’re 0-2 (although you could argue his turnovers are the direct cause of that, but i don’t think his level of play has been bad at all).
It’s easy to comprehend if you watch the games. His offensive “weapons” get zero separation. He’s throwing into the tightest windows in the league. Same as last season. He has a bottom 5 offensive line that can’t get anything going in the run game. Week 1 he kept us in that game with his ability to move out of the pocket and create plays. His int at the end of that long drive was a bonehead play. About the only one he’s made so far this season, granted it was a killer. Most other qbs would have been sacked many times over vs Steelers and he also showed an ability to
Hold onto the football. Week 2 he was dealt a crap hand injury to Barkley as well as a few keys drops by EE and slayton on a perfect ball that hit him in the chest.
Jones is a stud. Would love to see him on a team like Cleveland with those skill guys and offensive line.
Great post, I was thinking the same thing watching that Browns/Bengals game. They gave that little turd Mayfield the chance to end it in the third and he threw that awful pick. Imagine Jones with freaking Kareem Hunt and Nick Chubb rotating as his RB’s with OBJ and Landry as his starting WR’s. Wow, he would be a top 5 QB in the league.
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As in, when engram slipped?
It’s easy to comprehend if you watch the games. His offensive “weapons” get zero separation. He’s throwing into the tightest windows in the league. Same as last season. He has a bottom 5 offensive line that can’t get anything going in the run game. Week 1 he kept us in that game with his ability to move out of the pocket and create plays. His int at the end of that long drive was a bonehead play. About the only one he’s made so far this season, granted it was a killer. Most other qbs would have been sacked many times over vs Steelers and he also showed an ability to
Hold onto the football. Week 2 he was dealt a crap hand injury to Barkley as well as a few keys drops by EE and slayton on a perfect ball that hit him in the chest.
Jones is a stud. Would love to see him on a team like Cleveland with those skill guys and offensive line.
Great post, I was thinking the same thing watching that Browns/Bengals game. They gave that little turd Mayfield the chance to end it in the third and he threw that awful pick. Imagine Jones with freaking Kareem Hunt and Nick Chubb rotating as his RB’s with OBJ and Landry as his starting WR’s. Wow, he would be a top 5 QB in the league.
Jones has shown nothing that would make me think he has the ability to be a top-5 QB. Seriously? You think he is in a group with Lamar, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers and pick the next best QB. He's not. Let's get real.
See entire field...but needs to do it quicker.
Need to see more on his runs...but has tools to do damage
OL improving....skill player need to separate more....will start to light it up
The rest of his play has been good. Turnovers are game killers - period.
However, I am not condemning him yet. He is still a much better passer than Eli, critically more accurate - supposed "weak arm" or not. He does not have a weak arm, either. Anybody want to argue that Peyton Manning or Drew Brees had stronger arms than Jones. Sy says he is a beat slow getting the ball out of his hand(slow reads). Is that indecision or slow reads?
Yes, if the turnover situation does not improve dramatically, the Giants may need to move on.
The rest of his play has been good. Turnovers are game killers - period.
However, I am not condemning him yet. He is still a much better passer than Eli, critically more accurate - supposed "weak arm" or not. He does not have a weak arm, either. Anybody want to argue that Peyton Manning or Drew Brees had stronger arms than Jones. Sy says he is a beat slow getting the ball out of his hand(slow reads). Is that indecision or slow reads?
Yes, if the turnover situation does not improve dramatically, the Giants may need to move on.
i disagree. There has been a lot of poor decision making. Any QB in the league, almost every backup, can look ok throwing evrything underneath. That's not being a good QB in the NFL.