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| By winning his fourth NBA title, LeBron James has not only just leaped into history, he’s also leaped over Michael Jordan in the heated, ongoing debate over which player is greatest. James scored 28 points and had a triple-double Sunday to lead the Los Angeles Lakers to the franchise’s 17th NBA title. There has not been another NBA superstar to lead three different teams to a championship: not Jordan, not Magic Johnson, not Kobe Bryant. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar led the Milwaukee Bucks to a title and then helped the Lakers win five, but no one has matched James. Indeed, the most important element in leapfrogging James over Jordan is what James has done off the court. What James has accomplished outside of basketball has elevated his stature in the pantheon of Black athlete activists. |
They've done very different things in their careers.
Wherever he goes.....the rings follow.
The Knicks should have handed him 40% ownership to sign him out of Cleveland or even Miami.....because he would have brought us championships and he would still be part of the team beyond his retirement as part owner.
But the answer is give me Lebron over anybody else who ever wore an NBA uniform!!!!
Wherever he goes.....other superstars and rings follow.
FIFY
The Cleveland championship Inwill give him credit for to take on that challenger, but I will never look past the jumping around to play gm and create your teams. The stat that he is the only player to win with 3 different teams to me is completely unimpressive. I don’t understand why we are celebrating that. I am more impressed with staying together and winning it.
Stop with the idiocy. Lebron is overrated in a league that no longer plays defense. Go watch the Bulls against the Pistons...Lebron lives in the world of touch fouls. Jordan would make Harden look like an average scorer in this era.
Where's LeBron off to next?
Seems like that lack of stability would be a negative, not a positive. IOW I think it's probably harder to remain a consistent winner than to win and leave and pick where you go next.
Seems like that lack of stability would be a negative, not a positive. IOW I think it's probably harder to remain a consistent winner than to win and leave and pick where you go next.
this. I'm so sick of the NBA and all these players coming together to make these super teams then bounce after a couple of seasons. I don't know why anyone would find this remotely interesting but thats just me.
Stop with the idiocy. Lebron is overrated in a league that no longer plays defense. Go watch the Bulls against the Pistons...Lebron lives in the world of touch fouls. Jordan would make Harden look like an average scorer in this era.
This is correct. If you watched Jordan's career, to say LeBron is greater is kind of laughable. What happened with LeBron last year? It's nice of Anthony Davis to carry LeBron to another title so people can make crazy comparisons to Jordan again. They are no more valid than they were before. Jordan would've swept that Heat team, too.
Kind of like Tom Brady and Joe Montana. Whoever you think is the best is the best.
Which team was better the 1974 Steelers or the 1999 Rams?
This is all subjective nonsense.
MJ still king!
Again im with Jordan, But if anyone carried the lakers to the title it was more lebron then AD. Swap Lebron and Paul George and that lakers team gets knocked out in the second round at best.
LeBron James can't sniff Jordan's jock as a competitor.
I'd say LeBron is the new Isiah Thomas after leaving the court early before a loss is even final. A real sportsman he is.
2 titles in Miami with that team don't impress anyone after boasting 6.
That title in Cleveland is nice but it was Kyrie who knocked down the big shot.
Now he's in LA manipulating the league in his favor once again. So he wins a title in a weird, broken up season.
Big deal.
Plus, I'm sure if they looked hard enough there was another player on championship teams for 3 franchises.
Jordan also wasn't a cornball
So that's 2 things right there in Jordan's favor
Jordan was gifted excellent organizational stability, had Phil Jackson and Scottie Pipppen for all six rings, and for both threepeats had perfect complements to build around him-- Grant, Paxson, Armstrong; and then Rodman, Harper, Kerr, and Kukoc.
LeBron didn't have that from his front office, and so he had to go out and do that himself. Some will call it ring chasing, others will say that he could have gone to other organizations to chase rings-- also, the same way LeBron moved around to various franchises is indicative of the era. Plenty of other stars were moving around to team up as well creating new challenges each season.
Another way to look at it is that LeBron and his achievements aren't tethered to any particular coach, system, or set of teammates. He has won in a variety of ways with a variety of players.
One of the hardest things to do in sports is win a title. The next hardest thing to do is win another one. Then comes a dynasty, and being undefeated in said dynasty.
The closest anyone came to matching the Jordan Bulls was the Golden State Warriors that won 3 of 5 in a row. Then what happens? Injuries, players leave to get paid, complacency set in, etc.
I'd love just one good reason why winning 4 titles with 3 different mercenary teams is better than going 6-0 across almost an entire decade of changes and challenges.
One of the hardest things to do in sports is win a title. The next hardest thing to do is win another one. Then comes a dynasty, and being undefeated in said dynasty.
The closest anyone came to matching the Jordan Bulls was the Golden State Warriors that won 3 of 5 in a row. Then what happens? Injuries, players leave to get paid, complacency set in, etc.
I'd love just one good reason why winning 4 titles with 3 different mercenary teams is better than going 6-0 across almost an entire decade of changes and challenges.
It's not better. Not at all.
And that Miami team is still the only team I can think of that actually had a championship type celebration before ever taking the court once.
People might not like the style of basketball in this era (more spacing, 3's, freedom of movement, and quickness, but it certainly isn't "gahbage." It's played at an exceptionally high level.
Again im with Jordan, But if anyone carried the lakers to the title it was more lebron then AD. Swap Lebron and Paul George and that lakers team gets knocked out in the second round at best.
It was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but seriously, AD is a great, great player. And yes, there is a lot of other talent on that Lakers roster. Waiters is good, of course Kuzma is good. Bunch of good role players. But Lebron doesn't win that title with say, Rudy Gobert instead of Davis, either.
Whether that's ultimately persuasive is up for debate. Jordan was amazing, but he never won without Pippen and he never won without Phil. Could he have? Perhaps, but we've never seen it.
It's similar to an evaluation of Tom Brady. Exceptional career, absolutely a champion and one of the greats. But how much of his success was due to him, and how much was due to Belichick and the system? Until this year in Tampa, we haven't seen him lead a winner outside of that ecosystem. It's not his fault as he hasn't had the opportunity, it's just another variable.
Imagine if the Ewing had that same ability. Probably would have a few 'ships himself. Hell, imagine if Karl Malone said fuck it, I can't beat Jordan...might as well join him.
One of the hardest things to do in sports is win a title. The next hardest thing to do is win another one. Then comes a dynasty, and being undefeated in said dynasty.
The closest anyone came to matching the Jordan Bulls was the Golden State Warriors that won 3 of 5 in a row. Then what happens? Injuries, players leave to get paid, complacency set in, etc.
I'd love just one good reason why winning 4 titles with 3 different mercenary teams is better than going 6-0 across almost an entire decade of changes and challenges.
To further your point, they very well probably win 8 titles in a row if Jordan doesn't get bored and go off to play baseball for the Birmingham Barons. He came back in '94-'95, and really wasn't fully back yet when they lost to Shaq and Penny in the playoffs. He then went on a string of three more titles before retiring before his age 35 season. In his age 34 season, he was still performing close to the top of his game.
If Jordan doesn't retire, and Krause doesn't break up that team, who knows. They could've conceivably won 9 or 10 in a row. But if Jordan doesn't play baseball, and he keeps that team together for another couple of years after '98, to say that he would still have ended his career with *only* 6 titles is the height of absurdity.
Whether that's ultimately persuasive is up for debate. Jordan was amazing, but he never won without Pippen and he never won without Phil. Could he have? Perhaps, but we've never seen it.
It's similar to an evaluation of Tom Brady. Exceptional career, absolutely a champion and one of the greats. But how much of his success was due to him, and how much was due to Belichick and the system? Until this year in Tampa, we haven't seen him lead a winner outside of that ecosystem. It's not his fault as he hasn't had the opportunity, it's just another variable.
I get it, i just think its a really massive stretch in the current NBA. How much more comfortable can LeBron get - he hand picks his teammates and coaches.
The whole thing is laughable to me. He's now getting applauded for being a mercenary, haha. Great player but an article like that doesn't help his legacy, it actually dampens it IMO. It reminds me how dumb the current NBA is.
that is my takeaway from the finals.
Magic brought up the move in the 1991 finals where MJ switched hands in mid-air and fooled all 5 Lakers. He thinks no one since has been able to do things that Jordan has individually or from a team standpoint.
He's a great speaker by the way.
Jordan was a fantastic scorer, and while I'm sure he would have adapted to the increase in 3-point shooting and improved his shot, and the gather step rules would have given him even more room to operate and create separation, that also has to be tempered by the change in what's allowed on defense (no more illegal defense) and so teams could throw a lot more varied defensive schemes at Jordan as well.
And the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. If Jordan no longer had to worry about hand-checking and hard fouls in the paint, then he also couldn't hand check or foul hard. I'm sure LeBron with his freakish strength/speed combo would have loved to play defense during a time where he could hand-check guards freely and hack them when they drove.
Whether that's ultimately persuasive is up for debate. Jordan was amazing, but he never won without Pippen and he never won without Phil. Could he have? Perhaps, but we've never seen it.
It's similar to an evaluation of Tom Brady. Exceptional career, absolutely a champion and one of the greats. But how much of his success was due to him, and how much was due to Belichick and the system? Until this year in Tampa, we haven't seen him lead a winner outside of that ecosystem. It's not his fault as he hasn't had the opportunity, it's just another variable.
Did you watch that era of baskeball? Just curious. Pippen wasn't the reason Jordan won. He was another really good player on that team. But Jordan could've done it with a Larry Johnson or a Sean Elliott as a complimentary player. There's no substitute to watching his greatness during that era.
Scottie Pippen went to Houston in '98 with Barkley and Olajuwon and that team didn't do squat, with some pretty good role players on that team, too.
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the argument is that LeBron winning with three different franchises/coaches shows that he isn't tethered to any particular system, coach, teammate, organizations.
Whether that's ultimately persuasive is up for debate. Jordan was amazing, but he never won without Pippen and he never won without Phil. Could he have? Perhaps, but we've never seen it.
It's similar to an evaluation of Tom Brady. Exceptional career, absolutely a champion and one of the greats. But how much of his success was due to him, and how much was due to Belichick and the system? Until this year in Tampa, we haven't seen him lead a winner outside of that ecosystem. It's not his fault as he hasn't had the opportunity, it's just another variable.
Did you watch that era of baskeball? Just curious. Pippen wasn't the reason Jordan won. He was another really good player on that team. But Jordan could've done it with a Larry Johnson or a Sean Elliott as a complimentary player. There's no substitute to watching his greatness during that era.
Scottie Pippen went to Houston in '98 with Barkley and Olajuwon and that team didn't do squat, with some pretty good role players on that team, too.
Scottie was 33 years old, coming off back surgery. He wasn’t the same player. Don’t disrespect his contribution to those teams.
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In comment 15006646 PaulBlakeTSU said:
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the argument is that LeBron winning with three different franchises/coaches shows that he isn't tethered to any particular system, coach, teammate, organizations.
Whether that's ultimately persuasive is up for debate. Jordan was amazing, but he never won without Pippen and he never won without Phil. Could he have? Perhaps, but we've never seen it.
It's similar to an evaluation of Tom Brady. Exceptional career, absolutely a champion and one of the greats. But how much of his success was due to him, and how much was due to Belichick and the system? Until this year in Tampa, we haven't seen him lead a winner outside of that ecosystem. It's not his fault as he hasn't had the opportunity, it's just another variable.
Did you watch that era of baskeball? Just curious. Pippen wasn't the reason Jordan won. He was another really good player on that team. But Jordan could've done it with a Larry Johnson or a Sean Elliott as a complimentary player. There's no substitute to watching his greatness during that era.
Scottie Pippen went to Houston in '98 with Barkley and Olajuwon and that team didn't do squat, with some pretty good role players on that team, too.
Scottie was 33 years old, coming off back surgery. He wasn’t the same player. Don’t disrespect his contribution to those teams.
The overall team was better than what Jordan had. I'm not disrespecting his contribution, and Pippen was a very good player, probably a great player, but Jordan could've won without Pippen, but Pippen wouldn't have won without Jordan. Pippen would never have won a title if he had to be the main guy, is what I'm saying. He wasn't the type to carry a team. He was maybe the best complimentary player Jordan could ever ask for, because he was very good in all phases of the game.