Jason Garrett

Garrett's offenses in Dallas were perennially in the top 10/top 5.

Do you notice that we keep blaming the coaches over and over again?

I suggest you re-read Lawrence Tyne's tweet.

He needs to get jones moving more, when he stands in the pocket he locks onto 1 receiver, when he is moving his eyes move better..

Garrett is handicapped with no running game, in the 2nd half yesterday it started to move a little bit..

I thought his 3rd down call when they were down 10-9 and tate got demolished was terrible, rams defense looked like it was a little tired, run it with Freeman up the middle and get the 2 yards

kudos to him for finding a running game with this awful group of players. However I don't think anyone could develop a downfield passing game with our awful WRs and still-gelling offensive line

In comment 14996687 Eric from BBI said:

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Garrett's offenses in Dallas were perennially in the top 10/top 5. Do you notice that we keep blaming the coaches over and over again? I suggest you re-read Lawrence Tyne's tweet.

Giants do not have a go to receiver, good teams have that guy when they need a play they draw up a play for that player..Giants do not have that so it makes it that much harder for the qb and oc..

In comment 14996687 Eric from BBI said:

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Garrett's offenses in Dallas were perennially in the top 10/top 5. Do you notice that we keep blaming the coaches over and over again? I suggest you re-read Lawrence Tyne's tweet.

Eric, any chance you have a link to that? I don't have a Twitter account and am lazy....more later than former.

With the game on the line with 57 seconds left, the Giants had Damion Ratley on the field (intended receiver on the INT).

Raitley was cut by the Cleveland Browns.

𝗟𝗮𝘄𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗧𝘆𝗻𝗲𝘀 @lt4kicks

Let me educate you. This current team has zero weapons available that defenses plan for.

Tate- Washed
Shep- OUT and average
Barkley- OUT for year
Engram- AVG
Slayton- #2

In comment 14996707 Eric from BBI said:

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𝗟𝗮𝘄𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗧𝘆𝗻𝗲𝘀 @lt4kicks Let me educate you. This current team has zero weapons available that defenses plan for. Tate- Washed Shep- OUT and average Barkley- OUT for year Engram- AVG Slayton- #2

Facts

offense has stunk but I have a hard time thinking its hie fault. Turnovers and limited talent seem to be the big 2 glaring issues. When the former doesn't happen we are right in the games and need to execute better. The latter we can't do anything about right now.

But execution. I've said it before and its sad, but this week I was happy with the OL progress and thought they ran a lot better. The chunk play by Galman was nice to see as were the multiple 3 or 4 yard pound it in the middle running gains by Freeman. I think thats something SB needs to learn better is to take the 2 or 3 hard yards and dont take the loss looking to score a touchdown. Dion Lewis should not be in at this point. He got absolutely decleted on a pass out to the flat to Tate where he was supposed to block. He doesn't add anything.

But yesterday's game was a redemption of sorts, from the first few weeks.

Do we put 2+2 together here? Everyone complains about the absolute lack of talent on offense and you expect Garrett to have a wide open offense? We do not have a single receiver (including Slayton) who is physical and gets any separation. So now you question DJ for locking onto his #1 receiver (whomever that may be) and the OL has to pass protect until a receiver gets open. What are you possibly expecting from Garrett with this personnel? As stated above, he is the least of our problems.

In comment 14996705 Eric from BBI said:

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With the game on the line with 57 seconds left, the Giants had Damion Ratley on the field (intended receiver on the INT). Raitley was cut by the Cleveland Browns.

I agree that is why i said they do not have that number 1 guy..

In those situations teams always habe set plays for the number 1..

I am not going to argue if they should of traded beckham but not having a nukber 1 is killing them

last year Jones didn't have any games without a TD and he had 5 (of 12) with multiple. This year? His first 3 games without a TD.

The offensive line seems to be coming around, and if there's a second metric of evaluation for Garrett that will be it. Flemming played with him in Dallas. Columbo has only ever coached with him in Dallas. Bill Callahan was out there for the taking if they could have mended the fence. Biadasz was sitting there in the draft for the taking a few times and he's already been pressed into action in Dallas (Gates did play by far his best game yesterday though).

Garrett also seems to be doing a very poor job utilizing the few weapons he has - namely Slayton and Engram. Engram's issues in the past have been injuries and the occasional drop but he has never not produced when healthy. Until now. Slayton is just M.I.A. for the most part.

Obviously it's early on in year 1 but this is an area where we absolutely need to hope Judge is up to making an assessment on the future direction he wants to after the season. Hopefully things get better and the decision becomes obvious, but if not Brian Flores fired his OC last year after his first season.

In comment 14996721 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 14996705 Eric from BBI said: Quote: With the game on the line with 57 seconds left, the Giants had Damion Ratley on the field (intended receiver on the INT). Raitley was cut by the Cleveland Browns. I agree that is why i said they do not have that number 1 guy.. In those situations teams always habe set plays for the number 1.. I am not going to argue if they should of traded beckham but not having a nukber 1 is killing them

and the amazing thing he is now listed as our #1 WR on the depth chart. Its nuts.

And certainly haven't seen anything to make me think any better of him since. Watch Bobby Skinner's OL breakdown from last week and he describes in detail how poor play design is making the OL look even worse than they're actually playing. Noticed this yesterday too - in the second half, they tried to run some kind of a screen to a WR or TE (can't remember now). Problem was, the play relied on Dion Lewis to be a lead blocker. He was predictably run over and the play went for a loss. As soon as I noticed that on the replay, I couldn't believe that they ran that play with Lewis on the field. Just stupid.

In comment 14996687 Eric from BBI said:

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Garrett's offenses in Dallas were perennially in the top 10/top 5. Do you notice that we keep blaming the coaches over and over again? I suggest you re-read Lawrence Tyne's tweet.

Would have been harder to not be top 10 with their level of talent.

hang it up on Garrett just yet. Bad players, no OTAs/preseason... returning to a job he hasn't done in 8-9 years, on a team w/ all new coaching staff.

I'd give him 2 years -- Let's see what he can do w/ a year under his belt, Barkley back (hopefully), and either T. Lawrence or a bounty of top offensive draft picks chosen by someone other than DG.

In comment 14996707 Eric from BBI said:

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𝗟𝗮𝘄𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗧𝘆𝗻𝗲𝘀 @lt4kicks Let me educate you. This current team has zero weapons available that defenses plan for. Tate- Washed Shep- OUT and average Barkley- OUT for year Engram- AVG Slayton- #2

Thank you for the link and as to the education....If you look further down on Tynes page where he says he's only interested in the 'fight on the field' that play is where Ramsey BLOWS through Lewis and then plants Tate. He crushed TWO of our players on one play.
I'm not disputing lack of weapons, but other QBs make due with what they have. I think DJ has some progress to make in this offense, I think the pick late was him forcing a pass in and I think his legs are an outstanding added dimension. He was trying to make a play but seemed like he was staring down his reciever as well.....

in the vanilla by Garrett is the fear to have Jones sit in the pocket while you send Slayton deep. Deep throws take time and Jones has a propensity to hold the ball instead of sensing the rush and running away from it.

Garret may not want him standing there waiting for a deep throw to open up while a DT beats one of the Giants tackles and takes Jones's head off.

Add that to the fact that he has no real talent to throw to who can get separation.

In comment 14996707 Eric from BBI said:

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𝗟𝗮𝘄𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗧𝘆𝗻𝗲𝘀 @lt4kicks Let me educate you. This current team has zero weapons available that defenses plan for. Tate- Washed Shep- OUT and average Barkley- OUT for year Engram- AVG Slayton- #2

I was told by many people on here that Slayton was a #1

for years in dallas before he was hired to do it with the giants. it's not a surprise the offense has looked stale, but no one was expecting it would look all-time bad.

not sure you can blame it all on injuries and lousy players, though gettleman has surrounded jones with almost nothing, and jones himself might be nothing.

1 he locks onto his first read way to much..

2 he pats the ball everytime right before he throws the ball, dbs see that on film and break on the ball..

He needs to correct those 2 things

We're not talking about just the last couple of years, but since he's been in Dallas and before he was HC.

But if you want to blame Garrett and make it a really simple case of scapegoating one person (a BBI tradition), go right ahead if it makes you feel better.

How many OC's have we had in the last decade again?

In comment 14996744 nygiants16 said:

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1 he locks onto his first read way to much.. 2 he pats the ball everytime right before he throws the ball, dbs see that on film and break on the ball.. He needs to correct those 2 things

to fix those things we need to understand why he does them in the first place. I don't know the answer to that question but he looks a lot less decisive making his reads this year than he did at any point last year when he by and large had similar personnel. Shurmur's system seems like it was both better at distributing the ball quickly and going downfield (to this point).

In comment 14996707 Eric from BBI said:

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𝗟𝗮𝘄𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗧𝘆𝗻𝗲𝘀 @lt4kicks Let me educate you. This current team has zero weapons available that defenses plan for. Tate- Washed Shep- OUT and average Barkley- OUT for year Engram- AVG Slayton- #2

I get the sentiment, I just disagree with it. When players aren't put in positions to succeed, they don't look good. With Engram, Slayton, and Tate, they need to be schemed open, and the offense isn't doing that. In Dallas, Garrett created a scheme that required WRs to get open on their own, and they were able to do that. He's not adjusting to the personnel in NY.

Don't get me wrong, I believe there's a talent issue on the team (and we need a new GM), but I don't think the coaching staff is helping them on offense.

The game was lost because Graham decided to blitz on the seam pass TD to Kupp. The Giants D was doing a good job of containing the Rams. Instead of playing fundamental football, Graham dials up a blitz there leaving the middle of the field wide open. The result was the result.

You are in utter and complete denial about how bad this team is.

-We're dealing with a whole new coaching staff
-A sophomore QB who is still in the curing process
-We have several talent deficient position groups, WR is glaring now, it wasn't in August.

Coach Judge (and staff) are building this plane while it's flying. I still think this staff has an excellent chance to build a great team, but it won't be this year.
-The cupboard seems bare, but several players haven't panned out. The GM has to bet on the come, and I think he's been doing that. He can't control all the results.

also need to look at the offensive assistant coaches.

Kitchens got promoted to HC in Cleveland because of how good an assistant coach he was, including coaching TEs. Notice how Engram isn't improving under Kitchens?

Burns was a legend at Alabama. But some guy signed off the street is already getting more carries than Wayne Gallman.

This team is carrying only four WRs and two of them were waived recently.

In comment 14996776 AdamBrag said:

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In comment 14996707 Eric from BBI said: Quote: 𝗟𝗮𝘄𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗧𝘆𝗻𝗲𝘀 @lt4kicks Let me educate you. This current team has zero weapons available that defenses plan for. Tate- Washed Shep- OUT and average Barkley- OUT for year Engram- AVG Slayton- #2 I get the sentiment, I just disagree with it. When players aren't put in positions to succeed, they don't look good. With Engram, Slayton, and Tate, they need to be schemed open, and the offense isn't doing that. In Dallas, Garrett created a scheme that required WRs to get open on their own, and they were able to do that. He's not adjusting to the personnel in NY. Don't get me wrong, I believe there's a talent issue on the team (and we need a new GM), but I don't think the coaching staff is helping them on offense.

This doesn't really make sense. If the defense is playing zone then you scheme to get into gaps. If its a man-to-man, then yes its imperative for the WR to win the matchup. You try to get players into 1-on-1 matchups with no help (from over the top or underneath) so they can win them. This is why a QB is always trying to find the WR who only has a single matchup.

This is the way everyone does it. There are variations of this, but in general this is what happens

misplaced at best.

1) The Oline is a major work in progress. They are still figuring things out. They did look better for a lot of yesterday.
2) While the Oline has struggled that has meant the running game has also struggled. If you cannot run you become one dimensional.
3) Without the run the one dimensional aspect becomes the pass and that means exposing your young QB to pressure and hits while trowing to guys who wouldn't be one some teams and sure as hell would not be starting.
4) The Oline struggle lead to the Giants carrying 4 TE's and honestly 3 of them are average blockers and the 4th might as well be a ghost.

The offense really can't do much until the Oline can get its act together and yesterday was a step forward. To be honest it was way better than I expected.

A few areas that need to change-
a) We need to stop running the fake handoff mis direction to the left while bringing one of the TE's from the left to the right with Jones rolling right as NOBODY is falling for it. All you do is run that TE right into the stay at home DE while the LB or CB to that side charges Jones. Until we prove we can run consistently we can't waste that kind of play.
b) The Giants need to send Ratley or Board deep and throw to them once or twice just to keep defenses honest. Nobody is looking deep except if Slayton is running. We can't make 11 and 12 play drives as we just leave ourselves open to possible misatkes and penalties. We are not the 89 or 90 Giants who would just wear defenses down play after play controlling the clock.
c) If Penny is on the roster he needs to be on the field. If not then he needs to go. Waste of a roster spot if you are never using a FB.
d) The Giants had multiple chances to turn the game around offensively and we just couldn't make the catch or the block or make a guy miss when we needed it.


** One thing on Jones and some people here and even the media is the tired use of locking on or not going through his progressions. Many here have no clue what they are talking about. Soem read what SY wrote (not knocking SY at all)and then state stuff like they know what is happening. Then yesterday to hear Mark Schlereth (stink was his nickname and it fits)talk non stop about Jones locking on was just too much. Case in point:

The first time he mentioned it associated to a play in yesterdays game was when Jones rolled left (short side of teh field) and ended up getting sacked. Stink then says Jones locked on and by the time he started to go through his progressions he got sacked. He then pointed out teh sack was on Jones. #1- the replay showed Jones rolling left to the short side of the field with ZERO receiving options to that side. Tate ran a nothing route (literally did nothing) and there were at least 3 Rams in his area. The next closest receiver was in the middle of the field which would be back to Jones's right and that person was double covered and by position on the field impossible for Jones to throw to anyway. The only thing Jones could have done is throw the ball down the field out of bounds. NOTHING was happening on that play!

Jones does lock on to the short receiver (Engram, Tate and sometimes slayton or the back) a bit much but some of that is from design and a knowing that you aren't getting much time to throw. If he were forcing deeper throws down the middle of the field and getting picked off I would be more worried. What needs to happen is we have to start sending someone deep down the sideline and throw to them, just to start getting the CB's and safeties to back off a tad.

prolonged absence. Garrett will get better as Giants get better. Gall an deserves more carries. We don’t have a TE like Whitten, although no one has ever figured out EE, and how to utilize him. Garrett adopted his offense to a Giants offense featuring SQ. That takes time to change.

So is it on Garett, no not yet. #8 is problematic. He does need to move more on rollouts although it does look like he is getting more time under center which he needs. He also needs reliable receivers and some who can stretch the field vertically. Garrett needs that as his offense fits that.


So everyone is learning especially.ly ‘O’ line. This was perfectly predictable given new coaches, young players, and absent practice time. First half of season there was one or two games we might win.

Let’s see if the defense was for real on Sunday and see if our O improves over second quarter of season. So far I’m seeing what I expected, except for #8, he is worrisome.

We have FOUR on the roster right now.

I doubt THREE of these four will even be on the team next year.

Doesn't seem to make much sense.

that Jason Garrett isn't being helped by the talent he has to work with, why not acknowledge that he had a ton of talent to work with in Dallas? He also had playcalling taken away from him.

Pat Shurmur had as little, maybe even less talent to work with, but the NYG were 19th in offense. Jones looks like he has regressed markedly, which is concerning. Coaches get paid too.

Using Kitchens getting a HC job based on his TE coaching is a little spurious given how piss poor Cleveland's decision-making has been. EVERYONE expected him to be a HC disaster, everyone except the CLE FO.

could have a few gripes, all in all I think Garrett's play calling has been fine. We are pretty undermanned right now at the skill positions, and the OL is still coming together after no preseason and hardly any practices with a brand new staff.

Jason Garrett is not one of the reasons we are 0-4.

And it's not Jason Garrett.. not that he isn't a problem.. but the biggest problem is talent. We don't have any. How many OC are we. Going to change? Maybe just maybe some of these guys suck and BBI overestimate weekday DG has provided.

In comment 14996850 ryanmkeane said:

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could have a few gripes, all in all I think Garrett's play calling has been fine. We are pretty undermanned right now at the skill positions, and the OL is still coming together after no preseason and hardly any practices with a brand new staff. Jason Garrett is not one of the reasons we are 0-4.

We've scored 3 TD's in 4 games. Maybe Jason Garrett isn't THE reason, but he is certainly one of them.

Pat Shurmur had the same cast of characters, his OL was worse, but had far more production. Jones has regressed noticably.

In comment 14996849 Section331 said:

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that Jason Garrett isn't being helped by the talent he has to work with, why not acknowledge that he had a ton of talent to work with in Dallas? He also had playcalling taken away from him. Pat Shurmur had as little, maybe even less talent to work with, but the NYG were 19th in offense. Jones looks like he has regressed markedly, which is concerning. Coaches get paid too. Using Kitchens getting a HC job based on his TE coaching is a little spurious given how piss poor Cleveland's decision-making has been. EVERYONE expected him to be a HC disaster, everyone except the CLE FO.

#1... we can flip that argument completely around too. It works both ways. Garrett didn't forget how to coach.

#2... Shurmur had Saquon Barkley, who improved as the year progressed. He was the only player on this team who scared the opposition, even when he was hurt. The fact that you can't recognize the impact of his loss is weird.

#3... "spurious"... Kitchens was regarded as a top notch TEs coach. Why would that change? Weird comment.

we had posters calling Graham a "disaster" after the 49ers game. Saying we should have never hired him, he sucks, blah blah.

New schemes take time. We've seen glimpses of the defense coming together as a unit, and they really put a nice "whole" game together against the Rams, which was probably their toughest test.

The offense is going to take time, whether you want to admit it or not. And because of the injuries, it might take more time than expected. It's just reality.

it's becoming clear as time goes on that posters who call for change aren't willing to live with he growing pains of change. They want change, and then immediately want awesome results.

The NFL unfortunately doesn't work that way, we are no different than any of the other teams that did this during the rebuilding/changing schemes phase.

And now, with Barkley out, the Covid offseason, etc...it might just take more time than excepted. Not sure what else to say about this.

coaches that is. They were unprepared to capitalize they either made no adjustments or poor adjustments and the team seemed flat. That was not the case yesterday in my opinion. Except for the rams first drive, I liked what I saw (well that and the final score). I liked that they said hell yeah we're gonna run on first down and they picked up 2 to 4 yards(I don't recall seeing a TFL on one of those run plays). I liked that they had some misdirection plays in there (an appropriately small amount I felt). I agree with the fact that Lewis should not be in on that WR screen play and I agree with the fact that Penny must have photos of somebody to still be on this team (are they waiting to 'spring' a surprise fullback handoff that goes for 9 yards on some unsuspecting opponent?!). I NEVER agree with Greg and I did it on two replies in one post!

In comment 14996919 ryanmkeane said:

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it's becoming clear as time goes on that posters who call for change aren't willing to live with he growing pains of change. They want change, and then immediately want awesome results. The NFL unfortunately doesn't work that way, we are no different than any of the other teams that did this during the rebuilding/changing schemes phase. And now, with Barkley out, the Covid offseason, etc...it might just take more time than excepted. Not sure what else to say about this.

This is a very accurate statement. People screaming for another change think a change creates immediate results. We are effectively at the end of preseason now (4 games) and people want change again. I firmly believe if we draft Lawrence, then by the end of next year they will want us to draft the next "can't miss" QB.

at the doorstep of Shurmur and poor coaching. And even suggesting that replacing him should easily add at least a few more wins in 2020.

Now Garrett is the current punching bag for posters that really have no idea whether either coach is good or bad at running an offense for the NYG.

Not supporting either guy but I do know that you all don’t know.

we all witnessed Pat Shurmur's coaching for 2 years. Bad game prep, horrific, and I do mean horrific, in game management with timeouts, play calls, decisions.....there's a reason he's considered one of the worst head coaches in NFL history. He was that bad.

Are we now playing revisionist history with Pat Shurmur? He was a truly horrible head coach.

In comment 14996881 Eric from BBI said:

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#1... we can flip that argument completely around too. It works both ways. Garrett didn't forget how to coach.

Not sure Garrett ever really knew how to coach in the first place

manage timeouts and game adjustments for the first 4 games compared to Shurmur's timeouts and game management....they are on two different stratospheres. We could be 0-6 and I won't give a shit. One guy knows how to handle a game, the other doesn't.

In comment 14996725 Greg from LI said:

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And certainly haven't seen anything to make me think any better of him since. Watch Bobby Skinner's OL breakdown from last week and he describes in detail how poor play design is making the OL look even worse than they're actually playing. Noticed this yesterday too - in the second half, they tried to run some kind of a screen to a WR or TE (can't remember now). Problem was, the play relied on Dion Lewis to be a lead blocker. He was predictably run over and the play went for a loss. As soon as I noticed that on the replay, I couldn't believe that they ran that play with Lewis on the field. Just stupid.

Lewis completely whiffed on his block on that play, he didn't get run over he just missed