Good franchises have an identity and stick to it. Steelers, Ravens.
Picking Barkley was decorating the cake while it was still in the oven. Any talking head on tv could and would have drafted Barkley. That isn't what Gettleman is paid six figures for. To do what Sportscenter anchors would have done.
Being a failed pick. I understand people not agreeing with the way a resource (2nd pick) was used, but even if it were a rule that you don't pick a running back 2nd, every rule has exceptions. Barkley requires the opposing defense to use a lot of resources to contain him, now unfortunately, with a roster with no other real threats that job isn't as difficult.
But if you have a roster with no other real threats and a porous OL which makes the job of shutting down Barkley not difficult, then to me he the "easy" wrong pick at the time.
Good news is we still have him, and if healthy maybe we can deal him to a team that could use his talents moreso while the Giants rebuild properly.
I would say you look at him as an important piece of the puzzle.
Good franchises have an identity and stick to it. Steelers, Ravens.
Picking Barkley was decorating the cake while it was still in the oven. Any talking head on tv could and would have drafted Barkley. That isn't what Gettleman is paid six figures for. To do what Sportscenter anchors would have done.
Actually, I believe he said he got it from his Mom.
Being a failed pick. I understand people not agreeing with the way a resource (2nd pick) was used, but even if it were a rule that you don't pick a running back 2nd, every rule has exceptions. Barkley requires the opposing defense to use a lot of resources to contain him, now unfortunately, with a roster with no other real threats that job isn't as difficult.
But if you have a roster with no other real threats and a porous OL which makes the job of shutting down Barkley not difficult, then to me he the "easy" wrong pick at the time.
Good news is we still have him, and if healthy maybe we can deal him to a team that could use his talents moreso while the Giants rebuild properly.
I would say you look at him as an important piece of the puzzle.
Maybe. I am just trying to think of the fastest way to get more good players in the door here without just going thru the annual motions of free agency & draft. And one is to barter what may be the best value we have now and build a quicker, brighter future.
Being a failed pick. I understand people not agreeing with the way a resource (2nd pick) was used, but even if it were a rule that you don't pick a running back 2nd, every rule has exceptions. Barkley requires the opposing defense to use a lot of resources to contain him, now unfortunately, with a roster with no other real threats that job isn't as difficult.
But if you have a roster with no other real threats and a porous OL which makes the job of shutting down Barkley not difficult, then to me he the "easy" wrong pick at the time.
Good news is we still have him, and if healthy maybe we can deal him to a team that could use his talents moreso while the Giants rebuild properly.
I would say you look at him as an important piece of the puzzle.
Maybe. I am just trying to think of the fastest way to get more good players in the door here without just going thru the annual motions of free agency & draft. And one is to barter what may be the best value we have now and build a quicker, brighter future.
There are certainly multiple ways to go about it. Simply put, I wasn't and currently am not upset about the Barkley pick.
I am frustrated about the coaching decisions made over the past three years that have done their share of damage that have set this team back. I am also very disappointed that a first round pick at cornerback (Baker] won't net anything other than cap space. And those are only a couple of issues out of several other the past 11 years or so.
If you think of team building like a fantasy draft, then sure, always draft the most physically talented player.
Except when you don't have the thing that RBs need to do their job.
The argument always seems to go back to "he was the most talented player". Thats not always how teams draft.
Giants fans have intentionally forgotten recent team history just to find a way to justify spending that pick on a RB while the OL and pass rush has been a flaming dumpster fire since 2013.
We all saw the Giants rise with Eli Manning from 05 to 2008 and win with pass rush,, brilliant OL and solid RBs. We chose to forget all of that because...why?
Spot on post. Because John Mara didn't like Gilbride's offense and was convinced we needed a Packers-type WC offense to succeed.
But in order for that interpretation of how to play with Barkley to work, the team around him has to be set up for success. Yes, the threat of barkley forces teams to stack up 7, 8, 9 man fronts.
If you can't execute your offense because either the OL stinks or the WRs can't shake coverage, you have still not done your job correctly.
I think a really close comparison for Barkley is Alvin Kamara based on skillset. He is perfect where he plays because the Saints have great things around him. They're prepared to play winning football. If you put Kamara on this team he would probably suck too.
So if the player you drafted is dependent on having a functioning OL and some modicum of offensive talent around him, and you don't have that, you're putting the cherry on the cake before it's baked.
Kamara was a 3rd round pick. Saints got serious value, and as usual, DG didn't.
I still believe we got the best player in the draft. I think Nelson is a non-factor in the conversation because all evidence points to the Giants never even considering him. If the choice was Barkley or Darnold, I take Barkley 10 times out of 10.
Now, if you told me we would trade down and/or take Nelson, I would have been on board with either or both. But, Barkley vs. Darnold was a no-brainer to me.
Personally, about 2 weeks before the draft I started reading a ton about Jackson and at the time said I wouldn't mind trading down for him. That said, it's hard to imagine what he would look like on this team with a putrid OL and few weapons. He landed on an already good Ravens team. But, what would they have done differently in last year's draft?
The real key to Barkley, for me, moving forward will be Jones. They forewent QB, which I agree with in terms of the 4 top rateds (my opinion on Jackson as stated above is different). That deferment means they put a lot of their future success on Jones. If he's not the right pick, it further sets back the franchise. If they end up feeling compelled to take Lawrence this year, it is a top pick wasted. Even if Lawrence is great, it is still a pick that could be spent elsewhere. If they don't take Lawrence or he is gone when they pick, we have an awful lot riding on Jones.
Means that most teams picking that high are afraid to risk doing something boring with their pick and/or there's an impactful alternative available. Also remember these teams are probably bad at team building or they wouldn't be picking that high.
Our draft was unique: the top QBs were not that impressive and the top offensive skill guy was a runningback. If there was a year to take a guard top 5, that could have been it. I think a lot more guards would go top 5 if you did hindsight redrafts for the last 30 years.
I wanted Chubb or Nelson. I don't think Chubb's injury throws him out the window anymore than Barkley's injury does. Whose to say they get hurt at all if circumstances were different? Unless you believe athletes are born with ticking time bomb ACLs.
The real question is, with hindsight, would the Giants have taken Nelson AND why didn't the Giants front office see this type of potential with Nelson?
In hindsight. If you want to go back and revisit the decision and all options are on the table the trade down has to be the best option. I do not take DGs word that all that was offered were donuts. Had he shopped the pick in good faith there would have been offers. He drafted the player most likely to give Eli some life. If Solder had panned out and he had fixed the OL SB might have done something for Eli. Eli was great when he had effective play action to use. We needed more picks, not a franchise running back, if you look at our talent right now. I don't even think I am willing to have a discussion about it because our record over that time proves it be any shadow of doubt.
He was drafting Barkley to try and make another run with Eli post the 17 debacle do we not understand... and this mentality has set the franchise back for years.
and getting he right pick is 2 different things. Drafting Barkley and keeping Beckham was the smart move. Drafting Barkley and trading Beckham made the selection a pad pick.
Not surprising Barkley best year was with OBJ. So was Egnram's and Shepard's. Hmm..
Barkley was NOT a guy who was guaranteed 4-5 yards each time he carried at PSU. I watched him in several games.
He would get stuffed multiple times and then rip off an 80 yard TD. He always threatened that every time he touched the ball.
That's what the Giants drafted. I love the player, but if fans think he was drafted to be a guy to consistently get your 4-5 yards, they are wrong. That does not mean he can't be that guy, but that's not why he was drafted that high!!
I just hope he comes back from the injury and can be effective. I think his time of injury hurts the big play potential, and that's his game.
And that's the problem with Barkley, actually. That kind of RB does not win you games in the NFL if you use him as anything more than a gadget player. That's why Barry Sanders never won anything.
You're calling Barry Sanders a gadget player? Wow.
Barkley himself has been, to this point, ineffectual. Even his excellent personal statistics in 2018 (which will probably end up being the best year of his career) didn't help the Giants be better than 5-11 and 16th in the NFL in scoring.
But the bigger problem had less to do with Barkley and more to do with the front office's complete misjudgment of the roster. That was the time to blow everything up, including getting rid of Eli. Drafting Barkley was a sign that they were making another run at lightning in a bottle.
And so here we are going on 3 seasons later. Completely lost.
They should’ve used Eli or a journeyman as a placeholder until the foundation wa rebuilt. In 18 they could’ve fixed the OL or close to it. In 19 they could’ve solved the pass rusher problem with Allen and Sweat with their first two picks. This year they could’ve taken Tua or Herbert.
The real question is, with hindsight, would the Giants have taken Nelson AND why didn't the Giants front office see this type of potential with Nelson?
Well, for one thing, they're clearly terrible at scouting offensive linemen.
Barkley himself has been, to this point, ineffectual. Even his excellent personal statistics in 2018 (which will probably end up being the best year of his career) didn't help the Giants be better than 5-11 and 16th in the NFL in scoring.
But the bigger problem had less to do with Barkley and more to do with the front office's complete misjudgment of the roster. That was the time to blow everything up, including getting rid of Eli. Drafting Barkley was a sign that they were making another run at lightning in a bottle.
And so here we are going on 3 seasons later. Completely lost.
They should’ve used Eli or a journeyman as a placeholder until the foundation wa rebuilt. In 18 they could’ve fixed the OL or close to it. In 19 they could’ve solved the pass rusher problem with Allen and Sweat with their first two picks. This year they could’ve taken Tua or Herbert.
Ding Ding. The offensive skills players were already in place. Tweak it, not de-fang it
The real question is, with hindsight, would the Giants have taken Nelson AND why didn't the Giants front office see this type of potential with Nelson?
Well, for one thing, they're clearly terrible at scouting offensive linemen.
It's honestly so bad that it's awe inspiring. They don't hit on any player at OL.
was fine taking Barkley or Donald. I typically don't want to take a RB with a top five pick for all of the usual reasons, but saw Barkely as a generational and transformational player. I also would have been happy trading down. Cleveland apparently offered #4 and both of their second round picks to move up to #2, and someone else said that Denver was prepared to offer a "king's ransom" for the pick.
If that Cleveland offer is true, that is a pretty big mistake. That would have given them 4th overall, 33rd and 35th to move back 2 spots.
DG has never admitted to any details of what offers he had, but when a reporter (I think it was Garafolo) challenged his hot dogs and doughnuts with evidence hed had about the Cleveland offer and a potential Denver offer, DG finally admitted that he received at least 1 credible offer.
So yes, the offers were there, DG did nothing to work them, and yes it was an incredible mistake. One for which we are still paying.
I didn't really mind the DG hire at first, but once this sequence of events occurred I quickly soured on him.
The pick would’ve returned a player plus extra 2nd round picks.
Think about what the OL was heading into that draft — Solder, Omameh, and Flowers. That’s it.
It’s not even about making the mistake of one more run with Eli. The OL had to be fixed either way. DG has touted “hog mollies” since day 1 and done an absolute shit job acquiring them.
That was also the deepest draft for OL in over a decade.
The Giants would take Barkley, I have to admit. It was partly because he was so exciting. But also, I made the same mistaken assumption Gettleman made: I thought Gettleman would be good enough to build a complete roster.
DG has never admitted to any details of what offers he had, but when a reporter (I think it was Garafolo) challenged his hot dogs and doughnuts with evidence hed had about the Cleveland offer and a potential Denver offer, DG finally admitted that he received at least 1 credible offer.
So yes, the offers were there, DG did nothing to work them, and yes it was an incredible mistake. One for which we are still paying.
I didn't really mind the DG hire at first, but once this sequence of events occurred I quickly soured on him.
We should have traded down with the Bills. They called Gettleman prior to the draft as they were looking to leapfrog the Jets to get a QB. They had 2 first round picks and 2 second round picks in that draft.
Barkley himself has been, to this point, ineffectual. Even his excellent personal statistics in 2018 (which will probably end up being the best year of his career) didn't help the Giants be better than 5-11 and 16th in the NFL in scoring.
But the bigger problem had less to do with Barkley and more to do with the front office's complete misjudgment of the roster. That was the time to blow everything up, including getting rid of Eli. Drafting Barkley was a sign that they were making another run at lightning in a bottle.
And so here we are going on 3 seasons later. Completely lost.
They should’ve used Eli or a journeyman as a placeholder until the foundation wa rebuilt. In 18 they could’ve fixed the OL or close to it. In 19 they could’ve solved the pass rusher problem with Allen and Sweat with their first two picks. This year they could’ve taken Tua or Herbert.
I thought that was the plan with Eli when Gettleman came in. But he never fixed the OL, making it impossible to continue with Eli.
The real question is, with hindsight, would the Giants have taken Nelson AND why didn't the Giants front office see this type of potential with Nelson?
Well, for one thing, they're clearly terrible at scouting offensive linemen.
What potential? You are asking as if Nelson was a diamond in the rough find. He was projected in the top 5 all along. He was not a surprise aas a prospect.
It's more Nelson/Chubb vs Barkley/Hernandez. Considering how bad the OL was at other positions, Nelson/Chubb is obvious in hindsight.
Having said that, as the article outlines, as I've said multiple times on this boars (not that anyone really should listen to me lol, I'm just another guy) -- Nelson was NEVER the alternative. He wasn't gonna go #2. It was a Barkley vs Darnold (maybe Allen/Rosen) pick. Has there even been any indication that Nelson was going to go #2 and was on the Giants radar?
It wasn't going to happen, so its barely worth discussing. The bigger issue is that I'd rather have Chubb than Barkley for the type of team this is. the Giants aren't at the level that a home run hitter does them any good - it doesn't help win games to the degree that someone who can:
1) get 3-4 yards,
2)move the chains along, and
3) help the O stay out of 3rd and long
would do.
Barkley was a luxury pick that I hated at the time; but Nelson was never going to be the pick, and the alternative was one of the QBs. Truth be told, I'm not sold that Darnold would be worse than Jones on this team. Darnold sucks but the Jets somehow are even more atrocious than the Giants.
I'd rather have Darnold/Josh Allen (DE) than Saquon/Jones. I'm going to per-emptively ask that you don't attack me for my opinion, I just think the team would be better with those two players. It's just my fucking opinion lol, not casting judgement per se.
The dearth of talent in regards to rushing the passer is far bigger than the delta between Barkley and another RB -- particularly considering Barkleys "lose a yard, gain a yard, lose 2 yards, 3 yard gain, 50 yard TD run" style. That's the flashy shit you put on good teams, not the type of RB you want on a dogshit team with an awful OL and a rookie QB (after trading your best WR).
Never thought I'd say this, but give me three yards and a cloud of dust for this fucking team. At least it might keep us in games and keep us in 3rd and 4, not 3rd and 9. Might even make Jones better by putting him in more manageable situations and letting him use his legs more.
and many of us in the past, even before that draft, the obvious move was a trade down.
Here is a look at the OL drafted in the first 3 rounds that year. This highlights the missed opportunity to fix the OL most of which could have been accomplished in just that one draft had DG traded down and used the resources gained to help the OL. I think this is complete, hopefully I didn't miss anybody.
Round 1
G Quenton Nelson
T Mike McGlinchey
T Kolton Miller
C Frank Ragnow
C Billy Price
T Isaiah Wynn
Round 2
C Austin Corbett
G Will Hernandez
G Braden Smith
C James Daniels
T Connor Williams
T Brian O'Neill
Round 3
T Brandon Parker
T Geron Christian
T Martinas Rankin
T Orlando Brown Jr.
T Joseph Noteboom
T Alex Cappa
C Mason Cole
Each of these rounds has produced studs...
Unless otherwise noted below, all are starters and playing above average to all-pro level at the position for which they were drafted. There a few players noted below that have switch positions, but are still producing at a high level.
The only non-starters on this list are Billy Price and Brandon Parker.
Here are the notes about some of them:
Billy Price - has been a bust so far.
Isaiah Wynn - has had some injuries, but he is back and been playing well.
Austin Corbett - started slow, traded, starting to come on...
Will Hernandez - yeah we know, starting but been below average
Braden Smith - has moved to RT and is playing well
James Daniels - has had some struggles, but was improving before being injured
Connor Williams - moved to guard with mixed results, but still starting
Brandon Parker - seems to be a bust
Geron Christian - starting at LT this year for WTF, but below average so far
Martinas Rankin - traded to Chiefs has had injury problems played well when he has been in
Joseph Noteboom - nearly run off the team, started playing well this year, now on IR
Alex Cappa - switched positions and has become a stud guard
The real question is, with hindsight, would the Giants have taken Nelson AND why didn't the Giants front office see this type of potential with Nelson?
Well, for one thing, they're clearly terrible at scouting offensive linemen.
What potential? You are asking as if Nelson was a diamond in the rough find. He was projected in the top 5 all along. He was not a surprise aas a prospect.
He's one of the most physically dominant players in the NFL. Why didn't the Giants have the foresight to know? That's my point.
The "you don't take a guard top 5" thing is dumb when Nelson is clearly far and away a special, special player, and his greatness isn't dependent on having a good offensive line. In fact, he makes his position group better.
We have gone over the events of the 2018 draft a good bit
but posters are still not lining things up correctly to how it went down. This is what I recall:
- Gettleman was all-in on Barkley with the #2 pick
- The Giants were not seriously interested in any of the QBs that year...at all. They had already committed to Eli and Gettleman was looking for immediate returns on the pick.
- Posters that keep bringing up Darnold, Rosen or another QB in the debate of what could have been at #2 are bringing their opinion/agenda to the discussion. Once again, the Giants were not interested in any of the QBs at #2.
- To the extent Barkley was gone and they didn't trade the pick, the Giants were going to go with edge rusher, Bradley Chubb.
- Gettleman received calls from several teams to trade down which are thought to be Cleveland, Denver and/or Buffalo.
- While the offers are not known, these teams should have been attractive trading partners because they had lots of draft capital that year and/or they still sat at the top of the first round so the drop was not that much.
- But once Cleveland took Mayfield at #1, Gettleman wasted no time working any of these offers and he picked Barkley who he had his highest grade on.
- After Round One, Gettleman came out and famously remarked "People call you and they want the second pick of the draft for a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog. Leave me alone. I don't have time to screw around."
- A day or so later on WFAN, Gettleman actually admitted he received at least one "very reasonable offer" for #2 pick.
You all can have your opinions but, imv, Gettleman could have improved the overall roster far more by working the trade-down offers and executing a deal versus picking the running back so high. Particularly since he had a much weaker team than he originally thought and admitted so later. Unfortunately his poor initial assessment of the team contributed to the events of that draft and the bad path this team has taken for past several years.
RE: We have gone over the events of the 2018 draft a good bit
You all can have your opinions but, imv, Gettleman could have improved the overall roster far more by working the trade-down offers and executing a deal versus picking the running back so high. Particularly since he had a much weaker team than he originally thought and admitted so later. Unfortunately his poor initial assessment of the team contributed to the events of that draft and the bad path this team has taken for past several years.
Picking Barkley was decorating the cake while it was still in the oven. Any talking head on tv could and would have drafted Barkley. That isn't what Gettleman is paid six figures for. To do what Sportscenter anchors would have done.
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Being a failed pick. I understand people not agreeing with the way a resource (2nd pick) was used, but even if it were a rule that you don't pick a running back 2nd, every rule has exceptions. Barkley requires the opposing defense to use a lot of resources to contain him, now unfortunately, with a roster with no other real threats that job isn't as difficult.
But if you have a roster with no other real threats and a porous OL which makes the job of shutting down Barkley not difficult, then to me he the "easy" wrong pick at the time.
Good news is we still have him, and if healthy maybe we can deal him to a team that could use his talents moreso while the Giants rebuild properly.
I would say you look at him as an important piece of the puzzle.
Picking Barkley was decorating the cake while it was still in the oven. Any talking head on tv could and would have drafted Barkley. That isn't what Gettleman is paid six figures for. To do what Sportscenter anchors would have done.
Actually, I believe he said he got it from his Mom.
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In comment 15006562 crick n NC said:
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Being a failed pick. I understand people not agreeing with the way a resource (2nd pick) was used, but even if it were a rule that you don't pick a running back 2nd, every rule has exceptions. Barkley requires the opposing defense to use a lot of resources to contain him, now unfortunately, with a roster with no other real threats that job isn't as difficult.
But if you have a roster with no other real threats and a porous OL which makes the job of shutting down Barkley not difficult, then to me he the "easy" wrong pick at the time.
Good news is we still have him, and if healthy maybe we can deal him to a team that could use his talents moreso while the Giants rebuild properly.
I would say you look at him as an important piece of the puzzle.
Maybe. I am just trying to think of the fastest way to get more good players in the door here without just going thru the annual motions of free agency & draft. And one is to barter what may be the best value we have now and build a quicker, brighter future.
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In comment 15006601 LBH15 said:
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In comment 15006562 crick n NC said:
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Being a failed pick. I understand people not agreeing with the way a resource (2nd pick) was used, but even if it were a rule that you don't pick a running back 2nd, every rule has exceptions. Barkley requires the opposing defense to use a lot of resources to contain him, now unfortunately, with a roster with no other real threats that job isn't as difficult.
But if you have a roster with no other real threats and a porous OL which makes the job of shutting down Barkley not difficult, then to me he the "easy" wrong pick at the time.
Good news is we still have him, and if healthy maybe we can deal him to a team that could use his talents moreso while the Giants rebuild properly.
I would say you look at him as an important piece of the puzzle.
Maybe. I am just trying to think of the fastest way to get more good players in the door here without just going thru the annual motions of free agency & draft. And one is to barter what may be the best value we have now and build a quicker, brighter future.
There are certainly multiple ways to go about it. Simply put, I wasn't and currently am not upset about the Barkley pick.
I am frustrated about the coaching decisions made over the past three years that have done their share of damage that have set this team back. I am also very disappointed that a first round pick at cornerback (Baker] won't net anything other than cap space. And those are only a couple of issues out of several other the past 11 years or so.
Except when you don't have the thing that RBs need to do their job.
The argument always seems to go back to "he was the most talented player". Thats not always how teams draft.
Giants fans have intentionally forgotten recent team history just to find a way to justify spending that pick on a RB while the OL and pass rush has been a flaming dumpster fire since 2013.
We all saw the Giants rise with Eli Manning from 05 to 2008 and win with pass rush,, brilliant OL and solid RBs. We chose to forget all of that because...why?
Spot on post. Because John Mara didn't like Gilbride's offense and was convinced we needed a Packers-type WC offense to succeed.
If you can't execute your offense because either the OL stinks or the WRs can't shake coverage, you have still not done your job correctly.
I think a really close comparison for Barkley is Alvin Kamara based on skillset. He is perfect where he plays because the Saints have great things around him. They're prepared to play winning football. If you put Kamara on this team he would probably suck too.
So if the player you drafted is dependent on having a functioning OL and some modicum of offensive talent around him, and you don't have that, you're putting the cherry on the cake before it's baked.
Kamara was a 3rd round pick. Saints got serious value, and as usual, DG didn't.
Now, if you told me we would trade down and/or take Nelson, I would have been on board with either or both. But, Barkley vs. Darnold was a no-brainer to me.
Personally, about 2 weeks before the draft I started reading a ton about Jackson and at the time said I wouldn't mind trading down for him. That said, it's hard to imagine what he would look like on this team with a putrid OL and few weapons. He landed on an already good Ravens team. But, what would they have done differently in last year's draft?
The real key to Barkley, for me, moving forward will be Jones. They forewent QB, which I agree with in terms of the 4 top rateds (my opinion on Jackson as stated above is different). That deferment means they put a lot of their future success on Jones. If he's not the right pick, it further sets back the franchise. If they end up feeling compelled to take Lawrence this year, it is a top pick wasted. Even if Lawrence is great, it is still a pick that could be spent elsewhere. If they don't take Lawrence or he is gone when they pick, we have an awful lot riding on Jones.
Our draft was unique: the top QBs were not that impressive and the top offensive skill guy was a runningback. If there was a year to take a guard top 5, that could have been it. I think a lot more guards would go top 5 if you did hindsight redrafts for the last 30 years.
I wanted Chubb or Nelson. I don't think Chubb's injury throws him out the window anymore than Barkley's injury does. Whose to say they get hurt at all if circumstances were different? Unless you believe athletes are born with ticking time bomb ACLs.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not surprising Barkley best year was with OBJ. So was Egnram's and Shepard's. Hmm..
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Barkley was NOT a guy who was guaranteed 4-5 yards each time he carried at PSU. I watched him in several games.
He would get stuffed multiple times and then rip off an 80 yard TD. He always threatened that every time he touched the ball.
That's what the Giants drafted. I love the player, but if fans think he was drafted to be a guy to consistently get your 4-5 yards, they are wrong. That does not mean he can't be that guy, but that's not why he was drafted that high!!
I just hope he comes back from the injury and can be effective. I think his time of injury hurts the big play potential, and that's his game.
And that's the problem with Barkley, actually. That kind of RB does not win you games in the NFL if you use him as anything more than a gadget player. That's why Barry Sanders never won anything.
You're calling Barry Sanders a gadget player? Wow.
But the bigger problem had less to do with Barkley and more to do with the front office's complete misjudgment of the roster. That was the time to blow everything up, including getting rid of Eli. Drafting Barkley was a sign that they were making another run at lightning in a bottle.
And so here we are going on 3 seasons later. Completely lost.
They should’ve used Eli or a journeyman as a placeholder until the foundation wa rebuilt. In 18 they could’ve fixed the OL or close to it. In 19 they could’ve solved the pass rusher problem with Allen and Sweat with their first two picks. This year they could’ve taken Tua or Herbert.
Well, for one thing, they're clearly terrible at scouting offensive linemen.
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Barkley himself has been, to this point, ineffectual. Even his excellent personal statistics in 2018 (which will probably end up being the best year of his career) didn't help the Giants be better than 5-11 and 16th in the NFL in scoring.
But the bigger problem had less to do with Barkley and more to do with the front office's complete misjudgment of the roster. That was the time to blow everything up, including getting rid of Eli. Drafting Barkley was a sign that they were making another run at lightning in a bottle.
And so here we are going on 3 seasons later. Completely lost.
They should’ve used Eli or a journeyman as a placeholder until the foundation wa rebuilt. In 18 they could’ve fixed the OL or close to it. In 19 they could’ve solved the pass rusher problem with Allen and Sweat with their first two picks. This year they could’ve taken Tua or Herbert.
Ding Ding. The offensive skills players were already in place. Tweak it, not de-fang it
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The real question is, with hindsight, would the Giants have taken Nelson AND why didn't the Giants front office see this type of potential with Nelson?
Well, for one thing, they're clearly terrible at scouting offensive linemen.
It's honestly so bad that it's awe inspiring. They don't hit on any player at OL.
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was fine taking Barkley or Donald. I typically don't want to take a RB with a top five pick for all of the usual reasons, but saw Barkely as a generational and transformational player. I also would have been happy trading down. Cleveland apparently offered #4 and both of their second round picks to move up to #2, and someone else said that Denver was prepared to offer a "king's ransom" for the pick.
If that Cleveland offer is true, that is a pretty big mistake. That would have given them 4th overall, 33rd and 35th to move back 2 spots.
DG has never admitted to any details of what offers he had, but when a reporter (I think it was Garafolo) challenged his hot dogs and doughnuts with evidence hed had about the Cleveland offer and a potential Denver offer, DG finally admitted that he received at least 1 credible offer.
So yes, the offers were there, DG did nothing to work them, and yes it was an incredible mistake. One for which we are still paying.
I didn't really mind the DG hire at first, but once this sequence of events occurred I quickly soured on him.
Think about what the OL was heading into that draft — Solder, Omameh, and Flowers. That’s it.
It’s not even about making the mistake of one more run with Eli. The OL had to be fixed either way. DG has touted “hog mollies” since day 1 and done an absolute shit job acquiring them.
That was also the deepest draft for OL in over a decade.
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In comment 15005903 AcidTest said:
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DG has never admitted to any details of what offers he had, but when a reporter (I think it was Garafolo) challenged his hot dogs and doughnuts with evidence hed had about the Cleveland offer and a potential Denver offer, DG finally admitted that he received at least 1 credible offer.
So yes, the offers were there, DG did nothing to work them, and yes it was an incredible mistake. One for which we are still paying.
I didn't really mind the DG hire at first, but once this sequence of events occurred I quickly soured on him.
We should have traded down with the Bills. They called Gettleman prior to the draft as they were looking to leapfrog the Jets to get a QB. They had 2 first round picks and 2 second round picks in that draft.
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Barkley himself has been, to this point, ineffectual. Even his excellent personal statistics in 2018 (which will probably end up being the best year of his career) didn't help the Giants be better than 5-11 and 16th in the NFL in scoring.
But the bigger problem had less to do with Barkley and more to do with the front office's complete misjudgment of the roster. That was the time to blow everything up, including getting rid of Eli. Drafting Barkley was a sign that they were making another run at lightning in a bottle.
And so here we are going on 3 seasons later. Completely lost.
They should’ve used Eli or a journeyman as a placeholder until the foundation wa rebuilt. In 18 they could’ve fixed the OL or close to it. In 19 they could’ve solved the pass rusher problem with Allen and Sweat with their first two picks. This year they could’ve taken Tua or Herbert.
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The real question is, with hindsight, would the Giants have taken Nelson AND why didn't the Giants front office see this type of potential with Nelson?
Well, for one thing, they're clearly terrible at scouting offensive linemen.
Having said that, as the article outlines, as I've said multiple times on this boars (not that anyone really should listen to me lol, I'm just another guy) -- Nelson was NEVER the alternative. He wasn't gonna go #2. It was a Barkley vs Darnold (maybe Allen/Rosen) pick. Has there even been any indication that Nelson was going to go #2 and was on the Giants radar?
It wasn't going to happen, so its barely worth discussing. The bigger issue is that I'd rather have Chubb than Barkley for the type of team this is. the Giants aren't at the level that a home run hitter does them any good - it doesn't help win games to the degree that someone who can:
1) get 3-4 yards,
2)move the chains along, and
3) help the O stay out of 3rd and long
would do.
Barkley was a luxury pick that I hated at the time; but Nelson was never going to be the pick, and the alternative was one of the QBs. Truth be told, I'm not sold that Darnold would be worse than Jones on this team. Darnold sucks but the Jets somehow are even more atrocious than the Giants.
I'd rather have Darnold/Josh Allen (DE) than Saquon/Jones. I'm going to per-emptively ask that you don't attack me for my opinion, I just think the team would be better with those two players. It's just my fucking opinion lol, not casting judgement per se.
The dearth of talent in regards to rushing the passer is far bigger than the delta between Barkley and another RB -- particularly considering Barkleys "lose a yard, gain a yard, lose 2 yards, 3 yard gain, 50 yard TD run" style. That's the flashy shit you put on good teams, not the type of RB you want on a dogshit team with an awful OL and a rookie QB (after trading your best WR).
Never thought I'd say this, but give me three yards and a cloud of dust for this fucking team. At least it might keep us in games and keep us in 3rd and 4, not 3rd and 9. Might even make Jones better by putting him in more manageable situations and letting him use his legs more.
Here is a look at the OL drafted in the first 3 rounds that year. This highlights the missed opportunity to fix the OL most of which could have been accomplished in just that one draft had DG traded down and used the resources gained to help the OL. I think this is complete, hopefully I didn't miss anybody.
Round 1
G Quenton Nelson
T Mike McGlinchey
T Kolton Miller
C Frank Ragnow
C Billy Price
T Isaiah Wynn
Round 2
C Austin Corbett
G Will Hernandez
G Braden Smith
C James Daniels
T Connor Williams
T Brian O'Neill
Round 3
T Brandon Parker
T Geron Christian
T Martinas Rankin
T Orlando Brown Jr.
T Joseph Noteboom
T Alex Cappa
C Mason Cole
Each of these rounds has produced studs...
Unless otherwise noted below, all are starters and playing above average to all-pro level at the position for which they were drafted. There a few players noted below that have switch positions, but are still producing at a high level.
The only non-starters on this list are Billy Price and Brandon Parker.
Here are the notes about some of them:
Billy Price - has been a bust so far.
Isaiah Wynn - has had some injuries, but he is back and been playing well.
Austin Corbett - started slow, traded, starting to come on...
Will Hernandez - yeah we know, starting but been below average
Braden Smith - has moved to RT and is playing well
James Daniels - has had some struggles, but was improving before being injured
Connor Williams - moved to guard with mixed results, but still starting
Brandon Parker - seems to be a bust
Geron Christian - starting at LT this year for WTF, but below average so far
Martinas Rankin - traded to Chiefs has had injury problems played well when he has been in
Joseph Noteboom - nearly run off the team, started playing well this year, now on IR
Alex Cappa - switched positions and has become a stud guard
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In comment 15006834 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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The real question is, with hindsight, would the Giants have taken Nelson AND why didn't the Giants front office see this type of potential with Nelson?
Well, for one thing, they're clearly terrible at scouting offensive linemen.
What potential? You are asking as if Nelson was a diamond in the rough find. He was projected in the top 5 all along. He was not a surprise aas a prospect.
He's one of the most physically dominant players in the NFL. Why didn't the Giants have the foresight to know? That's my point.
The "you don't take a guard top 5" thing is dumb when Nelson is clearly far and away a special, special player, and his greatness isn't dependent on having a good offensive line. In fact, he makes his position group better.
- Gettleman was all-in on Barkley with the #2 pick
- The Giants were not seriously interested in any of the QBs that year...at all. They had already committed to Eli and Gettleman was looking for immediate returns on the pick.
- Posters that keep bringing up Darnold, Rosen or another QB in the debate of what could have been at #2 are bringing their opinion/agenda to the discussion. Once again, the Giants were not interested in any of the QBs at #2.
- To the extent Barkley was gone and they didn't trade the pick, the Giants were going to go with edge rusher, Bradley Chubb.
- Gettleman received calls from several teams to trade down which are thought to be Cleveland, Denver and/or Buffalo.
- While the offers are not known, these teams should have been attractive trading partners because they had lots of draft capital that year and/or they still sat at the top of the first round so the drop was not that much.
- But once Cleveland took Mayfield at #1, Gettleman wasted no time working any of these offers and he picked Barkley who he had his highest grade on.
- After Round One, Gettleman came out and famously remarked "People call you and they want the second pick of the draft for a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog. Leave me alone. I don't have time to screw around."
- A day or so later on WFAN, Gettleman actually admitted he received at least one "very reasonable offer" for #2 pick.
You all can have your opinions but, imv, Gettleman could have improved the overall roster far more by working the trade-down offers and executing a deal versus picking the running back so high. Particularly since he had a much weaker team than he originally thought and admitted so later. Unfortunately his poor initial assessment of the team contributed to the events of that draft and the bad path this team has taken for past several years.