2nd time in 3 weeks we saw a team with multipe all-pro players mssing and we lost.. How can the Cowboys have 8 OL that are better than our best OL? How come backup RBs look so good against us and at times better than our 2nd overall pick.. especially when we have invested so heavily in our DL..
Can someone please explain how are we any better than we were 3 years ago? He really needs to go.. Dallas probably has a better OL talent on their practice squad team than we have on starters.. after all these investments..
Solid point. The only counter I would say is that we are seeing players develop much faster today than in years past. As others have said, the college and NFL games are as close as they have ever been. It’s not to say he can’t be top 10, perhaps even next year, just to see that we are seeing elite players reach their peak play much faster than in years prior.
I like Lawrence as a player, he does his job well, but at this point he's a somewhat limited player and that's not really what you want in a first round pick.
Where would you rank Lawrence among his peers? Is he a top 10 DT? Nah. So where?
I hate what Gettleman's done as GM. He dismantled the 2016 defense and replaced it with a bunch of jelly beans.
But if they let him go then it's start all over again. Like DG replaced all the defensive players from 2016 with no better players to replace them.
Losing becomes a mentality like the Bills had (until this year finally). Keeping the team stable if even the drafting is poor might be better than starting over again. The new management will get rid of Gettleman's good players along with his bad. If Gettleman continues to draft poorly he'll learn to rely on scouts and assistants more.
I think that beyond a doubt Saquon Barkley was his worst pick. I would have told you that all good football minds know that adding an acrobatic and fragile skills player to a team before it's set at quarterback and blocking is just wasting his limited years at full strength.
And that adding a running back to a team lacking blocking will not help you win games. And that Saquon has shown an alarming difficulty at running between the tackles. Gallman and Freeman with the same blocking can bull five to seven yards up the middle.
But I would have been wrong about all the football minds being in agreement. Seems a lot of them liked the pick.
“I think he’s the best running back to come up through the draft since Adrian Peterson,” Brandt, a long-time NFL executive who is now an analyst for Sirius XM’s NFL Radio, said on a conference call on Wednesday. “I believe that Barkley has the speed and quickness and catching ability. I think he’s a special player . . . I think Barkley is going to be a future star in this league.”
Lawrence Taylor is a player who had an immediate impact and was named just not rookie defensive play of the year but overall defensive player of the year. He got the Giants to the playoffs
Well, he did call giantstock and I shit birds (what exactly that is, I am not sure), or something to that effect. Does that count? He also never said he defended DG or said he would be or is a good GM. In response to being called out for saying nary a word about the state of the franchise, it’s talent, or record over the past month - after an offseason of profanity laced tirades on similar threads against the naysayers- he posts a thread list where he discussed the Yankees, OBJ, and Dwayne Haskins 🥴. So yep, I’d say he’s been here 😬.
Barkley is one of 3 players in NFL history to have 2,000 all purpose yards as a rookie. He broke the rookie catches record for a running back. He looked really, like a phenomenal player. He started out great as well in 2019 and ended on a great note, obviously the injury in week 3 lingered. But he still had almost 1,500 yards with missing nearly 4 full games. He might have had more yards then he did as a rookie if not for the ankle injury. Then tore his knee this year. Sucks, it happened, not sure how you can get on a guy for tearing a knee on a freak play.
Barkley is an incredible talent. If our OL continues to build and *hopefully* improve, he will be great.
I think that beyond a doubt Saquon Barkley was his worst pick. I would have told you that all good football minds know that adding an acrobatic and fragile skills player to a team before it's set at quarterback and blocking is just wasting his limited years at full strength.
And that adding a running back to a team lacking blocking will not help you win games. And that Saquon has shown an alarming difficulty at running between the tackles. Gallman and Freeman with the same blocking can bull five to seven yards up the middle.
But I would have been wrong about all the football minds being in agreement. Seems a lot of them liked the pick.
“I think he’s the best running back to come up through the draft since Adrian Peterson,” Brandt, a long-time NFL executive who is now an analyst for Sirius XM’s NFL Radio, said on a conference call on Wednesday. “I believe that Barkley has the speed and quickness and catching ability. I think he’s a special player . . . I think Barkley is going to be a future star in this league.”
Lawrence Taylor is a player who had an immediate impact and was named just not rookie defensive play of the year but overall defensive player of the year. He got the Giants to the playoffs
But you wouldn't have been wrong regarding Barkley. There were also others that said it was a bad move.
Sure Brandt liked it. And Brandt also had Josh Rosen as his number 1 QB and ranked very high.
Andrew Thomas was a reach, see the composite mock draft where he is ranked 10 or the 3rd highest tackle. In draft capital the difference between 4 and 10 is an extra 2nd round pick. Relatively high too. That’s the problem with the Giants and what a lot of fans don’t get either. When you don’t get good value consistently these things add up. Andrew Thomas struggling for example would be a lot better if we had another 2nd round pick on the OL for a direct example.
Composite Mock Draft - ( New Window )
Tesla : 9/27/2020 8:37 pm : link
In comment 14987013 santacruzom said:
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In comment 14986757 Go Terps said:
FatMan hasn't posted yet.
It's no big deal that Fats has been 100% wrong in his defense of DG since the beginning. What is a big deal is how arrogant he is about it.....calling everyone critical of DG a fuckstain, idiot, moron, etc.
Fact is NOBODY has been more wrong about Giants management over the past few years than Fats. Nobody.
Of course we all know that he's gonna show up at some point denying that he ever actually supported DG......instead he was merely attacking idiots poster who didn't know what they were talking about.
Andrew Thomas was a reach, see the composite mock draft where he is ranked 10 or the 3rd highest tackle. In draft capital the difference between 4 and 10 is an extra 2nd round pick. Relatively high too. That’s the problem with the Giants and what a lot of fans don’t get either. When you don’t get good value consistently these things add up. Andrew Thomas struggling for example would be a lot better if we had another 2nd round pick on the OL for a direct example.
Composite Mock Draft - ( New Window )
Yet you still have posters defending the Barkley pcik- which is mind-boggling.
Usually though imo these are the same posters who defend him hard even today. They're dug in.
I'd change this from "no effect" to very little. But this plays as an overview snapshot.
He plays a position that has snap constraints, with a higher risk for injury, with a shorter prime + tricky 2nd contract, an exponentially higher relative rookie cap cost (rookie dollars are locked based on slot regardless of position, RBs are cheap) and a pretty flat replacement value (see Mike Davis). It's a bad pick despite his immense talent.
You need a sound approach, a transparent and inclusive decision making process as a start. The Giants had many signs for years they didn’t have this and they are bright and shining.
Charisma, leadership, things of that nature are great, I’d never devalue them. But you inspire and climb to the top with your strong roots bonded to your foundational approach.
When the Giants hired Gettleman they displayed that they understood none of this. Gettleman fancied himself having a positive influence on culture without remotely understanding what a good culture in the modern world is. He’s a dinosaur, he outed himself the way he spoke. Some of us saw it and others acted like we were crazy because we didn’t have every single fossil in the skeleton proving our theories.
These losses are digging up the last of the bones, we’ve got a whole bunch of dinosaurs at met life stadium or wherever they do business now
We're in the dark right now. The way back into the light is this:
1. Fire Gettleman immediately.
2. Ask Judge who he wants to work with in a sink/swim partnership at GM.
3. Turn the keys off the football side of things to Judge/new GM.
When the Giants hired Gettleman they displayed that they understood none of this. Gettleman fancied himself having a positive influence on culture without remotely understanding what a good culture in the modern world is. He’s a dinosaur, he outed himself the way he spoke. Some of us saw it and others acted like we were crazy because we didn’t have every single fossil in the skeleton proving our theories.
These losses are digging up the last of the bones, we’ve got a whole bunch of dinosaurs at met life stadium or wherever they do business now
Great post.
We're in the dark right now. The way back into the light is this:
1. Fire Gettleman immediately.
2. Ask Judge who he wants to work with in a sink/swim partnership at GM.
3. Turn the keys off the football side of things to Judge/new GM.
I like Judge too. I think Chris Moore said it best a week or so ago-- he appears to be "a leader of men."
The GMEN have had 3 winnable games.
I was busy today and only now got a chance to catch up here. I am sorry I missed this action.
bw - I agree, I had to read what FMiC said 20 times as well. It was the biggest WTF moment of 2020. And considering what kind of year it has been. Well, I don't need to say anything more.
FMiC: I think the wormed has turned on you. Pretty much everybody knows who and what you are, and people aren't buying it anymore.
I certainly noticed your crappy posts haven't been on the threads I read (I don't read Yankee threads, and I don't care about Haskins, or any of those other thread you were on.) There was another thread after the 49ers game where you were a topic of discussion (and not in a good way). I was curious if you had seen it. I checked your handle. You had in fact been online, the last activity showed it updated times for days, but you hadn't posted, so I know you saw it. And it would be several more days before you dared post anything at all on even non-Giant Threads. So yeah, you hid for a while. and you've been laying low until today. Coming out of hiding... Big mistake chief.
Still can't believe you said that you haven't defended DG.
And to be clear, the words there are "DEFENDED DG". Nobody said you claimed he was a good GM. We all know you would never go out on a limb like that and actually clearly state an opinion. You play word salad in such a way as to make sure you can't be held accountable for anything. But as I said, the whole board is onto you now. You have ZERO credibility. I have to agree with whomever it was that questioned your mental health. That has been on my mind as well, and why I have in general stopped engaging with you.
Still can't believe you said you never defended DG...
Mind blowing.
That is all. Buh bye.
You can think Gettleman got a raw deal in Carolina because he cut some
well liked vets. You can also think Gettleman’s tenure as Giants GM hasn’t been good. Both statements can be true.
That’s the problem with this board today. There’s no sense of the nuances in football. You’re either team this or team that. You’re either negative about everything or you’re a cheerleader. It is quite possible that Daniel Jones will not be a good NFL quarterback but it is also possible that he is severely hampered by the cast of characters around him.
You can think Gettleman got a raw deal in Carolina because he cut some
well liked vets. You can also think Gettleman’s tenure as Giants GM hasn’t been good. Both statements can be true.
That’s the problem with this board today. There’s no sense of the nuances in football. You’re either team this or team that. You’re either negative about everything or you’re a cheerleader. It is quite possible that Daniel Jones will not be a good NFL quarterback but it is also possible that he is severely hampered by the cast of characters around him.
Even with a healthy Barkley and Shepard, an optimist probably would have been pleased with 8 wins. With them both out, what can we expect?
You can think Gettleman got a raw deal in Carolina because he cut some
well liked vets. You can also think Gettleman’s tenure as Giants GM hasn’t been good. Both statements can be true.
That’s the problem with this board today. There’s no sense of the nuances in football. You’re either team this or team that. You’re either negative about everything or you’re a cheerleader. It is quite possible that Daniel Jones will not be a good NFL quarterback but it is also possible that he is severely hampered by the cast of characters around him.
Pete,
It isn't what he thought of Gettleman per se. It is how he has approached it. He attacks posters who post perfectly reasonable opinions. Those opinions don't conflict with your statement about raw deal in Carolina, and not good here. But FMiC twists everything with profanity laced responses. He avoids stating an opinion just so that he can never be pinned down. He forces good football discussions off the tracks, while adding nothing of substance. I find it hard to believe that anybody could find him a "good read" since he never posts anything of value. All his posts are attacking other posters. If that is what you enjoy, well then you can have him. Give him your email and have him dump his crap on you directly.
FMiC has antagonized and pissed off most of the board at some point, if not directly, then just by his obnoxious presence on threads. Maybe not you, but it appears that the majority the people that come here have simply had enough of him.
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His winning percentage with the Giants is worse than Matt Millen. Let that sink in
Yo...Les in TO. How goes it?
Ask Pete if I've attacked him. Ask montana. Ask ryankeane. There are hundreds of posters here that I've never attacked.
But you went to the tried and true "nothing of substance" comment. What is the substance you're looking for? When I provide Gettleman's track record at Carolina and posted the specifics behind his time in Carolina - that's not adding substance? When I provide information from the Combine, that isn't substance??
It isn't that you want substance, you want agreement. You want acceptance that your opinion holds weight. You want to post something about positional value and you don't want to be challenged on it.
And apparently, you want civility. However, whether or not a post has profanity in it doesn't make it civil or not. You've flat out accused me of being a paid shill for the team. Civil?? You take unprovoked potshots at me across a number of threads and say it's OK because it is warranted. Civil?
You don't like that you've been challenged so you say there's nothing being posted "of value". The bottom line is that you've been attacked. Not everyone on the board. You. And thus the exaggeration that the majority of the board is attacked. Hell, lax counsel says I haven't even been on the board for the last 4 weeks, so perception of my posting is pretty damned warped.
Yes, it is. Give it some more thought.
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In comment 15005146 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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so losing today is indicative of the GM??
Wow, just wow. No you’re right, it’s a talented. Go back into hiding.
I've been hiding?? WTF?
Yes, I think you said you needed a break. Maybe it was just from GM-related threads.
Based on these posts, you do need a break.
Post of the year indeed.
You need a break.
This is correct.
I rather have the less talented Derek Henry
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Fun to watch at times but had no effect on turning losses into wins.
This is correct.
I rather have the less talented Derek Henry
Only if his OL comes over with him.
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In comment 15005715 Go Terps said:
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Fun to watch at times but had no effect on turning losses into wins.
This is correct.
I rather have the less talented Derek Henry
Only if his OL comes over with him.
Nope, even behind our online
A lot less negative plays and when he does get some space he finished runs hard. Much rather have our RB trucking guys to end runs like Zeke did yesterday than trying to hurdle them
Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton, who is at the very least a solid role player on a good team, and at beast, has shown the ceiling of a borderline #1/#2 on a functional offense. I think a realistic place he ends up is a solid #2 if this team can turn around.
2) Drafting Lawrence, who is already a good player but has the potential to continue to ascend, although this is partially tainted because he was part of the OBJ trade, which is a mixed
Unless there was a guest GM that built yesterday's roster, then yes, every loss is indicative of the GM on some level.
Or is this another one of those times that you pretend that your undying love for DG is actually just an objective POV?
The Cowboys line yesterday was an utter disaster, and Elliot ran hard and was productive. Look at Freeman behind this line, then imagine one of the best in the business hitting the hole hard.
At some point it can’t be summarily dismissed that Barkley has gained 37% of his career yards on fewer than 25 plays and something like half his carries have gone for 1 yard or less. He’s got a hole in his game.
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2020 8:54 pm : link : reply
so losing today is indicative of the GM??
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Only if his OL comes over with him.
The Cowboys line yesterday was an utter disaster, and Elliot ran hard and was productive. Look at Freeman behind this line, then imagine one of the best in the business hitting the hole hard.
At some point it can’t be summarily dismissed that Barkley has gained 37% of his career yards on fewer than 25 plays and something like half his carries have gone for 1 yard or less. He’s got a hole in his game.
That doesn't even include the hummer size hole which is his pass protection.. a 3 down RB needs to be able to pass protect as much as he needs to be able to take a run 80 yards..
I know you think this is some sort of slam dunk point for you because you repeat it ad nauseam, but just so we can apply a little bit of logic, this line of thinking is like suggesting that Michael Vick was an animal lover just because he owned so many dogs.
Starting an analytics department does not confirm any sort of commitment to analytics in general, especially when anyone with a brain and a computer can see how frequently DG's actions run opposed to what the data would suggest or the regressions would predict. Thinking you can outsmart the data or acting as though outliers are directional is not a commitment to analytics.
At some point it can’t be summarily dismissed that Barkley has gained 37% of his career yards on fewer than 25 plays and something like half his carries have gone for 1 yard or less. He’s got a hole in his game.
This is almost unbelievable. Did you calc that yourself or found it elsewhere?
I guess that's what happens when you put a generational running back behind a degenerating offensive line.
It might be easy for you to say. But how often have you gone back-and-forth with him while he swears at you calling you names all-the-while changing the meaning of your posts.
Don't you find it comical that he asked when did he defend DG then while on the very thread he asked juts a some posts prior he did exactly that? Yet he is "fighting it" and swearing at posters.
Then after he asked when did he ever defend DG he goes on to give examples when he did defend him.
ANd he is still fighting. It's comical is all.
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At some point it can’t be summarily dismissed that Barkley has gained 37% of his career yards on fewer than 25 plays and something like half his carries have gone for 1 yard or less. He’s got a hole in his game.
This is almost unbelievable. Did you calc that yourself or found it elsewhere?
I guess that's what happens when you put a generational running back behind a degenerating offensive line.
I added it up myself from PFR stats. If I have time later I can pull up the numbers. I started a thread on it earlier in the year, after the first game when Barkley had like 7 negative runs.
And I agree, it’s not all Barkley, but some of it is. He really needs to rely less on his jump cut and attack the hole straight away. I think to some extent teams figured him out a little.
We do need to focus on how we ended up with DG and Reese. I mentioned this in another post yesterday.
The issue to me is John Mara. He hired both Reese and DG and not only that, he let Acorsi make the selections for him. OR.. he was using Acorsi to provide some credibility to HIS selection making it seem to the fans that a football guy is endorsing the pick.
I believe John Mara is extremely conservative when it comes to selecting the individuals who will be the GM and the coach of this team. Image is a big thing for him apparently.
I used to laugh at Reese in his post draft press conferences when he would often refer to players as "clean". It was as if not having any baggage was a huge deal and at times more important than the on-field upside the player may offer. Now, I feel like that directive came from John Mara.
So, if John continues to push some of these buttons, then we will always have a GM who has some ties to the organization.
Now, all of that said... we never did have another guy who we thought was a slam dunk selection for our GM. For those who want to fire DG now I get it but we must decide WHO is a viable replacement. It has to be a realistic selection and someone who is not currently a GM for another team. Not so easy...
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And unrelated to the discussion about FMiC's posts - who cares who defends DG and who doesn't (on both sides)? There's no reason to fight with each other about this. On one hand, people are allowed to have opinions even if you disagree with them, but on the other, claiming that people are grabbing for pitchforks when the team has shown 0 improvement during his tenure also doesn't make much sense...
It might be easy for you to say. But how often have you gone back-and-forth with him while he swears at you calling you names all-the-while changing the meaning of your posts.
Fmic swearing/calling you names typically means he is pissed that you have better argument than him. It also signals that he is about to pivot to try and bail himself out.
He is nothing if not predictable.
Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton, who is at the very least a solid role player on a good team, and at beast, has shown the ceiling of a borderline #1/#2 on a functional offense. I think a realistic place he ends up is a solid #2 if this team can turn around.
2) Drafting Lawrence, who is already a good player but has the potential to continue to ascend, although this is partially tainted because he was part of the OBJ trade, which is a mixed bag.
3) Finding Ryan Connelly, which is moot since he's gone.
The thing that's maddening to me about DG is that when he trades away talent, he doesn't seem to have a solid plan in place to replace it. The team he inherited had JPP, OBJ, Vernon, and Snacks. Of those, he oddly only seemed to have a plan to replace the whole created by Snacks.
Many have talked about the failure to remotely fix the OL and the awful plan for the OL this season, which is true, but the lack of investment in pass rushers is even glaringly more obvious to me.
Many applauded the JPP trade at the time but I really don't get what the rationale was there. He wasn't massively overpaid and has produced in Tampa Bay. Again, that production hasn't been replaced. The prevailing thought was that JPP could not play in a 3-4, which I do not think is accurate.
The Vernon for Zeitler trade was at least a decent move that paid off some dividends before Zeitler began to break down, but once again, no plan to replace what Vernon gave us when he was on the field.
As for Flowers, I, like many, was happy when he was cut; having said that, nobody thought to at least try him out at Guard before cutting him? In fairness though, he likely needed a change of scenery to get to where he is today.
I can't speak too much regarding his tenure w the Panthers, and granted they did go 15-1 and reach the Superbowl, but I do recall him trading away talent there - Josh Norman, Steve Smith - but it seems he was able to at least address those roster spots with some reinforcements.
On a second overarching note, taking a shot with Eli was a really stupid decision. McAdoo was right to bench him when he did - the problem was that he played Geno, not Lauletta, which was just as pointless. However, DG was probably hired by the Maras because he was willing to take a shot with Eli. This is where my problem with NYG's ownership is really underscored. This "keep it in the family" approach is asinine and needs to end. The next GM cannot be Abrams. Chris Mara needs to back the fuck off football operations. And they need to STOP. CONSULTING. ACCORSCI. Who gives a fuck what Ernie Accorsci thinks at this time? I can't help but think the Giants limited their GM search because they had a mandate that the new GM had to take a shot with Eli.
As for his drafting, I do not think it's crazy to say they have objectively been terrible.
1) Barkley - this has been discussed ad nauseum, but is a little more nuanced than people who right it off as a terrible decision now. If I'm being perfectly honest here, I absolutely hated the Barkley pick at the time due to not only the fact he was an RB, but the type of RB he was. I watched Penn State a lot and Barkley in particular with jealousy (as I'm a Rutgers fan who was so bummed he decommitted), but Barkley's propensity to dance around the line, get minimal gains on a bunch of plays, then break a big one, was evident in college. That is not the type of RB you take at #2 unless you have a great line.
Having said that, the vast majority of this board wanted Barkley or Darnold. The portion that wanted the two players who would look like the "correct" pick in hindsight (Josh Allen or Nelson) was miniscule. Nelson was a Guard and right or wrong, they don't go at the #2 overall spot, especially when you have the option of the QBs or Barkley. Allen would have been a ballsy, correct call, and kudos to the BBIers who said he'd turn out to be the best of the 4 being considered at #2 that year. I was not one of them and was totally wrong on that.
So that's a long way of saying Barkley was not the right guy to pick, but I still think the alternative would have ended up being Darnold.
2) Jones - Jones is better than he looks this season, but his ceiling is not what the #6 overall pick's ceiling should be, and is actively being lowered by being on this shitty team. If Jones went to a team with a competent O-line and some semblance of NFL caliber skill players, he'd clearly be a solid to good QB. I don't think he has the pocket presence to be a great QB, not to mention he locks onto his WRs too much and obviously turns the ball over at an insane rate. The fumbles are something that IIRC were on his scouting report from Duke, and have not improved at all.
The question is whether some of this issues have been exacerbated and whether Jones change to improve in this areas has been shot (or is actively disintegrating) due to the terrible team around him. The end result is the same though; he has not shown remotely enough to forgo a top QB if the Giants have a shot at one. He also has been bad enough (so far) that replacing him needs to be the #1 priority.
The Giants appear to be headed for a top 3 pick again. If the pick is #1, DG will likely be fired and his replacement is not going to pass up on Lawrence, period. It's not even worth arguing, it's not going to happen.
If it's #2, DG is probably fired, but I wouldn't reach to replace Jones automatically. I think the pick should be S'ua, even if it means keeping Thomas at RT. Thomas hasn't grown into being an LT yet, but again, instead of hinging your hopes that he grows into one on where the (likely fired) DG took Thomas, you need to look at it as a sunk cost, slide Thomas to RT, hope he becomes a lynchpin there, then take S'ua and hope you're solidifed bookends for a long time. Grab a center, maybe bring in some competition for Hernandez, and hope that between another guard, an aging Zeitler, Hernandez, Lemiux, and Gates, you can find 3 competent inside players.
But if the pick is #3 and Fields has another great season, I think the new GM (or DG if god forbid he is still here).
Lawrence is a good player worth of where was picked, but the roster already had Tomlinson and had more pressing needs than DT.
Regardless of what people thought of Baker at the time, he was a bad pick. It's easy for people to say "how could you know he'd be arrested for armed robbery?", but that isn't even the reason I think he was unequivocally a bad pick. He was a bad pick because not only is he off the team (regardless of the reason), he also wasn't very good when he was on the field. Yes, the light bulb may have gone on, but when you couple his on field play with the fact the character concerns fleshed themselves out and he got released, it was a bad pick.
The Wiliams and OBJ trades were not good trades. Some may agree with the timing of getting rid of OBJ, which I can get behind, because big game against Dallas notwithstanding, I do not think he looks like he is physically the same player as he was in his NYG prime. But he'd still be by far the best skill player on this offense and is still a #1 WR in the NFL. He has no chemistry with Mayfield, and keeping him around would have been extremely helpful for Jones development. The return for OBJ was not great. The picks were not used wisely as some were traded for Baker, and Peppers is not a good football player (and was not good in Cleveland). If you wanted to get two firsts for him, they should have gotten a second 1st round pick from someone, not Peppers. Eric has said that there's a chance Lawrence ends up being the best player in that trade, but unless that happens, I think we can chalk that up as a bad move.
The Williams trade is still perplexing to this day. I do not get the rationale behind it.
This turned into a huge rambling post, but I don't get what people are expecting from DG when they say to give him time and believe he can turn it around. He has shown nothing to this point to inspire confidence, and there's this cloud of pseudo-organizational-nepotism around his hire in the first place.
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He forces good football discussions off the tracks, while adding nothing of substance. I find it hard to believe that anybody could find him a "good read" since he never posts anything of value. All his posts are attacking other posters. If that is what you enjoy, well then you can have him.
Ask Pete if I've attacked him. Ask montana. Ask ryankeane. There are hundreds of posters here that I've never attacked.
But you went to the tried and true "nothing of substance" comment. What is the substance you're looking for? When I provide Gettleman's track record at Carolina and posted the specifics behind his time in Carolina - that's not adding substance? When I provide information from the Combine, that isn't substance??
It isn't that you want substance, you want agreement. You want acceptance that your opinion holds weight. You want to post something about positional value and you don't want to be challenged on it.
And apparently, you want civility. However, whether or not a post has profanity in it doesn't make it civil or not. You've flat out accused me of being a paid shill for the team. Civil?? You take unprovoked potshots at me across a number of threads and say it's OK because it is warranted. Civil?
You don't like that you've been challenged so you say there's nothing being posted "of value". The bottom line is that you've been attacked. Not everyone on the board. You. And thus the exaggeration that the majority of the board is attacked. Hell, lax counsel says I haven't even been on the board for the last 4 weeks, so perception of my posting is pretty damned warped.
So we should ask Pete and then follow that up with two of the biggest DG apologists on the board? That's your defense when called out for attacking those who criticize DG? ryan and mg don't ever criticize DG - EVER. Why would they feel attacked by you?
For someone who supposedly doesn't actively and constantly defend DG, you certainly don't aggressively engage with DG's apologists in the same tone and manner than you engage with his critics. And it's not because they have a stronger argument: the team is 9-28 under DG. In Reese's final 37 games (including all of 2017), they were 15-22. Even if you drop each GM's best season (so we can avoid getting into the side debate about Reese's spending spree in 2016), they have identical 4-17 records.
Think about that - even if you ignore the 11-win season that Reese's Giants compiled in 2016, Gettleman has only even matched the record of a GM who was unceremoniously fired. And Gettleman has had three top-6 picks in that span; Reese never picked that high in his entire tenure here.
And as an aside, unless you're trying to gaslight the board, I don't think you realize how conspicuous your absence was following the 49ers game.
Anyway, when looking over DG's tenure, the bright spots are pretty few and far between. I think we can all agree they consist mostly of:
1) Finding Slayton, who is at the very least a solid role player on a good team, and at beast, has shown the ceiling of a borderline #1/#2 on a functional offense. I think a realistic place he ends up is a solid #2 if this team can turn around.
2) Drafting Lawrence, who is already a good player but has the potential to continue to ascend, although this is partially tainted because he was part of the OBJ trade, which is a mixed
you can add a few more... Bradberry and Martinez for example. Our new kicker is working out well.. lol