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For everybody jumping ship after three games,

MOOPS : 9/28/2020 1:57 pm
give it a little time for Joe Judge to right the ship. Three games in, all new coaches and systems, no preseason games, restrictive camp rules, Covid.
I know it looks shitty now, but give the guy a chance.
A year ago nobody knew who Joe Judge was. Let him get his feet wet. He's learned from the best. Let's see if the pupil evolves into the teacher.
Two words. Joe Gibbs. Came to the Redskins in 1981 as a little known 40 YO assistant from the Chargers. Started I think 3 rookies on the OL. Got off to an 0-5 start with the fans calling for his head. Wound up finishing the year 8-8 and was Super Bowl bound year 2.
I know the play so far has overall been poor. A few flashes but for the most part piss poor. When the D mentally checked out yesterday in the second half it was down right embarrassing. Had to fry Judge. I would not want to be in the locker room tomorrow.
Joe Judge looks the part. He talks the talk. He just feels right after the last five or so years. Patience.
I  
SoZKillA : 9/28/2020 2:01 pm : link
been hearing "patience" for YEARS and we still are a dumpster fire because of this GM, other teams rebuild and are good a year later. Hiring Gettleman set us back years and when the next GM comes in he will have to fix the mess DG made.
Okay with Judge  
lax counsel : 9/28/2020 2:05 pm : link
But DG does not have an excuse. The talent is worse now than the team he inherited. It's easy to turn over a team from older to younger players. It's hard to turn over roster to good players. Most of these players aren't producing positive results.

The more alarming issue is that players are regressing. Hernandez looks lost, Jones still turns the ball over, the defensive line gets pushed around. These things are not necessarily coaching or lack of an offseason, its lack of individual progression and overall lack of talent. That falls largely on the shoulders of the individual charged with fixing the talent issue.
It's not three games.....  
rnargi : 9/28/2020 2:06 pm : link
It's 51 games...the team is 12 and 39 since 2016. I think the sample size is now big enough to warrant ship jumping.
Let them jump ship  
louied7535 : 9/28/2020 2:07 pm : link
They aren’t real fans anyways. Although they will be the first ones to say how good they are when they start winning and they will start
RE: It's not three games.....  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/28/2020 2:08 pm : link
In comment 14988382 rnargi said:
Quote:
It's 51 games...the team is 12 and 39 since 2016. I think the sample size is now big enough to warrant ship jumping.


In the immortal words of Michael Ray Richardson, the ship be sinking.
Judge has been dealt a tough hand,  
Section331 : 9/28/2020 2:08 pm : link
a first time HC with very little practice time and no preseason. As I said in the Judge Isn't Getting Fired thread, I think the odds of the team gelling and winning a few games they aren't expected to are significantly greater than them going 0-16 or 1-15.
"3 games."  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/28/2020 2:09 pm : link
What planet are some of you guys on?
RE: Let them jump ship  
SoZKillA : 9/28/2020 2:11 pm : link
In comment 14988384 louied7535 said:
Quote:
They aren’t real fans anyways. Although they will be the first ones to say how good they are when they start winning and they will start


Another dumb comment, so fans can't be frustrated? AND WHERE THE HELL DO YOU SEE WINS???????
COVID hit in New England too.....  
thrunthrublue : 9/28/2020 2:12 pm : link
They lost their starting qb, they always draft next to dead last.....and are currently playing great.....sans excuses.
Jump ship ?  
morrison40 : 9/28/2020 2:16 pm : link
I’m still standing on the dock waiting to see if it can FLOAT ?
I dont think  
Br00klyn : 9/28/2020 2:17 pm : link
fans are angry at Judge and calling for his job(yet). I think its the total frustration of having another season over by October, and having probably the least talented roster in the NFL even though we have had high draft picks for some years now. For the last few years having to witness this team struggle to run the ball and gain more than 2 yards at a clip is infuriating. Gettleman has set this team back YEARS, and there's very little hope on the horizon
.  
arcarsenal : 9/28/2020 2:18 pm : link
It's not 3 games. It is *years* of the same, recurring issues.

Yes, the coach deserves more than 3 games before his fate is determined. The GM has had a lot more than 3 games now. Do you think this team is better than it was when he inherited it? The W/L numbers don't say so.

NFL rebuilds shouldn't require 5+ years. The clock is up on the "patience" crowd.

The Giants keep hiring the wrong people and until John Mara stops being the guy making those decisions, it's not likely to change.
yea, need to clarify who we are supposed to be  
LG in NYC : 9/28/2020 2:23 pm : link
patient with...

No one should be writing off Judge or Jones at this point. IN the same no one should be writing off A Thomas or Darius Slayton.

But Gettleman? yes, the jury is in on that and it isn't good.
Mara's meddling.... yes... also GUILTY.

I and others have been screaming for a complete reboot for years. we have come close but there always seems to be some tether to the "Giants way" that keeps us form really effecting true change.

It seems like an eternity but this is a reset!  
edavisiii : 9/28/2020 2:28 pm : link
Anybody who doesn't think we were starting over, when we hired JJ, needs to take a deeper look. I am frustrated too, we suck, have for years. But look at Shurmur, yes he seems like a decent guy but he set this franchise back. The "adult in the room" could not handle difficult personalities. Snacks, Jackrabbit, OBJ might not have been choir boys but good coaches get guys like that to perform. Dump on Eli Apple all you want but he is a contributor on a playoff team. All these guys got jettisoned.

Coughlin was old school but he was able to get guys with a lot bigger egos (Strahan, Tiki, Toomer, Plax, Osi)to be a positive for the team.

Gettlemen is on the hot seat, and he deserves it, but he probably gets a nod because of the horrible restrictions thrown at teams with new coaches and the SB injury. Losing a #1, 4, and 5 for Baker is a killer. That could have been a starting CB, a Center and a 3rd or 4th WR. Maybe no-one knew Baker was a head case but it was his call, he lives with it and has to take the blame. True, Barkley wasn't running the ball but the 8 man boxes teams used to stop him helped Daniel Jones. Now teams are going to Game plan to stop the passing game. As bad as we are at passing, it is our only hope for the time being.

Even coaching HS football, the hardest, and most time consuming task, is getting the OL to play as a unit. If this happens, you will see some progress. We got better at the end of Shurmur's 1st year because the OL played better.. Things will improve....I hope!
For every Joe Gibbs  
HomerJones45 : 9/28/2020 2:44 pm : link
there are a half dozen who started 0-3, finished 2 or 3 or 4 wins and were out of a job the middle of their second season. Pointing to outliers and seeing our guys is magical thinking.

Every team had no preseason and had Covid, other teams have new systems and didn't lose a beat. None is worse at putting points on the board than ours. In an era where shootouts are common, we are looking to break the magical 17 point mark.

RE: It's not three games.....  
Jints in Carolina : 9/28/2020 2:47 pm : link
In comment 14988382 rnargi said:
Quote:
It's 51 games...the team is 12 and 39 since 2016. I think the sample size is now big enough to warrant ship jumping.


THIS
RE: .  
Phil S : 9/28/2020 2:51 pm : link
In comment 14988425 arcarsenal said:
[quote] It's not 3 games. It is *years* of the same, recurring issues.

Yes, the coach deserves more than 3 games before his fate is determined. The GM has had a lot more than 3 games now. Do you think this team is better than it was when he inherited it? The W/L numbers don't say so.

NFL rebuilds shouldn't require 5+ years. The clock is up on the "patience" crowd.

This is why I never hope for losses to improve draft position. Teams that are losing keep losing.

not jumping ship at all  
ryanmkeane : 9/28/2020 2:53 pm : link
i've seen enough of Jones to know that with a bit more time and the right roster, he's going to take off. I've been a supporter of DG but time is running out on him. If the young guys aren't showing great improvement through the bulk of the year, he could be gone and deservedly so.

We just lost to the niners back ups by 30, with the roster that DG has put together.
...  
christian : 9/28/2020 2:56 pm : link
Everyone understands this staff, the young players, and the continuity will develop and the deficit because of the unorthodox offseason.

The most troubling aspects are the things you'd expect to be lean on are in trouble.

- Cam Fleming and Kevin Zeitler look absolutely toast
- There is no depth at WR, Tate looks his age, and Shepard cannot stay healthy
- The depth and overall group at middle linebacker next to Martinez is alarming
- The tight end group looks outclassed in the blocking game
- The defensive line, while productive, doesn't look a top tier unit

Those are the areas where you do or should have vets to tread water right now.
Honestly, is anyone really out for Judge's blood?  
Greg from LI : 9/28/2020 2:57 pm : link
A few cranks might be writing him off, but it's a fringe opinion.

Gettleman absolutely has to go.
RE: RE: It's not three games.....  
Rory : 9/28/2020 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14988486 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
In comment 14988382 rnargi said:


Quote:


It's 51 games...the team is 12 and 39 since 2016. I think the sample size is now big enough to warrant ship jumping.



THIS


No not "this", different systems, different coaches, different philosophies and different players need time to adjust and gel …and that means seasons not games

No preseason, limited practices, ask yourself wtf were "your" expectations to start the year?

You people keep wanting to re-set, re-build, re-do with no ability to be patient....well here is the results of just that.

So we want to fire the GM after 3 seasons now? Fuck we are close to becoming the Browns.

RE: not jumping ship at all  
Br00klyn : 9/28/2020 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14988500 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I've been a supporter of DG but time is running out on him.


Time is running out? he's responsible for assembling the worst roster in the NFL. Time's up. Time has been up on this moron for some time now
The GM has a worst roster and OL than what he started out with  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/28/2020 3:00 pm : link
3 seasons ago. Damn fucking right we want him gone. Use your fucking head.
What does jumping ship mean?  
.McL. : 9/28/2020 3:02 pm : link
I am still a Giants fan.
I haven't given up on Judge, the coaching staff in general, Jones, Slayton, Thomas, Lawrence, McKinney, Martinez and Bradbury

Does giving up on this FO constitute jumping ship? If that's the case, I jumped that ship a year ago.
RE: RE: RE: It's not three games.....  
Greg from LI : 9/28/2020 3:05 pm : link
In comment 14988508 Rory said:
Quote:
So we want to fire the GM after 3 seasons now? Fuck we are close to becoming the Browns.


Close to the Browns??? Pal, they're WORSE than the Browns. Are you serious? Dave Gettleman has been the GM for three years now - is this team any better than the team he inherited? Nope. By his own stated goals, he's a complete failure. The offensive line is pure garbage and I don't care how many games you give them to "gel" (I see that's the new buzzword for the Gettleman apologists) - a line that starts Nick Gates at center and Cam Fleming at RT will always be below average. The secondary is a flaming dumpster fire aside from Bradberry. There's still no pass rush. The WRs are the weakest crew in the league.

But hey, they have a lot of widebody, run-stuffing DTs, so Mr. Magoo can hang his hat on that, at least!
Turn arounds don’t time a lot of time in The NFL  
Giantimistic : 9/28/2020 3:14 pm : link
When you choose the right coach. I don’t think macadoo or Shurmur was ever going to be winning coaches. Also, I think it was clear that Gettleman pursued players with a lot of coaches input.

I like what Judge’s plan is and I believe it will work but his turnaround will take some time.

The quickest turn arounds are when there is a good but underperforming roster. That is not what we have.

I do like Jones pick and I still like the Barkley pick because I enjoyed watching him. I can not argue that Gettleman has done a good job. Hard to win that argument and maybe he will retire, but I am all in on Judge and what he is trying to do. It is hard to tell anyone to be patient after the past many years, but that is just what we need to do with Judge.
We’ve started from scratch three times  
exiled : 9/28/2020 3:18 pm : link
in 5 years with a new regime and constant change of players. So you gotta count this as year one and set your expectations accordingly.

I like the coach and think he’ll pull the team forward.
RE: We’ve started from scratch three times  
Rory : 9/28/2020 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14988555 exiled said:
Quote:
in 5 years with a new regime and constant change of players. So you gotta count this as year one and set your expectations accordingly.

I like the coach and think he’ll pull the team forward.


**THIS**
RE: We’ve started from scratch three times  
lax counsel : 9/28/2020 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14988555 exiled said:
Quote:
in 5 years with a new regime and constant change of players. So you gotta count this as year one and set your expectations accordingly.

I like the coach and think he’ll pull the team forward.


I am not sure anyone has a legitimate concern over the coaching staff. The bigger concern is DG and the front office. Can anyone think of a position now that is better than the day DG took over? He's had 3 offseasons, that's a decent amount of time in the NFL. The QB is in regression, which is alarming in and of itself. Maybe the line is as terrible as it was 3 years ago. His claim to fame is a running back who isn't on the field (and even if he was, he selected a running back believing the 2018 team could compete).

So, DG has had time to improve things. They don't look good right now.
RE: RE: It's not three games.....  
Percy : 9/28/2020 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14988386 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 14988382 rnargi said:


Quote:


It's 51 games...the team is 12 and 39 since 2016. I think the sample size is now big enough to warrant ship jumping.



In the immortal words of Michael Ray Richardson, the ship be sinking.

It do.
RE: Honestly, is anyone really out for Judge's blood?  
mfsd : 9/28/2020 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14988507 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
A few cranks might be writing him off, but it's a fringe opinion.

Gettleman absolutely has to go.


Bingo. Nobody's jumping ship on Judge.

We all know the Giants kept DG bc they're not an ownership group that can get comfortable turning the keys of the whole operation over to a new regime without one of their guys in place for continuity. And we've already beaten that horse to death, that's a separate discussion from Judge
RE: It seems like an eternity but this is a reset!  
BlueVinnie : 9/28/2020 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14988445 edavisiii said:
Quote:
Anybody who doesn't think we were starting over, when we hired JJ, needs to take a deeper look.


Your point is exactly what some of us are upset about. It's basically admitting that that the last two years have been wasted. If that is in fact true, then we shouldn't be "resetting" with the same GM who squandered the last two seasons. Add in the fact, that the overmatched scout posing as a GM already set himself up to avoid the blame with his "it all depends on how fast the puppies develop" line.

This is the third year of his tenure, anything short of a .500 season should seal DG's fate.
LOL - We're not alone  
stoneman : 9/28/2020 4:27 pm : link
0-3 Atl, Minn, Tex, NYJ, Den,
1-2 NO, Det, LAC, Car, Cinn, Jax, Mia and the NFC East Dal/Phi/Was

Its 3 games against quality opponents - Pit 3-0, Chi 3-0, SF 2-1
I'm not jumping ship.  
David B. : 9/28/2020 4:29 pm : link
I'll always be a Giants fan.

But I don't have to WATCH them until times are better. There are better ways to spend a fall Sunday. Football is supposed to be entertainment. Right now, it just isn't -- unless you're a masochist. I'll tape the games, and if they win, I'll watch. If they keep losing, I don't see the point. If there's something to SEE -- like Jones having a great game in a loss, I'll watch the highlights.

Sadly, being a Giants fan in this era is all about the OFFSEASON. And the Draft is our Superbowl.
RE: RE: RE: It's not three games.....  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/28/2020 4:33 pm : link
In comment 14988508 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 14988486 Jints in Carolina said:


Quote:


In comment 14988382 rnargi said:


Quote:


It's 51 games...the team is 12 and 39 since 2016. I think the sample size is now big enough to warrant ship jumping.



THIS



No not "this", different systems, different coaches, different philosophies and different players need time to adjust and gel …and that means seasons not games

No preseason, limited practices, ask yourself wtf were "your" expectations to start the year?

You people keep wanting to re-set, re-build, re-do with no ability to be patient....well here is the results of just that.

So we want to fire the GM after 3 seasons now? Fuck we are close to becoming the Browns.

No, it does not mean seasons. Teams do not get seasons to acclimate to a new coach and new system. It's not like these guys have never played football before - they just look like they haven't.

NFL players learn new systems regularly, they learn new terminology sometimes on a week-to-week basis. The amount of patience that some fans ask each other to have sometimes really is beyond what competent NFL players should require in order to play cohesively.

Did the lack of a proper offseason set this team back? Yes, absolutely. Are they a mediocre roster on top of those disadvantages? Also yes, absolutely.

The talent level simply isn't where it needs to be, despite the massive turnover. How many losses over a three season span is enough to realize that no matter how bad of a roster he inherited, DG has not improved it - is 35 losses over three years enough? How about 40? The Browns aren't bad because they kept firing GMs; they kept firing GMs because they were bad.

Stability is not the cause of success in the NFL to anywhere near the extent to which stability is the result of success. Simply keeping a mediocre GM for the sake of stability doesn't get you anywhere closer to a championship than getting rid of a GM because he's mediocre does.

Newsflash - we're already the Browns. Or worse.
RE: Judge has been dealt a tough hand,  
GMen72 : 9/28/2020 4:34 pm : link
In comment 14988387 Section331 said:
Quote:
a first time HC with very little practice time and no preseason. As I said in the Judge Isn't Getting Fired thread, I think the odds of the team gelling and winning a few games they aren't expected to are significantly greater than them going 0-16 or 1-15.


What good does 3 wins do? We beat two teams trying to lose last year and everone celebrated...and lost out on Chase Young to a team we beat. Lose them all, fire everyone, and rebuild around Lawrence. Look at DG's history of hiring coaches...Judge is no different, just better in press conferences. This team is going nowhere, stop hoping for a "few" wins. Blow it up!
There will be a time to evaluate  
eugibs : 9/28/2020 4:38 pm : link
the head coach's job performance, though now is obviously not that time. Quite frankly, the issue at this point is not even the general manager. Gettleman is terrible at his job and a laughing stock. It is not up for debate anymore. The issue is John Mara who, as this situation has continued to deteriorate, has seemingly become ever more insular, defensive, and stubborn. If he was the leader and face of a public company, he would already have been removed. Unfortunately, professional sports franchises are monarchies, so our only hope is that he realizes for himself how profoundly and completely he has failed in his role and dramatically changes how the organization does business. I wouldn't bet on that happening though.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It's not three games.....  
BlueVinnie : 9/28/2020 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14988669 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:


Stability is not the cause of success in the NFL to anywhere near the extent to which stability is the result of success. Simply keeping a mediocre GM for the sake of stability doesn't get you anywhere closer to a championship than getting rid of a GM because he's mediocre does.


Well said.
I'm not saying anything negative about Judge yet  
PatersonPlank : 9/28/2020 4:42 pm : link
However I am also not going to praise him yet either for a "good media speech", or an attitude he projects. His job will be the results on the field, that's his grade. Lots of coaches talk big and sick. Look no farther than his Patriots compare McDaniel. Its easy to talk big before producing a result. I refuse to get attached either way, I'm in show me mode now after that SF debacle (for all players too).
I jumped ship back in April  
ghost718 : 9/28/2020 5:00 pm : link
was doing the backstroke in the Atlantic while the Giants were taking 4 Linebackers-4-Rent
I was saying the same thing  
jerseyjokes : 9/28/2020 5:03 pm : link
After two games we had excuses. This week 3 performance though was so bad it has to fall on someone. He’ll if SF was healthy fine, but they had a 1/4 of the starters were scrubs. That performance just wasn’t ok.
Unreal  
PaulN : 9/28/2020 5:15 pm : link
At best you can say the Jones and Barkley picks may become good picks, but right now those picks were bad, how can you defend it? The team is built around them, how can you defend them? It took LT 1 game to make an impact, there were ups and downs, but there are no ups with these guys, they are not contributing to wins, unless that happens it is a failure.
I never thought I’d say it  
Danny Kanell : 9/28/2020 5:23 pm : link
But I have jumped ship. I have missed maybe 3 games in 35 years.

I can’t watch them anymore. The second the game starts, you know they’re going to lose. And they always lose.

Honestly, this team is going to be gutted again (rightfully so). There’s no point in even watching just for development purposes.

So call me a fair weather fan all you want. Couldn’t care less. I can’t do it to myself anymore. I’m going pumpkin picking and apple picking with the kids Sunday. I’m not wasting anymore nice Sundays aggravating myself.
I'm not jumping ship on Judge  
Matt M. : 9/28/2020 5:26 pm : link
I am, however, jumping ship on any form of expectations for this season. This is a BAD team right now. They have lack of talent and depth with no expectation of overcoming the loss of Barkley and Shepard to a lesser degree.
RE: Let them jump ship  
BestFeature : 9/28/2020 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14988384 louied7535 said:
Quote:
They aren’t real fans anyways. Although they will be the first ones to say how good they are when they start winning and they will start


If being a real fan is having a bad case Stockholm Syndrome and not holding the team accountable, we should all aspire to not be real fans.
RE: Okay with Judge  
BMac : 9/28/2020 6:20 pm : link
In comment 14988378 lax counsel said:
Quote:
But DG does not have an excuse. The talent is worse now than the team he inherited.


This is as untrue a statement as I've seen on here recently.
Maybe there was a time when it took seasons  
NoGainDayne : 9/28/2020 6:30 pm : link
to acclimate but one of the things that has advanced that IMO is technology.

Just because the Giants want to the old ways as much as possible and make nepotism a requirement for working with them doesn't mean they deserve a handicap for that. If you want to enter your classic car into a race against those with cutting edge engineering, you don't get to use that as an excuse AFTER you lose the race. You keep winning races kudos to you.

GD's 4:43 on this thread was great.
I am jumping ship and no longer  
LBH15 : 9/28/2020 6:35 pm : link
supporting Dave Gettleman as GM.
RE: I never thought I’d say it  
arcarsenal : 9/28/2020 6:50 pm : link
In comment 14988749 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
But I have jumped ship. I have missed maybe 3 games in 35 years.

I can’t watch them anymore. The second the game starts, you know they’re going to lose. And they always lose.

Honestly, this team is going to be gutted again (rightfully so). There’s no point in even watching just for development purposes.

So call me a fair weather fan all you want. Couldn’t care less. I can’t do it to myself anymore. I’m going pumpkin picking and apple picking with the kids Sunday. I’m not wasting anymore nice Sundays aggravating myself.


You gotta do you, man.

The Giants really aren't worth any of our time right now. I still watch the games every week, but in 2017, we got so bad that I actually would start games and not be able to finish them. By like.. halftime, I would just be so disgusted and checked out that I'd change the channel.

I can see that happening again this year much sooner than later.

Obviously we sucked in 2018 and 2019, too - but in 2018, Barkley at least made me feel like the Giants were worth watching and then last year I obviously wanted to see how Jones would play and develop. So, I stuck most of those out.

But it's a tough ask to force any fan to sit through another miserable year like this.

Perhaps I'm more sympathetic because of me literally jumping ship on the Mets to the point where I stopped rooting for them entirely.. lol. But, no matter how much shit I've gotten for that and will get, it was just a personal decision that I stand by and have no intention of going back on.

No one should watch sports or enjoy sports through any lens other than their own. I don't blame anyone who has just had enough of the Giants and needs a break. The losing an terrible football is exhausting. It's just a hopeless football team right now.

The Giants are different for me and they're not a team I'll ever stop rooting for, but yeah - I mean seasons like this, there's just a certain point where you can only take so much. It's brutal. The team is just bad. Really bad.
You guys realize Judge  
joeinpa : 9/28/2020 7:26 pm : link
Is 0-3. Not 12-40. Right?

You don’t have to have patience, but the alternative is to be miserable, which many obviously are.

I already know, I m not going to stop watching the games, or being a fan.

So I m looking for improvement, hopefully some wins by year s end, but more importantly that they are on the right track.

Some have indicated they are done caring or watching, probably a good choice for them.

Hopefully you ll come back when things are better.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/28/2020 7:43 pm : link
We aren't Joe Judge fans, Joe - we're Giants fans.

And the 12-40 belongs to the Giants.

Of course the coach is only 0-3 and this isn't his fault. I actually like the guy. I don't think this is his fault at all. It has been and is a talent issue.

A lot of us are tired of unwatchable, terrible football. The Giants are susceptible to needing to rebuild just like anyone else in this league, but given the resources this org has and that they spend money every year, this is inexcusable.

The Giants should not be a doormat for this long. This is shit you expect from the Jets.
The thing about Judge and I said numerous time  
NoGainDayne : 9/28/2020 7:47 pm : link
and still am hopeful about him is he doesn't get a pass for his team quitting like they did against a highly undermanned opponent.

We had all the moral victory people talking about how hard the team was playing again and this is the most embarrassing loss I can even remember from the Giants.

You can be hopeful that Judge is the solution and excited about his approach and say that was an incredibly disappointing coaching performance in the same breath.
Add me  
Ike#88 : 9/28/2020 8:01 pm : link
as a longtime fan who can not watch them lose on good weather days. When 4:15 rolled around and I had sat inside the last few years and wind up feeling just terrible frankly with the state of this team it is not good for my mental health. The lack of any signs of future building blocks making progress and being able to see a stronger team in the near future wears on the fans. We have no one on defense teams have to worry about and game plan for. With all our recent high draft picks our offense is a pop gun. If fans are back for next season the Giants should drastically lower seat prices.
RE: The thing about Judge and I said numerous time  
Mike from SI : 9/28/2020 8:03 pm : link
In comment 14988893 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
and still am hopeful about him is he doesn't get a pass for his team quitting like they did against a highly undermanned opponent.

We had all the moral victory people talking about how hard the team was playing again and this is the most embarrassing loss I can even remember from the Giants.

You can be hopeful that Judge is the solution and excited about his approach and say that was an incredibly disappointing coaching performance in the same breath.


I'm sure if we eventually win a handful of games this year the moral victory folks will be back.
RE: .  
joeinpa : 9/28/2020 8:29 pm : link
In comment 14988890 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
We aren't Joe Judge fans, Joe - we're Giants fans.

And the 12-40 belongs to the Giants.

Of course the coach is only 0-3 and this isn't his fault. I actually like the guy. I don't think this is his fault at all. It has been and is a talent issue.

A lot of us are tired of unwatchable, terrible football. The Giants are susceptible to needing to rebuild just like anyone else in this league, but given the resources this org has and that they spend money every year, this is inexcusable.

The Giants should not be a doormat for this long. This is shit you expect from the Jets.


I get it. Didn’t say I m not disgusted, but changes were made that I wanted so I m going to hang in there.

Guess I m drawing a line of demarcation separating 2012 - 2019 and this season
One winning season in the past seven years  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 9/28/2020 8:37 pm : link
For a record of 42-70. 42-73 if you count this season. I'm not sure how much patience we're supposed to have here.

It's been clear to me for a while that there's no coherent plan from anyone in a leadership position in this franchise.

All we've got now is hope and hope, as they say, is not a plan.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 9/28/2020 8:44 pm : link
In comment 14988946 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 14988890 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


We aren't Joe Judge fans, Joe - we're Giants fans.

And the 12-40 belongs to the Giants.

Of course the coach is only 0-3 and this isn't his fault. I actually like the guy. I don't think this is his fault at all. It has been and is a talent issue.

A lot of us are tired of unwatchable, terrible football. The Giants are susceptible to needing to rebuild just like anyone else in this league, but given the resources this org has and that they spend money every year, this is inexcusable.

The Giants should not be a doormat for this long. This is shit you expect from the Jets.



I get it. Didn’t say I m not disgusted, but changes were made that I wanted so I m going to hang in there.

Guess I m drawing a line of demarcation separating 2012 - 2019 and this season


I hear you. Again it's tough because we always have GM's and coaches on different, staggered schedules.

So, Joe Judge deserves more time - but does Gettleman? I'd argue he doesn't.

And if the FO decides they agree, then we have the whole "do you clean house again, do you force Judge on the new GM, do you look for a GM who wants Judge to stay, etc..."

All of it is really less than ideal.

I'd love to see them really turn things around and play significantly better football as this season goes on - I just think the talent issue is too great to overcome the inexperience and mistakes. We're a team that just cannot afford to spot the opponent anything. It's going to take near mistake-free games to get into the W column with this group and they're making a LOT of mistakes early on.
I think the vast majority are giving Judge a pass.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/28/2020 8:50 pm : link
& the vast majority think DG should be fired.

That's my view too.
RE: RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 9/28/2020 8:52 pm : link
In comment 14988978 arcarsenal said:
Quote:

And if the FO decides they agree, then we have the whole "do you clean house again, do you force Judge on the new GM, do you look for a GM who wants Judge to stay, etc..."



Exactly. Which is why Abrams makes the most sense - unfortunately.

It creates the least amount of disruption. Again, unfortunately.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
NoGainDayne : 9/28/2020 9:09 pm : link
In comment 14988987 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14988978 arcarsenal said:


Quote:



And if the FO decides they agree, then we have the whole "do you clean house again, do you force Judge on the new GM, do you look for a GM who wants Judge to stay, etc..."





Exactly. Which is why Abrams makes the most sense - unfortunately.

It creates the least amount of disruption. Again, unfortunately.


But I don't get that excuse. And that shouldn't fly with fans. IMO they very much did it this way so they could try to set up the argument of Abrams being the guy was the best way forward to keep continuity with Judge.

Can't reward that kind of behavior by fans to back us into a corner for more cronyism with cronyism.
personally I think  
Rory : 9/29/2020 12:16 am : link
some of you need to re-evaluate if your healthy enough humans to watch football. Some of the comments I read on here during a losing game are kind of unsettling

I get it you want to find someone to blame for your sense of hurting but Jesus Christ man there's other things in life to help you live more balanced.

I left and went Mountain biking after the 3rd qtr, was an awesome day.
RE: personally I think  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/29/2020 12:28 am : link
In comment 14989265 Rory said:
Quote:
some of you need to re-evaluate if your healthy enough humans to watch football. Some of the comments I read on here during a losing game are kind of unsettling

I get it you want to find someone to blame for your sense of hurting but Jesus Christ man there's other things in life to help you live more balanced.

I left and went Mountain biking after the 3rd qtr, was an awesome day.


Pretty much everyone else here thinks the same exact thing of you. I mean, just look at what you posted in this trash-ass post you just made:

Quote:
Some of the comments I read on here during a losing game are kind of unsettling


"Losing game." As if it's just 'one game' and not 7-8 years worth of mostly trash games. Worst team in football over the past 3 years. 12-44 over their past 56 games or some shit. Are you mentally and emotionally stable? Do you have an IQ over 15? Because if you're a Giants fan and think other Giants fans are only frustrated about this past week's game, and not the past several seasons, then you have severe issues that need to be checked out or you simply don't pay attention. The days of posters calling out other posters for shitting on this team are long gone now. Deal with the fact, genius.
RE: RE: personally I think  
Rory : 9/29/2020 12:35 am : link
In comment 14989267 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14989265 Rory said:


Quote:


some of you need to re-evaluate if your healthy enough humans to watch football. Some of the comments I read on here during a losing game are kind of unsettling

I get it you want to find someone to blame for your sense of hurting but Jesus Christ man there's other things in life to help you live more balanced.

I left and went Mountain biking after the 3rd qtr, was an awesome day.



Pretty much everyone else here thinks the same exact thing of you. I mean, just look at what you posted in this trash-ass post you just made:



Quote:


Some of the comments I read on here during a losing game are kind of unsettling



"Losing game." As if it's just 'one game' and not 7-8 years worth of mostly trash games. Worst team in football over the past 3 years. 12-44 over their past 56 games or some shit. Are you mentally and emotionally stable? Do you have an IQ over 15? Because if you're a Giants fan and think other Giants fans are only frustrated about this past week's game, and not the past several seasons, then you have severe issues that need to be checked out or you simply don't pay attention. The days of posters calling out other posters for shitting on this team are long gone now. Deal with the fact, genius.


lol, so tuff tho
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 9/29/2020 2:50 am : link
1) It is fair to not view these 3 games completely in a bubble. This is the 4th HC in the last 7 or so years of futility. Virtually every week of each of the last several seasons has yielded different ways to lose, different levels of shitty play, etc. It is sadly becoming the same old thing and the Giants have sadly become a joke of a franchise.

2) That said, Judge seems like the kind of coach who has the potential to turn things around. But, even with a shitty roster, his rope can't be that long, because we can't afford much more futility. To me, that means this year may be a wash, but next year better yield results.

3) I am quickly becoming a fan of firing Gettleman. Do I think he is terrible? No. I think his last 2 drafts were pretty good. But, he also leaves a lot to be desired in his FA dealings and he has made some bad trades I am absolutely not a fan of. For me, the worst part is no real plan. I do not have a problem with him coming in and thinking he could re-load with Manning. I still believe Manning had some good play left in him. Where I think he made a mistake is that he did nothing to improve the team with Manning. They continued to have one of the worst OLs I've ever seen. His solution? Draft Barkley with virtually the same historically bad OL. So, now you wasted what little Eli had in the tank and potentially wasted the talent of Barkley. That wasn't much of a plan.

If Gettleman survives after this season, there is no way next year should be anything other than a make or break year for him. To me, that means playoffs or gone. For Judge the leash should be almost as short, but a solid showing short of the playoffs should buy him 1 more season after next.

4) No single area was really upgraded in the last few years. They are possibly slightly more talented all around, but still have an embarrassing lack of depth at every position. This team still, unfortunately, seems unable to take a step forward in any capacity.

5) For me, a lot is riding on 2 players. We have 2 potential long term solutions on the OL in Lemieux and Peart. They happen to be behind 2 players who are playing horribly. With another season basically in the tank again, I say play the 2 rookies. They really can't play any worse and we get to evaluate them and get their growing pains out of the way now. It tells us what is needed for next year. Best case scenario shows us to anchors for the line leaving OC and RG to address moving forward. Without playing them, we still have questions at every position other than LT.

6) I truly can't see how anyone is legitimately optimistic at this point. I love the Giants. I root for the Giants to win every week. I go into every season believing they got better and they can compete (even each of the last few years). I still believe Judge has the potential to lead this team pout of the darkness, as stated above. But, I have seen absolutely NOTHING to beieve that will happen this year.

Can anyone honestly look at this team after these 3 games and see anything other than a shitty team that has shown no signs of being any better than any of the shitty teams we've seen for the last few years? The only good season we have to speak of over the last several was 2015, which turned out to be an anomaly as the result of a crazy FA spree on the D. It was short lived because Reese and McAdoo and the players rested on their laurels, expecting repeat results. They did nothing to improve after that season, and the record shows it.
Team has improved  
bc4life : 9/29/2020 8:01 am : link
I have realistic options and am looking to see growth and development as season wears on.

Defense played fairly well. But secondary missing 3 starters was not helpful. McKinney, Baker, & Beal being out is ignored, while people point out how many starters didn't play for 49ers.

I'm pissed but hopeful. Every time they bring in a new HC, it starts the process all over again.
I am a Nick Gates fan  
bc4life : 9/29/2020 8:03 am : link
but wonder if they are asking too much. If there is a move on OLine - that may be it. Center is OLine QB - he is learning the position on the fly.
RE: personally I think  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/29/2020 8:27 am : link
In comment 14989265 Rory said:
Quote:
some of you need to re-evaluate if your healthy enough humans to watch football. Some of the comments I read on here during a losing game are kind of unsettling

I get it you want to find someone to blame for your sense of hurting but Jesus Christ man there's other things in life to help you live more balanced.

I left and went Mountain biking after the 3rd qtr, was an awesome day.

Personally I think a grown adult should know the difference between you're and your before questioning anyone's health.

I think the board might be better off if you rededicated yourself more often to mountain biking instead of posting.
RE: It's not three games.....  
Dr. D : 9/29/2020 9:21 am : link
In comment 14988382 rnargi said:
Quote:
It's 51 games...the team is 12 and 39 since 2016. I think the sample size is now big enough to warrant ship jumping.

To MOOPS point, 2016 - 2019 are irrelevant (2012-2016 even more so). It's a new era. As Eric wrote in a recent preview: we're starting over!

Using MOOPS example of Gibbs starting his head coaching career in '81, it would be like complaining about 1978-'80 and lumping Gibbs in with that futility.
We are going to learn a lot...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/29/2020 9:35 am : link
Adversity is a great, albeit painful teacher.

Ever wonder how the greatest teams become so great? They don't read the headlines. They don't get caught up in their record or the standings. They have a system, they focus on their system of improvements continually.

These teams don't let themselves get up or down.

We know what kind of team Coach Judge is trying to create. His words have so far been echoed by the players.

The road isn't going to be easy this year. We will see how the team responds.

Don't feel bad for being upset on Sunday. That performance really hurt.

But don't get too caught up in it either. Every week there are teams that look so much better or worse than the week before. We had a bad week - but there is time to turn that around.

This team has only one mission right now - beating the Rams. Let's see how they do.
RE: We are going to learn a lot...  
crick n NC : 9/29/2020 9:37 am : link
In comment 14989500 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
Adversity is a great, albeit painful teacher.

Ever wonder how the greatest teams become so great? They don't read the headlines. They don't get caught up in their record or the standings. They have a system, they focus on their system of improvements continually.

These teams don't let themselves get up or down.

We know what kind of team Coach Judge is trying to create. His words have so far been echoed by the players.

The road isn't going to be easy this year. We will see how the team responds.

Don't feel bad for being upset on Sunday. That performance really hurt.

But don't get too caught up in it either. Every week there are teams that look so much better or worse than the week before. We had a bad week - but there is time to turn that around.

This team has only one mission right now - beating the Rams. Let's see how they do.


💯
Entertaining thread  
arniefez : 9/29/2020 10:03 am : link
A lot of hope died Sunday.

I had hope that Joe Judge was going to be such a good HC that he would immediately make a difference. Bill Parcells couldn't. Jimmy Johnson couldn't. But this is a different era in the NFL and I hoped Joe Judge could. That's dead. I think Joe Judge just found out that the hard job he thought he had in front of him when he took the job is actually much harder than he thought. Half his roster couldn't make more than 1 or 2 other teams rosters. Half his starters wouldn't be backups on good teams.

I hoped Daniel Jones was going to be a worthy successor to Eli Manning. That hope is dying. He's regressed. Teams have taken away what he did well as a rookie. No more man coverage. Jones struggles against zone defenses. The whole league knows now. He doesn't see the field well. He doesn't read defenses well so he holds the ball and is a never ending turnover machine. If he stays healthy by the time this year is over his career record will be probably be about 6-22.

So after 3 disastrous seasons Gettleman will be "retired". It will be a mercy retirement for him and Giant fans. But it presents more problems than it solves. The Giants are going to interview for a new GM. So far so good. But the new GM will be told he has to keep the HC, the 6-22 QB and one of the owners is the SRVP of Player Personnel and his nephew is his top lieutenant. What in demand NFL executive is taking that job?
RE: personally I think  
arcarsenal : 9/29/2020 11:56 am : link
In comment 14989265 Rory said:
Quote:
some of you need to re-evaluate if your healthy enough humans to watch football. Some of the comments I read on here during a losing game are kind of unsettling

I get it you want to find someone to blame for your sense of hurting but Jesus Christ man there's other things in life to help you live more balanced.

I left and went Mountain biking after the 3rd qtr, was an awesome day.


Deep thoughts, brah.
Nothing is more annoying..  
Sean : 9/29/2020 12:23 pm : link
than fans preaching about the importance of life and how sports don’t mean anything in the “big picture” of things.

No shit. We all get that. It’s entertainment, but it’s still okay to be invested and want the team to do well. It’s okay to be annoyed with incompetence.
RE: Nothing is more annoying..  
arcarsenal : 9/29/2020 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14989826 Sean said:
Quote:
than fans preaching about the importance of life and how sports don’t mean anything in the “big picture” of things.

No shit. We all get that. It’s entertainment, but it’s still okay to be invested and want the team to do well. It’s okay to be annoyed with incompetence.


Yessir.
RE: RE: personally I think  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/29/2020 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14989385 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14989265 Rory said:


Quote:


some of you need to re-evaluate if your healthy enough humans to watch football. Some of the comments I read on here during a losing game are kind of unsettling

I get it you want to find someone to blame for your sense of hurting but Jesus Christ man there's other things in life to help you live more balanced.

I left and went Mountain biking after the 3rd qtr, was an awesome day.


Personally I think a grown adult should know the difference between you're and your before questioning anyone's health.

I think the board might be better off if you rededicated yourself more often to mountain biking instead of posting.

Oh, NVM - just saw that your profile says you're a "nerd killer" - want my address so you can try to kill me?
RE: LOL - We're not alone  
bradshaw44 : 9/29/2020 2:35 pm : link
In comment 14988662 stoneman said:
Quote:
0-3 Atl, Minn, Tex, NYJ, Den,
1-2 NO, Det, LAC, Car, Cinn, Jax, Mia and the NFC East Dal/Phi/Was

Its 3 games against quality opponents - Pit 3-0, Chi 3-0, SF 2-1


Quality opponents? We just played the Niners B squad and got whooped worse than the other teams A squads. And technically speaking we have now lost to TWO back up QBs this year. As Trubisky is now riding pine.

We stink. I don’t blame the coach. If he had talent we would be more competitive I’m sure.
RE: RE: RE: personally I think  
Rory : 9/29/2020 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14990044 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14989385 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14989265 Rory said:


Quote:


some of you need to re-evaluate if your healthy enough humans to watch football. Some of the comments I read on here during a losing game are kind of unsettling

I get it you want to find someone to blame for your sense of hurting but Jesus Christ man there's other things in life to help you live more balanced.

I left and went Mountain biking after the 3rd qtr, was an awesome day.


Personally I think a grown adult should know the difference between you're and your before questioning anyone's health.

I think the board might be better off if you rededicated yourself more often to mountain biking instead of posting.


Oh, NVM - just saw that your profile says you're a "nerd killer" - want my address so you can try to kill me?


Prob should update that since I joined when this was called "Petes Corner"

an just tell you to "ease up" should suffice.
RE: RE: RE: RE: personally I think  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/29/2020 3:14 pm : link
In comment 14990077 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 14990044 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14989385 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14989265 Rory said:


Quote:


some of you need to re-evaluate if your healthy enough humans to watch football. Some of the comments I read on here during a losing game are kind of unsettling

I get it you want to find someone to blame for your sense of hurting but Jesus Christ man there's other things in life to help you live more balanced.

I left and went Mountain biking after the 3rd qtr, was an awesome day.


Personally I think a grown adult should know the difference between you're and your before questioning anyone's health.

I think the board might be better off if you rededicated yourself more often to mountain biking instead of posting.


Oh, NVM - just saw that your profile says you're a "nerd killer" - want my address so you can try to kill me?



Prob should update that since I joined when this was called "Petes Corner"

an just tell you to "ease up" should suffice.

The irony of coming to a Giants fan message board  
NoGainDayne : 9/29/2020 6:10 pm : link
where you are booed off the stage if you don't really know what you are talking about then poking at people for essentially being too serious is quite humorous.

I guess we are just a collection of super casual fans that somehow through the stars aligning have found each other.

If you really want to be persnickity.....  
Greg from LI : 9/29/2020 6:12 pm : link
You didn't join anything when this was Pete's Corner. There was no login back then. The login came after Pete's name was removed.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/29/2020 6:53 pm : link
Killing nerds is a tough job, guys. Someone's gotta do it.
...  
LBH15 : 9/29/2020 6:59 pm : link
When it comes to Gettleman  
Giant4Life : 10/1/2020 8:03 am : link
I was never on the ship.
After 3 games?  
cjac : 10/1/2020 8:11 am : link
How about after 3 years?
The talent evaluation team  
fkap : 10/1/2020 8:55 am : link
needs a major overhaul.

We really don't know if it was shaken up with the coaching change. Judge and staff likely got some say, but we don't know how much.
IF it was a lot, then patience is in order to see how he affects talent acquisition. the talent level won't dramatically change in one year no matter how good Judge is in talent evaluation.
IF the situation is closer to the "coaches don't shop for groceries" end of the spectrum, there should be no patience in the acquisition dep't, because that group has been in place for a while. Blow it all up - DG, scouting dept, whatever input the Maras have. IF Abrams is a big part of evaluation (rather than just being the accountant), blow him up, too. The dynamic has to change if the team is going to improve.
Back to the Corner