Currently we have the #1 pick. Do we draft Lawrence or see if we can get a Kings ransom for the pick. Either way I hope someone besides Gettleman gets to make this decision
It would be a mistake to move on from Jones so quickly. There isn’t one team with a worse collection of skill position players and a worse offensive line. Trevor Lawrence on this team is still 0-5.
Right now my 1st round targets would be
1. Trade down
2. Penei Sewell
3. Patrick Surtain II
I disagree. Not certain Lawrence makes those costly turnovers that cost us 2 games.
are in position to draft a QB whether Lawrence or somebody else and they Judge thinks it is a clear upgrade then you go for it imo.
Jones has the rest of the year to make his case and Judge is evaluating. It would be great if he thinks he can win with him. Yesterday the end of the game showed again the Giants need closers at two spots. Edge and WR. Edge guys are really hard to get later in the draft.
If we are picking first, Jones proved he’s not good enough. Also, he’d be entering year #3 of his rookie contract with no progress made in terms of wins.
I'll echo bw above; there's something that looked a little off with him compared to past performance. That said, he's as good a talent as you're gonna get at the position coming out of college.
If the Giants have the first pick they must take Lawrence. They absolutely must.
But it is a bit ridiculous how often this topic is coming up 5 games into the season. Holding out hope for the first pick with 11 games remaining, and all that would have to happen for the Giants to pick first, seems an exercise in futility.
I find myself in agreement with many of your posts, but not with you on the Jones’ thing
I ve seen two other great Giants quarterbacks suffer similar beginnings to their careers. I still feel confident Jones can be something special.
every year we hear about "the best since..." and rarely does it ever actually come to fruition. They said it about Darnold when he was a freshman, they said it about Tua as well. Now, it is Lawrence, who certainly, absolutely, looks the part of a #1 overall great QB prospect.
But, his NFL projection isn't going to be clear until he steps on the field.
I don’t recall anyone saying that about any of those QBs. The only QB since Manning who qualified was Luck.
You watched Miami and something was off with him? Clemson played the #7 team in the country and went 29-42 for 292 yards with 3 td passes and 0 int. On the season he is 84-116 for 1140 yards with 10 TD passes in 4 games and 0 int's. He also has 4 rushing td's. And his stat line would probably be even better but he has the best RB in the country, Travis Etienne.
If that indicates something "off", I want some of that. Wow. No one is a sure bet to succeed in the NFL but he is so much better than any other prospect it is ridiculous.
You watched Miami and something was off with him? Clemson played the #7 team in the country and went 29-42 for 292 yards with 3 td passes and 0 int. On the season he is 84-116 for 1140 yards with 10 TD passes in 4 games and 0 int's. He also has 4 rushing td's. And his stat line would probably be even better but he has the best RB in the country, Travis Etienne.
If that indicates something "off", I want some of that. Wow. No one is a sure bet to succeed in the NFL but he is so much better than any other prospect it is ridiculous.
I get the stats. They should be exceptional with the talent base Lawrence plays with. That doesn't mean Lawrence may not be throwing with the same velocity as years prior. And that maybe his footwork has slipped...
Look, he's the top prospect. But I think further scrutiny is always wise.
Just keep in mind, in addition to this year's stats, his QB rating is higher this year than either his Freshman and Sophomore years..For what it's worth.
on this board who thought taking a running back #2 was a good idea, and we have so many people on this board who think the Giants should trade out of the #1 if Lawrence is there.
This 7 years stretch of horrendous football has really fucked up peoples brains.
on this board who thought taking a running back #2 was a good idea, and we have so many people on this board who think the Giants should trade out of the #1 if Lawrence is there.
This 7 years stretch of horrendous football has really fucked up peoples brains.
Mook - I would only trade out of #1 if Jones showed a Hell of a lot over the next 11 games. Since, that isn't likely, I would take Lawrence. Of course the draft is always a crap shoot in reality, Lawrence is much closer to a sure thing.
I ve seen two other great Giants quarterbacks suffer similar beginnings to their careers. I still feel confident Jones can be something special.
Serious question - based on what exactly with Jones to date? Where have you seen the "special" that convinces you more may be on the way...?
I base my opinion on his athletic ability. I believe he has arm talent, he is smart and has made plays over the past two years that have me convinced he can be special.
He has lost confidence and is playing tentatively at the moment. I expected him to slide some this season. But I also expect the light to come in the near future and when it does he can be special
I ve seen two other great Giants quarterbacks suffer similar beginnings to their careers. I still feel confident Jones can be something special.
Serious question - based on what exactly with Jones to date? Where have you seen the "special" that convinces you more may be on the way...?
I base my opinion on his athletic ability. I believe he has arm talent, he is smart and has made plays over the past two years that have me convinced he can be special.
He has lost confidence and is playing tentatively at the moment. I expected him to slide some this season. But I also expect the light to come in the near future and when it does he can be special
I agree he has talent with his legs and arm. He also has made some special plays. Nobody is denying that. But in those games he also made negative plays to cost us. He has turned the ball over at least once in almost every game he played, multiple times in many.
I don't see a lack of confidence. I see a lack of a step forward as of yet. He is a good athlete and likely a good QB. But, I am not convinced he can be a great QB, especially not all on his own.
We'll of course beat Washington twice because that's what we do &-if Bro/Evan are to believed-the Jets will probably go 0-16.
Yup. Despite fans getting mocked for thinking they won’t pick 1st, the fact is it is incredibly difficult to pick #1. A lot of bad luck needs to happen. The Giants are in their worst stretch of football (12-41 since 2017), how many times have the Giants picked #1 in that time frame?
My point is this - if things are so bad that we are picking 1, how could you keep Jones? Especially to keep Jones over what is widely considered the best QB since Luck? Keeping Jones under that scenario would be reckless.
We'll of course beat Washington twice because that's what we do &-if Bro/Evan are to believed-the Jets will probably go 0-16.
They were talking about Gase today and a caller had a funny one “don’t sever for Trevor”. I laughed and then I doubly laughed when Bro was like I know but he makes me sick looking at him on the sideline. As bad as the Giants are and have been I couldn’t imagine what it’s like to be a Jets fan at this point.
We'll of course beat Washington twice because that's what we do &-if Bro/Evan are to believed-the Jets will probably go 0-16.
They were talking about Gase today and a caller had a funny one “don’t sever for Trevor”. I laughed and then I doubly laughed when Bro was like I know but he makes me sick looking at him on the sideline. As bad as the Giants are and have been I couldn’t imagine what it’s like to be a Jets fan at this point.
In one week Gase potentially ruined the careers of their 2 best players.
Jones will have had an awful season & you gotta take Lawrence. Personally, I want Lawrence; I think he's that special, but we'll win some meaningless games-aren't they all now?-& end up with the 2nd or 3rd pick. And who knows...Fields?
Jones will have had an awful season & you gotta take Lawrence. Personally, I want Lawrence; I think he's that special, but we'll win some meaningless games-aren't they all now?-& end up with the 2nd or 3rd pick. And who knows...Fields?
In that scenario, they need to take Penei Sewell and move Thomas to the right side. There’s no reason Jones couldn’t at least replicate what Tannehill is doing given a good o-line and some running game.
a new GM is not going to hitch his wagon to someone elses QB
This really is it in a nutshell. If the giants are anywhere near the first pick it more than likely means DG is outta here. If he’s outta here. It all but guarantees that jones didn’t show that much here in 2020. And if that is where we’re at, the new GM is likely to go qb l. Especially if the qbs are as good as most believe.
But we aren’t there yet. Not even 1/3 of the way through the season. Can we wait.
Already? Jeez.
Frankly, if the Giants pick first, I’d rather see them trade down and invest in some stud players—really TOP players—at the lines. Build an actual team from the bottom up instead of drafting hotshot skill players. If they can do that, every single other player on the roster improves. *Then* we can assess Jones.
Don’t assume that Lawrence will fare much better on our crappy team.
It would be a mistake to move on from Jones so quickly. . . Trevor Lawrence on this team is still 0-5.
It has nothing to do with "moving on from Jones" but rather getting a potential superstar QB.
IMO the difference between TL and DJ is the super QB in Lawrence is right now quite a bit better than Jones. As a result, the team probably has 2 wins and maybe 3. Along with possibly you wouldn't have seen that crucial blunder DJ made vs San Fran at the end of the half that changed the momentum/flow of the game if that were Lawrence instead.
But, there is a lot of season left. The Giants have lost 3 games by one score or less. The Jets on the other hand have not been competitive.
I believe the Jets are more likely to land #1 overall.
That said, if the Giants are in position to take Justin Fields/Trey Lance, they should definitely consider if Jones doesn't show signs of improvement down the stretch.
There’s a cap argument to make as well in this hypo
be compelled to pick Lawrence. You can’t pass on the opportunity of having the first pick and being able to take a guy who many consider a generational talent. It would be career suicide if you passed and the guy turns out to be a great player, further plunging this franchise into the bottom rung of the football depths.
i'm thinking we finish 6-10. There's no way on earth that's good enough for the #1 pick.
LOL, that means we'll finish the season 6-5, which is not happening. We have left the Washington Football Team and Eagles twice, the Bucs, Bengals, Seahawks, Cardinals, Browns, Ravens, and Cowboys.
I think we'll split with Washington but it wouldn't suprise me if we lost both, we'll lose to the Eagles at least once, and I believe ALL the other teams beat us easily, yes, even the Dalton-led Cowboys, and even the Bengals.
Sure, we could steal a win from the Bengals, but I don't think this team will win more than 4 games. That's still pretty good with 11 games left, and probably too good to get the first pick. But I think 2-14 is more likely, and that has a good chance to be good enough to get the first pick. It should be noted, however, that the Jets' remaining schedule is probably more difficult than ours.
The Jets have: Patriots twice, the Dolphins twice, then the Bills, Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders, Seahawks, Rams, and Browns.
They will have to surprise some people, because there aren't playing any bad teams on that schedule except the Dolphins, who played very well on Sunday in blowing out the 49ers.
I think its important to give him this season and next.
The excitement he brought to the game when first playing is still there but covered by clouds of 2020 and all that came with it, no preseason, new system etc.
If we were to get the first pick trade down as we still have many other holes.
If we let Jones go and he blossomed say on DallASS, or the Bird, Pats etc. OMG ....
You cannot keep reaching we need a better front office.
The absolute dumbest thing you can possibly do is pass on an elite prospect because of a 'maybe', whose early returns are mixed and really not what you'd hope to be at this point.
You don't pass on Michael Jordan because you already have Danny Ainge. You just don't do that.
i'm thinking we finish 6-10. There's no way on earth that's good enough for the #1 pick.
LOL, that means we'll finish the season 6-5, which is not happening. We have left the Washington Football Team and Eagles twice, the Bucs, Bengals, Seahawks, Cardinals, Browns, Ravens, and Cowboys.
I think we'll split with Washington but it wouldn't suprise me if we lost both, we'll lose to the Eagles at least once, and I believe ALL the other teams beat us easily, yes, even the Dalton-led Cowboys, and even the Bengals.
Sure, we could steal a win from the Bengals, but I don't think this team will win more than 4 games. That's still pretty good with 11 games left, and probably too good to get the first pick. But I think 2-14 is more likely, and that has a good chance to be good enough to get the first pick. It should be noted, however, that the Jets' remaining schedule is probably more difficult than ours.
The Jets have: Patriots twice, the Dolphins twice, then the Bills, Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders, Seahawks, Rams, and Browns.
They will have to surprise some people, because there aren't playing any bad teams on that schedule except the Dolphins, who played very well on Sunday in blowing out the 49ers.
me too I think it's 2 wins. I don't know how anybody sees 6 wins.
You watched Miami and something was off with him? Clemson played the #7 team in the country and went 29-42 for 292 yards with 3 td passes and 0 int. On the season he is 84-116 for 1140 yards with 10 TD passes in 4 games and 0 int's. He also has 4 rushing td's. And his stat line would probably be even better but he has the best RB in the country, Travis Etienne.
If that indicates something "off", I want some of that. Wow. No one is a sure bet to succeed in the NFL but he is so much better than any other prospect it is ridiculous.
I get the stats. They should be exceptional with the talent base Lawrence plays with. That doesn't mean Lawrence may not be throwing with the same velocity as years prior. And that maybe his footwork has slipped...
Look, he's the top prospect. But I think further scrutiny is always wise.
It's an odd season with COVID and all.
Some of these technical issues maybe lack of time for proper coaching and practice. Not sure how much I would read into minor issues this year.
And before somebody screams that I am giving the benefit of the doubt to TL, and not to DJ because of the COVID crap... TL is still playing at a high level, and he has earned the benefit of the doubt. DJ isn't, and hasn't.
Mentioned this earlier but shouldn’t the discussion on TL
be mostly about his performances against top teams? And with all due respect to a ACC fans, I am mostly interested in his playoff games last season. He clearly rolled over Alabama two years ago but that wasn’t the case last January vs Ohio St and LSU.
Not suggesting there is a better prospect as of yet or that it’s not unreasonable for him to have “lesser” games vs better competition. But that really needs to be the measuring stick if Giants have to throw him to the wolves with our crappy roster.
No?
RE: Mentioned this earlier but shouldn’t the discussion on TL
be mostly about his performances against top teams? And with all due respect to a ACC fans, I am mostly interested in his playoff games last season. He clearly rolled over Alabama two years ago but that wasn’t the case last January vs Ohio St and LSU.
Not suggesting there is a better prospect as of yet or that it’s not unreasonable for him to have “lesser” games vs better competition. But that really needs to be the measuring stick if Giants have to throw him to the wolves with our crappy roster.
No?
I don't agree. I thought he was darn good vs Ohio State. Similar to Eli vs San Fran. Showed incredible toughness. Passed for 259 and ran for 106 vs an extremely tough defense-- I think he showed extreme metal. Because of this game and the Alabama game - he is someone you got to choose if you have the chance.
Right now my 1st round targets would be
1. Trade down
2. Penei Sewell
3. Patrick Surtain II
Jones has the rest of the year to make his case and Judge is evaluating. It would be great if he thinks he can win with him. Yesterday the end of the game showed again the Giants need closers at two spots. Edge and WR. Edge guys are really hard to get later in the draft.
If the Giants have the first pick they must take Lawrence. They absolutely must.
I find myself in agreement with many of your posts, but not with you on the Jones’ thing
I ve seen two other great Giants quarterbacks suffer similar beginnings to their careers. I still feel confident Jones can be something special.
But, his NFL projection isn't going to be clear until he steps on the field.
I don’t recall anyone saying that about any of those QBs. The only QB since Manning who qualified was Luck.
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i'm thinking we finish 6-10. There's no way on earth that's good enough for the #1 pick.
Speaking of not being on earth.
Yes. Love to know how we go 6-5 the rest of the way.
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In comment 15006744 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
i'm thinking we finish 6-10. There's no way on earth that's good enough for the #1 pick.
Speaking of not being on earth.
Yes. Love to know how we go 6-5 the rest of the way.
Presumably we are admitted to the Big Ten conference.
I ve seen two other great Giants quarterbacks suffer similar beginnings to their careers. I still feel confident Jones can be something special.
Serious question - based on what exactly with Jones to date? Where have you seen the "special" that convinces you more may be on the way...?
If that indicates something "off", I want some of that. Wow. No one is a sure bet to succeed in the NFL but he is so much better than any other prospect it is ridiculous.
First place - ( New Window )
If that indicates something "off", I want some of that. Wow. No one is a sure bet to succeed in the NFL but he is so much better than any other prospect it is ridiculous.
I get the stats. They should be exceptional with the talent base Lawrence plays with. That doesn't mean Lawrence may not be throwing with the same velocity as years prior. And that maybe his footwork has slipped...
Look, he's the top prospect. But I think further scrutiny is always wise.
They've been the worst team in football over the last 3 years. They're 0-5 this year. They have as much chance to go 0-16 as they do 3-13.
This team sucks balls. Some of you are still in denial about that.
They have as good of a chance as any to get the 1st pick
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i'm thinking we finish 6-10. There's no way on earth that's good enough for the #1 pick.
Speaking of not being on earth.
LOL! 6-10 was likely this teams ceiling coming into week 1.
0-5 and people still think we finish with 6 wins? If you think this team is going 6-5 the rest of the way you are absolutely clueless.
This 7 years stretch of horrendous football has really fucked up peoples brains.
This 7 years stretch of horrendous football has really fucked up peoples brains.
Quote:
I ve seen two other great Giants quarterbacks suffer similar beginnings to their careers. I still feel confident Jones can be something special.
Serious question - based on what exactly with Jones to date? Where have you seen the "special" that convinces you more may be on the way...?
I base my opinion on his athletic ability. I believe he has arm talent, he is smart and has made plays over the past two years that have me convinced he can be special.
He has lost confidence and is playing tentatively at the moment. I expected him to slide some this season. But I also expect the light to come in the near future and when it does he can be special
They've been the worst team in football over the last 3 years. They're 0-5 this year. They have as much chance to go 0-16 as they do 3-13.
This team sucks balls. Some of you are still in denial about that.
They have as good of a chance as any to get the 1st pick
I would be willing to bet a lot, if betting were allowed, that the Giants don’t get the first pick.
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In comment 15006996 joeinpa said:
Quote:
I ve seen two other great Giants quarterbacks suffer similar beginnings to their careers. I still feel confident Jones can be something special.
Serious question - based on what exactly with Jones to date? Where have you seen the "special" that convinces you more may be on the way...?
I base my opinion on his athletic ability. I believe he has arm talent, he is smart and has made plays over the past two years that have me convinced he can be special.
He has lost confidence and is playing tentatively at the moment. I expected him to slide some this season. But I also expect the light to come in the near future and when it does he can be special
I don't see a lack of confidence. I see a lack of a step forward as of yet. He is a good athlete and likely a good QB. But, I am not convinced he can be a great QB, especially not all on his own.
Yup. Despite fans getting mocked for thinking they won’t pick 1st, the fact is it is incredibly difficult to pick #1. A lot of bad luck needs to happen. The Giants are in their worst stretch of football (12-41 since 2017), how many times have the Giants picked #1 in that time frame?
My point is this - if things are so bad that we are picking 1, how could you keep Jones? Especially to keep Jones over what is widely considered the best QB since Luck? Keeping Jones under that scenario would be reckless.
They were talking about Gase today and a caller had a funny one “don’t sever for Trevor”. I laughed and then I doubly laughed when Bro was like I know but he makes me sick looking at him on the sideline. As bad as the Giants are and have been I couldn’t imagine what it’s like to be a Jets fan at this point.
Quote:
We'll of course beat Washington twice because that's what we do &-if Bro/Evan are to believed-the Jets will probably go 0-16.
They were talking about Gase today and a caller had a funny one “don’t sever for Trevor”. I laughed and then I doubly laughed when Bro was like I know but he makes me sick looking at him on the sideline. As bad as the Giants are and have been I couldn’t imagine what it’s like to be a Jets fan at this point.
In that scenario, they need to take Penei Sewell and move Thomas to the right side. There’s no reason Jones couldn’t at least replicate what Tannehill is doing given a good o-line and some running game.
This really is it in a nutshell. If the giants are anywhere near the first pick it more than likely means DG is outta here. If he’s outta here. It all but guarantees that jones didn’t show that much here in 2020. And if that is where we’re at, the new GM is likely to go qb l. Especially if the qbs are as good as most believe.
But we aren’t there yet. Not even 1/3 of the way through the season. Can we wait.
How in the world is this team going 6-5 the rest of the way?
Frankly, if the Giants pick first, I’d rather see them trade down and invest in some stud players—really TOP players—at the lines. Build an actual team from the bottom up instead of drafting hotshot skill players. If they can do that, every single other player on the roster improves. *Then* we can assess Jones.
Don’t assume that Lawrence will fare much better on our crappy team.
It has nothing to do with "moving on from Jones" but rather getting a potential superstar QB.
IMO the difference between TL and DJ is the super QB in Lawrence is right now quite a bit better than Jones. As a result, the team probably has 2 wins and maybe 3. Along with possibly you wouldn't have seen that crucial blunder DJ made vs San Fran at the end of the half that changed the momentum/flow of the game if that were Lawrence instead.
But, there is a lot of season left. The Giants have lost 3 games by one score or less. The Jets on the other hand have not been competitive.
I believe the Jets are more likely to land #1 overall.
That said, if the Giants are in position to take Justin Fields/Trey Lance, they should definitely consider if Jones doesn't show signs of improvement down the stretch.
Lots of money available with a rookie qb contract. Very valuable years for a team. If you can purchase that, it’s worth considering on its own.
LOL, that means we'll finish the season 6-5, which is not happening. We have left the Washington Football Team and Eagles twice, the Bucs, Bengals, Seahawks, Cardinals, Browns, Ravens, and Cowboys.
I think we'll split with Washington but it wouldn't suprise me if we lost both, we'll lose to the Eagles at least once, and I believe ALL the other teams beat us easily, yes, even the Dalton-led Cowboys, and even the Bengals.
Sure, we could steal a win from the Bengals, but I don't think this team will win more than 4 games. That's still pretty good with 11 games left, and probably too good to get the first pick. But I think 2-14 is more likely, and that has a good chance to be good enough to get the first pick. It should be noted, however, that the Jets' remaining schedule is probably more difficult than ours.
The Jets have: Patriots twice, the Dolphins twice, then the Bills, Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders, Seahawks, Rams, and Browns.
They will have to surprise some people, because there aren't playing any bad teams on that schedule except the Dolphins, who played very well on Sunday in blowing out the 49ers.
The excitement he brought to the game when first playing is still there but covered by clouds of 2020 and all that came with it, no preseason, new system etc.
If we were to get the first pick trade down as we still have many other holes.
If we let Jones go and he blossomed say on DallASS, or the Bird, Pats etc. OMG ....
You cannot keep reaching we need a better front office.
The absolute dumbest thing you can possibly do is pass on an elite prospect because of a 'maybe', whose early returns are mixed and really not what you'd hope to be at this point.
You don't pass on Michael Jordan because you already have Danny Ainge. You just don't do that.
You think we're going over .500 for the rest of the year? Not based on anything they've showed so far.
If somehow the Giants land the 1st overall pick, then yes of course.
But they won't. We will be discussing LBs, ERs, and WRs come April 2021.
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i'm thinking we finish 6-10. There's no way on earth that's good enough for the #1 pick.
LOL, that means we'll finish the season 6-5, which is not happening. We have left the Washington Football Team and Eagles twice, the Bucs, Bengals, Seahawks, Cardinals, Browns, Ravens, and Cowboys.
I think we'll split with Washington but it wouldn't suprise me if we lost both, we'll lose to the Eagles at least once, and I believe ALL the other teams beat us easily, yes, even the Dalton-led Cowboys, and even the Bengals.
Sure, we could steal a win from the Bengals, but I don't think this team will win more than 4 games. That's still pretty good with 11 games left, and probably too good to get the first pick. But I think 2-14 is more likely, and that has a good chance to be good enough to get the first pick. It should be noted, however, that the Jets' remaining schedule is probably more difficult than ours.
The Jets have: Patriots twice, the Dolphins twice, then the Bills, Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders, Seahawks, Rams, and Browns.
They will have to surprise some people, because there aren't playing any bad teams on that schedule except the Dolphins, who played very well on Sunday in blowing out the 49ers.
me too I think it's 2 wins. I don't know how anybody sees 6 wins.
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You watched Miami and something was off with him? Clemson played the #7 team in the country and went 29-42 for 292 yards with 3 td passes and 0 int. On the season he is 84-116 for 1140 yards with 10 TD passes in 4 games and 0 int's. He also has 4 rushing td's. And his stat line would probably be even better but he has the best RB in the country, Travis Etienne.
If that indicates something "off", I want some of that. Wow. No one is a sure bet to succeed in the NFL but he is so much better than any other prospect it is ridiculous.
I get the stats. They should be exceptional with the talent base Lawrence plays with. That doesn't mean Lawrence may not be throwing with the same velocity as years prior. And that maybe his footwork has slipped...
Look, he's the top prospect. But I think further scrutiny is always wise.
It's an odd season with COVID and all.
Some of these technical issues maybe lack of time for proper coaching and practice. Not sure how much I would read into minor issues this year.
And before somebody screams that I am giving the benefit of the doubt to TL, and not to DJ because of the COVID crap... TL is still playing at a high level, and he has earned the benefit of the doubt. DJ isn't, and hasn't.
Not suggesting there is a better prospect as of yet or that it’s not unreasonable for him to have “lesser” games vs better competition. But that really needs to be the measuring stick if Giants have to throw him to the wolves with our crappy roster.
No?
Not suggesting there is a better prospect as of yet or that it’s not unreasonable for him to have “lesser” games vs better competition. But that really needs to be the measuring stick if Giants have to throw him to the wolves with our crappy roster.
No?
I don't agree. I thought he was darn good vs Ohio State. Similar to Eli vs San Fran. Showed incredible toughness. Passed for 259 and ran for 106 vs an extremely tough defense-- I think he showed extreme metal. Because of this game and the Alabama game - he is someone you got to choose if you have the chance.