Assuming nothing drastic happens and Jones is still on the team in 2021, the Giants should at least sign a veteran not to be a caddy like Colt McCoy, but to actually compete for the job.
What do we know about Judge as a coach so far? Strong game management, strong special teams. It seems to me that that lends itself to wanting a QB that above all else will take care of the football. We know Jones doesn't do that.
If we assume that the Giants don't draft a QB high in the 2021 draft, what veterans can they target to compete for the job and do something that aligns with what Judge is trying to achieve? Looking at Spotrac, three vets jump out that are scheduled to be free agents in 2021:
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Jacoby Brissett
Age on opening day 2021: 28
Starts to date: 32
NY/A: 5.58
TD%/INT%: 3.2/1.3
Fumbles/Start: .56
Tyrod Taylor
Age on opening day 2021: 32
Starts to date: 47
NY/A: 5.86
TD%/INT%: 3.9/1.4
Fumbles/Start: .43
Nick Mullens
Age on opening day 2021: 26
Starts to date: 10
NY/A: 7.27
TD%/INT%: 4.3/3.7
Fumbles/Start: .5
For comparison, here are Jones's numbers:
Daniel Jones
Age on opening day 2021: 24
Starts to date: 17
NY/A: 5.39
TD%/INT%: 4.1/2.7
Fumbles/start: 1.29
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The biggest number that should jump out is the fumbles/start. Jones's number is more than double Brissett and Mullens, and triple Taylor's.
Brissett and Taylor clearly aren't big playmakers, but they don't turn the ball over...you aren't going to win any titles with them but they can do a job for you. They can not lose the game and let the special teams, defense, and Judge's game management provide the edge over the opponent. Over the course of a season that can be worth some wins...not a Super Bowl-winning strategy but let's learn to walk before we run.
I included Mullens because while he isn't as safe with the ball as Brissett or Taylor, he does provide increased playmaking ability as evidenced by the TD% and the NY/A.
Daniel Jones has two big problems:
#1 He isn't careful with the ball.
#2 He doesn't make enough plays to overlook #1.
These three free agents don't necessarily give you the best of both worlds, but they all provide a better ratio of #1 and #2 than Jones does. Keep these guys in mind if Jones fails to make a significant improvement in these last 11 games. Barring some major changes, veteran competition should be brought in as a minimum measure.
Remember two things as these weeks pass:
1. Judge looks like a good enough game coach to win some games he shouldn't if his quarterback doesn't lose them for him. With even decent game manager quarterback play the Giants could have won against Chicago, LA, and Dallas.
2. Judge didn't draft Jones. He's not tied to him the way Gettleman/Mara are. If you don't think that matters take a look at what's happening in DC - Rivera has already essentially rid himself of Haskins, who Dan Snyder himself hand picked. How patient will Judge be if Jones continues to ruin games with turnovers and an inability to make plays?
Why we feel the need around here to tell the future when we don't have to ill never know.
Those three guys are backups. One a third stringer. Jones was the #6 pick in the draft. If alarm bells aren't ringing for you, you aren't paying attention.
1. Eli came into a much more difficult NFL for QB’s. The game was not geared towards rookie QB’s at that time.
2. Despite Eli’s early struggles, the flashes were there. Including game winning drives. Jones is now 0-3 with a chance to go ahead late this year in addition to the fumbles.
3. Eli was widely regarded as the #1 pick in 2004, Jones was not close to that in 2019. He was a polarizing prospect, but it seems the Giants were on an island for the #6 pick for Jones.
Lastly, isn’t the goal to win? I’m rooting for Jones, I hope he plays lights out and this team manages to win the division. However, holding onto a QB too long can really set us back even further.
As a result, even if the Giants have the first pick (and they won't, the Jets will), I don't see them taking a QB. I think there will be significant pressure from ownership to trade down in the first round. It would be very on brand for ownership to want to "shake things up" by trying something "new" and trading down.
I'll believe it when I see it. This organization is stuck in the mud.
That train has left. Jones is here, and if you think Jawn is going to give up on that pick, spend another top 10 pick on a qb and go hire some vet, you are crazy. No one gives a shit what Judge thinks. He's lucky to have a job and if the team doesn't win a few games, he'll be lucky to keep it. Jones is the qb and Judge and Garrett better think of an offense to minimize his gaffes and utilize what there is of his talents. They aren't getting anyone else.
That is just the thing they didn't appraise the talent correctly. I think it was obvious they miscalculated how bad this defense was when they went 0-2 last year. After that it was like "well let's turn this into a develop the QB year" even though the offense played well under Eli.
Those three guys are backups. One a third stringer. Jones was the #6 pick in the draft. If alarm bells aren't ringing for you, you aren't paying attention.
I never liked Brissett--he's OK but his ceiling is just that, OK. To be fair I never liked Bridgewater and he's playing well for Carolina.
This season needs to play out first. We are literally smack in the early to mid stages of a young QB's development and let's be honest, throw bias and preconceived notions aside for a second, it's very early to be forming a conclusive opinion on Jones, and this coming from someone who is admittedly concerned with his play. If it wasn't a new staff I wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but it is a new staff and the offense is not exactly taylor made right now. I need to see more. We all do. Jones could rip off a good month of play and we will all be changing our tune. Or he could play like this all year. Let me see it first.
Why we feel the need around here to tell the future when we don't have to ill never know.
only week 5? This was over week 2!
Just like last year. Another season in the books while it was still technically Summer!
People like you are going to say " but it is only his 3rd year". Before Eli won the Superbowl in his 3 rd year everyone wanted him benched too."
Lawrence was always going to be out of the equation. We were either going to take a QB in 2019 or 2020. So the argument is Jones vs Herbert or Tua.
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it is only week 5!
Why we feel the need around here to tell the future when we don't have to ill never know.
only week 5? This was over week 2!
Just like last year. Another season in the books while it was still technically Summer!
People like you are going to say " but it is only his 3rd year". Before Eli won the Superbowl in his 3 rd year everyone wanted him benched too."
Eli won in year 4
Quote:
it is only week 5!
Why we feel the need around here to tell the future when we don't have to ill never know.
only week 5? This was over week 2!
Just like last year. Another season in the books while it was still technically Summer!
People like you are going to say " but it is only his 3rd year". Before Eli won the Superbowl in his 3 rd year everyone wanted him benched too."
Um, OK. I don't know what point you're trying to make. And it's funny you bring up Eli. The same Eli who was generated threads around here that he would never win shit, in that year 3, and then he did. Apples and oranges maybe, but is it really? Eli was not good enough until he was. Get it?
I mean, just last night, Herbert started off great, had some bad throws, and then the Chargers lost the game. He had good stats, but they lost. It's the same argument for Jones last year where he played well in some games but we still ended up losing (Jets, Lions). Jones also showed some incredible ability in some games (Tampa, Wash), but again, this seems to be ignored.
Lawrence was always going to be out of the equation. We were either going to take a QB in 2019 or 2020. So the argument is Jones vs Herbert or Tua.
I honestly thought this was exactly what the Giants would do. I still think Eli was a fine caretaker here and would not have stunted anything. Giants should have just loaded on up BPAs and taken the QB when the team was staged and ready to go, but they must have really loved Jones. They better have because there's nothing more damaging to a franchise than forcing the QB pick. It is what it is now. Hope Jones gets hot.
I mean, just last night, Herbert started off great, had some bad throws, and then the Chargers lost the game. He had good stats, but they lost. It's the same argument for Jones last year where he played well in some games but we still ended up losing (Jets, Lions). Jones also showed some incredible ability in some games (Tampa, Wash), but again, this seems to be ignored.
Yep funny how that works. And I think a lot of fans are convinced that HErbert can only go up from here. We all know that can be a flawed assumption. We've seen dozens of QBs regress. And if SD has another bad year the HC might be shit canned and then guess who is learning a new system all over again.
Most QBs need to be nurtured and well insulated. Some don't but most do. And some still learn or progress at different levels. Some are dealing with more shit than others. Dak Prescott came in to a well oiled offense but he still took the bull by the horns and played at a very high level. Not all QBs are Prescott but that doesn't mean Dak is some special dying breed. It's not an exact science. That's why we all see NFL lifers who succeed with one QB in one decade fail miserably in the next decade. It's a brutally tough position to scout and judge.
So to me, it's, would the Giants be better if we took 2 good players there instead of QB and 1 player. Plenty of people think we would be better off today had we made that choice.
That being said, if we do that, and then Eli plays the whole year and we win let's say...6 or 7 games, we then miss out on QB again and then maybe have to trade up etc...ya never know. if Jones end up being very good, then it didn't matter. Remains to be seen, as most QB picks are at first.
So to me, it's, would the Giants be better if we took 2 good players there instead of QB and 1 player. Plenty of people think we would be better off today had we made that choice.
That being said, if we do that, and then Eli plays the whole year and we win let's say...6 or 7 games, we then miss out on QB again and then maybe have to trade up etc...ya never know. if Jones end up being very good, then it didn't matter. Remains to be seen, as most QB picks are at first.
Sometimes I do wonder if the Giants are more reactionary than we want to believe. 2018 it was all about how Eli isn't the problem, and I don't think he was, but one year later they couldn't wait to draft someone and bench Eli. One year that much changed? Eli didn't even look any different from 18-19 in my opinion. He just looked ordinary or a guy that doesn't completely suck but doesn't move the needle.
Giants are weird. No other way around it. They out think themselves at every turn and I do wonder if they sort of succumbed to the pressure of both going all in on Eli and then going all out. I wish I had more faith in them but they don't warrant any lately.
This is an aggravating attitude. That evidence is mounting by the week. Where is the evidence that he CAN be better than them?
Look at the numbers above. People are critical of Taylor, Brissett, and Mullens, and that's completely reasonable. Yet the evidence to this point is that they are better players than Jones. And that's without factoring in draft status. They are straight up better players.
Saying Jones will improve isn't founded in anything real. Wishing for things to happen isn't a way to run a team; though it's clearly what the front office did when they didn't bring in competition for Jones after a poor rookie season.
QB competition is important though, and DJ better be feeling pressure that his career could take a pretty damn big negative pivot without stronger play on his part. Everybody should.
The best evidence is probably that the offense as a whole sucks and the play calling is from the 1990s. Jones has the highest pressure % of any QB in the NFL since he became a starter. The Giants are a bottom 5 team in pre-snap motion rate, the WRs are among the lowest in the league in separation, and the Giants are running play action at one of the lowest rates in the league (side note, the execution of play action on Sunday was terrible). Elite QBs would be able to overcome these issues. Jones isn't an elite QB right now.
If Jones was put in an offense that played to his strengths and protected him better, I don't think we'd be having the same discussion right now. My guess is that in the right system, Jones has the ability to be an above average NFL starter. That's not great, but not terrible. It's not someone who I'd give a second contract, but it's someone who can win in the right situation.
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In comment 15007577 djm said:
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it is only week 5!
Why we feel the need around here to tell the future when we don't have to ill never know.
only week 5? This was over week 2!
Just like last year. Another season in the books while it was still technically Summer!
People like you are going to say " but it is only his 3rd year". Before Eli won the Superbowl in his 3 rd year everyone wanted him benched too."
Um, OK. I don't know what point you're trying to make. And it's funny you bring up Eli. The same Eli who was generated threads around here that he would never win shit, in that year 3, and then he did. Apples and oranges maybe, but is it really? Eli was not good enough until he was. Get it?
Bullshit! You already saw Eli what we needed to see. Heck I had a clip of his first game. He was already a good deep passer; gun slinger; throw too many pics but also threw 40 yards bombs. He was already showing glimmers of the come back kid. Jones is what Jones is. A game manager who never makes plays to win games just turns the ball over to lose games.
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In comment 15007603 Black_Flag said:
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In comment 15007577 djm said:
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it is only week 5!
Why we feel the need around here to tell the future when we don't have to ill never know.
only week 5? This was over week 2!
Just like last year. Another season in the books while it was still technically Summer!
People like you are going to say " but it is only his 3rd year". Before Eli won the Superbowl in his 3 rd year everyone wanted him benched too."
Um, OK. I don't know what point you're trying to make. And it's funny you bring up Eli. The same Eli who was generated threads around here that he would never win shit, in that year 3, and then he did. Apples and oranges maybe, but is it really? Eli was not good enough until he was. Get it?
Bullshit! You already saw Eli what we needed to see. Heck I had a clip of his first game. He was already a good deep passer; gun slinger; throw too many pics but also threw 40 yards bombs. He was already showing glimmers of the come back kid. Jones is what Jones is. A game manager who never makes plays to win games just turns the ball over to lose games.
Also I would not trust what average, entitled blowhard fan thinks. They want a QB to be just like the "right here, right now" attitude they have in normal life.
That is not the same as looking at Eli and Jones. Eli might have had bad games but there was never any doubt in my mind.
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In comment 15007603 Black_Flag said:
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In comment 15007577 djm said:
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it is only week 5!
Why we feel the need around here to tell the future when we don't have to ill never know.
only week 5? This was over week 2!
Just like last year. Another season in the books while it was still technically Summer!
People like you are going to say " but it is only his 3rd year". Before Eli won the Superbowl in his 3 rd year everyone wanted him benched too."
Um, OK. I don't know what point you're trying to make. And it's funny you bring up Eli. The same Eli who was generated threads around here that he would never win shit, in that year 3, and then he did. Apples and oranges maybe, but is it really? Eli was not good enough until he was. Get it?
Bullshit! You already saw Eli what we needed to see. Heck I had a clip of his first game. He was already a good deep passer; gun slinger; throw too many pics but also threw 40 yards bombs. He was already showing glimmers of the come back kid. Jones is what Jones is. A game manager who never makes plays to win games just turns the ball over to lose games.
Never? that is a lie..
And stop with the rewriting of history, during his first 4 years every year there was talk of benching eli..
Going into his 4th year people wanted him and coughlin gone, Eli was a turnover machine.
I mean, just last night, Herbert started off great, had some bad throws, and then the Chargers lost the game. He had good stats, but they lost. It's the same argument for Jones last year where he played well in some games but we still ended up losing (Jets, Lions). Jones also showed some incredible ability in some games (Tampa, Wash), but again, this seems to be ignored.
Jones has played, what, 17-18 games? How many good/great games? 4? And they were all last year. Against the likes of Washington, Tampa, Detroit, NYJ. The Bucs and Detroit were two of the worst pass defenses in the league. Basically every QB lit them up. And the Jets and WFT were in the bottom half of the league. On average, three of those teams gave up 27+ppg, all near the bottom of the league.
He gets the credit - of course. But there are now too many games where Jones doesn't look like a franchise QB. He looks like he just needs to much infrastructure to succeed.
I agree he gets the rest of the season to audition. But if this trend keeps up, it would be hard to keep him as the starting QB even if we don't have a top three pick. And we had better expand Terp's thesis here to find a replacement starter, not just a competitive back-up.
My guess is we win too many games to get the #1 pick, which would eliminate Lawrence. The more likely question is whether we replace Jones with another QB (Fields?). We obviously can't answer that question yet.
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In comment 15007609 djm said:
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In comment 15007603 Black_Flag said:
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In comment 15007577 djm said:
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it is only week 5!
Why we feel the need around here to tell the future when we don't have to ill never know.
only week 5? This was over week 2!
Just like last year. Another season in the books while it was still technically Summer!
People like you are going to say " but it is only his 3rd year". Before Eli won the Superbowl in his 3 rd year everyone wanted him benched too."
Um, OK. I don't know what point you're trying to make. And it's funny you bring up Eli. The same Eli who was generated threads around here that he would never win shit, in that year 3, and then he did. Apples and oranges maybe, but is it really? Eli was not good enough until he was. Get it?
Bullshit! You already saw Eli what we needed to see. Heck I had a clip of his first game. He was already a good deep passer; gun slinger; throw too many pics but also threw 40 yards bombs. He was already showing glimmers of the come back kid. Jones is what Jones is. A game manager who never makes plays to win games just turns the ball over to lose games.
Never? that is a lie..
And stop with the rewriting of history, during his first 4 years every year there was talk of benching eli..
Going into his 4th year people wanted him and coughlin gone, Eli was a turnover machine.
I was talking about myself. Quite frankly I don't give a rat's ass about what the average fan who is basing a decision more on emotion than anything else and thinks winning football and the competition is the same as some of the easy middle class things they do in life. NFL is a little more competitive ;)
It's the same argument for Jones last year where he played well in some games but we still ended up losing (Jets, Lions). Jones also showed some incredible ability in some games (Tampa, Wash), but again, this seems to be ignored.
They aren't ignored, they are weighed against his other performances. Fifty percent of Jones's 26 career TD passes came in 3 games. He's had a turnover in all but one of his career games.
Herbert has played 4 games, his lowest yards/attempt is 6.7. That's higher than all but 7 of Jones's 17 starts.
None of us know what kind of career Herbert is going to have, but the same is true for Jones. Just because you want to project that his career will more closely resemble a small sample of good performances than a larger sample of mediocre/bad ones doesn't make it so.
Like you, I hope Jones is the guy, but there is mounting evidence to suggest that won't be the case.
Well look at it another way--what makes you think Jones can get better?
I think they were excited he could run the rpo but I have not seen them run it much. His arm strength is whatever. He really doesn't run and throw good. His clutch factor is nothing good right now.
Can these things get better sure. But that would have been great is he was a 3rd round pick and we spent higher draft choices on other talent but NO--we took Jones to elevate this shitshow not the other way around.
The idea that he's throwing short due to a skillset limitation isn't really valid.
Jones future in NY hinges on DG's future in NY. If a new GM comes in and evaluates DJ's film and decides not to hitch his wagon to DJ (a likely situation given his pre-draft status) - I think he's gone.
The precedent for moving on from highly rated QBs has been set ie Josh Rosen. I think Washington moves on from Haskins too.
I do think that DJ has a chance to be a Ryan Tannehill type QB though. A QB that can take a team with better pieces that have been held back by sub-par QB play.
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if you're someone who thinks Tua and Herbert are both going to have way better careers than Jones, then of course you're pissed right now. But that completely remains to be seen, there's no evidence to suggest that Jones can't be better than the 2 of them, and in fact he has shown a good amount early in his career (just as Herbert has) that he can be the guy.
I mean, just last night, Herbert started off great, had some bad throws, and then the Chargers lost the game. He had good stats, but they lost. It's the same argument for Jones last year where he played well in some games but we still ended up losing (Jets, Lions). Jones also showed some incredible ability in some games (Tampa, Wash), but again, this seems to be ignored.
Jones has played, what, 17-18 games? How many good/great games? 4? And they were all last year. Against the likes of Washington, Tampa, Detroit, NYJ. The Bucs and Detroit were two of the worst pass defenses in the league. Basically every QB lit them up. And the Jets and WFT were in the bottom half of the league. On average, three of those teams gave up 27+ppg, all near the bottom of the league.
He gets the credit - of course. But there are now too many games where Jones doesn't look like a franchise QB. He looks like he just needs to much infrastructure to succeed.
I agree he gets the rest of the season to audition. But if this trend keeps up, it would be hard to keep him as the starting QB even if we don't have a top three pick. And we had better expand Terp's thesis here to find a replacement starter, not just a competitive back-up.
Major difference between “too much infrastructure” and the bare minimum for a professional team expecting to compete. The Chargers almost ran for as many yards in the first half as the Giants average per game this season. Would you rather have Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, and Hunter Henry or whatever the Giants have? Read Sy’s review... both OTs sucked. How about “league average infrastructure”? Aside from Russell Wilson, which QB has elevated scrubs over the past few year? Carson Wentz lifted scrubs for a few weeks last year, keeping in mind they only beat NFC East teams with the scrubs. I don’t understand this thought that there’s this group of QBs elevating bums.
BTW, true busts like Josh Rosen don’t play well against anyone.
I'm not saying he can't get better. Shit theoretically he could become better than Patrick Mahomes. I'm not interested in what COULD be in a best case scenario. I'm interested in what IS.
And right now Daniel Jones is playing worse than the standard set by the three backups I listed, and we're not seeing any signs of improvement. I don't have any reason to believe he'll get better other than hope. I know that's basically standard operating procedure for the Giants, but in the real world that isn't good enough.
The idea that he's throwing short due to a skillset limitation isn't really valid.
Completing more passes, even short ones, would also boost his Y/A. There's nothing wrong with taking underneath stuff if that's what's there, but you need to complete more than 61% of your passes. If you're 27th in completion percentage and 30th in yards per attempt, you're not going to move the ball.
Russell Wilson was excellent right away. 7.9 YPA, 26/10 as a rookie. 11-5 record.
Does that sound like anything Jones did as a rookie? If Jones had that kind of year would this thread even exist?
Somewhat. Don't downplay that in his rookie year Wilson accumulated 11 wins for a team that only won 7 the year before. He also had 4 game winning drives, 3 fourth qtr comebacks and made the Pro Bowl.
He elevated that team as much as anyone, and still does.
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get the scrutiny on YPA as it pertains to Jones. It is more of a function of the offense and what's available. Unless we are advocating that we should make a number of throws into the teeth of the Cover 2, he's taking the underneath stuff because the deep patterns are covered and his receivers have gotten little separation.
The idea that he's throwing short due to a skillset limitation isn't really valid.
Completing more passes, even short ones, would also boost his Y/A. There's nothing wrong with taking underneath stuff if that's what's there, but you need to complete more than 61% of your passes. If you're 27th in completion percentage and 30th in yards per attempt, you're not going to move the ball.
Understood. But he's taking dumpoffs or getting incompletions on medium routes, not because of his skill, but because of the lack of skill with the receivers and the defensive formation. He's not making terrible throws, he's been under pressure way too often.
Jones was the most pressured QB last season and he's second this season. Couple that with teams taking away the deep routes and the WR's not able to get separation - and you have what you have. Our WR's are last in the NFL in yards of separation.
YPA should not be used as a reflection on his skills.
He took a 4-12 Dallas team and as a rookie went 13-3 the next year.
Understood. But he's taking dumpoffs or getting incompletions on medium routes, not because of his skill, but because of the lack of skill with the receivers and the defensive formation. He's not making terrible throws, he's been under pressure way too often.
Jones was the most pressured QB last season and he's second this season. Couple that with teams taking away the deep routes and the WR's not able to get separation - and you have what you have. Our WR's are last in the NFL in yards of separation.
YPA should not be used as a reflection on his skills.
You're entitled to make whatever argument or excuses you like, but the numbers are what they are. Your objection to YPA is noted, but please don't assume I'm here to satisfy whatever criteria you have for what should and shouldn't be discussed.
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there's no evidence to suggest that Jones can't be better than the 2 of them
This is an aggravating attitude. That evidence is mounting by the week. Where is the evidence that he CAN be better than them?
Look at the numbers above. People are critical of Taylor, Brissett, and Mullens, and that's completely reasonable. Yet the evidence to this point is that they are better players than Jones. And that's without factoring in draft status. They are straight up better players.
Saying Jones will improve isn't founded in anything real. Wishing for things to happen isn't a way to run a team; though it's clearly what the front office did when they didn't bring in competition for Jones after a poor rookie season.
On what planet are those three so unequivocally better than Jones? Statistically, Jones had a much better season in his rookie season, on a terrible team with a horrific OL, than any of those three have ever had in their entire careers. Taylor is about to find his way to the 5th team. Brissett was so incredible last season on a loaded team that the Colts decided to scrap the idea of starting him any longer and went out and signed the corpse of Philip Rivers. Mullens just got demoted to 3rd string behind C.J. Beathard...
It’s ok to say that you don’t believe Jones will ever be a Pro Bowl QB without getting flat out ridiculous.
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there's no evidence to suggest that Jones can't be better than the 2 of them
This is an aggravating attitude. That evidence is mounting by the week. Where is the evidence that he CAN be better than them?
Look at the numbers above. People are critical of Taylor, Brissett, and Mullens, and that's completely reasonable. Yet the evidence to this point is that they are better players than Jones. And that's without factoring in draft status. They are straight up better players.
Saying Jones will improve isn't founded in anything real. Wishing for things to happen isn't a way to run a team; though it's clearly what the front office did when they didn't bring in competition for Jones after a poor rookie season.
On what planet are those three so unequivocally better than Jones? Statistically, Jones had a much better season in his rookie season, on a terrible team with a horrific OL, than any of those three have ever had in their entire careers. Taylor is about to find his way to the 5th team. Brissett was so incredible last season on a loaded team that the Colts decided to scrap the idea of starting him any longer and went out and signed the corpse of Philip Rivers. Mullens just got demoted to 3rd string behind C.J. Beathard...
It’s ok to say that you don’t believe Jones will ever be a Pro Bowl QB without getting flat out ridiculous.
The numbers say otherwise. The only thing Jones has over those three guys is draft status. It's the only reason he's a starter.
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into a player who elevated scrubs. He didn’t have to carry the scrubs right away. He was on team that ran the ball great and played great defense.
Russell Wilson was excellent right away. 7.9 YPA, 26/10 as a rookie. 11-5 record.
Does that sound like anything Jones did as a rookie? If Jones had that kind of year would this thread even exist?
According to footballoutsiders.com, Seattle had the 5th ranked defense and Marshawn Lynch was the 2nd ranked RB Russell’s rookie season. Wilson was 26th in passing attempts his rookie season. He threw the 22nd most passes his second season. BTW, Seattle had the 1st overall defense in Wilson’s second season.
Daniel Jones will never be as good as Russell Wilson. But he doesn’t need to be. Part of becoming a good player is being in a good situation. Eli was. So was Russell Wilson. Josh Allen is in one now. Daniel Jones’ situation is an abomination and I don’t understand how people think that shouldn’t adversely affect him.
is this more of the he "looks good in preseason" BS?
It is obvious yes playing against crappy teams Jones can make some pretty passes.
In garbage time down 2-3 scores -- Jones can make some passes.
It should be obvious that shit is like batting practice but when the bullets start flying or with like a game on the line -- it is not the same thing?
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In comment 15007704 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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into a player who elevated scrubs. He didn’t have to carry the scrubs right away. He was on team that ran the ball great and played great defense.
Russell Wilson was excellent right away. 7.9 YPA, 26/10 as a rookie. 11-5 record.
Does that sound like anything Jones did as a rookie? If Jones had that kind of year would this thread even exist?
According to footballoutsiders.com, Seattle had the 5th ranked defense and Marshawn Lynch was the 2nd ranked RB Russell’s rookie season. Wilson was 26th in passing attempts his rookie season. He threw the 22nd most passes his second season. BTW, Seattle had the 1st overall defense in Wilson’s second season.
Daniel Jones will never be as good as Russell Wilson. But he doesn’t need to be. Part of becoming a good player is being in a good situation. Eli was. So was Russell Wilson. Josh Allen is in one now. Daniel Jones’ situation is an abomination and I don’t understand how people think that shouldn’t adversely affect him.
Eli was in a good situation?
When were the Giants ever favored in any playoff game? Where were the pro bowlers when they won big games after 2006?
Was the Giants roster better ? Yes I will give you that I guess.
The fact is I see nothing in Jones that merits this high a pick in the draft or anyone that can win anything without considerable talent around him. Which you should not expect given that we wasted such a high pick on him
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In comment 15007704 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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into a player who elevated scrubs. He didn’t have to carry the scrubs right away. He was on team that ran the ball great and played great defense.
Russell Wilson was excellent right away. 7.9 YPA, 26/10 as a rookie. 11-5 record.
Does that sound like anything Jones did as a rookie? If Jones had that kind of year would this thread even exist?
According to footballoutsiders.com, Seattle had the 5th ranked defense and Marshawn Lynch was the 2nd ranked RB Russell’s rookie season. Wilson was 26th in passing attempts his rookie season. He threw the 22nd most passes his second season. BTW, Seattle had the 1st overall defense in Wilson’s second season.
Daniel Jones will never be as good as Russell Wilson. But he doesn’t need to be. Part of becoming a good player is being in a good situation. Eli was. So was Russell Wilson. Josh Allen is in one now. Daniel Jones’ situation is an abomination and I don’t understand how people think that shouldn’t adversely affect him.
You are now shifting your argument. Wilson (and now Allen) clearly showed very early on that they lift their respective Offenses up with their play. That is the job assignment for a QB.
We are looking for signs of this from DJ, but really aside from the comeback in his very first game against Tampa, it has not been seen much, if at all.