Certainly been discussed before, but it really looks the clock is ticking on the current general manager. The Giants have very recently made significant investments in two areas that any new GM from outside the organization would likely want to wipe clean and start over with his own guys: QB and Head Coach. Whether Jones and/or Judge are good, can be good or will be good is almost irrelevant. How many worthy GM candidates are going to choose to come to a team where the two most critical pieces are already anointed without any input from the prospective new GM? It’s been said plenty that Abrams will be the next GM, at which point he’ll obviously just play along and continue with the current setup and based on the critical moves of the last 2 years I find it hard to believe they would find anybody from the outside willing to come in here and not shake everything up.
I’d actually prefer to give Chris the GM job than being in another insider that will enable this disfunction.
I'm sure they'll be a few naysayers here on BBI but I have full confidence in Abrams righting this ship.
Hire the new GM. Make Judge interview for his job. Let the new GM evaluate Jones against the other available options.
New GM should have ultimate and final say over the HC and every player on the rooster.
We also must go outside the organization for the GM and find someone with 0 Giants or Mara ties.
But we need a talent acquisition person who can not only stock the team with strong starters, but good strong back-up depth.
I say go to SF for the answer. There must be an assistant GM there or someone in the GM's office who could replicate their success for us.
He just signed a contract extension this offseason
Link - ( New Window )
likely? No, I don't think so.
so you're going to let a coach with a 1-15 record pick his GM?
The plan seems logical — let DG retire after the season, insert Abrams as GM but in an arrangement that sees more than the usual control of personnel to JJ. If they fail, in a few years down the road you clean house.
The model is what they do in NE and up there BB makes The personnel decisions. I doubt JJ will have that level of say here, but given that Abrams background is not in football and JJ was hired to build a program and follows a blueprint that sees coaching ranks making decisions on players, its the logical way to go here.
Abrams being a cap specialist and Judge having a big say over personnel sounds like it can realistically happen.
Mara is stubbornness is a big issue here. It has to be the “Giants Way”, which means those who have been initiated into the Jints Central fraternity, or he just can’t handle it.
He’s like a person addicted to cigarettes and just can’t kick the habit.
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I think you could see Abrams as sort of a figurehead GM with Judge having final say on players.
Abrams being a cap specialist and Judge having a big say over personnel sounds like it can realistically happen.
Without a strong GM, We will get Chris and Tim making personnel decisions.
Those two owners aren’t going to take a back seat to a coach with a max of a half a dozen career wins.
It is what it is. There's no Pete Rozelle coming to put Wellington in the corner. The last embers of those Giants went out when Ernie retired.
This a full on 100% Mara production from now on. Does not matter who the figurehead GM is.
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they must like him.. why not have him pick his own GM.. after 3 or 4 years if it doesn't work out then dump both. and then start fresh..
so you're going to let a coach with a 1-15 record pick his GM?
No you fire DG ASAP.. and if we go 1-15 then just fire Judge if needed.. but at this stage you must've thought he was special because you gave him a 5 year contract.. why not try what other teams have and let the coach pick his guy.. Its a better solution than someone in house and someone random who may completely change the course..
GM candidates are unlikely to be wildly known by fans, unless you go with a former player like Den and SF did.
What ex GMs are out there, Dorsey?
What’s Mike Holmgren doing?
Can Ozzie Newsome be coaxed out of retirement?
There were a core of us who wanted someone who had zero ties to the organization - past or present. A fresh voice with new ideas not heavily indoctrinated in the "Giants Way".
I liked Eric DeCosta. But I don't even think he was given an interview. Now he's killing it with the Ravens.
Yup I agree with this
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when the Giants were looking for a GM last time, nobody here had a guy who was a slam dunk hire for us.
There were a core of us who wanted someone who had zero ties to the organization - past or present. A fresh voice with new ideas not heavily indoctrinated in the "Giants Way".
I liked Eric DeCosta. But I don't even think he was given an interview. Now he's killing it with the Ravens.
Eric DeCosta chose not to interview for any outside positions, bc he knew he was the heir to Newsome in Baltimore. That wasn't the Giants refusing to give him a chance
That would have been a disaster. But maybe he would have chosen Josh Allen in 2018 instead of Barkley... ;)
Eric DeCosta chose not to interview for any outside positions, bc he knew he was the heir to Newsome in Baltimore. That wasn't the Giants refusing to give him a chance
I wonder if we even reached out though. Even if DeCosta won't leave, you still go all out to bring him in...
Guy has learned very well under Newsome's guidance.
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Based on how he seemed to analyze the draft, I think that with Riddick, we would have taken Haskins at #6.
That would have been a disaster. But maybe he would have chosen Josh Allen in 2018 instead of Barkley... ;)
Possible. HE was no fan of Eli. But I would bet you that Darnold was higher on his list than Allen.
I read that earlier. Need to give Thomas more time. Still early.
I really liked Wills over Thomas. I caught some of that Browns game yesterday and he looked okay. But nothing stellar - yet...
The plan seems logical — let DG retire after the season, insert Abrams as GM but in an arrangement that sees more than the usual control of personnel to JJ. If they fail, in a few years down the road you clean house.
The model is what they do in NE and up there BB makes The personnel decisions. I doubt JJ will have that level of say here, but given that Abrams background is not in football and JJ was hired to build a program and follows a blueprint that sees coaching ranks making decisions on players, its the logical way to go here.
I honestly can’t believe this isn’t apparent to supposed die hard fans here. Everything points to this. Judge is the future of this franchise
No we wouldn't, because Riddick would've blown up the team and taken Darnold at #2 in the 2017 draft. And who knows where this team would be right now, but probably better than where we're at.
Hire the new GM. Make Judge interview for his job. Let the new GM evaluate Jones against the other available options.
The giants aren’t going to fire him as they gave him a five year deal. Shurmer has to be paid the balance of this season and then 2 more. So going a 3rd HC, unlikely.
Ozzie Newsome makes the most sense. Hand him 100% control of all football operations with the caveat Judge get 2020 and 2021. Newsome and Bellichick are very close, and I am sure BB endorses Judge.
I’m here to announce Dave is going to be retiring. He’s done a fine job these last three years. He’s revamped how we do everything, and leaving this organization in what I believe is a really positive place. He’s brought in some special players in Daniel, Saquon, Andrew, among others. The future for the Giants is bright. Now for the 0-16 season, it all begins with ownership and I’ll take my part of the blame for that ...
Yup...there were a couple of beat reporters that brought his name up in the offseason as a potential replacement as he is friendly with Judge. Would be interesting to see how they would handle Abrams at that point.
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Based on how he seemed to analyze the draft, I think that with Riddick, we would have taken Haskins at #6.
No we wouldn't, because Riddick would've blown up the team and taken Darnold at #2 in the 2017 draft. And who knows where this team would be right now, but probably better than where we're at.
I’m here to announce Dave is going to be retiring. He’s done a fine job these last three years. He’s revamped how we do everything, and leaving this organization in what I believe is a really positive place. He’s brought in some special players in Daniel, Saquon, Andrew, among others. The future for the Giants is bright. Now for the 0-16 season, it all begins with ownership and I’ll take my part of the blame for that ...
Is the immediate segue to announcing Abrams as the next GM? Or will Mara draw out the "suspense" and tell us the next day? ;)
whoever wrote that article should go fuck themselves lol
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The after season press conference will be something like this:
I’m here to announce Dave is going to be retiring. He’s done a fine job these last three years. He’s revamped how we do everything, and leaving this organization in what I believe is a really positive place. He’s brought in some special players in Daniel, Saquon, Andrew, among others. The future for the Giants is bright. Now for the 0-16 season, it all begins with ownership and I’ll take my part of the blame for that ...
Is the immediate segue to announcing Abrams as the next GM? Or will Mara draw out the "suspense" and tell us the next day? ;)
We’re going to be bringing in Ernie to help us like we did last time. We’ve got some guys in the building who we want to interview, and a short list of candidates we’ll (pretend) talk to outside of the team.
Just to be clear...
You want a special teams coach, who has proven nothing other than he can say the right thing in interviews, making all coaching a player acquisition decisions? What has he shown to make you think that's going to be anything but a shitshow?
The Giants don't lack money. Tank, get the first pick, then throw money at the best GMs in the league, and let one of them build everything.
Giving Judge full reign is the last thing this organization needs.
We’re going to be bringing in Ernie to help us like we did last time. We’ve got some guys in the building who we want to interview, and a short list of candidates we’ll (pretend) talk to outside of the team.
You really shouldn't kid about that. If that happens again, I'm renouncing my fandom and going with the BB and the Pats.
When Reese was let go last time we heard from Mara how he was going to cast this wide net search for the next GM. I thought that was a great idea. Until ten minutes later we learned Accorsi was being hired to lead the change. Which instantly revealed there was going to be no such search and Gettleman was fait accompli...
The GM is a figurehead set up as part of the "groupthink", sell the product, deal with the press/media and receive credit/blame. Eventually the GM's head will roll and the Maras continue on unscathed, surfacing at the end of the year to tell us all how angry they are and how everything's being evaluated.
It's a nice setup.
But with Mara knowing all this, he can't in good conscience fire a GM. It's why they last so long here. And Tisch cannot in good conscience be pissed at DG. If anything, he's pissed at the Maras.
When Reese was let go last time we heard from Mara how he was going to cast this wide net search for the next GM. I thought that was a great idea. Until ten minutes later we learned Accorsi was being hired to lead the change. Which instantly revealed there was going to be no such search and Gettleman was fait accompli...
I’d be shocked if the GM transition isn’t a straight move to Abrams or The Accorsi Show, followed by the transition to Abrams.
The GM is responsible for a bunch of duties. Player personnel and scouting are a part of that, but far from the whole job.
That means that a new GM can shift some of the player personnel role to the HC and still be a proper GM.
I don't think any of us know whether JJ wants that role. I'm sure every coach wants more input on player personnel, but preparing a draft board is a lot of work and the coach is kind of busy during CFB season.
The GM is a figurehead set up as part of the "groupthink", sell the product, deal with the press/media and receive credit/blame. Eventually the GM's head will roll and the Maras continue on unscathed, surfacing at the end of the year to tell us all how angry they are and how everything's being evaluated.
It's a nice setup.
But with Mara knowing all this, he can't in good conscience fire a GM. It's why they last so long here. And Tisch cannot in good conscience be pissed at DG. If anything, he's pissed at the Maras.
This is my belief as well
I wish they would either just promote Chris Mara or tell him to go away.
People know Abrams is responsible for trades too right? Means he was very much in on the LW trade among others.
To this end the Andrew Thomas thing becomes relevant as with all of our other poor strategic reaches with so many holes on our team.
Barkley, Jones, and Thomas were all taken higher than they should have been taken when a trade down would have been very helpful to the team.
It's fine to have conviction but especially this year with 4 good guys you better be damn sure you have the right one. The jury is still out, will make no bones about that. But all we heard was that Thomas was the guy because he was the most polished and NFL ready, he doesn't look like that right now.
Becton did represent a risk but the ability to compete better this year with an extra pick, a C a RT, could have made all the difference.
The Giants seem to have a very poor grasp on value so yeah I'm incredibly skeptical of the guy who is their authority on that.
Looking at the 2020 draft class Thomas looks promising. Our safety has yet to get on the field. Peart and Lemieux have had very good reviews from staff and Giants insiders. We took a bunch of later round LBS. Coughlin was hurt. Hopefully from that group someone emerges. The new staff obviously wanted to get numbers and talent in the pipeline. This draft class can still be a big part of the future. We may get 4-5 good starters out of it.
I think it comes down to Jones. They will hit WR, CB and Edge next offseason. If Jones comes around I think they turn the corner but it may be next year (pandemic did not help). Hopefully he gets some confidence back as the year goes on.
I know people love Lawrence and probably a new GM would or maybe another QB. Lawrence played poorly in last years NC game. He plays in a very weak conference. I am not so sure he is the next coming. Things look bleak right now. Let's see how they respond (coaches and players).
So with that in mind, Reese gets a pass because meddling Mara was behind all of his failures too, right?
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For Getts - ( New Window )
I read that earlier. Need to give Thomas more time. Still early.
I really liked Wills over Thomas. I caught some of that Browns game yesterday and he looked okay. But nothing stellar - yet...
I have watched all four (Thomas, Wills, Wirfs and Becton) and seen ups and downs on all. Actually think they are all holding their own decently and don't stand out as obvious rookies on their respective lines.
As mentioned, let's give them a full season and see who performed at highest level.
I'm sure they'll be a few naysayers here on BBI but I have full confidence in Abrams righting this ship.
I love satire.
The GM is a figurehead set up as part of the "groupthink", sell the product, deal with the press/media and receive credit/blame. Eventually the GM's head will roll and the Maras continue on unscathed, surfacing at the end of the year to tell us all how angry they are and how everything's being evaluated.
It's a nice setup.
Do you have a Dave Gettleman bobble-head?
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There won't be any need to go outside the organization. They've been grooming DG's replacement for years now. He's a whiz with the salary cap (sure some will argue we constantly lead the league in dead money, but it would have been worse without Abrams deft accounting moves). True, he doesn't have much of a background on the "football" side of things, but he's been learning from one of the best in DG.
I'm sure they'll be a few naysayers here on BBI but I have full confidence in Abrams righting this ship.
I love satire.
Flashes of this great scene from The Office
Due to Michael's clever financial maneuvering... - ( New Window )
I'm sure they'll be a few naysayers here on BBI but I have full confidence in Abrams righting this ship.
😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Who cares about that?
I don’t need a pound of flesh, I just want good football
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they must like him.. why not have him pick his own GM.. after 3 or 4 years if it doesn't work out then dump both. and then start fresh..
so you're going to let a coach with a 1-15 record pick his GM?
Better to let owners who would then have a 13-51 record over the past four seasons (and 43-85 over the past eight) do it? Or just keep the GM with the the 10-38 record over the past three?
Even if he goes 1-15, Judge will still have less blood on his hands than the ownership/front office structure that surrounds him.
Be careful, that’s the part of the conspiracy theory that will get you silenced.
The Evil Puppet Master Mara is a vicious tyrant. His ways are unfair and his hand is heavy.
The battered careers of many lie in his wake, victims of his meddling.
Except for Reese, all that shit was his fault.