2nd time in 3 weeks we saw a team with multipe all-pro players mssing and we lost.. How can the Cowboys have 8 OL that are better than our best OL? How come backup RBs look so good against us and at times better than our 2nd overall pick.. especially when we have invested so heavily in our DL..
Can someone please explain how are we any better than we were 3 years ago? He really needs to go.. Dallas probably has a better OL talent on their practice squad team than we have on starters.. after all these investments..
Yeah but the same dufus who hired him will be hiring the next GM unfortunately
12 more weeks? why? we lost to a team today that was missing more all-pro talent on their OL than we have on our entire roster of the last 3 years combined..
9-30 i believe as a GM.
Nope.. the 0-5 record is not indicative of the GM at all..
Quote:
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
9-30 i believe as a GM.
9-28 to be exact but yes losing today is on him and to even ask the question is asinine.
Jones under pressure all day because his hogmollies cant pass protect is on him, slayton being the only weapon on offense is on him, the lack of pass rush is on him, the DL which DG put tremendous resources to fix with draft picks and FA and got run all over today is on him .
He has been here 3 years and had 3 top 6 1st round picks, numerous high draft picks, spent millions of dollars and somehow this team is worse then the one he inherited . Worst GM in football
Organization needs a major overhaul.
We have blown so many number 1 picks over the past 8 years that should be the cornerstone of this team
It feels like the late 60’s and 70’s all over again.
Wow, just wow. No you’re right, it’s a talented. Go back into hiding.
Quote:
In comment 15005146 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
9-30 i believe as a GM.
9-28 to be exact but yes losing today is on him and to even ask the question is asinine.
Jones under pressure all day because his hogmollies cant pass protect is on him, slayton being the only weapon on offense is on him, the lack of pass rush is on him, the DL which DG put tremendous resources to fix with draft picks and FA and got run all over today is on him .
He has been here 3 years and had 3 top 6 1st round picks, numerous high draft picks, spent millions of dollars and somehow this team is worse then the one he inherited . Worst GM in football
+1.
Yesterday
I had you and Dep arguing with me that trading for Russell Wilson for three firsts made no sense because we still had Eli. You’re the last person on this board who I want to hear defend dave Gettleman
Quote:
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
I had you and Dep arguing with me that trading for Russell Wilson for three firsts made no sense because we still had Eli. You’re the last person on this board who I want to hear defend dave Gettleman
He’s the worst poster on this board. There’s an entire thread about him. No reason to argue with him. He’ll revert back into hiding just like last year (and the past 4 weeks)
Quote:
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
Wow, just wow. No you’re right, it’s a talented. Go back into hiding.
I've been hiding?? WTF?
Did we lose today because of the GM? Or do you sleep with the pitchfork in your fucking bed, Chief?
Quote:
In comment 15005146 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
I had you and Dep arguing with me that trading for Russell Wilson for three firsts made no sense because we still had Eli. You’re the last person on this board who I want to hear defend dave Gettleman
He’s the worst poster on this board. There’s an entire thread about him. No reason to argue with him. He’ll revert back into hiding just like last year (and the past 4 weeks)
show me where I haven't been on the board the past four weeks you lying piece of shit. You want to try and prove that, Governor?
Of course it is.
Nearly all these games are won before they are played based on the talent that is assembled.
+1 ... some of the no calls were pathetic.
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The Number of Officiating Oddities Was of the Charts - 8:48 pm - 9:08 pm - 25 posts
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RIP Phil in LA - 10/2/2020 2:23 pm - 1:08 pm - 268 posts
NFT: Brian Cashmen - 10/10/2020 9:43 am - 12:00 pm - 39 posts
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I still think Tae Crowder Intercepted that ball last Sunday - 10/6/2020 3:15 pm - 10/8/2020 11:48 am - 20 posts
NGT: Jets to start QB Joe Flacco on Sunday - 10/7/2020 12:09 pm - 10/8/2020 11:43 am - 42 posts
NFT: Game 3 ALDS Rays vs. Yankees GDT 7:10PM - 10/7/2020 4:37 pm - 10/8/2020 11:01 am - 178 posts
Fucking imbecile
Quote:
In comment 15005219 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
In comment 15005146 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
I had you and Dep arguing with me that trading for Russell Wilson for three firsts made no sense because we still had Eli. You’re the last person on this board who I want to hear defend dave Gettleman
He’s the worst poster on this board. There’s an entire thread about him. No reason to argue with him. He’ll revert back into hiding just like last year (and the past 4 weeks)
show me where I haven't been on the board the past four weeks you lying piece of shit. You want to try and prove that, Governor?
You have disappeared from every single thread discussing the state of this team or a game after yet another offseason of profanity laced tirades against any poster questioning the organization. This is the first place you actually engaged again. Ain’t hard to prove, all you gotta do is search your name.
There’s literally an entire thread from 3 weeks ago addressing how awful of a poster you are, isn’t that embarrassing to you? Generally I wouldn’t engage directly with you because you aren’t worth the time, but as a fellow giants fan and trying to extend an olive branch here, just trying to let you know how embarrassing it is for you.
Quote:
In comment 15005146 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
I had you and Dep arguing with me that trading for Russell Wilson for three firsts made no sense because we still had Eli. You’re the last person on this board who I want to hear defend dave Gettleman
He’s the worst poster on this board. There’s an entire thread about him. No reason to argue with him. He’ll revert back into hiding just like last year (and the past 4 weeks)
The last thing I need to hear right now is FMIC defending dave Gettleman.
Quote:
In comment 15005219 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
In comment 15005146 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
I had you and Dep arguing with me that trading for Russell Wilson for three firsts made no sense because we still had Eli. You’re the last person on this board who I want to hear defend dave Gettleman
He’s the worst poster on this board. There’s an entire thread about him. No reason to argue with him. He’ll revert back into hiding just like last year (and the past 4 weeks)
The last thing I need to hear right now is FMIC defending dave Gettleman.
I would like to hear him out.. but so far all he has said is how team's wins and losses are not indicative of GM..
You killed anyone who criticized the dumb ass idea of retooling around a cooked Eli Manning for 2 years. This is a large reason why we are when’re we are
Post of the Year candidate.
I’ll say this, I really like Judge. I’d love a young GM who shares his philosophy.
I've said repeatedly that Gettleman has made some poor moves. But that he also inherited a team that was in a terrible state.
Are you really saying that the record of a team is the indicator of if a GM is doing well or not?? Funny, because Yankee fans want their GM run out of town.
I said that this year was a critical one in if the team is heading in the right direction. If we miss the playoffs and are at the bottom of the league again - he needs to go, not because of the record but because after three years, we still aren't in a competitive position.
Please, at this point just stop. At least own up to it and be honest. Posters aren't imagining it.
Quote:
where I've defended Gettleman
Post of the Year candidate.
How does that compare to your post of the 2010-ish era that talks about Snyder doing a great job in Washington?
Are we looking at having the same hardware?
Quote:
where I've defended Gettleman
Post of the Year candidate.
I just want to second this...
Quote:
where I've defended Gettleman
Please, at this point just stop. At least own up to it and be honest. Posters aren't imagining it.
Hey fuckhead. You said I've disappeared for the last 4 weeks. Want to prove that first?
Quote:
where I've defended Gettleman
Post of the Year candidate.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I disagree with Britt a lot, but at least he has integrity to come back and stand by his word.
He probably never should have been hired. The biggest problem on the Giants is that ownership continues to hire former employees as GMs. They refuse to look outside the organization. Gettleman was anointed by Accorsi and that was enough for Mara.
My guess is that if this continues, he'll retire.
Quote:
In comment 15005279 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
where I've defended Gettleman
Post of the Year candidate.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I disagree with Britt a lot, but at least he has integrity to come back and stand by his word.
so stand by your word and show where I've been off the board for the past 4 weeks. Should be really easy to do
So, it's going to be another three-year rebuilding project; another three years of getting blown out, game after game.
Another three years of being essentially eliminated from post-season contention by October.
This is fucking ridiculous. It really is.
Quote:
In comment 15005279 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
where I've defended Gettleman
Please, at this point just stop. At least own up to it and be honest. Posters aren't imagining it.
Hey fuckhead. You said I've disappeared for the last 4 weeks. Want to prove that first?
Of course, you already posted it. Tonight is the first time you came back into a thread discussing the state of the team since the last week of the offseason. Again, it's not hard to do. Posting about Brian Cashman or some other menial shit isn't speaking with the same bravado you did all offseason.
Listen, I am really not trying to be a dick here, as a fellow Giants fan and poster, I am simply conveying that it is just embarrassing at this point. I feel pity for you more than anything confrontational at this point.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I disagree with Britt a lot, but at least he has integrity to come back and stand by his word.
Yeah, you can't reconcile that one. There isn't a bigger David Alan Gettleman supporter on this board than FMiC.
So about a 4 minute job.
Not a lot of billable hours for that project.
I've been on over 60 threads in the past week alone.
Tonight is the firs time I'm talking about the state of the team??
Fuck off.
I've been on over 60 threads in the past week alone.
Tonight is the firs time I'm talking about the state of the team??
Fuck off.
Can't say I didn't try...oh well, best of luck to you.
If you're going to do that then step the fuck up and prove it! Otherwise, be a man and admit you're wrong. That is only the right thing to do.
don't confuse not shitting on the guy at every possible moment with defending him. When people say he's never been a good GM, I point them to his record in Carolina and that he's their most successful GM ever. When people say he shits on analytics, I've pointed to him putting the system in place in Carolina.
I've said a lot that he's made some poor moves, especailly in FA and that this year was critical in evaluating him. People don't want to hear that though.
Look at Lax Counsel - the fucking imbecile claims I haven't discussed the team in 4 weeks. Just last week, I was on over 60 threads. Do I really need to go back 4 weeks??
With Gettleman, you either have a pitchfork and think the guy is the worst thing ever, or you are a ardent supporter of him.
I trust you know the difference here. When you have a group of posters calling themselves "realists" and their fix to the team is simply to get rid of Gettleman and Jones that should tell you what you need to know.
Dude....
Quote:
where I've defended Gettleman
Dude....
lol
They're so frustrated that they change everything too often and it's like starting over from square 1 every time they turn over management and key players.
George Young started out fast in '79 picking Simms and '80 CB Mark Haynes (twice All Pro, three time Pro Bowl.
Then in '81 came Taylor. Joe Morris 2nd round '82 (one All Pro, two time PB) was our RB for the first SB team. Another piece of the defense with Leonard Marshall 2nd round '83.
Then in '84 came Carl Banks, a little controversial since LB was already strongest position. In '85 he finally missed in drafting a really good starter in rounds 1 or 2, but by picking Bavaro in 4th round we let 1985 slide.
The climax of Young's drafting came in 1986, year of first Super Bowl win. Giants had a No. 1, a No. 3 and four second rounders and he drafted all defense, adding Mark Collins, Erik Howard and Pepper Johnson. Three misses out of the six not bad considering quality haul.
Then for his last nine years he drafted offense with every first round pick (including 1993 1st round pick wasted on the supplemental draft.)
Mark Ingram (in the first round!) '87
Eric Moore
Brian Williams
Rodney Hampton
Jarrod Bunch
The (infamous) Derek Brown
Supplemental Pick in '93
Thomas Lewis
Tyrone Wheatley
In the 2nd and 3rd round of those drafts, he managed to find defensive starters in Greg Jackson (9 years roster),
Phillippi Sparks (7 years)
Jesse Armstead (in 8th round, 5 time Pro Bowl)
Jason Sehorn
Michael Strahan (2nd round '93)
As the team went downhill after 90 SuperBowl win, incredibly frustrated with Young drafting all offense, and not very well.
So Gettleman may start getting lucky.
If you keep changing every few years, I think that's worse than sticking with someone going through a bad spell.
Given how many years of evidence we have, it's certainly both.
I absolutely love it.
He simply hasn't been good at drafting. If 3 drafts, each with high picks, aren't enough for you to turn the team around, then you are not a very good GM. Barely 1 or 2 players on this roster aren't his, I don't know how some fans can still find one excuse after another to defend him.
But look at what he has wrought. 3 top 10 picks, 3 free agent signing periods. Hiring Shurmur.
This is a results oriented business.
Hindsight being 20/20 Acorsi was a genius.
All of us live and die with this team and the Maras have made a living off of that loyalty. I believe that they want to rebuild the Giants. I believe that Mara and Tisch want to deliver a better product to their fans. I just don’t believe they know how—and without a Pete Rozelle or a lucky break like Tom Coughlin coming along to rescue them I fear that the losing continues and that Jones, Thomas, Baker, Hernandez, and so on become just another in a long line of failed promises.
Same. That should be a good read.
Me too actually.
All of us live and die with this team and the Maras have made a living off of that loyalty. I believe that they want to rebuild the Giants. I believe that Mara and Tisch want to deliver a better product to their fans. I just don’t believe they know how—and without a Pete Rozelle or a lucky break like Tom Coughlin coming along to rescue them I fear that the losing continues and that Jones, Thomas, Baker, Hernandez, and so on become just another in a long line of failed promises.
Gettleman certainly thought he was fixing the problem. No dice.
How much of recent NY Giants culture problems lie with Dave Gettleman? - ( New Window )
Quote:
I love you. I'm one of your biggest fans. But, do you really not believe you have been one of Gettleman's bigger supporters? These days, that isn't even saying all that much. Maybe you haven't done much to defend his job with the Giants directly. But, is isn't it fair to say you've at least defended what he did in Carolina?
don't confuse not shitting on the guy at every possible moment with defending him. When people say he's never been a good GM, I point them to his record in Carolina and that he's their most successful GM ever. When people say he shits on analytics, I've pointed to him putting the system in place in Carolina.
I've said a lot that he's made some poor moves, especailly in FA and that this year was critical in evaluating him. People don't want to hear that though.
Look at Lax Counsel - the fucking imbecile claims I haven't discussed the team in 4 weeks. Just last week, I was on over 60 threads. Do I really need to go back 4 weeks??
With Gettleman, you either have a pitchfork and think the guy is the worst thing ever, or you are a ardent supporter of him.
I trust you know the difference here. When you have a group of posters calling themselves "realists" and their fix to the team is simply to get rid of Gettleman and Jones that should tell you what you need to know.
I am still on the fence for whether we should fire him or not. I will say that after picking 3 straight years in the top of the draft, I would expect better talent than 3 years ago, not the same or worse. I think that is a fair expectation. The rest of this season is critical at 2 positions, in my opinion. QB and OL. Those are the 2 positions that will make or break the franchise moving forward. To that end, I think we need to see Lemieux and Peart. If they show anything, there is both reason to be optimistic the OL will be better next year and as a residual we can be optimistic for better QB play and a better running game. If they suck, we are in bad shape and it makes me worried about moving forward with Jones. IF they don't play at all, I think there will still be too many question marks at QB and OL and Gettleman or the next GM will have their hands full with a critical off season.
They're so frustrated that they change everything too often and it's like starting over from square 1 every time they turn over management and key players.
George Young started out fast in '79 picking Simms and '80 CB Mark Haynes (twice All Pro, three time Pro Bowl.
Then in '81 came Taylor. Joe Morris 2nd round '82 (one All Pro, two time PB) was our RB for the first SB team. Another piece of the defense with Leonard Marshall 2nd round '83.
Then in '84 came Carl Banks, a little controversial since LB was already strongest position. In '85 he finally missed in drafting a really good starter in rounds 1 or 2, but by picking Bavaro in 4th round we let 1985 slide.
The climax of Young's drafting came in 1986, year of first Super Bowl win. Giants had a No. 1, a No. 3 and four second rounders and he drafted all defense, adding Mark Collins, Erik Howard and Pepper Johnson. Three misses out of the six not bad considering quality haul.
Then for his last nine years he drafted offense with every first round pick (including 1993 1st round pick wasted on the supplemental draft.)
Mark Ingram (in the first round!) '87
Eric Moore
Brian Williams
Rodney Hampton
Jarrod Bunch
The (infamous) Derek Brown
Supplemental Pick in '93
Thomas Lewis
Tyrone Wheatley
In the 2nd and 3rd round of those drafts, he managed to find defensive starters in Greg Jackson (9 years roster),
Phillippi Sparks (7 years)
Jesse Armstead (in 8th round, 5 time Pro Bowl)
Jason Sehorn
Michael Strahan (2nd round '93)
As the team went downhill after 90 SuperBowl win, incredibly frustrated with Young drafting all offense, and not very well.
So Gettleman may start getting lucky.
If you keep changing every few years, I think that's worse than sticking with someone going through a bad spell.
Quote:
like Bills (until this year), Browns, Jets, Redskins.
They're so frustrated that they change everything too often and it's like starting over from square 1 every time they turn over management and key players.
George Young started out fast in '79 picking Simms and '80 CB Mark Haynes (twice All Pro, three time Pro Bowl.
Then in '81 came Taylor. Joe Morris 2nd round '82 (one All Pro, two time PB) was our RB for the first SB team. Another piece of the defense with Leonard Marshall 2nd round '83.
Then in '84 came Carl Banks, a little controversial since LB was already strongest position. In '85 he finally missed in drafting a really good starter in rounds 1 or 2, but by picking Bavaro in 4th round we let 1985 slide.
The climax of Young's drafting came in 1986, year of first Super Bowl win. Giants had a No. 1, a No. 3 and four second rounders and he drafted all defense, adding Mark Collins, Erik Howard and Pepper Johnson. Three misses out of the six not bad considering quality haul.
Then for his last nine years he drafted offense with every first round pick (including 1993 1st round pick wasted on the supplemental draft.)
Mark Ingram (in the first round!) '87
Eric Moore
Brian Williams
Rodney Hampton
Jarrod Bunch
The (infamous) Derek Brown
Supplemental Pick in '93
Thomas Lewis
Tyrone Wheatley
In the 2nd and 3rd round of those drafts, he managed to find defensive starters in Greg Jackson (9 years roster),
Phillippi Sparks (7 years)
Jesse Armstead (in 8th round, 5 time Pro Bowl)
Jason Sehorn
Michael Strahan (2nd round '93)
As the team went downhill after 90 SuperBowl win, incredibly frustrated with Young drafting all offense, and not very well.
So Gettleman may start getting lucky.
If you keep changing every few years, I think that's worse than sticking with someone going through a bad spell.
I'm not sure the point. Young's downfall wasn't his drafting but his inability to adapt to the new world of FA and salary cap.
I wouldn’t have gone with Eric Dorsey as a 1st round pick though.
He simply hasn't been good at drafting. If 3 drafts, each with high picks, aren't enough for you to turn the team around, then you are not a very good GM. Barely 1 or 2 players on this roster aren't his, I don't know how some fans can still find one excuse after another to defend him.
This is why I hope the next GM doesn't really come from a scouting background. It was obvious that he was approaching the job from that perspective and you need to have humility in understanding that you're guessing on these picks/signings. You're dealing with a range of outcomes and somebody with a background in economics, data or some sort of abstract science is more equipped to make these decisions in the modern competitive landscape.
This isn't to say that a person with a scouting background wouldn't make a great GM, there are plenty examples that support that, ie. Newsome and Ballard. But their actions suggest that they are able to think in that way in their decision making process. Gettleman doesn't. The Leonard Williams trade is the perfect embodiment of why he failed. Leonard Williams is a very good player, so Gettleman got him without even thinking about all the variables involved in that transaction. See ball, get ball. Not to open up that can of worms but the Saquan pick is another example. We were sitting on a lottery ticket with that 2nd pick and cashed it out on a single RB.
Quote:
In comment 15005146 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
I had you and Dep arguing with me that trading for Russell Wilson for three firsts made no sense because we still had Eli. You’re the last person on this board who I want to hear defend dave Gettleman
He’s the worst poster on this board. There’s an entire thread about him. No reason to argue with him. He’ll revert back into hiding just like last year (and the past 4 weeks)
He is also one of the biggest liar's on this board. I recall I said I thought Sam Darnold was going to be a good QB. He changed what I said to suggests I said Darnold was going to be elite/or generational. He'll weasel anything you say so he can protect DG.
For those of us who hated DG's outlook of trying to win right away-- he throws insults at the posters. OFC if other posters that defend DG and say he was trying to win in year 1, FMIC doesn't care because those posts are defending DG.
When you criticized the Barkley pick - - what does he do? He throws insults.
I recall the poster McL creating a thread with links why he thought the OLINE was os poor last year-- and what does FMIC do? He continually went after MCL with insults.
With this guy-- it's "defend DG at all costs."
Quote:
where I've defended Gettleman
You killed anyone who criticized the dumb ass idea of retooling around a cooked Eli Manning for 2 years. This is a large reason why we are when’re we are
100%. He's been the biggest Gettleman fluffer in the world. Ive received numerous insults for simply being objective about the direction of this franchise. I generally dont comment on his nonsense anymore because his arrogance in being wrong about literally everything Giants for the past 3 years is clearly a sign of mental illness. But now pretending he hasn't defended Gettleman is too much.
Quote:
blindly. Don't tell me DG didn't personally see these top picks or at least watch countless tapes on them.
He simply hasn't been good at drafting. If 3 drafts, each with high picks, aren't enough for you to turn the team around, then you are not a very good GM. Barely 1 or 2 players on this roster aren't his, I don't know how some fans can still find one excuse after another to defend him.
This is why I hope the next GM doesn't really come from a scouting background. It was obvious that he was approaching the job from that perspective and you need to have humility in understanding that you're guessing on these picks/signings. You're dealing with a range of outcomes and somebody with a background in economics, data or some sort of abstract science is more equipped to make these decisions in the modern competitive landscape.
This isn't to say that a person with a scouting background wouldn't make a great GM, there are plenty examples that support that, ie. Newsome and Ballard. But their actions suggest that they are able to think in that way in their decision making process. Gettleman doesn't. The Leonard Williams trade is the perfect embodiment of why he failed. Leonard Williams is a very good player, so Gettleman got him without even thinking about all the variables involved in that transaction. See ball, get ball. Not to open up that can of worms but the Saquan pick is another example. We were sitting on a lottery ticket with that 2nd pick and cashed it out on a single RB.
Good post Aces..
Quote:
In comment 15005219 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
In comment 15005146 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
I had you and Dep arguing with me that trading for Russell Wilson for three firsts made no sense because we still had Eli. You’re the last person on this board who I want to hear defend dave Gettleman
He’s the worst poster on this board. There’s an entire thread about him. No reason to argue with him. He’ll revert back into hiding just like last year (and the past 4 weeks)
He is also one of the biggest liar's on this board. I recall I said I thought Sam Darnold was going to be a good QB. He changed what I said to suggests I said Darnold was going to be elite/or generational. He'll weasel anything you say so he can protect DG.
For those of us who hated DG's outlook of trying to win right away-- he throws insults at the posters. OFC if other posters that defend DG and say he was trying to win in year 1, FMIC doesn't care because those posts are defending DG.
When you criticized the Barkley pick - - what does he do? He throws insults.
I recall the poster McL creating a thread with links why he thought the OLINE was os poor last year-- and what does FMIC do? He continually went after MCL with insults.
With this guy-- it's "defend DG at all costs."
Ironically, several posts earlier hes now asking folks to produce evidence of his defense of DG. It's like asking us to produce evidence that the Pope is Catholic...
Quote:
In comment 15005219 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
In comment 15005146 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
I had you and Dep arguing with me that trading for Russell Wilson for three firsts made no sense because we still had Eli. You’re the last person on this board who I want to hear defend dave Gettleman
He’s the worst poster on this board. There’s an entire thread about him. No reason to argue with him. He’ll revert back into hiding just like last year (and the past 4 weeks)
He is also one of the biggest liar's on this board. I recall I said I thought Sam Darnold was going to be a good QB. He changed what I said to suggests I said Darnold was going to be elite/or generational. He'll weasel anything you say so he can protect DG.
For those of us who hated DG's outlook of trying to win right away-- he throws insults at the posters. OFC if other posters that defend DG and say he was trying to win in year 1, FMIC doesn't care because those posts are defending DG.
When you criticized the Barkley pick - - what does he do? He throws insults.
I recall the poster McL creating a thread with links why he thought the OLINE was os poor last year-- and what does FMIC do? He continually went after MCL with insults.
With this guy-- it's "defend DG at all costs."
The fact that he has the balls to double down on DGs awful resume is actually impressive.
If you're going to do that then step the fuck up and prove it! Otherwise, be a man and admit you're wrong. That is only the right thing to do.
Why should anyone do that??
You asked me to provide evidence of when I said that during Dg's 1st year I would have drafted gotten FA's Hubbard and Fulton then gone after SY's guy of Braden Smith. I finally found the posts I made and replied and then you say nothing.
What's the point with posters like you?? You wear your New York Giants skirt and no matter what it's "Yay Team!"
No one owes you nothing - especially a cheerleader of a fan. If you think so many are lying then go ahead and pout.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Upcoming post on DG.
Same. That should be a good read.
Quote:
In comment 15005390 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Upcoming post on DG.
Same. That should be a good read.
As a caveat, I had to use PFF rankings, which I don't love but they are the only tool to gauge player vs. player value. Reese was bad, but DG has been even worse, it's really sickening, but we're 0-5, so you know that. I should have it up tomorrow.
Looking forward to it. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
Quote:
where I've defended Gettleman
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's got to be the leading post for Post of the Year.
I had to read it at least 20X to make sure I wasn't misreading what he wrote.
So many terrible decisions and increasingly looks as though Jones is JAG. At least 3 games in the final drive to win or tie and we can’t make the play. As much as I want to like this kid to succeed, I’m afraid he’s not the guy.
The faster he is fired the better.
Quote:
A bunch of you have made claims about FMiC's posting and he asked for evidence of that.
If you're going to do that then step the fuck up and prove it! Otherwise, be a man and admit you're wrong. That is only the right thing to do.
Why should anyone do that??
You asked me to provide evidence of when I said that during Dg's 1st year I would have drafted gotten FA's Hubbard and Fulton then gone after SY's guy of Braden Smith. I finally found the posts I made and replied and then you say nothing.
What's the point with posters like you?? You wear your New York Giants skirt and no matter what it's "Yay Team!"
No one owes you nothing - especially a cheerleader of a fan. If you think so many are lying then go ahead and pout.
Because in any Message Board if you make a claim about someone else you should at least be able to back it up.
Why is that a questionable request?
Quote:
A bunch of you have made claims about FMiC's posting and he asked for evidence of that.
If you're going to do that then step the fuck up and prove it! Otherwise, be a man and admit you're wrong. That is only the right thing to do.
Why should anyone do that??
You asked me to provide evidence of when I said that during Dg's 1st year I would have drafted gotten FA's Hubbard and Fulton then gone after SY's guy of Braden Smith. I finally found the posts I made and replied and then you say nothing.
What's the point with posters like you?? You wear your New York Giants skirt and no matter what it's "Yay Team!"
No one owes you nothing - especially a cheerleader of a fan. If you think so many are lying then go ahead and pout.
I may wear my Giants "Skirt" but at least I don't have sand in my Vagina like you.
Inform us all what would you have done to make a better winning percentage?
Should be easy if I'm a huge supporter of his, right?
What I've done is taken people to task who say he's unqualified to be a GM, has always sucked as a GM, or the analytics schmucks who claim that he shuns analytics.
So he's the challenge - produce posts where I talk about Gettleman being a very good or great GM here in NY. Really shouldn't be too hard, right?
Yo...Les in TO. How goes it?
Quote:
His winning percentage with the Giants is worse than Matt Millen. Let that sink in
Inform us all what would you have done to make a better winning percentage?
Why do you feel the need to defend him? The Millen stat is very eye opening. He’s had all the resources in the world and top 6 picks for three years and were the worst team in the league !
Should be easy if I'm a huge supporter of his, right?
What I've done is taken people to task who say he's unqualified to be a GM, has always sucked as a GM, or the analytics schmucks who claim that he shuns analytics.
So he's the challenge - produce posts where I talk about Gettleman being a very good or great GM here in NY. Really shouldn't be too hard, right?
<<Sigh>> the beat goes on...
Quote:
In comment 15005346 montanagiant said:
Quote:
A bunch of you have made claims about FMiC's posting and he asked for evidence of that.
If you're going to do that then step the fuck up and prove it! Otherwise, be a man and admit you're wrong. That is only the right thing to do.
Why should anyone do that??
You asked me to provide evidence of when I said that during Dg's 1st year I would have drafted gotten FA's Hubbard and Fulton then gone after SY's guy of Braden Smith. I finally found the posts I made and replied and then you say nothing.
What's the point with posters like you?? You wear your New York Giants skirt and no matter what it's "Yay Team!"
No one owes you nothing - especially a cheerleader of a fan. If you think so many are lying then go ahead and pout.
Because in any Message Board if you make a claim about someone else you should at least be able to back it up.
Why is that a questionable request?
I went back on my time to find the post you asked me to prove - I replied and I sent it on the thread you asked. What did I get for it? Nothing. Which is fine but I did it as a courtesy and I got no reply.
Why is it unreasonable to believe that posters may feel that when they make a post they should feel trusted? You can choose to believe that poster or not.
You can call me a liar if you wish. I can care less. Me and you have a bad relationship. I'm sure there are some others on here too you have bad relationships with as I do. No offense - but why should I waste my valuable time to satisfy you? What does it get me to go back and look? Last time I did-- you said nothing and we just went right back on other threads ripping into one another.
For example on here there have ben several people here that have accused FMiC of being a DG defender. Every accuser is lying? They can't be trusted? If they believe their word is good -- why do they need to go back? This board is fun board to talk. You gotta go back and find links on everything that was said previously rather than just make your own decision if that poster is honest or not?
Quote:
very simple ask of shitbirds like giantstock or lax counsel, please produce a post where I've said Gettleman is a very good GM or has made great moves for us.
Should be easy if I'm a huge supporter of his, right?
What I've done is taken people to task who say he's unqualified to be a GM, has always sucked as a GM, or the analytics schmucks who claim that he shuns analytics.
So he's the challenge - produce posts where I talk about Gettleman being a very good or great GM here in NY. Really shouldn't be too hard, right?
<<Sigh>> the beat goes on...
And it will until you back up ridiculous claims. I haven't been on the board for 4 weeks?? Very simple request - but one you can't back up
Quote:
His winning percentage with the Giants is worse than Matt Millen. Let that sink in
Inform us all what would you have done to make a better winning percentage?
If this is all you have in your holster to defend Gettleman's regime, it might be time to sit a few threads out.
Quote:
In comment 15005563 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
very simple ask of shitbirds like giantstock or lax counsel, please produce a post where I've said Gettleman is a very good GM or has made great moves for us.
Should be easy if I'm a huge supporter of his, right?
What I've done is taken people to task who say he's unqualified to be a GM, has always sucked as a GM, or the analytics schmucks who claim that he shuns analytics.
So he's the challenge - produce posts where I talk about Gettleman being a very good or great GM here in NY. Really shouldn't be too hard, right?
<<Sigh>> the beat goes on...
And it will until you back up ridiculous claims. I haven't been on the board for 4 weeks?? Very simple request - but one you can't back up
Prove that you didn't...
Should be easy if I'm a huge supporter of his, right?
What I've done is taken people to task who say he's unqualified to be a GM, has always sucked as a GM, or the analytics schmucks who claim that he shuns analytics.
So he's the challenge - produce posts where I talk about Gettleman being a very good or great GM here in NY. Really shouldn't be too hard, right?
Please. Your play has essentially been this mantra - Gettleman did good work in Carolina, has some good offspring (Brandon Beane), did good work under Accorsi, and we should trust that will eventually convey to Jints Central.
Good luck spinning out of that...
It is like anything else today. If you say someone is bad and someone disagrees with you, they get labelled a "defender" or a "supporter". Again - I'm such a "fan" of DG that it should be very easy to find posts where I'm talking about him being great, right? You do realize that there is a ton of area between someone being comp0lete shit and a marvelous GM, right?
You might not, because you are really fucking dumb, but let's take teh average person.
Quote:
very simple ask of shitbirds like giantstock or lax counsel, please produce a post where I've said Gettleman is a very good GM or has made great moves for us.
Should be easy if I'm a huge supporter of his, right?
What I've done is taken people to task who say he's unqualified to be a GM, has always sucked as a GM, or the analytics schmucks who claim that he shuns analytics.
So he's the challenge - produce posts where I talk about Gettleman being a very good or great GM here in NY. Really shouldn't be too hard, right?
Please. Your play has essentially been this mantra - Gettleman did good work in Carolina, has some good offspring (Brandon Beane), did good work under Accorsi, and we should trust that will eventually convey to Jints Central.
Good luck spinning out of that...
Again - tell me how that translates to me saying he's doing a great job here. Hell, some of you guys mantra has been that he was terrible in Carolina and should never have been hired here. Should that ridiculousness be called out?
Quote:
In comment 15005568 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 15005563 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
very simple ask of shitbirds like giantstock or lax counsel, please produce a post where I've said Gettleman is a very good GM or has made great moves for us.
Should be easy if I'm a huge supporter of his, right?
What I've done is taken people to task who say he's unqualified to be a GM, has always sucked as a GM, or the analytics schmucks who claim that he shuns analytics.
So he's the challenge - produce posts where I talk about Gettleman being a very good or great GM here in NY. Really shouldn't be too hard, right?
<<Sigh>> the beat goes on...
And it will until you back up ridiculous claims. I haven't been on the board for 4 weeks?? Very simple request - but one you can't back up
Prove that you didn't...
LOL - I already did above you fucking imbecile.
Quote:
In comment 15005551 Les in TO said:
Quote:
His winning percentage with the Giants is worse than Matt Millen. Let that sink in
Inform us all what would you have done to make a better winning percentage?
If this is all you have in your holster to defend Gettleman's regime, it might be time to sit a few threads out.
LMAO, I always love it when the putz's claim "We suck" but always lack any real solution...Thanks for proving my point....PUTZ!
Quote:
In comment 15005573 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15005568 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 15005563 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
very simple ask of shitbirds like giantstock or lax counsel, please produce a post where I've said Gettleman is a very good GM or has made great moves for us.
Should be easy if I'm a huge supporter of his, right?
What I've done is taken people to task who say he's unqualified to be a GM, has always sucked as a GM, or the analytics schmucks who claim that he shuns analytics.
So he's the challenge - produce posts where I talk about Gettleman being a very good or great GM here in NY. Really shouldn't be too hard, right?
<<Sigh>> the beat goes on...
And it will until you back up ridiculous claims. I haven't been on the board for 4 weeks?? Very simple request - but one you can't back up
Prove that you didn't...
LOL - I already did above you fucking imbecile.
Living rent free in your head...
You want answers?? No way! He sucks and if you don't want him ridden out of town - you're a "supporter"!!
Quote:
In comment 15005463 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15005346 montanagiant said:
Quote:
A bunch of you have made claims about FMiC's posting and he asked for evidence of that.
If you're going to do that then step the fuck up and prove it! Otherwise, be a man and admit you're wrong. That is only the right thing to do.
Why should anyone do that??
You asked me to provide evidence of when I said that during Dg's 1st year I would have drafted gotten FA's Hubbard and Fulton then gone after SY's guy of Braden Smith. I finally found the posts I made and replied and then you say nothing.
What's the point with posters like you?? You wear your New York Giants skirt and no matter what it's "Yay Team!"
No one owes you nothing - especially a cheerleader of a fan. If you think so many are lying then go ahead and pout.
Because in any Message Board if you make a claim about someone else you should at least be able to back it up.
Why is that a questionable request?
I went back on my time to find the post you asked me to prove - I replied and I sent it on the thread you asked. What did I get for it? Nothing. Which is fine but I did it as a courtesy and I got no reply.
Why is it unreasonable to believe that posters may feel that when they make a post they should feel trusted? You can choose to believe that poster or not.
You can call me a liar if you wish. I can care less. Me and you have a bad relationship. I'm sure there are some others on here too you have bad relationships with as I do. No offense - but why should I waste my valuable time to satisfy you? What does it get me to go back and look? Last time I did-- you said nothing and we just went right back on other threads ripping into one another.
For example on here there have ben several people here that have accused FMiC of being a DG defender. Every accuser is lying? They can't be trusted? If they believe their word is good -- why do they need to go back? This board is fun board to talk. You gotta go back and find links on everything that was said previously rather than just make your own decision if that poster is honest or not?
Please tell me what thread that was and I will 100% give you the courtesy of responding because at that point it's deserved and I apologize if I missed it.
You want answers?? No way! He sucks and if you don't want him ridden out of town - you're a "supporter"!!
"I hate this team because....Well....I really don't know what we should have done but hell I hate this team...Yeah!"
Again - tell me how that translates to me saying he's doing a great job here. Hell, some of you guys mantra has been that he was terrible in Carolina and should never have been hired here. Should that ridiculousness be called out?
Your suggestions are the "great job" is coming based on his resume and that he walked into an oil spill.
And once that is cleaned up, better days will arrive.
If we aren’t 4-7 or so by that mark, the fire DG talks will continue to get louder
Gettleman saw a masterful performance by Eli in the last week of the season and just went on as if that could be assumed to continue. A few years prior that would be acceptable. But, the balance of that season was not great. One of the biggest reasons was Eli, an immobile QB, was playing behind a horrid OL. So, if you proceed with Eli, you have to do something about the OL. He didn't.
Then, he assumes just drafting Barkley solves the problem. Again, without doing anything to the worst OL, what did you expect. Barry Sanders is great as an individual comparison, but how many titles did he win? Playoff games? There's a reason he is the career "leader" in runs for a loss. I, for one, love Barkley, but I don't want to see week after week of 16 carries for 30 yards and then a 70 yard run and then tout the 100 game. That kind of game looks great when you look back on it 30 years later. But, it more often than not isn't winning the game. And I don't put that on him. I put it on a lack of an offensive plan and OL. All that said, I am 1000% happier with Barkley, injury and all, than I would be with Darnold as the QB.
Now, here we are after 3 off seasons. The OL is still mostly the same results. But, we have a 1st round pick in Thomas starting and we have 2 promising draft picks in the wings. I think a lot of Gettleman's fate could ride on Lemieux and Peart (and Thomas).
Many people wanted to pretend like we had every reason to think DG was a strong hire and a lot more than competent while others of us from the beginning questioned if he was even a competent hire.
NoGainDayne : 10/1/2018 3:20 pm : link
and even more pissed off now. While other teams are moving their analytics and technology programs forward we hired a guy stuck in the past who barely changed the staff.
We haven't done anything to show we can compete in a fast modernizing NFL.
I started to root against the Giants winning last year because I wanted them to clean house. I might be there again already. This team isn't going to the playoffs and I fear the only way ownership might actually accept the reality that they need a new leader is one or two years more of horrible play.
Honestly I might be willing to stomach that if we can actually get a lick of innovation in the building.
We have all the same characters on that thread even today day after day trying to twist facts to overrate the competence of the people in that building. When the truth is, it should be scary to them how clear it was to some of us.
I'm sharing this again because it's sad, many here were in this place years ago, where I've been conflicted. Losses seem better than wins on some level because it might get us closer to real change. I don't want to be here, I don't think any of the "realists" do where I found myself before this season saying to people, honestly it might be better if they are 2-14 than 5-11.
Watching the Giants management struggle through appearing to be even remotely competitive in their approach is kind of like watching someone go into a fight that they are overmatched in with far too much confidence. You say something to yourself like man, I hope they get knocked out or stay down because otherwise they might get themselves killed. This franchise is for some reason pursuing the path of watching us die before our eyes instead of taking it's lumps calling up some people in its extended network to fight alongside instead of charging into a fight that increasingly few people think they have any shot at winning.
2018 Thread on Ownership and DG - ( New Window )
You want answers?? No way! He sucks and if you don't want him ridden out of town - you're a "supporter"!!
He’s 9-27. But he re-tooled behind Eli twice which he know you loved soooo
Quote:
look. If you don't grab a pitchfork, you are a supporter!!
You want answers?? No way! He sucks and if you don't want him ridden out of town - you're a "supporter"!!
"I hate this team because....Well....I really don't know what we should have done but hell I hate this team...Yeah!"
What is the point of some fan telling you a perfect set of moves in hindsight? That’s what you’re looking for?
Bottom line we are in year 3 and are now 0-5, that’s reality. Don’t really need to spin that at all.
Abrams. But maybe Judge will be a good change for the organization and get some control. The team is terrible but at least they fight. More than can be said under McAdoo or Shurmur.
I've said repeatedly that Gettleman has made some poor moves. But that he also inherited a team that was in a terrible state.
Are you really saying that the record of a team is the indicator of if a GM is doing well or not?? Funny, because Yankee fans want their GM run out of town.
I said that this year was a critical one in if the team is heading in the right direction. If we miss the playoffs and are at the bottom of the league again - he needs to go, not because of the record but because after three years, we still aren't in a competitive position.
“He needs to go but not because of the record but because after three years, we still aren’t in a competitive position”
What?? Those are the same thing.
Quote:
In comment 15005279 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
where I've defended Gettleman
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's got to be the leading post for Post of the Year.
I had to read it at least 20X to make sure I wasn't misreading what he wrote.
Oh my, Fatman, you can’t be serious.
Quote:
that??
I've said repeatedly that Gettleman has made some poor moves. But that he also inherited a team that was in a terrible state.
Are you really saying that the record of a team is the indicator of if a GM is doing well or not?? Funny, because Yankee fans want their GM run out of town.
I said that this year was a critical one in if the team is heading in the right direction. If we miss the playoffs and are at the bottom of the league again - he needs to go, not because of the record but because after three years, we still aren't in a competitive position.
“He needs to go but not because of the record but because after three years, we still aren’t in a competitive position”
What?? Those are the same thing.
However, we are looking more like a 3-13 team, at the very best. With the latter, the record wouldn't be great. With the former it's both the record and a lack of any type of improvement...except for those who are happy that all our players showed up with the right uniform and shoelaces tied.
FatMan in Charlotte : 9:18 pm : link : reply
where I've defended Gettleman
Easy
2018
1-Barkley, great rookie season, disappointing and injury-riddled second season, blown out knee and who knows if he'll still have that burst when he comes back?
2-Hernandez, been regressing like hell, looks like at best a mediocre starter.
3-Carter, mostly invisible his first two years, was better this year but still far from an impact player, done for this season. Also Hill, who got incredible mileage out of one decent game but has otherwise done little. Was so impressive that Mr Magoo trader for the honor of overpaying Leonard Williams to take most of his snaps.
4-Lauletta 😂
5-RJ McIntosh, still around but still getting left off of the active roster on gameday
Oh, and the 3rd round supplemental draft pick wasted of Sam Beal, who will have played all of 6 games in three years.
2019
1-Jones, was up and down last year, taking big steps backwards this year, gives the ball away as if he were the Santa Claus of the Meadowlands. Lawrence is a steady performer, though limited mostly to a wide body run-plugging role that you can fill without using a first. Baker is gone.
3-Ximines has had zero impact, looks slow as molasses, and is now hurt.
4-Love has seen time at CB and S, doesn't look like an answer at either position.
5-Connelly looked good for a couple of games, got hurt, and is now gone. Slayton was last year's happy surprise but sure doesn't look like a quality starting WR this year.
6-Ballentine....hoo boy does he suck.
7-dont even remember their names, doesn't matter
Obvious it's too early to say much about 2020, but Thomas has gotten off to a rough start.
When people say he's never been a good GM, I show them the record from Carolina.
Can you show where I say he's been a good or great GM here?
Quote:
Please show me..
FatMan in Charlotte : 9:18 pm : link : reply
where I've defended Gettleman
Easy
Quote:
When people say he's never been a good GM, I point them to his record in Carolina and that he's their most successful GM ever. When people say he shits on analytics, I've pointed to him putting the system in place in Carolina.
He's moved the goal posts oh so subtly.
FMiC has now revised to "...good GM with the Giants..." as what he really meant...
Quote:
In comment 15005298 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that??
I've said repeatedly that Gettleman has made some poor moves. But that he also inherited a team that was in a terrible state.
Are you really saying that the record of a team is the indicator of if a GM is doing well or not?? Funny, because Yankee fans want their GM run out of town.
I said that this year was a critical one in if the team is heading in the right direction. If we miss the playoffs and are at the bottom of the league again - he needs to go, not because of the record but because after three years, we still aren't in a competitive position.
“He needs to go but not because of the record but because after three years, we still aren’t in a competitive position”
What?? Those are the same thing.
Not really. An example of the latter could be a 7-9 season with a strong finish. Not a winning season, but more wins than prior and a shot at the playoffs at some point in November.
However, we are looking more like a 3-13 team, at the very best. With the latter, the record wouldn't be great. With the former it's both the record and a lack of any type of improvement...except for those who are happy that all our players showed up with the right uniform and shoelaces tied.
7-9 is in a competitive position because you’re one or two games going your way from being in the playoffs. The record is directly correlated to not being in a competitive position because they’re 9-27.
Quote:
In comment 15005619 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15005298 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that??
I've said repeatedly that Gettleman has made some poor moves. But that he also inherited a team that was in a terrible state.
Are you really saying that the record of a team is the indicator of if a GM is doing well or not?? Funny, because Yankee fans want their GM run out of town.
I said that this year was a critical one in if the team is heading in the right direction. If we miss the playoffs and are at the bottom of the league again - he needs to go, not because of the record but because after three years, we still aren't in a competitive position.
“He needs to go but not because of the record but because after three years, we still aren’t in a competitive position”
What?? Those are the same thing.
Not really. An example of the latter could be a 7-9 season with a strong finish. Not a winning season, but more wins than prior and a shot at the playoffs at some point in November.
However, we are looking more like a 3-13 team, at the very best. With the latter, the record wouldn't be great. With the former it's both the record and a lack of any type of improvement...except for those who are happy that all our players showed up with the right uniform and shoelaces tied.
7-9 is in a competitive position because you’re one or two games going your way from being in the playoffs. The record is directly correlated to not being in a competitive position because they’re 9-27.
Quote:
Quote:
Please show me..
FatMan in Charlotte : 9:18 pm : link : reply
where I've defended Gettleman
Easy
Quote:
When people say he's never been a good GM, I point them to his record in Carolina and that he's their most successful GM ever. When people say he shits on analytics, I've pointed to him putting the system in place in Carolina.
He's moved the goal posts oh so subtly.
FMiC has now revised to "...good GM with the Giants..." as what he really meant...
Isn't that the argument?? If you think he wasn't a good GM with the Panthers, you are a moron.
When people say he's never been a good GM, I show them the record from Carolina.
Can you show where I say he's been a good or great GM here?
That’s not what you asked, don’t be sneaky. You defend Gettleman’s tenure, his results, and the scenario around his dismissal at every juncture.
I always assumed that had some relevance to your thoughts about his current position. But maybe you’re just the editor for the Dave Gettleman Wikipedia section titled Carolina?
Should be easy if I'm a huge supporter of his, right?
What I've done is taken people to task who say he's unqualified to be a GM, has always sucked as a GM, or the analytics schmucks who claim that he shuns analytics.
So he's the challenge - produce posts where I talk about Gettleman being a very good or great GM here in NY. Really shouldn't be too hard, right?
This is the type of weasel that you do. This is the same example I gave that you ripped into me about Sam Darnold when I said that he was going to be "good." (( was wrong.) Then you replied that I was wrong for making such claim that he'd be elite (or generational etc)?
The point was I NEVER SAID HE WAS GOING TO BE ELITE (GENRATIONAL). When I replied to you - you denied you said elite but I replied back and copied your post -- YOU SAID IT.
Now you are trying to weasel yourself on here.
****You are asking the following: "where I've said Gettleman is a very good GM or has made great moves for us."
Like the weasel you are NOBODY is saying this. You again DELIBERTAELY/DECEIPTFULLY changed what you're being accused of.
People are saying you "DEFENDED" DG. Now you are trying to weasel that into "I never said he was very good" etc. Saying you never said he was good is not the same as defending him. You can't understand that?
And even on this thread. Hasn't there been posters on here saying the losing today is indicative of the GM?
Thus aren't you defending DG against these attacks?? Ohh wait a minute that's right. When the poster bw-in-dc gave you an explanation why-- YOU DEFENDED DG!!!! Ohh yeah and then you chose to deflect the point by going off topic and talk about running Cashman out of town. SO you are using what SOME (not all) Yank fans have suggested and using it to defend your position on DG.
This is the same bullshit you are trying to do with Lax. He told you that you were hiding on here. Are you that slow that you couldn't understand that he was implying "state of the Giants?" SO what do you do? You print out some subjects in which you were discussing the Yankees. And the posts about the Giants -- which one at the time lax accused you - did you address the state of the team? Y YOU KNEW WHAT HE WAS ASKING YET YOU DLEIBERALETY TRIED OT DEFLECT.
Quote:
Quote:
Please show me..
FatMan in Charlotte : 9:18 pm : link : reply
where I've defended Gettleman
Easy
Quote:
When people say he's never been a good GM, I point them to his record in Carolina and that he's their most successful GM ever. When people say he shits on analytics, I've pointed to him putting the system in place in Carolina.
He's moved the goal posts oh so subtly.
FMiC has now revised to "...good GM with the Giants..." as what he really meant...
This is the best thread in quite some time. It’s like the twilight zone. Prove a negative! All those profanity laced tirades against any poster suggesting DG was an awful hire weren’t meant to say DG was a good GM <<for the Giants>> he was only demonstrating that he was above carrying -as he loves to say- a pitchfork. Let the bloviating continue...
2018
1-Barkley, great rookie season, disappointing and injury-riddled second season, blown out knee and who knows if he'll still have that burst when he comes back?
2-Hernandez, been regressing like hell, looks like at best a mediocre starter.
3-Carter, mostly invisible his first two years, was better this year but still far from an impact player, done for this season. Also Hill, who got incredible mileage out of one decent game but has otherwise done little. Was so impressive that Mr Magoo trader for the honor of overpaying Leonard Williams to take most of his snaps.
4-Lauletta 😂
5-RJ McIntosh, still around but still getting left off of the active roster on gameday
Oh, and the 3rd round supplemental draft pick wasted of Sam Beal, who will have played all of 6 games in three years.
2019
1-Jones, was up and down last year, taking big steps backwards this year, gives the ball away as if he were the Santa Claus of the Meadowlands. Lawrence is a steady performer, though limited mostly to a wide body run-plugging role that you can fill without using a first. Baker is gone.
3-Ximines has had zero impact, looks slow as molasses, and is now hurt.
4-Love has seen time at CB and S, doesn't look like an answer at either position.
5-Connelly looked good for a couple of games, got hurt, and is now gone. Slayton was last year's happy surprise but sure doesn't look like a quality starting WR this year.
6-Ballentine....hoo boy does he suck.
7-dont even remember their names, doesn't matter
Obvious it's too early to say much about 2020, but Thomas has gotten off to a rough start.
Quite damning to say the least. Is Ross still running the draft?
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very simple ask of shitbirds like giantstock or lax counsel, please produce a post where I've said Gettleman is a very good GM or has made great moves for us.
Should be easy if I'm a huge supporter of his, right?
What I've done is taken people to task who say he's unqualified to be a GM, has always sucked as a GM, or the analytics schmucks who claim that he shuns analytics.
So he's the challenge - produce posts where I talk about Gettleman being a very good or great GM here in NY. Really shouldn't be too hard, right?
This is the type of weasel that you do. This is the same example I gave that you ripped into me about Sam Darnold when I said that he was going to be "good." (( was wrong.) Then you replied that I was wrong for making such claim that he'd be elite (or generational etc)?
The point was I NEVER SAID HE WAS GOING TO BE ELITE (GENRATIONAL). When I replied to you - you denied you said elite but I replied back and copied your post -- YOU SAID IT.
Now you are trying to weasel yourself on here.
****You are asking the following: "where I've said Gettleman is a very good GM or has made great moves for us."
Like the weasel you are NOBODY is saying this. You again DELIBERTAELY/DECEIPTFULLY changed what you're being accused of.
People are saying you "DEFENDED" DG. Now you are trying to weasel that into "I never said he was very good" etc. Saying you never said he was good is not the same as defending him. You can't understand that?
And even on this thread. Hasn't there been posters on here saying the losing today is indicative of the GM?
Thus aren't you defending DG against these attacks?? Ohh wait a minute that's right. When the poster bw-in-dc gave you an explanation why-- YOU DEFENDED DG!!!! Ohh yeah and then you chose to deflect the point by going off topic and talk about running Cashman out of town. SO you are using what SOME (not all) Yank fans have suggested and using it to defend your position on DG.
This is the same bullshit you are trying to do with Lax. He told you that you were hiding on here. Are you that slow that you couldn't understand that he was implying "state of the Giants?" SO what do you do? You print out some subjects in which you were discussing the Yankees. And the posts about the Giants -- which one at the time lax accused you - did you address the state of the team? Y YOU KNEW WHAT HE WAS ASKING YET YOU DLEIBERALETY TRIED OT DEFLECT.
I didn’t even bother posting a reply to that. He indicted himself, by posting threads where he was commenting on....Brian Cashman
This is not a good performance. He was given a bad team before and may have made it worse because of contracts and failed draft picks. If Mara had a singular hair on his ball he would fire this man by Wednesday and ask Judge to help him pick a GM.
McKinney and Peart haven’t played for us yet.
The only saving grace here is that outside about 2 games, Beckham has looked very ordinary in Cleveland.
He's been invisible for the last three weeks before tonight. Forgive me for not being overly impressed by good stats against an incredibly bad Cowboys defense. Also had a killer drop today.
McKinney and Peart haven’t played for us yet.
You hit the nail on the head. It will largely come down to Jones. If he’s mediocre or worse, it is going to look a whole lot worse than it even does now.
Isn't that the argument?? If you think he wasn't a good GM with the Panthers, you are a moron.
Guilty. I don't think he was a good GM. I think was okay and was the beneficiary of Hurney's foundation.
The Panthers thought so highly of Gettleman they fired him after they went 11-5. I'm sure you'll respond with how he got screwed, was misunderstood, etc, etc.
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by no means am I trying to defend DG with this particular thread but if we are talking solely about draft picks, he’s been ok and will come down to whether or not Jones develops into a pro bowl quarterback. If he doesn’t, that sucks.
McKinney and Peart haven’t played for us yet.
You hit the nail on the head. It will largely come down to Jones. If he’s mediocre or worse, it is going to look a whole lot worse than it even does now.
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In comment 15005676 ryanmkeane said:
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by no means am I trying to defend DG with this particular thread but if we are talking solely about draft picks, he’s been ok and will come down to whether or not Jones develops into a pro bowl quarterback. If he doesn’t, that sucks.
McKinney and Peart haven’t played for us yet.
You hit the nail on the head. It will largely come down to Jones. If he’s mediocre or worse, it is going to look a whole lot worse than it even does now.
If he's mediocre or worse, we are very likely to have a shot at Lawrence. I think under those circumstances you have to take him. For no other reason, Lawrence is the kind of guy you will expect to elevate the rest of the team. To date, Jones hasn't shown he can be that guy. That isn't necessarily saying he will be bad. But, that isn't the guy I can build with, knowing I have a ton of holes to fill.
Agreed 100%
Where would you rank Lawrence among his peers? Is he a top 10 DT? Nah. So where?
Lawrence is a great player. But he can only be on the field for 60% of snaps at a maximum. If he were to get hurt, then BJ Hill and Austin Johnson get more snaps. They're good players. Unless they have the unique ability to quickly disrupt the passing game, it's not hard to find good interior DL play. He wasn't a bad draft pick by any stretch...but at 17 Dexter Lawrence needed to be every bit of Dexter Lawrence to justify that pick. Even then...it's just a single because of his skillset and snap coutn.
Solid point. The only counter I would say is that we are seeing players develop much faster today than in years past. As others have said, the college and NFL games are as close as they have ever been. It’s not to say he can’t be top 10, perhaps even next year, just to see that we are seeing elite players reach their peak play much faster than in years prior.
I like Lawrence as a player, he does his job well, but at this point he's a somewhat limited player and that's not really what you want in a first round pick.
Where would you rank Lawrence among his peers? Is he a top 10 DT? Nah. So where?
I hate what Gettleman's done as GM. He dismantled the 2016 defense and replaced it with a bunch of jelly beans.
But if they let him go then it's start all over again. Like DG replaced all the defensive players from 2016 with no better players to replace them.
Losing becomes a mentality like the Bills had (until this year finally). Keeping the team stable if even the drafting is poor might be better than starting over again. The new management will get rid of Gettleman's good players along with his bad. If Gettleman continues to draft poorly he'll learn to rely on scouts and assistants more.
I think that beyond a doubt Saquon Barkley was his worst pick. I would have told you that all good football minds know that adding an acrobatic and fragile skills player to a team before it's set at quarterback and blocking is just wasting his limited years at full strength.
And that adding a running back to a team lacking blocking will not help you win games. And that Saquon has shown an alarming difficulty at running between the tackles. Gallman and Freeman with the same blocking can bull five to seven yards up the middle.
But I would have been wrong about all the football minds being in agreement. Seems a lot of them liked the pick.
“I think he’s the best running back to come up through the draft since Adrian Peterson,” Brandt, a long-time NFL executive who is now an analyst for Sirius XM’s NFL Radio, said on a conference call on Wednesday. “I believe that Barkley has the speed and quickness and catching ability. I think he’s a special player . . . I think Barkley is going to be a future star in this league.”
Lawrence Taylor is a player who had an immediate impact and was named just not rookie defensive play of the year but overall defensive player of the year. He got the Giants to the playoffs
Well, he did call giantstock and I shit birds (what exactly that is, I am not sure), or something to that effect. Does that count? He also never said he defended DG or said he would be or is a good GM. In response to being called out for saying nary a word about the state of the franchise, it’s talent, or record over the past month - after an offseason of profanity laced tirades on similar threads against the naysayers- he posts a thread list where he discussed the Yankees, OBJ, and Dwayne Haskins 🥴. So yep, I’d say he’s been here 😬.
Barkley is one of 3 players in NFL history to have 2,000 all purpose yards as a rookie. He broke the rookie catches record for a running back. He looked really, like a phenomenal player. He started out great as well in 2019 and ended on a great note, obviously the injury in week 3 lingered. But he still had almost 1,500 yards with missing nearly 4 full games. He might have had more yards then he did as a rookie if not for the ankle injury. Then tore his knee this year. Sucks, it happened, not sure how you can get on a guy for tearing a knee on a freak play.
Barkley is an incredible talent. If our OL continues to build and *hopefully* improve, he will be great.
I think that beyond a doubt Saquon Barkley was his worst pick. I would have told you that all good football minds know that adding an acrobatic and fragile skills player to a team before it's set at quarterback and blocking is just wasting his limited years at full strength.
And that adding a running back to a team lacking blocking will not help you win games. And that Saquon has shown an alarming difficulty at running between the tackles. Gallman and Freeman with the same blocking can bull five to seven yards up the middle.
But I would have been wrong about all the football minds being in agreement. Seems a lot of them liked the pick.
“I think he’s the best running back to come up through the draft since Adrian Peterson,” Brandt, a long-time NFL executive who is now an analyst for Sirius XM’s NFL Radio, said on a conference call on Wednesday. “I believe that Barkley has the speed and quickness and catching ability. I think he’s a special player . . . I think Barkley is going to be a future star in this league.”
Lawrence Taylor is a player who had an immediate impact and was named just not rookie defensive play of the year but overall defensive player of the year. He got the Giants to the playoffs
But you wouldn't have been wrong regarding Barkley. There were also others that said it was a bad move.
Sure Brandt liked it. And Brandt also had Josh Rosen as his number 1 QB and ranked very high.
Andrew Thomas was a reach, see the composite mock draft where he is ranked 10 or the 3rd highest tackle. In draft capital the difference between 4 and 10 is an extra 2nd round pick. Relatively high too. That’s the problem with the Giants and what a lot of fans don’t get either. When you don’t get good value consistently these things add up. Andrew Thomas struggling for example would be a lot better if we had another 2nd round pick on the OL for a direct example.
Composite Mock Draft - ( New Window )
Tesla : 9/27/2020 8:37 pm : link
In comment 14987013 santacruzom said:
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In comment 14986757 Go Terps said:
FatMan hasn't posted yet.
It's no big deal that Fats has been 100% wrong in his defense of DG since the beginning. What is a big deal is how arrogant he is about it.....calling everyone critical of DG a fuckstain, idiot, moron, etc.
Fact is NOBODY has been more wrong about Giants management over the past few years than Fats. Nobody.
Of course we all know that he's gonna show up at some point denying that he ever actually supported DG......instead he was merely attacking idiots poster who didn't know what they were talking about.
Andrew Thomas was a reach, see the composite mock draft where he is ranked 10 or the 3rd highest tackle. In draft capital the difference between 4 and 10 is an extra 2nd round pick. Relatively high too. That’s the problem with the Giants and what a lot of fans don’t get either. When you don’t get good value consistently these things add up. Andrew Thomas struggling for example would be a lot better if we had another 2nd round pick on the OL for a direct example.
Composite Mock Draft - ( New Window )
Yet you still have posters defending the Barkley pcik- which is mind-boggling.
Usually though imo these are the same posters who defend him hard even today. They're dug in.
I'd change this from "no effect" to very little. But this plays as an overview snapshot.
He plays a position that has snap constraints, with a higher risk for injury, with a shorter prime + tricky 2nd contract, an exponentially higher relative rookie cap cost (rookie dollars are locked based on slot regardless of position, RBs are cheap) and a pretty flat replacement value (see Mike Davis). It's a bad pick despite his immense talent.
You need a sound approach, a transparent and inclusive decision making process as a start. The Giants had many signs for years they didn’t have this and they are bright and shining.
Charisma, leadership, things of that nature are great, I’d never devalue them. But you inspire and climb to the top with your strong roots bonded to your foundational approach.
When the Giants hired Gettleman they displayed that they understood none of this. Gettleman fancied himself having a positive influence on culture without remotely understanding what a good culture in the modern world is. He’s a dinosaur, he outed himself the way he spoke. Some of us saw it and others acted like we were crazy because we didn’t have every single fossil in the skeleton proving our theories.
These losses are digging up the last of the bones, we’ve got a whole bunch of dinosaurs at met life stadium or wherever they do business now
We're in the dark right now. The way back into the light is this:
1. Fire Gettleman immediately.
2. Ask Judge who he wants to work with in a sink/swim partnership at GM.
3. Turn the keys off the football side of things to Judge/new GM.
When the Giants hired Gettleman they displayed that they understood none of this. Gettleman fancied himself having a positive influence on culture without remotely understanding what a good culture in the modern world is. He’s a dinosaur, he outed himself the way he spoke. Some of us saw it and others acted like we were crazy because we didn’t have every single fossil in the skeleton proving our theories.
These losses are digging up the last of the bones, we’ve got a whole bunch of dinosaurs at met life stadium or wherever they do business now
Great post.
We're in the dark right now. The way back into the light is this:
1. Fire Gettleman immediately.
2. Ask Judge who he wants to work with in a sink/swim partnership at GM.
3. Turn the keys off the football side of things to Judge/new GM.
I like Judge too. I think Chris Moore said it best a week or so ago-- he appears to be "a leader of men."
The GMEN have had 3 winnable games.
I was busy today and only now got a chance to catch up here. I am sorry I missed this action.
bw - I agree, I had to read what FMiC said 20 times as well. It was the biggest WTF moment of 2020. And considering what kind of year it has been. Well, I don't need to say anything more.
FMiC: I think the wormed has turned on you. Pretty much everybody knows who and what you are, and people aren't buying it anymore.
I certainly noticed your crappy posts haven't been on the threads I read (I don't read Yankee threads, and I don't care about Haskins, or any of those other thread you were on.) There was another thread after the 49ers game where you were a topic of discussion (and not in a good way). I was curious if you had seen it. I checked your handle. You had in fact been online, the last activity showed it updated times for days, but you hadn't posted, so I know you saw it. And it would be several more days before you dared post anything at all on even non-Giant Threads. So yeah, you hid for a while. and you've been laying low until today. Coming out of hiding... Big mistake chief.
Still can't believe you said that you haven't defended DG.
And to be clear, the words there are "DEFENDED DG". Nobody said you claimed he was a good GM. We all know you would never go out on a limb like that and actually clearly state an opinion. You play word salad in such a way as to make sure you can't be held accountable for anything. But as I said, the whole board is onto you now. You have ZERO credibility. I have to agree with whomever it was that questioned your mental health. That has been on my mind as well, and why I have in general stopped engaging with you.
Still can't believe you said you never defended DG...
Mind blowing.
That is all. Buh bye.
You can think Gettleman got a raw deal in Carolina because he cut some
well liked vets. You can also think Gettleman’s tenure as Giants GM hasn’t been good. Both statements can be true.
That’s the problem with this board today. There’s no sense of the nuances in football. You’re either team this or team that. You’re either negative about everything or you’re a cheerleader. It is quite possible that Daniel Jones will not be a good NFL quarterback but it is also possible that he is severely hampered by the cast of characters around him.
You can think Gettleman got a raw deal in Carolina because he cut some
well liked vets. You can also think Gettleman’s tenure as Giants GM hasn’t been good. Both statements can be true.
That’s the problem with this board today. There’s no sense of the nuances in football. You’re either team this or team that. You’re either negative about everything or you’re a cheerleader. It is quite possible that Daniel Jones will not be a good NFL quarterback but it is also possible that he is severely hampered by the cast of characters around him.
Even with a healthy Barkley and Shepard, an optimist probably would have been pleased with 8 wins. With them both out, what can we expect?
You can think Gettleman got a raw deal in Carolina because he cut some
well liked vets. You can also think Gettleman’s tenure as Giants GM hasn’t been good. Both statements can be true.
That’s the problem with this board today. There’s no sense of the nuances in football. You’re either team this or team that. You’re either negative about everything or you’re a cheerleader. It is quite possible that Daniel Jones will not be a good NFL quarterback but it is also possible that he is severely hampered by the cast of characters around him.
Pete,
It isn't what he thought of Gettleman per se. It is how he has approached it. He attacks posters who post perfectly reasonable opinions. Those opinions don't conflict with your statement about raw deal in Carolina, and not good here. But FMiC twists everything with profanity laced responses. He avoids stating an opinion just so that he can never be pinned down. He forces good football discussions off the tracks, while adding nothing of substance. I find it hard to believe that anybody could find him a "good read" since he never posts anything of value. All his posts are attacking other posters. If that is what you enjoy, well then you can have him. Give him your email and have him dump his crap on you directly.
FMiC has antagonized and pissed off most of the board at some point, if not directly, then just by his obnoxious presence on threads. Maybe not you, but it appears that the majority the people that come here have simply had enough of him.
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His winning percentage with the Giants is worse than Matt Millen. Let that sink in
Yo...Les in TO. How goes it?
Ask Pete if I've attacked him. Ask montana. Ask ryankeane. There are hundreds of posters here that I've never attacked.
But you went to the tried and true "nothing of substance" comment. What is the substance you're looking for? When I provide Gettleman's track record at Carolina and posted the specifics behind his time in Carolina - that's not adding substance? When I provide information from the Combine, that isn't substance??
It isn't that you want substance, you want agreement. You want acceptance that your opinion holds weight. You want to post something about positional value and you don't want to be challenged on it.
And apparently, you want civility. However, whether or not a post has profanity in it doesn't make it civil or not. You've flat out accused me of being a paid shill for the team. Civil?? You take unprovoked potshots at me across a number of threads and say it's OK because it is warranted. Civil?
You don't like that you've been challenged so you say there's nothing being posted "of value". The bottom line is that you've been attacked. Not everyone on the board. You. And thus the exaggeration that the majority of the board is attacked. Hell, lax counsel says I haven't even been on the board for the last 4 weeks, so perception of my posting is pretty damned warped.
Yes, it is. Give it some more thought.
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In comment 15005146 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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so losing today is indicative of the GM??
Wow, just wow. No you’re right, it’s a talented. Go back into hiding.
I've been hiding?? WTF?
Yes, I think you said you needed a break. Maybe it was just from GM-related threads.
Based on these posts, you do need a break.
Post of the year indeed.
You need a break.
This is correct.
I rather have the less talented Derek Henry
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Fun to watch at times but had no effect on turning losses into wins.
This is correct.
I rather have the less talented Derek Henry
Only if his OL comes over with him.
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In comment 15005715 Go Terps said:
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Fun to watch at times but had no effect on turning losses into wins.
This is correct.
I rather have the less talented Derek Henry
Only if his OL comes over with him.
Nope, even behind our online
A lot less negative plays and when he does get some space he finished runs hard. Much rather have our RB trucking guys to end runs like Zeke did yesterday than trying to hurdle them
Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton, who is at the very least a solid role player on a good team, and at beast, has shown the ceiling of a borderline #1/#2 on a functional offense. I think a realistic place he ends up is a solid #2 if this team can turn around.
2) Drafting Lawrence, who is already a good player but has the potential to continue to ascend, although this is partially tainted because he was part of the OBJ trade, which is a mixed
Unless there was a guest GM that built yesterday's roster, then yes, every loss is indicative of the GM on some level.
Or is this another one of those times that you pretend that your undying love for DG is actually just an objective POV?
The Cowboys line yesterday was an utter disaster, and Elliot ran hard and was productive. Look at Freeman behind this line, then imagine one of the best in the business hitting the hole hard.
At some point it can’t be summarily dismissed that Barkley has gained 37% of his career yards on fewer than 25 plays and something like half his carries have gone for 1 yard or less. He’s got a hole in his game.
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2020 8:54 pm : link : reply
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
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Only if his OL comes over with him.
The Cowboys line yesterday was an utter disaster, and Elliot ran hard and was productive. Look at Freeman behind this line, then imagine one of the best in the business hitting the hole hard.
At some point it can’t be summarily dismissed that Barkley has gained 37% of his career yards on fewer than 25 plays and something like half his carries have gone for 1 yard or less. He’s got a hole in his game.
That doesn't even include the hummer size hole which is his pass protection.. a 3 down RB needs to be able to pass protect as much as he needs to be able to take a run 80 yards..
I know you think this is some sort of slam dunk point for you because you repeat it ad nauseam, but just so we can apply a little bit of logic, this line of thinking is like suggesting that Michael Vick was an animal lover just because he owned so many dogs.
Starting an analytics department does not confirm any sort of commitment to analytics in general, especially when anyone with a brain and a computer can see how frequently DG's actions run opposed to what the data would suggest or the regressions would predict. Thinking you can outsmart the data or acting as though outliers are directional is not a commitment to analytics.
At some point it can’t be summarily dismissed that Barkley has gained 37% of his career yards on fewer than 25 plays and something like half his carries have gone for 1 yard or less. He’s got a hole in his game.
This is almost unbelievable. Did you calc that yourself or found it elsewhere?
I guess that's what happens when you put a generational running back behind a degenerating offensive line.
It might be easy for you to say. But how often have you gone back-and-forth with him while he swears at you calling you names all-the-while changing the meaning of your posts.
Don't you find it comical that he asked when did he defend DG then while on the very thread he asked juts a some posts prior he did exactly that? Yet he is "fighting it" and swearing at posters.
Then after he asked when did he ever defend DG he goes on to give examples when he did defend him.
ANd he is still fighting. It's comical is all.
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At some point it can’t be summarily dismissed that Barkley has gained 37% of his career yards on fewer than 25 plays and something like half his carries have gone for 1 yard or less. He’s got a hole in his game.
This is almost unbelievable. Did you calc that yourself or found it elsewhere?
I guess that's what happens when you put a generational running back behind a degenerating offensive line.
I added it up myself from PFR stats. If I have time later I can pull up the numbers. I started a thread on it earlier in the year, after the first game when Barkley had like 7 negative runs.
And I agree, it’s not all Barkley, but some of it is. He really needs to rely less on his jump cut and attack the hole straight away. I think to some extent teams figured him out a little.
We do need to focus on how we ended up with DG and Reese. I mentioned this in another post yesterday.
The issue to me is John Mara. He hired both Reese and DG and not only that, he let Acorsi make the selections for him. OR.. he was using Acorsi to provide some credibility to HIS selection making it seem to the fans that a football guy is endorsing the pick.
I believe John Mara is extremely conservative when it comes to selecting the individuals who will be the GM and the coach of this team. Image is a big thing for him apparently.
I used to laugh at Reese in his post draft press conferences when he would often refer to players as "clean". It was as if not having any baggage was a huge deal and at times more important than the on-field upside the player may offer. Now, I feel like that directive came from John Mara.
So, if John continues to push some of these buttons, then we will always have a GM who has some ties to the organization.
Now, all of that said... we never did have another guy who we thought was a slam dunk selection for our GM. For those who want to fire DG now I get it but we must decide WHO is a viable replacement. It has to be a realistic selection and someone who is not currently a GM for another team. Not so easy...
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And unrelated to the discussion about FMiC's posts - who cares who defends DG and who doesn't (on both sides)? There's no reason to fight with each other about this. On one hand, people are allowed to have opinions even if you disagree with them, but on the other, claiming that people are grabbing for pitchforks when the team has shown 0 improvement during his tenure also doesn't make much sense...
It might be easy for you to say. But how often have you gone back-and-forth with him while he swears at you calling you names all-the-while changing the meaning of your posts.
Fmic swearing/calling you names typically means he is pissed that you have better argument than him. It also signals that he is about to pivot to try and bail himself out.
He is nothing if not predictable.
Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton, who is at the very least a solid role player on a good team, and at beast, has shown the ceiling of a borderline #1/#2 on a functional offense. I think a realistic place he ends up is a solid #2 if this team can turn around.
2) Drafting Lawrence, who is already a good player but has the potential to continue to ascend, although this is partially tainted because he was part of the OBJ trade, which is a mixed bag.
3) Finding Ryan Connelly, which is moot since he's gone.
The thing that's maddening to me about DG is that when he trades away talent, he doesn't seem to have a solid plan in place to replace it. The team he inherited had JPP, OBJ, Vernon, and Snacks. Of those, he oddly only seemed to have a plan to replace the whole created by Snacks.
Many have talked about the failure to remotely fix the OL and the awful plan for the OL this season, which is true, but the lack of investment in pass rushers is even glaringly more obvious to me.
Many applauded the JPP trade at the time but I really don't get what the rationale was there. He wasn't massively overpaid and has produced in Tampa Bay. Again, that production hasn't been replaced. The prevailing thought was that JPP could not play in a 3-4, which I do not think is accurate.
The Vernon for Zeitler trade was at least a decent move that paid off some dividends before Zeitler began to break down, but once again, no plan to replace what Vernon gave us when he was on the field.
As for Flowers, I, like many, was happy when he was cut; having said that, nobody thought to at least try him out at Guard before cutting him? In fairness though, he likely needed a change of scenery to get to where he is today.
I can't speak too much regarding his tenure w the Panthers, and granted they did go 15-1 and reach the Superbowl, but I do recall him trading away talent there - Josh Norman, Steve Smith - but it seems he was able to at least address those roster spots with some reinforcements.
On a second overarching note, taking a shot with Eli was a really stupid decision. McAdoo was right to bench him when he did - the problem was that he played Geno, not Lauletta, which was just as pointless. However, DG was probably hired by the Maras because he was willing to take a shot with Eli. This is where my problem with NYG's ownership is really underscored. This "keep it in the family" approach is asinine and needs to end. The next GM cannot be Abrams. Chris Mara needs to back the fuck off football operations. And they need to STOP. CONSULTING. ACCORSCI. Who gives a fuck what Ernie Accorsci thinks at this time? I can't help but think the Giants limited their GM search because they had a mandate that the new GM had to take a shot with Eli.
As for his drafting, I do not think it's crazy to say they have objectively been terrible.
1) Barkley - this has been discussed ad nauseum, but is a little more nuanced than people who right it off as a terrible decision now. If I'm being perfectly honest here, I absolutely hated the Barkley pick at the time due to not only the fact he was an RB, but the type of RB he was. I watched Penn State a lot and Barkley in particular with jealousy (as I'm a Rutgers fan who was so bummed he decommitted), but Barkley's propensity to dance around the line, get minimal gains on a bunch of plays, then break a big one, was evident in college. That is not the type of RB you take at #2 unless you have a great line.
Having said that, the vast majority of this board wanted Barkley or Darnold. The portion that wanted the two players who would look like the "correct" pick in hindsight (Josh Allen or Nelson) was miniscule. Nelson was a Guard and right or wrong, they don't go at the #2 overall spot, especially when you have the option of the QBs or Barkley. Allen would have been a ballsy, correct call, and kudos to the BBIers who said he'd turn out to be the best of the 4 being considered at #2 that year. I was not one of them and was totally wrong on that.
So that's a long way of saying Barkley was not the right guy to pick, but I still think the alternative would have ended up being Darnold.
2) Jones - Jones is better than he looks this season, but his ceiling is not what the #6 overall pick's ceiling should be, and is actively being lowered by being on this shitty team. If Jones went to a team with a competent O-line and some semblance of NFL caliber skill players, he'd clearly be a solid to good QB. I don't think he has the pocket presence to be a great QB, not to mention he locks onto his WRs too much and obviously turns the ball over at an insane rate. The fumbles are something that IIRC were on his scouting report from Duke, and have not improved at all.
The question is whether some of this issues have been exacerbated and whether Jones change to improve in this areas has been shot (or is actively disintegrating) due to the terrible team around him. The end result is the same though; he has not shown remotely enough to forgo a top QB if the Giants have a shot at one. He also has been bad enough (so far) that replacing him needs to be the #1 priority.
The Giants appear to be headed for a top 3 pick again. If the pick is #1, DG will likely be fired and his replacement is not going to pass up on Lawrence, period. It's not even worth arguing, it's not going to happen.
If it's #2, DG is probably fired, but I wouldn't reach to replace Jones automatically. I think the pick should be S'ua, even if it means keeping Thomas at RT. Thomas hasn't grown into being an LT yet, but again, instead of hinging your hopes that he grows into one on where the (likely fired) DG took Thomas, you need to look at it as a sunk cost, slide Thomas to RT, hope he becomes a lynchpin there, then take S'ua and hope you're solidifed bookends for a long time. Grab a center, maybe bring in some competition for Hernandez, and hope that between another guard, an aging Zeitler, Hernandez, Lemiux, and Gates, you can find 3 competent inside players.
But if the pick is #3 and Fields has another great season, I think the new GM (or DG if god forbid he is still here).
Lawrence is a good player worth of where was picked, but the roster already had Tomlinson and had more pressing needs than DT.
Regardless of what people thought of Baker at the time, he was a bad pick. It's easy for people to say "how could you know he'd be arrested for armed robbery?", but that isn't even the reason I think he was unequivocally a bad pick. He was a bad pick because not only is he off the team (regardless of the reason), he also wasn't very good when he was on the field. Yes, the light bulb may have gone on, but when you couple his on field play with the fact the character concerns fleshed themselves out and he got released, it was a bad pick.
The Wiliams and OBJ trades were not good trades. Some may agree with the timing of getting rid of OBJ, which I can get behind, because big game against Dallas notwithstanding, I do not think he looks like he is physically the same player as he was in his NYG prime. But he'd still be by far the best skill player on this offense and is still a #1 WR in the NFL. He has no chemistry with Mayfield, and keeping him around would have been extremely helpful for Jones development. The return for OBJ was not great. The picks were not used wisely as some were traded for Baker, and Peppers is not a good football player (and was not good in Cleveland). If you wanted to get two firsts for him, they should have gotten a second 1st round pick from someone, not Peppers. Eric has said that there's a chance Lawrence ends up being the best player in that trade, but unless that happens, I think we can chalk that up as a bad move.
The Williams trade is still perplexing to this day. I do not get the rationale behind it.
This turned into a huge rambling post, but I don't get what people are expecting from DG when they say to give him time and believe he can turn it around. He has shown nothing to this point to inspire confidence, and there's this cloud of pseudo-organizational-nepotism around his hire in the first place.
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He forces good football discussions off the tracks, while adding nothing of substance. I find it hard to believe that anybody could find him a "good read" since he never posts anything of value. All his posts are attacking other posters. If that is what you enjoy, well then you can have him.
Ask Pete if I've attacked him. Ask montana. Ask ryankeane. There are hundreds of posters here that I've never attacked.
But you went to the tried and true "nothing of substance" comment. What is the substance you're looking for? When I provide Gettleman's track record at Carolina and posted the specifics behind his time in Carolina - that's not adding substance? When I provide information from the Combine, that isn't substance??
It isn't that you want substance, you want agreement. You want acceptance that your opinion holds weight. You want to post something about positional value and you don't want to be challenged on it.
And apparently, you want civility. However, whether or not a post has profanity in it doesn't make it civil or not. You've flat out accused me of being a paid shill for the team. Civil?? You take unprovoked potshots at me across a number of threads and say it's OK because it is warranted. Civil?
You don't like that you've been challenged so you say there's nothing being posted "of value". The bottom line is that you've been attacked. Not everyone on the board. You. And thus the exaggeration that the majority of the board is attacked. Hell, lax counsel says I haven't even been on the board for the last 4 weeks, so perception of my posting is pretty damned warped.
So we should ask Pete and then follow that up with two of the biggest DG apologists on the board? That's your defense when called out for attacking those who criticize DG? ryan and mg don't ever criticize DG - EVER. Why would they feel attacked by you?
For someone who supposedly doesn't actively and constantly defend DG, you certainly don't aggressively engage with DG's apologists in the same tone and manner than you engage with his critics. And it's not because they have a stronger argument: the team is 9-28 under DG. In Reese's final 37 games (including all of 2017), they were 15-22. Even if you drop each GM's best season (so we can avoid getting into the side debate about Reese's spending spree in 2016), they have identical 4-17 records.
Think about that - even if you ignore the 11-win season that Reese's Giants compiled in 2016, Gettleman has only even matched the record of a GM who was unceremoniously fired. And Gettleman has had three top-6 picks in that span; Reese never picked that high in his entire tenure here.
And as an aside, unless you're trying to gaslight the board, I don't think you realize how conspicuous your absence was following the 49ers game.
Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton, who is at the very least a solid role player on a good team, and at beast, has shown the ceiling of a borderline #1/#2 on a functional offense. I think a realistic place he ends up is a solid #2 if this team can turn around.
2) Drafting Lawrence, who is already a good player but has the potential to continue to ascend, although this is partially tainted because he was part of the OBJ trade, which is a mixed
you can add a few more... Bradberry and Martinez for example. Our new kicker is working out well.. lol
Now, all of that said... we never did have another guy who we thought was a slam dunk selection for our GM. For those who want to fire DG now I get it but we must decide WHO is a viable replacement. It has to be a realistic selection and someone who is not currently a GM for another team. Not so easy...
Why is the onus on fans to identify candidates to replace Dave Gettleman? As many people have pointed out, the problem isn't so much that Dave Gettleman was hired as GM, it was the process that resulted in that decision that is fundamentally broken.
It is John Mara's responsibility to put a process in place through which they can identify:
a) The strengths and weaknesses of their operations, both on and off the field
b) An identity they hope to cultivate
c) A list of candidates to put the organization on the correct path
Calling Ernie Accorsi and hiring whoever he recommends isn't a process. That's the laziest shit imaginable.
The Wiliams and OBJ trades were not good trades.
I think we need to set aside the OBJ trade because it simply is not being measured properly AND there are some unknowns.
It is my belief that DG was directed to sell OBJ and get as whatever he could for the guy. If you recall, AFTER we gave OBJ his big contract, he started mouthing off that he would prefer to play in Los Angeles. Then, he has a minor injury and sits himself for the month of December.
In my opinion (no evidence), those two things sent John Mara off the deep end and he told DG to get this asshole off of my team. I just gave him the richest contract in Giants' history and he is taking us for granted.
So, lets do the analysis on DG excluding this deal for the reasons I mention above. It actually goes back to an earlier comment I made about John Mara pushing too many buttons.
Gettleman has drafted a collection of talent that other than Slayton and Lawrence, has not translated to good pro football players.
And even slayton has not shown he can beat coverages enough to be a #2 WR.
I think he likely takes summations from his data people, but he trusts his eyes more. It's hard to see data driving the Leonard Williams move or taking a RB so high, I think data would argue against it. Just a gut feeling.
Why is the onus on fans to identify candidates to replace Dave Gettleman? As many people have pointed out, the problem isn't so much that Dave Gettleman was hired as GM, it was the process that resulted in that decision that is fundamentally broken.
Calling Ernie Accorsi and hiring whoever he recommends isn't a process. That's the laziest shit imaginable.
The onus is not on the fans. All I am asking is WHO do the fans here want? Nobody is going to make a hire based upon what BBI says... but I am from the belief that if you do not like the plan, then come up with your own plan... or STFU.
I do not know who the next GM should be, but I like what John Lynch has been doing in San Francisco. I would look for a retired player who somehow has shown to have an eye for talent and has strong leadership qualities.
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Why is the onus on fans to identify candidates to replace Dave Gettleman? As many people have pointed out, the problem isn't so much that Dave Gettleman was hired as GM, it was the process that resulted in that decision that is fundamentally broken.
Calling Ernie Accorsi and hiring whoever he recommends isn't a process. That's the laziest shit imaginable.
The onus is not on the fans. All I am asking is WHO do the fans here want? Nobody is going to make a hire based upon what BBI says... but I am from the belief that if you do not like the plan, then come up with your own plan... or STFU.
WTF? If we don't have a plan then STFU? What the hell are you talking about? What the hell does a fan's plan (of which there are millions) even mean? And why would anyone take that seriously?
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Why is the onus on fans to identify candidates to replace Dave Gettleman? As many people have pointed out, the problem isn't so much that Dave Gettleman was hired as GM, it was the process that resulted in that decision that is fundamentally broken.
Calling Ernie Accorsi and hiring whoever he recommends isn't a process. That's the laziest shit imaginable.
The onus is not on the fans. All I am asking is WHO do the fans here want? Nobody is going to make a hire based upon what BBI says... but I am from the belief that if you do not like the plan, then come up with your own plan... or STFU.
I do not know who the next GM should be, but I like what John Lynch has been doing in San Francisco. I would look for a retired player who somehow has shown to have an eye for talent and has strong leadership qualities.
Find his replacement or STFU? Lighten up.
Find his replacement or STFU? Lighten up.
my whole point is we as fans want someone else but have no idea WHO. Reminds me of the time when my wife wanted to just get rid of her car but she did not know what she wanted yet to replace it. I told her she had to keep it until she figured it out because I was not going to be driving her everywhere.
I think it is harder to replace a GM than a head coach because there are fewer qualified candidates. As much as I want a new GM.. I have no idea WHO we SHOULD hire if he was fired at the end of this season.
So, all I am saying is lets back up the fire DG campaign with a list of suitable replacements. I have no idea where to start.
I have no idea and most fans wouldn't know. I do know I want someone who doesn't talk as much. I want someone who sees the whole picture rather than just combine stats and measurables. Someone who is objective enough to make had decisions on 35-36 year old QBs and the rosters around them.
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Find his replacement or STFU? Lighten up.
my whole point is we as fans want someone else but have no idea WHO. Reminds me of the time when my wife wanted to just get rid of her car but she did not know what she wanted yet to replace it. I told her she had to keep it until she figured it out because I was not going to be driving her everywhere.
I think it is harder to replace a GM than a head coach because there are fewer qualified candidates. As much as I want a new GM.. I have no idea WHO we SHOULD hire if he was fired at the end of this season.
So, all I am saying is lets back up the fire DG campaign with a list of suitable replacements. I have no idea where to start.
Then stop yelling at us to STFU.
Of course its not easy to just find a GM. But when you know the guy you have doesn't work then at least it provides you some comfort that you can do better. Not a guarantee you will find a great GM but fairly certain they should be able to find a better one than Gettleman.
Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton, who is at the very least a solid role player on a good team, and at beast, has shown the ceiling of a borderline #1/#2 on a functional offense. I think a realistic place he ends up is a solid #2 if this team can turn around.
2) Drafting Lawrence, who is already a good player but has the potential to continue to ascend, although this is partially tainted because he was part of the OBJ trade, which is a mixed bag.
3) Finding Ryan Connelly, which is moot since he's gone.
The thing that's maddening to me about DG is that when he trades away talent, he doesn't seem to have a solid plan in place to replace it. The team he inherited had JPP, OBJ, Vernon, and Snacks. Of those, he oddly only seemed to have a plan to replace the whole created by Snacks.
Many have talked about the failure to remotely fix the OL and the awful plan for the OL this season, which is true, but the lack of investment in pass rushers is even glaringly more obvious to me.
Many applauded the JPP trade at the time but I really don't get what the rationale was there. He wasn't massively overpaid and has produced in Tampa Bay. Again, that production hasn't been replaced. The prevailing thought was that JPP could not play in a 3-4, which I do not think is accurate.
The Vernon for Zeitler trade was at least a decent move that paid off some dividends before Zeitler began to break down, but once again, no plan to replace what Vernon gave us when he was on the field.
As for Flowers, I, like many, was happy when he was cut; having said that, nobody thought to at least try him out at Guard before cutting him? In fairness though, he likely needed a change of scenery to get to where he is today.
I can't speak too much regarding his tenure w the Panthers, and granted they did go 15-1 and reach the Superbowl, but I do recall him trading away talent there - Josh Norman, Steve Smith - but it seems he was able to at least address those roster spots with some reinforcements.
On a second overarching note, taking a shot with Eli was a really stupid decision. McAdoo was right to bench him when he did - the problem was that he played Geno, not Lauletta, which was just as pointless. However, DG was probably hired by the Maras because he was willing to take a shot with Eli. This is where my problem with NYG's ownership is really underscored. This "keep it in the family" approach is asinine and needs to end. The next GM cannot be Abrams. Chris Mara needs to back the fuck off football operations. And they need to STOP. CONSULTING. ACCORSCI. Who gives a fuck what Ernie Accorsci thinks at this time? I can't help but think the Giants limited their GM search because they had a mandate that the new GM had to take a shot with Eli.
As for his drafting, I do not think it's crazy to say they have objectively been terrible.
1) Barkley - this has been discussed ad nauseum, but is a little more nuanced than people who right it off as a terrible decision now. If I'm being perfectly honest here, I absolutely hated the Barkley pick at the time due to not only the fact he was an RB, but the type of RB he was. I watched Penn State a lot and Barkley in particular with jealousy (as I'm a Rutgers fan who was so bummed he decommitted), but Barkley's propensity to dance around the line, get minimal gains on a bunch of plays, then break a big one, was evident in college. That is not the type of RB you take at #2 unless you have a great line.
Having said that, the vast majority of this board wanted Barkley or Darnold. The portion that wanted the two players who would look like the "correct" pick in hindsight (Josh Allen or Nelson) was miniscule. Nelson was a Guard and right or wrong, they don't go at the #2 overall spot, especially when you have the option of the QBs or Barkley. Allen would have been a ballsy, correct call, and kudos to the BBIers who said he'd turn out to be the best of the 4 being considered at #2 that year. I was not one of them and was totally wrong on that.
So that's a long way of saying Barkley was not the right guy to pick, but I still think the alternative would have ended up being Darnold.
2) Jones - Jones is better than he looks this season, but his ceiling is not what the #6 overall pick's ceiling should be, and is actively being lowered by being on this shitty team. If Jones went to a team with a competent O-line and some semblance of NFL caliber skill players, he'd clearly be a solid to good QB. I don't think he has the pocket presence to be a great QB, not to mention he locks onto his WRs too much and obviously turns the ball over at an insane rate. The fumbles are something that IIRC were on his scouting report from Duke, and have not improved at all.
The question is whether some of this issues have been exacerbated and whether Jones change to improve in this areas has been shot (or is actively disintegrating) due to the terrible team around him. The end result is the same though; he has not shown remotely enough to forgo a top QB if the Giants have a shot at one. He also has been bad enough (so far) that replacing him needs to be the #1 priority.
The Giants appear to be headed for a top 3 pick again. If the pick is #1, DG will likely be fired and his replacement is not going to pass up on Lawrence, period. It's not even worth arguing, it's not going to happen.
If it's #2, DG is probably fired, but I wouldn't reach to replace Jones automatically. I think the pick should be S'ua, even if it means keeping Thomas at RT. Thomas hasn't grown into being an LT yet, but again, instead of hinging your hopes that he grows into one on where the (likely fired) DG took Thomas, you need to look at it as a sunk cost, slide Thomas to RT, hope he becomes a lynchpin there, then take S'ua and hope you're solidifed bookends for a long time. Grab a center, maybe bring in some competition for Hernandez, and hope that between another guard, an aging Zeitler, Hernandez, Lemiux, and Gates, you can find 3 competent inside players.
But if the pick is #3 and Fields has another great season, I think the new GM (or DG if god forbid he is still here).
Lawrence is a good player worth of where was picked, but the roster already had Tomlinson and had more pressing needs than DT.
Regardless of what people thought of Baker at the time, he was a bad pick. It's easy for people to say "how could you know he'd be arrested for armed robbery?", but that isn't even the reason I think he was unequivocally a bad pick. He was a bad pick because not only is he off the team (regardless of the reason), he also wasn't very good when he was on the field. Yes, the light bulb may have gone on, but when you couple his on field play with the fact the character concerns fleshed themselves out and he got released, it was a bad pick.
The Wiliams and OBJ trades were not good trades. Some may agree with the timing of getting rid of OBJ, which I can get behind, because big game against Dallas notwithstanding, I do not think he looks like he is physically the same player as he was in his NYG prime. But he'd still be by far the best skill player on this offense and is still a #1 WR in the NFL. He has no chemistry with Mayfield, and keeping him around would have been extremely helpful for Jones development. The return for OBJ was not great. The picks were not used wisely as some were traded for Baker, and Peppers is not a good football player (and was not good in Cleveland). If you wanted to get two firsts for him, they should have gotten a second 1st round pick from someone, not Peppers. Eric has said that there's a chance Lawrence ends up being the best player in that trade, but unless that happens, I think we can chalk that up as a bad move.
The Williams trade is still perplexing to this day. I do not get the rationale behind it.
This turned into a huge rambling post, but I don't get what people are expecting from DG when they say to give him time and believe he can turn it around. He has shown nothing to this point to inspire confidence, and there's this cloud of pseudo-organizational-nepotism around his hire in the first place.
Good Post. Unfortunately the pitch forks, groups and sides have taken over
Look Lawrence Taylor is not on this team any more. Neither is Phil Simms or 2011 Eli Manning or Mark Bavaro. And if they were they would be slow and old.
You just have to go with this for a little while. This team is young ; I guess they are playing hard ; and they need to get better. I guess I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. What other choice do you really have?
You are going to fire Gentleman and get some guy from somewhere who is going to find some mythological players that turn a team that has sucked for 5 years into NE Patriots over night? That is not going to happen.
sign me up for that!
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He forces good football discussions off the tracks, while adding nothing of substance. I find it hard to believe that anybody could find him a "good read" since he never posts anything of value. All his posts are attacking other posters. If that is what you enjoy, well then you can have him.
Ask Pete if I've attacked him. Ask montana. Ask ryankeane. There are hundreds of posters here that I've never attacked.
But you went to the tried and true "nothing of substance" comment. What is the substance you're looking for? When I provide Gettleman's track record at Carolina and posted the specifics behind his time in Carolina - that's not adding substance? When I provide information from the Combine, that isn't substance??
It isn't that you want substance, you want agreement. You want acceptance that your opinion holds weight. You want to post something about positional value and you don't want to be challenged on it.
And apparently, you want civility. However, whether or not a post has profanity in it doesn't make it civil or not. You've flat out accused me of being a paid shill for the team. Civil?? You take unprovoked potshots at me across a number of threads and say it's OK because it is warranted. Civil?
You don't like that you've been challenged so you say there's nothing being posted "of value". The bottom line is that you've been attacked. Not everyone on the board. You. And thus the exaggeration that the majority of the board is attacked. Hell, lax counsel says I haven't even been on the board for the last 4 weeks, so perception of my posting is pretty damned warped.
Dude, you were called out by two other posters for disappearing with respect to threads regarding state of the franchise, talent, or management - something you were all over in the offseason. You then post a list of threads proving my exact point. Conveniently, you glossed over McL's and giantstock's reply to my point, where they both also called you out. You knew exactly what I meant, you were just too embarrassed to reply.
Also, I would add that opinions that are expressed as if they are fact present the person expressing them as somewhat of an expert. I have trouble connecting the reasoning on fans who have obvious suggestions for a coach, a gm etc who more than likely spend countless hours at their job. That it isn't to say that a fan could never be right about their suggestions, but going back to what I said above the certainty of which that suggestion is expressed considering the experience and background of most fans doesn't seem logical to me anyway.
As for Gettleman, I certainly wouldn't call myself a defender of Gettleman, but more a defender of letting adequate time reveal a better picture before making a hard decision. Considering all logical routes a decision could go on it's way to it's final destination as well as surrounding circumstances. I do not find this to be unreasonable, however if I am missing something feel free to point it out, however only in a honest fashion. Gettleman mocking the analytical question at the Shurmur press conference was hardly worth it as it has caused a great resistance from those that have a passion for analytics. Although I am not sure he was actually mocking analytics, more so mocking those that do not understand analytics, as if analytics has some magical, easy answer for everything. I find that mocking to be accurate if in fact that is what Gettleman was mocking.
I would also like to add the question. How many personnel decisions do we obviously lacked analytical guidance? I personally don't know. It's a fair question to consider. In the end Gettleman should be judged by the roster he constructed with adequate time, and it certainly isn't looking good for him.
Actually, I wish we can go back to the end of the 2017 season. Wish i can go back an read the threads on how this team was going to be so much better with the "inmates" being traded. I like to see ho many people that are vilifying DG now were all on board when he was dismantling the team. Because, if you backed what he did then, this is the result that you reaped!
What's the difference in this team and the one 3 years ago. Those who were crowing about DG's draft were light years better than Reese. Take a look at Greg's post. That 18 and 19 draft ain't looking to rosy now is it?
To your question GT about the process and discussing it, that's the elephant in the room that no one want to admit.
John Mara is just as involved as Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder when it comes down to football operations and decisions. Maybe not to the extent that they do, but is is thoroughly involved. So that "process" is never going to change. Why yo think DG was hired on the first place? He knows the dynamics of the involvement of John and Chris Mara
Absurd, isn't it? The Mara Family has been involved in the NFL for nearly a century, but it's up to fans on a message board to identify GM candidates from a pool of people we can't even begin to fathom, because John Mara is either incapable or unwilling to ever deviate from the line-of-succession that has been in place for 4 decades.
I don't have a recommendation for GM because that's not my job and I'm not privy to any reasonable list of candidates. It's John Mara's job to find the right GM, and it's the GM's job to IMPROVE THE TEAM. Point blank.
Spot on, GoTerps, per usual. The process is broken, and a fresh prospective is needed. Perhaps that's Judge, but we'll see.
Do you need someone else to admit that to know it is true? Honestly, why do you give a a flying fuck if FMiC admits he was wrong about anything?
The fact fact that so many of you give him so much power over you is just silly.
Fucking LET IT GO.
At the end of the year the owners will look at the Giants of the year and decide if DG stays or goes. 3 years for a GM is probably on the short side historically but I think it will be fair in this case. I also think he will be judged on Daniel Jones and the state of the OL....Wait for it. AT THE END OF THE YEAR.
AS much as you all want the pitchforks to come out now, you are premature. I know, you are tired of losing. Me too. But I can read. I know what the people cutting the checks have said.
I am going to weigh in on FMiC issue. I have had a number of differences with the guy over time. I don't have any kind of war with him though. So, he has attacked some points I have made, he is just another asshole on the internet(no offense man, I am one too) I agree with him at times too. I don't get to concerned about it.
In his defense, some of you are just miserable. It feels as if you are mad after every loss and just want to say shitty things about anyone and anything. When emotionally compromised, smart people say dumb things and FMiC crucifies them. Smart people don't like that and attack back.
We are literally YEARS into something that can be boiled down to.
He called me stupid.
He called me stupid first.
Rinse and repeat and it lasts a decade.
Let it go.
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In comment 15005947 Sonic Youth said:
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And unrelated to the discussion about FMiC's posts - who cares who defends DG and who doesn't (on both sides)? There's no reason to fight with each other about this. On one hand, people are allowed to have opinions even if you disagree with them, but on the other, claiming that people are grabbing for pitchforks when the team has shown 0 improvement during his tenure also doesn't make much sense...
It might be easy for you to say. But how often have you gone back-and-forth with him while he swears at you calling you names all-the-while changing the meaning of your posts.
Fmic swearing/calling you names typically means he is pissed that you have better argument than him. It also signals that he is about to pivot to try and bail himself out.
He is nothing if not predictable.
But yeah, trust me, I've been the target of his ire on many occasions - I just tend to think of it as "well that's how he posts, he does it to everyone".
We do need to focus on how we ended up with DG and Reese. I mentioned this in another post yesterday.
The issue to me is John Mara. He hired both Reese and DG and not only that, he let Acorsi make the selections for him. OR.. he was using Acorsi to provide some credibility to HIS selection making it seem to the fans that a football guy is endorsing the pick.
I believe John Mara is extremely conservative when it comes to selecting the individuals who will be the GM and the coach of this team. Image is a big thing for him apparently.
I used to laugh at Reese in his post draft press conferences when he would often refer to players as "clean". It was as if not having any baggage was a huge deal and at times more important than the on-field upside the player may offer. Now, I feel like that directive came from John Mara.
So, if John continues to push some of these buttons, then we will always have a GM who has some ties to the organization.
Now, all of that said... we never did have another guy who we thought was a slam dunk selection for our GM. For those who want to fire DG now I get it but we must decide WHO is a viable replacement. It has to be a realistic selection and someone who is not currently a GM for another team. Not so easy...
However, at this point, it's very irritating to see people try to blame Reese to give DG a pass. At the end of the day, I'm going to look back at the Reese era a lot more fondly than the DG era.
No matter how much he sucked at the end of his tenure, the Giants won two superbowls under his watch. I really don't get when people say DG has been better than Reese when the Giants record clearly shows he has not been.
Regardless of the state of the team when DG took over, they have not improved AT ALL, and the roster is unequivocally LESS talented.
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Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton, who is at the very least a solid role player on a good team, and at beast, has shown the ceiling of a borderline #1/#2 on a functional offense. I think a realistic place he ends up is a solid #2 if this team can turn around.
2) Drafting Lawrence, who is already a good player but has the potential to continue to ascend, although this is partially tainted because he was part of the OBJ trade, which is a mixed
you can add a few more... Bradberry and Martinez for example. Our new kicker is working out well.. lol
But on the flip side of that, Solder, Omameh, the Ogletree trade... bad moves.
Also, I would add that opinions that are expressed as if they are fact present the person expressing them as somewhat of an expert. I have trouble connecting the reasoning on fans who have obvious suggestions for a coach, a gm etc who more than likely spend countless hours at their job. That it isn't to say that a fan could never be right about their suggestions, but going back to what I said above the certainty of which that suggestion is expressed considering the experience and background of most fans doesn't seem logical to me anyway.
Crick from my POV, it's just an internet fan site so the "Default" is already in place that all posts are opinion and the poster is not an expert. That still may not fit your (or others) conversational taste but that is up to each reader.
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The certainty at which opinions are often expressed on this board leave little room for good conversation. The often used retort to what I just have outlined is, "of course we're all expressing opinions". Well, if that is the case, why not express it that way? To me, how something is expressed is the foundation for the conversation. Opinions that are expressed with absolute certainty with little to zero doubt for any contrary information is quite the one way conversation.
Also, I would add that opinions that are expressed as if they are fact present the person expressing them as somewhat of an expert. I have trouble connecting the reasoning on fans who have obvious suggestions for a coach, a gm etc who more than likely spend countless hours at their job. That it isn't to say that a fan could never be right about their suggestions, but going back to what I said above the certainty of which that suggestion is expressed considering the experience and background of most fans doesn't seem logical to me anyway.
Crick from my POV, it's just an internet fan site so the "Default" is already in place that all posts are opinion and the poster is not an expert. That still may not fit your (or others) conversational taste but that is up to each reader.
I actually appreciate the way you chose to express your POV. I see your POV and do not feel as if you're forcing your opinion on me which bothers me a great deal. To each their own.
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Only if his OL comes over with him.
The Cowboys line yesterday was an utter disaster, and Elliot ran hard and was productive. Look at Freeman behind this line, then imagine one of the best in the business hitting the hole hard.
At some point it can’t be summarily dismissed that Barkley has gained 37% of his career yards on fewer than 25 plays and something like half his carries have gone for 1 yard or less. He’s got a hole in his game.
Maybe Russian Roulette is the better description, a revolver aimed at the head of the head coach.
Remember all those complaints about Shurmur getting away from Barkley in second halves. Hmmm.....
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In comment 15006011 giantstock said:
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In comment 15005947 Sonic Youth said:
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And unrelated to the discussion about FMiC's posts - who cares who defends DG and who doesn't (on both sides)? There's no reason to fight with each other about this. On one hand, people are allowed to have opinions even if you disagree with them, but on the other, claiming that people are grabbing for pitchforks when the team has shown 0 improvement during his tenure also doesn't make much sense...
It might be easy for you to say. But how often have you gone back-and-forth with him while he swears at you calling you names all-the-while changing the meaning of your posts.
Fmic swearing/calling you names typically means he is pissed that you have better argument than him. It also signals that he is about to pivot to try and bail himself out.
He is nothing if not predictable.
FMiC has cursed me out tons of times. I have no idea why he's so angry all the time to be honest, and he's an incredibly abrasive poster. He's not my favorite at all, but it just seems pointless to go back and forth over things like how much he's been posting on the board.
But yeah, trust me, I've been the target of his ire on many occasions - I just tend to think of it as "well that's how he posts, he does it to everyone".
Why is this acceptable though? This isn't a faceless ESPN message board, it's one meant to foster the free exchange of opinions, generally in regard to the Giants - people literally donate to keep the site running. There are several different thoughts on the Giants, all of which are valid. I've disagreed with posters and vice versa. Same goes for other posters, yet it rarely devolves into the level of discourse brought about by FMiC. There's also some integrity behind the posts. At least stand by your original opinions, without trying to do an about face and wordsmith your prior posts, when called out.
I have my opinions, we all do. Most on the board stand by them, with one notable exception called out multiple times today. Listen, I really liked Darnold. I thought he would be very good. I was completely wrong, and I own that. Maybe he'd be better in another situation I don't know. There are posters who saw his flaws, and I applaud them for that. See, its not hard.
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In comment 15005947 Sonic Youth said:
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Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton, who is at the very least a solid role player on a good team, and at beast, has shown the ceiling of a borderline #1/#2 on a functional offense. I think a realistic place he ends up is a solid #2 if this team can turn around.
2) Drafting Lawrence, who is already a good player but has the potential to continue to ascend, although this is partially tainted because he was part of the OBJ trade, which is a mixed
you can add a few more... Bradberry and Martinez for example. Our new kicker is working out well.. lol
Fair enough. My post was definitely not well organized, and I think at the outset I was thinking more about the draft. Bradberry and Martinez were good signings, both of which have worked out better than I anticipated.
But on the flip side of that, Solder, Omameh, the Ogletree trade... bad moves.
Yes, and I would tend to agree with you in there were many bad moves. He did make more than just a couple of moves that worked out. In the end, not enough of them for sure.
On Solder, I am trying to rewind and look at it from the day he made that deal. We were coming off of a season where the consensus was we had the worst OL in football AND we had a left tackle in Flowers who was viewed as the worst in football.
At that moment, the free agent options were not great. Plus, what we do not know is whether any of the other free agents wanted to come here. Solder may have been our third choice. All we know is that we signed Solder.
Solder did not look this bad on film the prior year with the Pats. In my opinion, we were in a position where we had to overpay a guy to HOPEFULLY improve the OL. Sounds like bullshit but I think that is what we were dealing with at that time.
So my question is: why doesn’t Mara essentially have his HC or GM selected based on real information - not interview theatrics- before the search even begins? By real information: real intelligence from leading NFL minds who are encouraged to speak honestly. Mara has access to these people. Is he getting the information and using it properly? I am skeptical he is.
So what I’d like to see is: No short list. No formal interviews. Talk to the right people to find out who the really bright personnel people are to replace DG. Then have an informal meeting with them before the position even becomes open to make sure there is a fit and that you’re not hiring a sociopath. Then announce the hire.
That’s my two cents.
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I would talk about the process that hired him, and how to improve that. Put a process in place that goes beyond nepotism and cronyism, and you're likely to end up with a better list of candidates.
I have a comment about this. Mara’s statements after hiring Judge left me puzzled, that he was a terrific interview and that got him hired. I realize communication skills are an important part of head coaching but there are a lot of losers out there who can talk well to mask their incompetence.
So my question is: why doesn’t Mara essentially have his HC or GM selected based on real information - not interview theatrics- before the search even begins? By real information: real intelligence from leading NFL minds who are encouraged to speak honestly. Mara has access to these people. Is he getting the information and using it properly? I am skeptical he is.
So what I’d like to see is: No short list. No formal interviews. Talk to the right people to find out who the really bright personnel people are to replace DG. Then have an informal meeting with them before the position even becomes open to make sure there is a fit and that you’re not hiring a sociopath. Then announce the hire.
That’s my two cents.
I think John Mara indicated he had spoken to Belichick about Judge several times, and even before meeting with him.
Just saying, my two cents.
I think John Mara indicated he had spoken to Belichick about Judge several times, and even before meeting with him.
Just saying, my two cents.
I agree in that the interview was likely what put Judge over the top but the guy likely received a heavy endorsement from BB. At this point, I trust BB more than Acorsi when it comes to recommendations. I am sure he provided a similar recommendation to the Titans when they hired their coach....
His brother Chris is the SR VP of Player Personnel since 2012. His nephew Tim McDonnell is the Assistant Director of Player Personnel - yet another Mara whose only qualification for his job is being a Mara. He's worked for the Giants in the football operation since 2013. He reports to Ken Sternfeld who has been the Director of Player Personnel since 2012. See a pattern here? Can you imagine those 3 guys with their track record still employed by any other NFL team?
That's why Gettleman got the job. Because before he left the Giants he worked with all those guys and understands that GM of Giants is a middle management job and where the real power is. Not because Ernie recommended him.
That's why Abrams was going to be the next GM when there was a soft landing for Gettleman. Now that it's going end so ugly for Gettleman John Mara will probably try to find another middle manager to take the heat and occasionally speak to the media while his family continues to run the roster of the football team and pick the coaches.
I think that is a bit extreme Arnie..
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John Mara will probably try to find another middle manager to take the heat and occasionally speak to the media while his family continues to run the roster of the football team and pick the coaches.
I think that is a bit extreme Arnie..
They definitely pick the coaches, I don’t think that’s even debatable.
How much they are involved in player moves is unknown but I find it highly unlikely that owners in high roles in the org are taking a back seat.
However, we also know that doesn't seem likely to change, at least not materially, no matter what you think and do not know.
So your best hope as a fan who thinks the family is in the way, is to find a better GM that can handle the above dynamic and add more value to the process of running the team than DG has.
Or find another another team to follow.
If the on the field losing starts impacting the finances of the more passive owners, they could force a change.
As for me, I would probably just stop following the NFL as opposed to rooting for another team. I’m not there yet, but an Abrams promotion and more losing could push me over the edge.
We have no idea if the people who are the Giants SR VP PP. The Director of PP and the assistant Director PP are good or bad at their jobs that they've had since 2012?
Well their track record of draft picks and free agent signings is a place to start but if that confuses you how about their won loss record?
I think we all know. Hell they even know.
If the on the field losing starts impacting the finances of the more passive owners, they could force a change.
As for me, I would probably just stop following the NFL as opposed to rooting for another team. I’m not there yet, but an Abrams promotion and more losing could push me over the edge.
Maybe.
And, imv, I think DG will be "retired" if the Giants lose their next two divisional games, and Abrams will be named interim-GM.
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Whether they are good, bad or indifferent at those roles, poster here have no idea
We have no idea if the people who are the Giants SR VP PP. The Director of PP and the assistant Director PP are good or bad at their jobs that they've had since 2012?
Well their track record of draft picks and free agent signings is a place to start but if that confuses you how about their won loss record?
I think we all know. Hell they even know.
Was I being too nice again?
I got really stop that.
Organization needs a major overhaul.
We have blown so many number 1 picks over the past 8 years that should be the cornerstone of this team
It feels like the late 60’s and 70’s all over again.
It does feel a lot like the 70s again with this team.
I've said repeatedly that Gettleman has made some poor moves. But that he also inherited a team that was in a terrible state.
Are you really saying that the record of a team is the indicator of if a GM is doing well or not?? Funny, because Yankee fans want their GM run out of town.
I said that this year was a critical one in if the team is heading in the right direction. If we miss the playoffs and are at the bottom of the league again - he needs to go, not because of the record but because after three years, we still aren't in a competitive position.
The record of the team over three years isn't a reasonable indicator if a GM is doing well or not?
Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton, who is at the very least a solid role player on a good team, and at beast, has shown the ceiling of a borderline #1/#2 on a functional offense. I think a realistic place he ends up is a solid #2 if this team can turn around.
2) Drafting Lawrence, who is already a good player but has the potential to continue to ascend, although this is partially tainted because he was part of the OBJ trade, which is a mixed
LOL on the FGBag... Freudian I think...
As far as who supports or defends DG, and who opposes him, I don't really care either. Differing points of view is what makes a good football debate.
It's just that some won't tolerate a different POV, without resorting to aggressive posting (to coin a phrase)
this...
It has to be somebody with some cahones, and enough credibility to back it up.
Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton, who is at the very least a solid role player on a good team, and at beast, has shown the ceiling of a borderline #1/#2 on a functional offense. I think a realistic place he ends up is a solid #2 if this team can turn around.
2) Drafting Lawrence, who is already a good player but has the potential to continue to ascend, although this is partially tainted because he was part of the OBJ trade, which is a mixed bag.
3) Finding Ryan Connelly, which is moot since he's gone.
The thing that's maddening to me about DG is that when he trades away talent, he doesn't seem to have a solid plan in place to replace it. The team he inherited had JPP, OBJ, Vernon, and Snacks. Of those, he oddly only seemed to have a plan to replace the whole created by Snacks.
Many have talked about the failure to remotely fix the OL and the awful plan for the OL this season, which is true, but the lack of investment in pass rushers is even glaringly more obvious to me.
Many applauded the JPP trade at the time but I really don't get what the rationale was there. He wasn't massively overpaid and has produced in Tampa Bay. Again, that production hasn't been replaced. The prevailing thought was that JPP could not play in a 3-4, which I do not think is accurate.
The Vernon for Zeitler trade was at least a decent move that paid off some dividends before Zeitler began to break down, but once again, no plan to replace what Vernon gave us when he was on the field.
As for Flowers, I, like many, was happy when he was cut; having said that, nobody thought to at least try him out at Guard before cutting him? In fairness though, he likely needed a change of scenery to get to where he is today.
I can't speak too much regarding his tenure w the Panthers, and granted they did go 15-1 and reach the Superbowl, but I do recall him trading away talent there - Josh Norman, Steve Smith - but it seems he was able to at least address those roster spots with some reinforcements.
On a second overarching note, taking a shot with Eli was a really stupid decision. McAdoo was right to bench him when he did - the problem was that he played Geno, not Lauletta, which was just as pointless. However, DG was probably hired by the Maras because he was willing to take a shot with Eli. This is where my problem with NYG's ownership is really underscored. This "keep it in the family" approach is asinine and needs to end. The next GM cannot be Abrams. Chris Mara needs to back the fuck off football operations. And they need to STOP. CONSULTING. ACCORSCI. Who gives a fuck what Ernie Accorsci thinks at this time? I can't help but think the Giants limited their GM search because they had a mandate that the new GM had to take a shot with Eli.
As for his drafting, I do not think it's crazy to say they have objectively been terrible.
1) Barkley - this has been discussed ad nauseum, but is a little more nuanced than people who right it off as a terrible decision now. If I'm being perfectly honest here, I absolutely hated the Barkley pick at the time due to not only the fact he was an RB, but the type of RB he was. I watched Penn State a lot and Barkley in particular with jealousy (as I'm a Rutgers fan who was so bummed he decommitted), but Barkley's propensity to dance around the line, get minimal gains on a bunch of plays, then break a big one, was evident in college. That is not the type of RB you take at #2 unless you have a great line.
Having said that, the vast majority of this board wanted Barkley or Darnold. The portion that wanted the two players who would look like the "correct" pick in hindsight (Josh Allen or Nelson) was miniscule. Nelson was a Guard and right or wrong, they don't go at the #2 overall spot, especially when you have the option of the QBs or Barkley. Allen would have been a ballsy, correct call, and kudos to the BBIers who said he'd turn out to be the best of the 4 being considered at #2 that year. I was not one of them and was totally wrong on that.
So that's a long way of saying Barkley was not the right guy to pick, but I still think the alternative would have ended up being Darnold.
2) Jones - Jones is better than he looks this season, but his ceiling is not what the #6 overall pick's ceiling should be, and is actively being lowered by being on this shitty team. If Jones went to a team with a competent O-line and some semblance of NFL caliber skill players, he'd clearly be a solid to good QB. I don't think he has the pocket presence to be a great QB, not to mention he locks onto his WRs too much and obviously turns the ball over at an insane rate. The fumbles are something that IIRC were on his scouting report from Duke, and have not improved at all.
The question is whether some of this issues have been exacerbated and whether Jones change to improve in this areas has been shot (or is actively disintegrating) due to the terrible team around him. The end result is the same though; he has not shown remotely enough to forgo a top QB if the Giants have a shot at one. He also has been bad enough (so far) that replacing him needs to be the #1 priority.
The Giants appear to be headed for a top 3 pick again. If the pick is #1, DG will likely be fired and his replacement is not going to pass up on Lawrence, period. It's not even worth arguing, it's not going to happen.
If it's #2, DG is probably fired, but I wouldn't reach to replace Jones automatically. I think the pick should be S'ua, even if it means keeping Thomas at RT. Thomas hasn't grown into being an LT yet, but again, instead of hinging your hopes that he grows into one on where the (likely fired) DG took Thomas, you need to look at it as a sunk cost, slide Thomas to RT, hope he becomes a lynchpin there, then take S'ua and hope you're solidifed bookends for a long time. Grab a center, maybe bring in some competition for Hernandez, and hope that between another guard, an aging Zeitler, Hernandez, Lemiux, and Gates, you can find 3 competent inside players.
But if the pick is #3 and Fields has another great season, I think the new GM (or DG if god forbid he is still here).
Lawrence is a good player worth of where was picked, but the roster already had Tomlinson and had more pressing needs than DT.
Regardless of what people thought of Baker at the time, he was a bad pick. It's easy for people to say "how could you know he'd be arrested for armed robbery?", but that isn't even the reason I think he was unequivocally a bad pick. He was a bad pick because not only is he off the team (regardless of the reason), he also wasn't very good when he was on the field. Yes, the light bulb may have gone on, but when you couple his on field play with the fact the character concerns fleshed themselves out and he got released, it was a bad pick.
The Wiliams and OBJ trades were not good trades. Some may agree with the timing of getting rid of OBJ, which I can get behind, because big game against Dallas notwithstanding, I do not think he looks like he is physically the same player as he was in his NYG prime. But he'd still be by far the best skill player on this offense and is still a #1 WR in the NFL. He has no chemistry with Mayfield, and keeping him around would have been extremely helpful for Jones development. The return for OBJ was not great. The picks were not used wisely as some were traded for Baker, and Peppers is not a good football player (and was not good in Cleveland). If you wanted to get two firsts for him, they should have gotten a second 1st round pick from someone, not Peppers. Eric has said that there's a chance Lawrence ends up being the best player in that trade, but unless that happens, I think we can chalk that up as a bad move.
The Williams trade is still perplexing to this day. I do not get the rationale behind it.
This turned into a huge rambling post, but I don't get what people are expecting from DG when they say to give him time and believe he can turn it around. He has shown nothing to this point to inspire confidence, and there's this cloud of pseudo-organizational-nepotism around his hire in the first place.
good post... yes a bit rambling, but I read it all.
I think you will find a lot of agreement from a number of posters, including myself.
Couple of minor points:
I agree that Barkley was a poor fit/timing for the Giants, he needed to go to a team with SB aspirations, with a good line looking for a playmaker to take them over the top. That said, don't discount the taking a RB too high argument either, there is evidence to back up that POV.
The thought on JPP was 2-fold I think. THat he could not play in a 3-4 (dubious), but that his hand and other injuries was going to hamper or continue to hamper his play and he wasn't going to play up to his contract. Apparently this line of thinking was wrong. DG was closer to this situation, and should have had a better handle on it.
Regarding OBJ, many of us thought he should have been traded BEFORE being resigned. The cap dollars invested and lost played a role in holding the team back.
- the super bowl panthers team had 9/22 starters make the pro bowl - gettleman was responsible for bringing in 1 of the 9
- he let josh norman and steve smith go with no real plan on replacing them
- his last year, the year after the super bowl, they went from 15-1 to 6-10
and we all know the story with the moves he's made here and i'm not even going to touch barkley at #2 and jones at #6
-took a 23.2m cap hit, forgoing 11m in cap savings so eli could play 3 games in front of your #6 pick
- 3rd round pick on sam beal
- used 3 picks to draft deandre baker
- traded 2 picks for alec ogletree less than 5 months after the rams extended him at 4/42.8m
- traded 2 picks for leonard williams at the deadline last year when they were 2-6
- signed golden tate to 4/37.5m with 23m guaranteed
- signed jonathan stewart to a two year deal the same offseason he drafted barkley
- signed beckham, paid him 40m for one year, then traded him without letting the league know he was available
- signed omameh to be a starter at 3/15 and cut him midway through his first year here
- free agents he's committed at least 10m to since he got the job - bradberry, martinez, tate, solder, kareem martin, omameh
the team is bereft of talent and we've had three straight years of top 6 picks - how is that possible when you've had
4 of the top 70 picks in 2018
5 of the top 95 picks in 2019, including 3 first rounders
His brother Chris is the SR VP of Player Personnel since 2012. His nephew Tim McDonnell is the Assistant Director of Player Personnel - yet another Mara whose only qualification for his job is being a Mara. He's worked for the Giants in the football operation since 2013. He reports to Ken Sternfeld who has been the Director of Player Personnel since 2012. See a pattern here? Can you imagine those 3 guys with their track record still employed by any other NFL team?
That's why Gettleman got the job. Because before he left the Giants he worked with all those guys and understands that GM of Giants is a middle management job and where the real power is. Not because Ernie recommended him.
That's why Abrams was going to be the next GM when there was a soft landing for Gettleman. Now that it's going end so ugly for Gettleman John Mara will probably try to find another middle manager to take the heat and occasionally speak to the media while his family continues to run the roster of the football team and pick the coaches.
Exactly what I posted but a lot better.
People can bitch and moan about the process and what GM is a better etc, but are sure short sighted. This is the issue. Everyone that has been in place the last 20 years are still in place.
They may change a scout or 2 (one was promoted and then fired) but the infrastructure of the organization is still the same as it always been.
I think we should really appreciate what Reese has done here. Dealing with the family business and still scouting great talent for years before becoming GM. That he was able to navigate this family maze makes it that more remarkable.
But yet people keep yelling at the moon thinking it's the GM!..
- the super bowl panthers team had 9/22 starters make the pro bowl - gettleman was responsible for bringing in 1 of the 9
- he let josh norman and steve smith go with no real plan on replacing them
- his last year, the year after the super bowl, they went from 15-1 to 6-10
and we all know the story with the moves he's made here and i'm not even going to touch barkley at #2 and jones at #6
-took a 23.2m cap hit, forgoing 11m in cap savings so eli could play 3 games in front of your #6 pick
- 3rd round pick on sam beal
- used 3 picks to draft deandre baker
- traded 2 picks for alec ogletree less than 5 months after the rams extended him at 4/42.8m
- traded 2 picks for leonard williams at the deadline last year when they were 2-6
- signed golden tate to 4/37.5m with 23m guaranteed
- signed jonathan stewart to a two year deal the same offseason he drafted barkley
- signed beckham, paid him 40m for one year, then traded him without letting the league know he was available
- signed omameh to be a starter at 3/15 and cut him midway through his first year here
- free agents he's committed at least 10m to since he got the job - bradberry, martinez, tate, solder, kareem martin, omameh
the team is bereft of talent and we've had three straight years of top 6 picks - how is that possible when you've had
4 of the top 70 picks in 2018
5 of the top 95 picks in 2019, including 3 first rounders
Solid facts that DG supporters don't have an arguement for.. Tate was a god awful signing.. even at the time we signed him.. Then we got lucky and he got caught so we could've voided the contract.. what did we do? after a sub par season we continued with the overpaid contract..
While he's invested a ton in the DL - it's average at best IMO. And there's no clear cut pass rusher.
On the other side, again, he's invested in both the draft and trades...and just looks like a mess. There are small glimpses of improvement. Very small.
But most glaring is the fact he drafted Barkely over Josh Allen. That was a mistake.
Barkley was the easy pick. Allen was the right pick.
Three years later, we could be looking at a 2-3 team. Again.
Gettleman does not deserve to make that pick in 2021.
It's not necessarily all his fault - there is some luck involved - but you have to take the entire package.
Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton,
2) Drafting Lawrence,
3) Finding Ryan Connelly,
The thing that's maddening to me about DG is that when he trades away talent, he doesn't seem to have a solid plan in place to replace it. The team he inherited had JPP, OBJ, Vernon, and Snacks. Of those, he oddly only seemed to have a plan to replace the whole created by Snacks.
Many have talked about the failure to remotely fix the OL and the awful plan for the OL this season, which is true, but the lack of investment in pass rushers is even glaringly more obvious to me.
Many applauded the JPP trade at the time but I really don't get what the rationale was there. He wasn't massively overpaid and has produced in Tampa Bay. Again, that production hasn't been replaced. The prevailing thought was that JPP could not play in a 3-4, which I do not think is accurate.
The Vernon for Zeitler trade was at least a decent move that paid off some dividends before Zeitler began to break down, but once again, no plan to replace what Vernon gave us when he was on the field.
As for Flowers, I, like many, was happy when he was cut; having said that, nobody thought to at least try him out at Guard before cutting him? In fairness though, he likely needed a change of scenery to get to where he is today.
I can't speak too much regarding his tenure w the Panthers, and granted they did go 15-1 and reach the Superbowl, but I do recall him trading away talent there - Josh Norman, Steve Smith - but it seems he was able to at least address those roster spots with some reinforcements.
On a second overarching note, taking a shot with Eli was a really stupid decision. McAdoo was right to bench him when he did - the problem was that he played Geno, not Lauletta, which was just as pointless. However, DG was probably hired by the Maras because he was willing to take a shot with Eli. This is where my problem with NYG's ownership is really underscored. This "keep it in the family" approach is asinine and needs to end. The next GM cannot be Abrams. Chris Mara needs to back the fuck off football operations. And they need to STOP. CONSULTING. ACCORSCI. Who gives a fuck what Ernie Accorsci thinks at this time? I can't help but think the Giants limited their GM search because they had a mandate that the new GM had to take a shot with Eli.
As for his drafting, I do not think it's crazy to say they have objectively been terrible.
1) Barkley - this has been discussed ad nauseum, but is a little more nuanced than people who right it off as a terrible decision now. If I'm being perfectly honest here, I absolutely hated the Barkley pick at the time due to not only the fact he was an RB, but the type of RB he was. I watched Penn State a lot and Barkley in particular with jealousy (as I'm a Rutgers fan who was so bummed he decommitted), but Barkley's propensity to dance around the line, get minimal gains on a bunch of plays, then break a big one, was evident in college. That is not the type of RB you take at #2 unless you have a great line.
Having said that, the vast majority of this board wanted Barkley or Darnold. The portion that wanted the two players who would look like the "correct" pick in hindsight (Josh Allen or Nelson) was miniscule. Nelson was a Guard and right or wrong, they don't go at the #2 overall spot, especially when you have the option of the QBs or Barkley. Allen would have been a ballsy, correct call, and kudos to the BBIers who said he'd turn out to be the best of the 4 being considered at #2 that year. I was not one of them and was totally wrong on that.
So that's a long way of saying Barkley was not the right guy to pick, but I still think the alternative would have ended up being Darnold.
2) Jones - Jones is better than he looks this season, but his ceiling is not what the #6 overall pick's ceiling should be, and is actively being lowered by being on this shitty team. If Jones went to a team with a competent O-line and some semblance of NFL caliber skill players, he'd clearly be a solid to good QB. I don't think he has the pocket presence to be a great QB, not to mention he locks onto his WRs too much and obviously turns the ball over at an insane rate. The fumbles are something that IIRC were on his scouting report from Duke, and have not improved at all.
The question is whether some of this issues have been exacerbated and whether Jones change to improve in this areas has been shot (or is actively disintegrating) due to the terrible team around him. The end result is the same though; he has not shown remotely enough to forgo a top QB if the Giants have a shot at one. He also has been bad enough (so far) that replacing him needs to be the #1 priority.
The Giants appear to be headed for a top 3 pick again. If the pick is #1, DG will likely be fired and his replacement is not going to pass up on Lawrence, period. It's not even worth arguing, it's not going to happen.
If it's #2, DG is probably fired, but I wouldn't reach to replace Jones automatically. I think the pick should be S'ua, even if it means keeping Thomas at RT. Thomas hasn't grown into being an LT yet, but again, instead of hinging your hopes that he grows into one on where the (likely fired) DG took Thomas, you need to look at it as a sunk cost, slide Thomas to RT, hope he becomes a lynchpin there, then take S'ua and hope you're solidifed bookends for a long time. Grab a center, maybe bring in some competition for Hernandez, and hope that between another guard, an aging Zeitler, Hernandez, Lemiux, and Gates, you can find 3 competent inside players.
But if the pick is #3 and Fields has another great season, I think the new GM (or DG if god forbid he is still here).
Lawrence is a good player worth of where was picked, but the roster already had Tomlinson and had more pressing needs than DT.
Regardless of what people thought of Baker at the time, he was a bad pick. It's easy for people to say "how could you know he'd be arrested for armed robbery?", but that isn't even the reason I think he was unequivocally a bad pick. He was a bad pick because not only is he off the team (regardless of the reason), he also wasn't very good when he was on the field. Yes, the light bulb may have gone on, but when you couple his on field play with the fact the character concerns fleshed themselves out and he got released, it was a bad pick.
The Wiliams and OBJ trades were not good trades. Some may agree with the timing of getting rid of OBJ, which I can get behind, because big game against Dallas notwithstanding, I do not think he looks like he is physically the same player as he was in his NYG prime. But he'd still be by far the best skill player on this offense and is still a #1 WR in the NFL. He has no chemistry with Mayfield, and keeping him around would have been extremely helpful for Jones development. The return for OBJ was not great. The picks were not used wisely as some were traded for Baker, and Peppers is not a good football player (and was not good in Cleveland). If you wanted to get two firsts for him, they should have gotten a second 1st round pick from someone, not Peppers. Eric has said that there's a chance Lawrence ends up being the best player in that trade, but unless that happens, I think we can chalk that up as a bad move.
The Williams trade is still perplexing to this day. I do not get the rationale behind it.
This turned into a huge rambling post, but I don't get what people are expecting from DG when they say to give him time and believe he can turn it around. He has shown nothing to this point to inspire confidence, and there's this cloud of pseudo-organizational-nepotism around his hire in the first place.
Sonic you took on a lot with that post, but like many including myself at times I think you're taking liberty with hindsight. And misremembering in spots.
The 1st thing to jump out at me was replacing what Vernon gave us on the field. Vernon was barely on the field and when he was he is the King of Almost sacks ( a lot like Williams now Which is part of your post I TOTALLY agree with). With Flowers they wanted him to move and try other spots but the rumor was he was unwilling. The Eli point was botched. Not just from an opinion stand point but McAdoo didn't have Lauletta he had Webb and I believe the thought was that he wasn't good enough so he thought Geno would be better. I mean really, this was bad. And with OBJ trade I disagree. I mean do you think his attitude after last season and this would have helped Jones development? Jones would HAVE to be staring down OBJ to get him the ball. He's lost a step and honestly we're talking about one good game. Some misremembering definetly.
But I agree, they do have to move on from DG and to others points I think the process has to be completely different and a lot better. Either way, like your post, this season is going to be long and rambling.
Not just any MLB GM but the one who just lost to a team with 20% of his teams payroll in an uncapped sport. The MLB GM who has won 1 world series while spending 2 billion in payroll while his biggest rival has won 4 world series.
That's the record he's excited about?
Gettleman is going to get 3 full seasons as GM of the Giants and he'll be lucky to finish 12-36. He is exactly what his record says he is.
He called me stupid.
He called me stupid first.
Rinse and repeat and it lasts a decade.
Let it go.
I wasn't going to post anything anymore regarding FmiC but your post deserves a reply. In addition it deserves a football question to you pertaining to this thread. If you are okay with FMiC then great. I derived pleasure in sticking it to him. I don't care that you don't want to hear it. But, not only personal because he also makes things personal but what you fail to understand is that you're the one taking it way too personal. There's more than attacking him for "warm" personality. Why do you care some are going at it with him? He can stick up for himself.
But what you're missing is his 1st post on this thread.
It's still incredibly ignorant. And if you can't see the comedy in his 1st comment add that up with him shortly after on the same thread started asking on the same thread when did he ever stick up for Gettleman - then maybe you're a Dead Head that partied during too many shows.
Let me ask you this a football question and pertaining to the thread subject-- if you are so above it all- tell what you think of his 1st post on this thread questioning why was this past game vs Dallas indicative of the GM? DO you think the game was or wasn't indicative of the GM and why?
Quote:
He called me stupid.
He called me stupid first.
Rinse and repeat and it lasts a decade.
Let it go.
I wasn't going to post anything anymore regarding FmiC but your post deserves a reply. In addition it deserves a football question to you pertaining to this thread. If you are okay with FMiC then great. I derived pleasure in sticking it to him. I don't care that you don't want to hear it. But, not only personal because he also makes things personal but what you fail to understand is that you're the one taking it way too personal. There's more than attacking him for "warm" personality. Why do you care some are going at it with him? He can stick up for himself.
But what you're missing is his 1st post on this thread.
It's still incredibly ignorant. And if you can't see the comedy in his 1st comment add that up with him shortly after on the same thread started asking on the same thread when did he ever stick up for Gettleman - then maybe you're a Dead Head that partied during too many shows.
Let me ask you this a football question and pertaining to the thread subject-- if you are so above it all- tell what you think of his 1st post on this thread questioning why was this past game vs Dallas indicative of the GM? DO you think the game was or wasn't indicative of the GM and why?
I had time to reflect back on it, and it's actually incredible that he posed a defense of Gettleman...in the same thread where he later asks where he ever defended Gettleman. He then responds to a post calling him out for being non-existent on this thread for weeks (with the exception of meaningless non-giants topics) with a copy of threads that supported the fact that he's been hiding. Its as if he occupies an alternative reality on this board.
Quote:
In comment 15006282 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
He called me stupid.
He called me stupid first.
Rinse and repeat and it lasts a decade.
Let it go.
I wasn't going to post anything anymore regarding FmiC but your post deserves a reply. In addition it deserves a football question to you pertaining to this thread. If you are okay with FMiC then great. I derived pleasure in sticking it to him. I don't care that you don't want to hear it. But, not only personal because he also makes things personal but what you fail to understand is that you're the one taking it way too personal. There's more than attacking him for "warm" personality. Why do you care some are going at it with him? He can stick up for himself.
But what you're missing is his 1st post on this thread.
It's still incredibly ignorant. And if you can't see the comedy in his 1st comment add that up with him shortly after on the same thread started asking on the same thread when did he ever stick up for Gettleman - then maybe you're a Dead Head that partied during too many shows.
Let me ask you this a football question and pertaining to the thread subject-- if you are so above it all- tell what you think of his 1st post on this thread questioning why was this past game vs Dallas indicative of the GM? DO you think the game was or wasn't indicative of the GM and why?
I had time to reflect back on it, and it's actually incredible that he posed a defense of Gettleman...in the same thread where he later asks where he ever defended Gettleman. He then responds to a post calling him out for being non-existent on this thread for weeks (with the exception of meaningless non-giants topics) with a copy of threads that supported the fact that he's been hiding. Its as if he occupies an alternative reality on this board.
I think FMIC is sitting back laughing. After last night I’m convinced this is a 5 year trolling. In that case insert gif of Derek Jeter’s nephew tipping his cap
The kind of posts he would typically attack which makes it all the more ironic.
Quote:
He called me stupid.
He called me stupid first.
Rinse and repeat and it lasts a decade.
Let it go.
I wasn't going to post anything anymore regarding FmiC but your post deserves a reply. In addition it deserves a football question to you pertaining to this thread. If you are okay with FMiC then great. I derived pleasure in sticking it to him. I don't care that you don't want to hear it. But, not only personal because he also makes things personal but what you fail to understand is that you're the one taking it way too personal. There's more than attacking him for "warm" personality. Why do you care some are going at it with him? He can stick up for himself.
But what you're missing is his 1st post on this thread.
It's still incredibly ignorant. And if you can't see the comedy in his 1st comment add that up with him shortly after on the same thread started asking on the same thread when did he ever stick up for Gettleman - then maybe you're a Dead Head that partied during too many shows.
Let me ask you this a football question and pertaining to the thread subject-- if you are so above it all- tell what you think of his 1st post on this thread questioning why was this past game vs Dallas indicative of the GM? DO you think the game was or wasn't indicative of the GM and why?
I think 3 years is a fair amount of time to judge a GM, not less. I will agree it looks awful right now and I think DG has likely done not one single good thing for the franchise. ALl of first round picks other than Lawrence could be busts. COULD BE, could is operative word.
I am not defending FMiC. I get tired when when people call him into a thread that has not yet devolved into people acting like they were in a dying marriage. Just to infect a new thread with animosity between people that has lasted for years. When he says something that pisses me off I tell him so and let it go. When he says something I agree with I tell him so and move on. I am embarrassed for the people waiting for something from him they are unlikely to ever receive.
But you said ...NEVER.
Right here this happened this one time, so you are fucking wrong...
It is old.
Giants suck
Giants have sucked for a long time.
We are all pissed off.
We are powerless to fix it.
So we fight.
I am suggesting we not do that.
I am not defending FMiC. I get tired when when people call him into a thread that has not yet devolved into people acting like they were in a dying marriage. Just to infect a new thread with animosity between people that has lasted for years. When he says something that pisses me off I tell him so and let it go. When he says something I agree with I tell him so and move on. I am embarrassed for the people waiting for something from him they are unlikely to ever receive.
Not even close.
This thread was started at 8:51pm on Sunday and he joined a few minutes later, on his own, with a defensive hot take. Posters naturally responded to it. By 9:07 fmic is already cursing at them and a few minutes later calling them f_k_g imbeciles.
Shift your embarrassment elsewhere please.
Quote:
In comment 15006282 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
He called me stupid.
He called me stupid first.
Rinse and repeat and it lasts a decade.
Let it go.
I wasn't going to post anything anymore regarding FmiC but your post deserves a reply. In addition it deserves a football question to you pertaining to this thread. If you are okay with FMiC then great. I derived pleasure in sticking it to him. I don't care that you don't want to hear it. But, not only personal because he also makes things personal but what you fail to understand is that you're the one taking it way too personal. There's more than attacking him for "warm" personality. Why do you care some are going at it with him? He can stick up for himself.
But what you're missing is his 1st post on this thread.
It's still incredibly ignorant. And if you can't see the comedy in his 1st comment add that up with him shortly after on the same thread started asking on the same thread when did he ever stick up for Gettleman - then maybe you're a Dead Head that partied during too many shows.
Let me ask you this a football question and pertaining to the thread subject-- if you are so above it all- tell what you think of his 1st post on this thread questioning why was this past game vs Dallas indicative of the GM? DO you think the game was or wasn't indicative of the GM and why?
I think DG has been bad. I expect at the end of the year to be with everyone with a pitchfork. I am waiting the whole year though. If the OL gels and DJ looks like he is improving I will look foolish if I act our now. This is an entire new staff and philosphy without any preseason games.
I think 3 years is a fair amount of time to judge a GM, not less. I will agree it looks awful right now and I think DG has likely done not one single good thing for the franchise. ALl of first round picks other than Lawrence could be busts. COULD BE, could is operative word.
I am not defending FMiC. I get tired when when people call him into a thread that has not yet devolved into people acting like they were in a dying marriage. Just to infect a new thread with animosity between people that has lasted for years. When he says something that pisses me off I tell him so and let it go. When he says something I agree with I tell him so and move on. I am embarrassed for the people waiting for something from him they are unlikely to ever receive.
But you said ...NEVER.
Right here this happened this one time, so you are fucking wrong...
It is old.
Giants suck
Giants have sucked for a long time.
We are all pissed off.
We are powerless to fix it.
So we fight.
I am suggesting we not do that.
"call him in"? He made the 4th post on this thread. Nobody called him in.
I agree with you that he will never change. He is who he is. However, it's a good thing that the community polices the board, and makes sure that it is known that his behavior is not acceptable, otherwise it becomes normalized, people think that is the way to behave on the board. Perhaps not you, but there are plenty of people who emulate that behavior with with anybody who disagrees with them. It makes the board unreadable and lose value. People stop debating subjects, and threads devolve into the exact behavior, "a dying marriage", to which you referred. So for the benefit of the board in general, it's a good thing that we call out behavior that we don't want becoming the new normal.
Again you are probably right, we will never see FMiC change. However, maybe we can realize a broader improvement. I.E. let him be, but, make sure people know not to join him in his antics. The are posters who it seems believe that he is the "cool kid" of BBI. Those folks need to know that he is not. Those people will only learn this if his type of behavior is periodically called out. It is up to us to police the board, it should not be Eric and the moderators, we should be able to do it ourselves.
Maybe if there wasn’t such efforts to prop up the competence of DG he wouldn’t still be in the building maybe even interfering with Judge’s genuine attempts to improve things. I suggested this in the off-season and some very intelligent posters suggested that Judge has such power that wouldn’t be a problem. Well I don’t think 0-5 is good for Judge. I don’t think the Giants having the impression that fans had faith in DG was a good thing for them. It’s very clear that whatever they feel they can get away with to keep the organizational structure in place they will do. Even if that means mediocrity is aspirational.
The thread I shared earlier in this one from 2018 is the perfect example. Those who dared to question that the Giants leaders weren’t more than capable of turning this around were made out to be conspiracy theorists. The DG plan and turnaround was inevitable. There are some that still want to make like it’s inevitable and not entirely contingent on the organization being willing to change.
Quote:
In comment 15007126 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15006282 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
He called me stupid.
He called me stupid first.
Rinse and repeat and it lasts a decade.
Let it go.
I wasn't going to post anything anymore regarding FmiC but your post deserves a reply. In addition it deserves a football question to you pertaining to this thread. If you are okay with FMiC then great. I derived pleasure in sticking it to him. I don't care that you don't want to hear it. But, not only personal because he also makes things personal but what you fail to understand is that you're the one taking it way too personal. There's more than attacking him for "warm" personality. Why do you care some are going at it with him? He can stick up for himself.
But what you're missing is his 1st post on this thread.
It's still incredibly ignorant. And if you can't see the comedy in his 1st comment add that up with him shortly after on the same thread started asking on the same thread when did he ever stick up for Gettleman - then maybe you're a Dead Head that partied during too many shows.
Let me ask you this a football question and pertaining to the thread subject-- if you are so above it all- tell what you think of his 1st post on this thread questioning why was this past game vs Dallas indicative of the GM? DO you think the game was or wasn't indicative of the GM and why?
I think DG has been bad. I expect at the end of the year to be with everyone with a pitchfork. I am waiting the whole year though. If the OL gels and DJ looks like he is improving I will look foolish if I act our now. This is an entire new staff and philosphy without any preseason games.
I think 3 years is a fair amount of time to judge a GM, not less. I will agree it looks awful right now and I think DG has likely done not one single good thing for the franchise. ALl of first round picks other than Lawrence could be busts. COULD BE, could is operative word.
I am not defending FMiC. I get tired when when people call him into a thread that has not yet devolved into people acting like they were in a dying marriage. Just to infect a new thread with animosity between people that has lasted for years. When he says something that pisses me off I tell him so and let it go. When he says something I agree with I tell him so and move on. I am embarrassed for the people waiting for something from him they are unlikely to ever receive.
But you said ...NEVER.
Right here this happened this one time, so you are fucking wrong...
It is old.
Giants suck
Giants have sucked for a long time.
We are all pissed off.
We are powerless to fix it.
So we fight.
I am suggesting we not do that.
"call him in"? He made the 4th post on this thread. Nobody called him in.
I agree with you that he will never change. He is who he is. However, it's a good thing that the community polices the board, and makes sure that it is known that his behavior is not acceptable, otherwise it becomes normalized, people think that is the way to behave on the board. Perhaps not you, but there are plenty of people who emulate that behavior with with anybody who disagrees with them. It makes the board unreadable and lose value. People stop debating subjects, and threads devolve into the exact behavior, "a dying marriage", to which you referred. So for the benefit of the board in general, it's a good thing that we call out behavior that we don't want becoming the new normal.
Again you are probably right, we will never see FMiC change. However, maybe we can realize a broader improvement. I.E. let him be, but, make sure people know not to join him in his antics. The are posters who it seems believe that he is the "cool kid" of BBI. Those folks need to know that he is not. Those people will only learn this if his type of behavior is periodically called out. It is up to us to police the board, it should not be Eric and the moderators, we should be able to do it ourselves.
Very well said McL and that was the entire point of the posters calling him out on this thread. Most posters do not care to engage with him at all, I know I didn't for some time as it just wasn't productive toward advancing the conversation. His behavior is completely unacceptable and more so the lack of integrity behind his posts is problematic.
He also has this nasty pattern the past two years of not posting anything on Giants related threads when the losing starts during the season (i.e., hiding), only to reappear on similar threads in the offseason launching profanity laced tirades on anyone who dare question the continuous losing. He was rightfully called out for it, to which he copied a list of threads which provided evidentiary support the he was hiding (embarrassing for him). It should be a bannable offense to treat posters to the "fuck you" posts during the offseason when they accurately predict the decrypt state of the franchise and then not answer for that when the season starts, and, proceeds as predicted. Notice that he also quickly exited from this thread when his "act" was magnified by multiple posters.
Either way, its a win-win.
Actually Googs, I'm sitting back wondering how many people lost their shit over this initial post. The loss against Dallas seems like one of the least indicators of being a GM problem. It was a game we were in until the end, guys like Bradberry, Fackrell and Gano had great games and we lost at the end.
It wasn't meant to be some deep dive into the complete body of work, but that's what BBI has denigrated into.
That one sentence somehow turned into a complete defense of the GM, which is verboten these days. You can look into the mirror on why that is. That's not really a win-win. But a guy who trolled here, was banned and came back already knows that...
Saying it repeatedly doesn't make it true. Find an extended period where I've been absent from this board or on these threads.
And you are the one talking about posting integrity?? The irony there is fucking rich
Quote:
In comment 15007126 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15006282 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
He called me stupid.
He called me stupid first.
Rinse and repeat and it lasts a decade.
Let it go.
I wasn't going to post anything anymore regarding FmiC but your post deserves a reply. In addition it deserves a football question to you pertaining to this thread. If you are okay with FMiC then great. I derived pleasure in sticking it to him. I don't care that you don't want to hear it. But, not only personal because he also makes things personal but what you fail to understand is that you're the one taking it way too personal. There's more than attacking him for "warm" personality. Why do you care some are going at it with him? He can stick up for himself.
But what you're missing is his 1st post on this thread.
It's still incredibly ignorant. And if you can't see the comedy in his 1st comment add that up with him shortly after on the same thread started asking on the same thread when did he ever stick up for Gettleman - then maybe you're a Dead Head that partied during too many shows.
Let me ask you this a football question and pertaining to the thread subject-- if you are so above it all- tell what you think of his 1st post on this thread questioning why was this past game vs Dallas indicative of the GM? DO you think the game was or wasn't indicative of the GM and why?
I think DG has been bad. I expect at the end of the year to be with everyone with a pitchfork. I am waiting the whole year though. If the OL gels and DJ looks like he is improving I will look foolish if I act our now. This is an entire new staff and philosphy without any preseason games.
I think 3 years is a fair amount of time to judge a GM, not less. I will agree it looks awful right now and I think DG has likely done not one single good thing for the franchise. ALl of first round picks other than Lawrence could be busts. COULD BE, could is operative word.
I am not defending FMiC. I get tired when when people call him into a thread that has not yet devolved into people acting like they were in a dying marriage. Just to infect a new thread with animosity between people that has lasted for years. When he says something that pisses me off I tell him so and let it go. When he says something I agree with I tell him so and move on. I am embarrassed for the people waiting for something from him they are unlikely to ever receive.
But you said ...NEVER.
Right here this happened this one time, so you are fucking wrong...
It is old.
Giants suck
Giants have sucked for a long time.
We are all pissed off.
We are powerless to fix it.
So we fight.
I am suggesting we not do that.
"call him in"? He made the 4th post on this thread. Nobody called him in.
I agree with you that he will never change. He is who he is. However, it's a good thing that the community polices the board, and makes sure that it is known that his behavior is not acceptable, otherwise it becomes normalized, people think that is the way to behave on the board. Perhaps not you, but there are plenty of people who emulate that behavior with with anybody who disagrees with them. It makes the board unreadable and lose value. People stop debating subjects, and threads devolve into the exact behavior, "a dying marriage", to which you referred. So for the benefit of the board in general, it's a good thing that we call out behavior that we don't want becoming the new normal.
Again you are probably right, we will never see FMiC change. However, maybe we can realize a broader improvement. I.E. let him be, but, make sure people know not to join him in his antics. The are posters who it seems believe that he is the "cool kid" of BBI. Those folks need to know that he is not. Those people will only learn this if his type of behavior is periodically called out. It is up to us to police the board, it should not be Eric and the moderators, we should be able to do it ourselves.
I have seen numerous threads over time where people are mad after another pathetic loss and say things like, "Where is FMiC now? How come Britt isn't here when they lose?" Don't think I am defending them. I am not. That is trolling them IMHO though.
A lot of Strawman happens at BBI. From both sides of almost every debate and it is why FMiC can push people's buttons. People twist what he says enough to make it a Strawman argument and give him room to poke a hole in what they say because he can go back and show exactly what he said, and then he resorts to ad hominem attacks. People on the other side say stupid things when mad and give him even more ammo.
McL, You are one of the people I follow on BBI. I read everything you say. I am certain of your intelligence. Let me say this another way.
I see you post, look forward to reading it and then quickly realize it is an argument with FMiC. It is disappointing. I am not engaging him with this because it is pointless.
However, he does make some insightful posts, he is a smart guy too. When I have requested his opinion without insulting his point of view, he has responded to me with well reasoned and significant information.
Where I will defend FMiC and Britt a bit is that I believe if you were to give them a personality test they would come up as extremely loyal people. I find that a positive personality trait. At times, people on the other side of their arguments attack players they adore and they fight like you insulted their family.
FWIW even though I thought Eli was toast and argued that here, I changed my position because it became so nasty that people who were supposedly fans of the NYG were claiming the guy was never good and only lucky. It made me start to think about what I would do if I were an owner. I am a business owner, so it is easy for me to put myself there. I believe that I would have tried to give the guy I felt like a son about another shot, even if it set my franchise back. I stand by the people that go to war for me. Others might be more successful than I, but I can sleep well.
Getting off pulpit. Have at it. Thank you for all of your contributions here. I benefit from them.
This is what lots of people don't understand and never look at the personal side of it. I've always understood that Eli was going to be on this team until is contract ended. I'm not sure how anyone who knows this organization think otherwise.
The FMiC stuff, ehh, I'll just say this:
I joined this board in March 2005. I stopped posting in 2015 and started back about 2 months ago. I've had more interactions with him since i've been back in than the ten years I was active. And not saying it in a bad way, we just never directly posted to much at all.
For you guys to have so much angst, to have a thread of this many posts and in depth analysis of one poster kinds of tell me maybe it's not all the poster. I could be wrong, but I don't think I can expend so much energy on something like this.
But hell, who am I to judge..
This is what lots of people don't understand and never look at the personal side of it. I've always understood that Eli was going to be on this team until is contract ended. I'm not sure how anyone who knows this organization think otherwise.
The FMiC stuff, ehh, I'll just say this:
I joined this board in March 2005. I stopped posting in 2015 and started back about 2 months ago. I've had more interactions with him since i've been back in than the ten years I was active. And not saying it in a bad way, we just never directly posted to much at all.
For you guys to have so much angst, to have a thread of this many posts and in depth analysis of one poster kinds of tell me maybe it's not all the poster. I could be wrong, but I don't think I can expend so much energy on something like this.
But hell, who am I to judge..
Super post GMan
👍
Either way, its a win-win.
Spoke to soon I guess.
The site loses
Quote:
He also has this nasty pattern the past two years of not posting anything on Giants related threads when the losing starts during the season (i.e., hiding), only to reappear on similar threads in the offseason launching profanity laced tirades on anyone who dare question the continuous losing.
Saying it repeatedly doesn't make it true. Find an extended period where I've been absent from this board or on these threads.
And you are the one talking about posting integrity?? The irony there is fucking rich
I was going to let this rest and die, like other posters suggested, but I'll pull a you...where did I ever insinuate you ever disappeared from the board? I stated you disappeared from Giants related threads for multiple weeks, a statement later corroborated by other posters regularly perusing these threads. Thereafter, you posted a thread list that supported my assertion. I mean c'mon, the Yankees, Dwayne Haskins...yep that's being active on Giants threads.
The other thing, no one cares that you supported/support DG. That's great, you believe in him. That's admirable. What was terrible is the way you went about disagreeing with anyone who doubted the front office. What's more pathetic is you actually tried backtrack on your virulent support of DG. If you find your way back to this thread, please view the Tesla post where he predicted that you would abandon your support for DG and claim you never defended him. Posters can predict your exact actions because of your inane behavior. It's also predictable that once you run out of defenses for your posted actions, you take to profanity laced personal attacks.
What's most pathetic is there is now a second thread in three weeks exclusively devoted to discussing your quality, or lack thereof, as a poster on this site. There are many posters on this board that have loyal opinions and disagree with the naysayers - one that was mentioned is Britt. Have you seen any threads on this site devoted to discussing Britt's quality? No. You know why? Britt doesn't lash out at posters who disagree with him or do not support the current state of the organization.
I am going to take crick's suggestion and leave this thread alone, simply because it is pointless to further discuss anything with you. I joined this site (after years of reading) to discuss Giants football and civilly debate ideas for improvement with other posters, not argue with the likes of you. I, and several other posters, have said our piece. Do with it what you will, go on thinking everyone is wrong but you.
Corroborated by whom - the same posters trashing me?? Great group to look at. You do realize the "recent history" only goes back 3 days or the most recent 15 threads you've been on, right?
This is the recap now. It will change in the next few days too, Einstein
Matt Rhule - 11:35 am - 5:02 pm - 56 posts
Jets release Bell - 10/13/2020 8:56 pm - 4:50 pm - 80 posts
Andrew Thomas dead last in the NFL in pressures allowed ... - 10/13/2020 2:50 pm - 2:01 pm - 89 posts
Some Thoughts on the QB Plan for 2021 - 10/13/2020 12:29 am - 9:08 am - 189 posts
Marc Colombo discusses Andrew Thomas - 10/13/2020 6:37 pm - 9:05 am - 25 posts
What bothered me most was the Cowboys ability to run - 10/13/2020 8:24 am - 10/13/2020 12:39 pm - 41 posts
NFT: RIP Joe Morgan - 10/12/2020 10:20 am - 10/12/2020 11:53 pm - 33 posts
Daniel Jones is a sunk cost - 10/11/2020 7:49 pm - 10/12/2020 10:27 pm - 155 posts
NFT: Brian Cashmen - 10/10/2020 9:43 am - 10/12/2020 3:06 pm - 47 posts
Dak having surgery already - 10/11/2020 7:12 pm - 10/12/2020 11:42 am - 36 posts
The Number of Officiating Oddities Was of the Charts - 10/11/2020 8:48 pm - 10/12/2020 7:15 am - 48 posts
NFT: Rays announcer says he's hoping for Judge and Stanton leg in - 10/6/2020 12:32 pm - 10/12/2020 2:52 am - 45 posts
8 - 85 and two TDs - 10/11/2020 8:57 pm - 10/12/2020 12:08 am - 11 posts
Can someone explain why we cut Cory Coleman? - 10/11/2020 10:18 pm - 10/11/2020 11:19 pm - 10 posts
You made the assertion that I disappear from football threads during the season, yet even while a slew of chuckleheads are supposedly agreeing with you, what is the main takeaway? That I'm on every thread trashing their good opinions. You don't find that in conflict?
You made a ridiculous comment and when called on it - you stood by it and take the smug route that it has actually been proven correct!! Exactly what I'd expect from you. You can look in the archives. But you know I'm right.
As for your point on why there are two threads about me - look to the culprits on this thread. They comprise a bulk of the people I think have some of the shittiest takes on the board. Why they are calling out a guy who disappears from football talk during the season? I'll let your intellect chew on that for awhile.
The post above is the shittiest take on this board this week.
Fits the profile discussed.
Let it go as it’s more comical to hear the responses.
That's not to say that we need to make it a "safe" place, it's fine that it can be rough and tumble. But it can be rough and tumble without devolving into pointless bickering, name calling and profanitly laced tirades against posters.