Jason Garrett

And it's not Jason Garrett.. not that he isn't a problem.. but the biggest problem is talent. We don't have any. How many OC are we. Going to change? Maybe just maybe some of these guys suck and BBI overestimate weekday DG has provided.

In comment 14996850 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

could have a few gripes, all in all I think Garrett's play calling has been fine. We are pretty undermanned right now at the skill positions, and the OL is still coming together after no preseason and hardly any practices with a brand new staff. Jason Garrett is not one of the reasons we are 0-4.

We've scored 3 TD's in 4 games. Maybe Jason Garrett isn't THE reason, but he is certainly one of them.

Pat Shurmur had the same cast of characters, his OL was worse, but had far more production. Jones has regressed noticably.

In comment 14996849 Section331 said:

Quote:

that Jason Garrett isn't being helped by the talent he has to work with, why not acknowledge that he had a ton of talent to work with in Dallas? He also had playcalling taken away from him. Pat Shurmur had as little, maybe even less talent to work with, but the NYG were 19th in offense. Jones looks like he has regressed markedly, which is concerning. Coaches get paid too. Using Kitchens getting a HC job based on his TE coaching is a little spurious given how piss poor Cleveland's decision-making has been. EVERYONE expected him to be a HC disaster, everyone except the CLE FO.

#1... we can flip that argument completely around too. It works both ways. Garrett didn't forget how to coach.

#2... Shurmur had Saquon Barkley, who improved as the year progressed. He was the only player on this team who scared the opposition, even when he was hurt. The fact that you can't recognize the impact of his loss is weird.

#3... "spurious"... Kitchens was regarded as a top notch TEs coach. Why would that change? Weird comment.

we had posters calling Graham a "disaster" after the 49ers game. Saying we should have never hired him, he sucks, blah blah.

New schemes take time. We've seen glimpses of the defense coming together as a unit, and they really put a nice "whole" game together against the Rams, which was probably their toughest test.

The offense is going to take time, whether you want to admit it or not. And because of the injuries, it might take more time than expected. It's just reality.

it's becoming clear as time goes on that posters who call for change aren't willing to live with he growing pains of change. They want change, and then immediately want awesome results.

The NFL unfortunately doesn't work that way, we are no different than any of the other teams that did this during the rebuilding/changing schemes phase.

And now, with Barkley out, the Covid offseason, etc...it might just take more time than excepted. Not sure what else to say about this.

coaches that is. They were unprepared to capitalize they either made no adjustments or poor adjustments and the team seemed flat. That was not the case yesterday in my opinion. Except for the rams first drive, I liked what I saw (well that and the final score). I liked that they said hell yeah we're gonna run on first down and they picked up 2 to 4 yards(I don't recall seeing a TFL on one of those run plays). I liked that they had some misdirection plays in there (an appropriately small amount I felt). I agree with the fact that Lewis should not be in on that WR screen play and I agree with the fact that Penny must have photos of somebody to still be on this team (are they waiting to 'spring' a surprise fullback handoff that goes for 9 yards on some unsuspecting opponent?!). I NEVER agree with Greg and I did it on two replies in one post!

In comment 14996919 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

it's becoming clear as time goes on that posters who call for change aren't willing to live with he growing pains of change. They want change, and then immediately want awesome results. The NFL unfortunately doesn't work that way, we are no different than any of the other teams that did this during the rebuilding/changing schemes phase. And now, with Barkley out, the Covid offseason, etc...it might just take more time than excepted. Not sure what else to say about this.

This is a very accurate statement. People screaming for another change think a change creates immediate results. We are effectively at the end of preseason now (4 games) and people want change again. I firmly believe if we draft Lawrence, then by the end of next year they will want us to draft the next "can't miss" QB.

at the doorstep of Shurmur and poor coaching. And even suggesting that replacing him should easily add at least a few more wins in 2020.

Now Garrett is the current punching bag for posters that really have no idea whether either coach is good or bad at running an offense for the NYG.

Not supporting either guy but I do know that you all don’t know.

we all witnessed Pat Shurmur's coaching for 2 years. Bad game prep, horrific, and I do mean horrific, in game management with timeouts, play calls, decisions.....there's a reason he's considered one of the worst head coaches in NFL history. He was that bad.

Are we now playing revisionist history with Pat Shurmur? He was a truly horrible head coach.

In comment 14996881 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

#1... we can flip that argument completely around too. It works both ways. Garrett didn't forget how to coach.

Not sure Garrett ever really knew how to coach in the first place

manage timeouts and game adjustments for the first 4 games compared to Shurmur's timeouts and game management....they are on two different stratospheres. We could be 0-6 and I won't give a shit. One guy knows how to handle a game, the other doesn't.

In comment 14996725 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

And certainly haven't seen anything to make me think any better of him since. Watch Bobby Skinner's OL breakdown from last week and he describes in detail how poor play design is making the OL look even worse than they're actually playing. Noticed this yesterday too - in the second half, they tried to run some kind of a screen to a WR or TE (can't remember now). Problem was, the play relied on Dion Lewis to be a lead blocker. He was predictably run over and the play went for a loss. As soon as I noticed that on the replay, I couldn't believe that they ran that play with Lewis on the field. Just stupid.

Lewis completely whiffed on his block on that play, he didn't get run over he just missed

into the action in creative ways, contrary to how a poster above criticized Garrett for not using him. Result: 6 catches for 35 yds. Engram is an inconsistent tweeter with little impact on the game.

I think they need to try and trade him.

Cowboys fans are learning early on the grass isn't always greener. They couldn't throw him out of town fast enough. But Garrett went 85-67 in Dallas. They were usually always competitive, won less than 8 games only one time, and if not for the Bryant non catch call....we might be singing a different tune.

But in the end they never got past the divisional round with him as the coach, so that's probably a negative. I'll say this, he pretty much always kicked our ass as the head coach of the Cowboys so....there's that.

it's always been the Cowboys defense that has let them down in big spots. Garrett's offenses were always top notch. I'm hopeful that with another offseason for drafts and FA and growth from our OL investments, this offense will be humming next year.

Since they were handed a win by the refs against the Lions the week prior.

In comment 14996984 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

Since they were handed a win by the refs against the Lions the week prior.

True, i did forget about that brutal non call for PI. That was one of the worst ever.

in a week. The gameplan ltterally got thrown out the window week 1. Our line got expossed and now everyone has seen it. It all starts with running the footall. If we cant run then then play action and RPO elements get taken out as well.

We had an very different run look this week that I think is all on Garrets ability to adjust. We add some playmaking into the mix and we will be back on track.

In comment 14996707 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

𝗟𝗮𝘄𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗧𝘆𝗻𝗲𝘀 @lt4kicks Let me educate you. This current team has zero weapons available that defenses plan for. Tate- Washed Shep- OUT and average Barkley- OUT for year Engram- AVG Slayton- #2

Wow...and this is exactly why they are 0-4. Engram practices like a stud plays like a dud. Not sure why they don't use Smith more.

In comment 14996999 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 14996984 Greg from LI said: Quote: Since they were handed a win by the refs against the Lions the week prior. True, i did forget about that brutal non call for PI. That was one of the worst ever.

Worse yet, flags were thrown for PI. But then the refs "huddled" and then picked up the flag. On blatant PI.

TE is a black hole right now. I wish they could at least find someone who can block. I'd take a Howard Cross stonehands type as long as he could generate some movement on the line.

In comment 14996949 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

we all witnessed Pat Shurmur's coaching for 2 years. Bad game prep, horrific, and I do mean horrific, in game management with timeouts, play calls, decisions.....there's a reason he's considered one of the worst head coaches in NFL history. He was that bad. Are we now playing revisionist history with Pat Shurmur? He was a truly horrible head coach.

No doubt, PS was in WAY over his head, but he has shown himself to be a) a good OC, and b) good with QB's. He gameplanned a team that won 11 games with KASE KEENUM at QB.

I'm not arguing firing Garrett, but the play calling and Jones significant regression are concerning.

I feared a lack of innovation or excitement, but I didn't fear a total lack of effectiveness. I have to think he had pretty big plans for Saquon that are now totally out the window, but his early showings on how to incorporate Saquon weren't terribly promising.

Overall, one of those "safe" hires that paradoxically seldom winds up being safe.

When Garrett was signed. And I’m not putting all the blame on him either. But what a shit show this offense has been. Of course if we had a few decent receivers and a running back or two that wasn’t hurt or could make an impact in a game who knows?

In comment 14996949 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

we all witnessed Pat Shurmur's coaching for 2 years. Bad game prep, horrific, and I do mean horrific, in game management with timeouts, play calls, decisions.....there's a reason he's considered one of the worst head coaches in NFL history. He was that bad. Are we now playing revisionist history with Pat Shurmur? He was a truly horrible head coach.

Not revisionist anything. The Giants aren't scoring...at all. And I don't see anything special in the Offensive gameplanning or execution versus last year. DJ is regressing.

Again, not suggesting Garrett is the right guy but was Shurmur's offense really worse? I don't think so.

In comment 14997007 Blue21 said:

Quote:

In comment 14996707 Eric from BBI said: Quote: 𝗟𝗮𝘄𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗧𝘆𝗻𝗲𝘀 @lt4kicks Let me educate you. This current team has zero weapons available that defenses plan for. Tate- Washed Shep- OUT and average Barkley- OUT for year Engram- AVG Slayton- #2 Wow...and this is exactly why they are 0-4. Engram practices like a stud plays like a dud. Not sure why they don't use Smith more.

I think he's being charitable. If we actually had a #2 and 2 average guys, that would be enough to get a good offense going.

In comment 14996777 Stratman said:

Quote:

The game was lost because Graham decided to blitz on the seam pass TD to Kupp. The Giants D was doing a good job of containing the Rams. Instead of playing fundamental football, Graham dials up a blitz there leaving the middle of the field wide open. The result was the result.

The Giants blitzed a lot yesterday, the problem on this play was that the safety jumped to the RB in the flat and Kupp ran right by him. That is an execution problem.

In comment 14996912 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

we had posters calling Graham a "disaster" after the 49ers game. Saying we should have never hired him, he sucks, blah blah. New schemes take time. We've seen glimpses of the defense coming together as a unit, and they really put a nice "whole" game together against the Rams, which was probably their toughest test. The offense is going to take time, whether you want to admit it or not. And because of the injuries, it might take more time than expected. It's just reality.

The defense played pretty well v Pitt and Chicago before the stinker v SF. The offense has scored 3 TD's in 4 games, 47 pts, 20 less than the 31st place Jets. I'm not calling for firing Garrett, but there are troubling signs.

I`m a old guy..Old enough to be in Yankee Stadium when we lost to the Colts in overtime... I do not like Garrett because I believe he was calling BAD plays that the Cowboy players would have a hard time making when he was the OC...Bum Phillips I believe was the HC...They talked about the HC is going to get fired by all the TV announcers because the offence was so bad etc..I think Garrett was doing it so Phillips would get fired,and Garrett had a big chance to get the job...If my thoughts are true,this turkey wants to get our HC fired also...I don`t trust him one bit...He wants to be a HC again..

In comment 14996823 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

Doesn't seem to make much sense.

Special teams and emergency RB is my guess.

Create confusion in the defense, help the QB diagnose man v. zone, etc...and so with that here are the pre-snap motion rates for the league after 4 weeks:

In comment 14996744 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

1 he locks onto his first read way to much.. 2 he pats the ball everytime right before he throws the ball, dbs see that on film and break on the ball.. He needs to correct those 2 things

Good try, If DBs are watching the QB, then they are beaten. So that theory is hogwash.

Willie Beamen.

In comment 14999569 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

Willie Beamen.

Steamin Beamen?

If that hasn't been coached out of him by now it will never be.

In comment 14999573 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 14999569 UConn4523 said: Quote: Willie Beamen. Steamin Beamen?

Yes.

Elway, Marino, Favre, and plenty of other QB's pat the ball. Not something I feel strongly about one way or another.

Those guys didn't do it the same way Jones does. Jones brings the ball down to his belly, pats, throws. It's a more ball security problem, and it impacts timing.

There's another couple differences from those guys:

1. All had major arm strength and could zip the ball in ways Jones can't
2. Passing offenses in the 80s didn't rely as much on timing as they do now

Jones's hitch is an issue.

problem...

I think we all have to realize that this season is about finding who are the players and who are the next batch to be released at the end of the year. Yep I get all worked up too, but once Judge said he planned on young guys getting playing time during the games, I am willing to concede that this season is one big spring training. This is exactly what we wanted(if we go back and look out out expectations). This is the long game. This is evaluations.

Downs out, Crowder in. Ballentine out, Yiadom in and then out and Lewis in. Markus Golden barely on the field.

I think we will just have to eat shit and like it this year.

In comment 14999558 Go Terps said:

Quote:

Create confusion in the defense, help the QB diagnose man v. zone, etc...and so with that here are the pre-snap motion rates for the league after 4 weeks:

It was one of the things that drove me crazy about McAdoo's offense - so little pre-snap motion. In addition to the benefits Terps mentioned, it also allows a free release for the WR's in motion, making it harder for DB's to jam at the LOS. For a guy like Slayton, who has really struggled with that, more motion would help.

In comment 14999565 section125 said:

Quote:

Good try, If DBs are watching the QB, then they are beaten. So that theory is hogwash.

You don't think DB's look at the QB? Less in man coverage, but they absolutely do in zone, and most teams are playing zone because Jones has struggled with it.

In comment 14999606 Section331 said:

Quote:

In comment 14999565 section125 said: Quote: Good try, If DBs are watching the QB, then they are beaten. So that theory is hogwash. You don't think DB's look at the QB? Less in man coverage, but they absolutely do in zone, and most teams are playing zone because Jones has struggled with it.

Long known and spoken about each week by the announcers, DBs that watch the QB get burned by receivers. It seems natural to me to watch the QB, but how can you know where the receiver is if you watch the QB. Even in zone, if you watch the QB, how would you know who is there.

teams do you think Jason Garrett would be his OC? Or do you think Jason Garrett is the Giants OC because the Mara family wanted him to be the Giants OC?

Understand and read this slowly. I am not saying the Maras went to Judge and said you don't get the job if you don't hire Jason Garrett as your OC. I'm not saying after he was hired the Maras went to Judge and said we are ordering you to hire Jason Garrett as your OC.

What I am saying is that the Maras plural used their influence on their rookie HC to strongly suggest that Jason Garrett would be the perfect fit as OC even though Judge had no relationship with him.

Have any of you ever joined a new organization in a high level position and had that kind of conversation? Trust me in Judge's situation that's as much pressure as he'll ever feel to do what the owners want him to do and I wonder if he has the authority if the rest of this season keeps going in this direction to change OCs if that's what he wants to do.

We'll probably never know we can only speculate.

patting the ball, wide receiver separation issues, Covid-19, global warming or the Kennedy Assassination.

Somebody better damn well figure out a way to get that ball into the end zone for a few touchdowns this week.

In comment 14999633 arniefez said:

Quote:

teams do you think Jason Garrett would be his OC? Or do you think Jason Garrett is the Giants OC because the Mara family wanted him to be the Giants OC? Understand and read this slowly. I am not saying the Maras went to Judge and said you don't get the job if you don't hire Jason Garrett as your OC. I'm not saying after he was hired the Maras went to Judge and said we are ordering you to hire Jason Garrett as your OC. What I am saying is that the Maras plural used their influence on their rookie HC to strongly suggest that Jason Garrett would be the perfect fit as OC even though Judge had no relationship with him. Have any of you ever joined a new organization in a high level position and had that kind of conversation? Trust me in Judge's situation that's as much pressure as he'll ever feel to do what the owners want him to do and I wonder if he has the authority if the rest of this season keeps going in this direction to change OCs if that's what he wants to do. We'll probably never know we can only speculate.

If he didn't take Garrett of his own accord(or at least strongly consider him) then he would have been a fool. Garrett was one of the best OC candidate out there, if not the best. Hell he was probably one of the best HC candidates out there.

So what is your point? Just throw shit at the wall and see how much sticks?

In comment 14999558 Go Terps said:

Quote:

Create confusion in the defense, help the QB diagnose man v. zone, etc...and so with that here are the pre-snap motion rates for the league after 4 weeks:

great stats. A whole lot of losing from 26 down except for the Brady led Buccaneers.

In comment 14999614 section125 said:

Quote:

Long known and spoken about each week by the announcers, DBs that watch the QB get burned by receivers. It seems natural to me to watch the QB, but how can you know where the receiver is if you watch the QB. Even in zone, if you watch the QB, how would you know who is there.

That they sometimes get burned by it doesn't mean they don't do it, don't have success doing it (the good ones do), and aren't taught to do it (they are).

Exactly what qualified Jason Garrett as the best OC candidate? That he was an OC in 2012? Because you said so? How many teams did the Giants need to out bid for this highly in demand OC?

The good news for those of us that would prefer a young cutting edge OC in 2021 is that since he's such a qualified HC candidate some team will hire him away from the Giants.

In comment 14999798 arniefez said:

Quote:

Exactly what qualified Jason Garrett as the best OC candidate? That he was an OC in 2012? Because you said so? How many teams did the Giants need to out bid for this highly in demand OC? The good news for those of us that would prefer a young cutting edge OC in 2021 is that since he's such a qualified HC candidate some team will hire him away from the Giants.

Honestly I think it was as much about Garrett having head coach experience to be able to help judge as it was the offense.

People look at coaches and think if they did a job 10 years ago, they can do it just as well today. Jason Garrett had play calling taken away from him in Dallas.

During the hiring process they sold him as "developed Tony romo and dak" when nobody really knows how much responsibility to give him for that.