We had shown ourselves to be solid against the run in almost all our games. The Cowboys were starting 2 tackles who I believe were UDFA one a rookie and one a 2 year player. This was either the first or second game either player. They were also starting a rookie 5th round choice at center.
Yet with all the momentum on our side at 17-3 they pushed us all over the field. The whole DL and Martinez were invisible. And this went on for most of the game. What the heck was that. How could that possibly happen. And don’t tell me it was all Zeke. He had room to run. Pollard gashed us as well.
Anyone have a clue what happened.
Also, in their 3-4 base they have 1 consistent LB. Martinez can't stop every play. Downs is very bad and Golden is not a run stopper on the outside. Now that Carter is gone its going to get worse.
Also, in their 3-4 base they have 1 consistent LB. Martinez can't stop every play. Downs is very bad and Golden is not a run stopper on the outside. Now that Carter is gone its going to get worse.
Downs played 2 defensive snaps. He's been replaced by Crowder at ILB.
But as a general observation addressing yours (and everyone else's) frustration about NOT stopping the run when it was assumed we could -- this is precisely how losing teams lose. One game, a certain unit plays well, and another falls flat on its face. And, then, the next game the roles are reversed. And so on ad nauseam.
That's the true hallmark of a losing team.
The glowing reports about Williams and Lawrence are way over blown. They're legit starters but nothing special. When the score was 17-3 Dallas ran the ball right down their throats. Right at Lawrence and Williams.
-As stout as this defensive line can be at times, I was disappointed with their performance against a beat up DAL offensive line. Dexter Lawrence and Leonard Williams both lacked difference-making plays and came up short in key situations. Neither got any pressure on the passer either.
The glowing reports about Williams and Lawrence are way over blown. They're legit starters but nothing special. When the score was 17-3 Dallas ran the ball right down their throats. Right at Lawrence and Williams.
That's false. When the score was 17-3, their big runs came on the edge. They ran right at Golden. And on two of the interior runs that went for 8 yards, Lawrence was on the sidelines.
The Cowboys had 29 rushes for 126 yards. They had 12 rushes outside the tackles for 94 yards. That means their interior runs averaged less than less than 2 YPC.
Sy said Tomlinson had a really good game.
This team is so bad that opponents play us like a preseason opponent where they work on their basics (the Rams threw two successive screen passes against us inside the 20-when was the last time you saw that) try not to make any mistakes and wait for us to fuck up. Some around here interpreted that as progress by the D.
this is why the Giants never win. they dint have a strong aspect to their team. When they need the offense to score, they cant. when they need the run D to step up, they dont. when they need to stop a key 3rd down pass - not a chance.
the Giants may be reasonably solid in certain areas (hey we’re awesome at stuffing INTERIOR runs when there’s a full moon and we put 3 DTs on the field!). but they are not legitimately great at anything except arguably special teams right now.
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hit the nail on the head. Pun intended.
The glowing reports about Williams and Lawrence are way over blown. They're legit starters but nothing special. When the score was 17-3 Dallas ran the ball right down their throats. Right at Lawrence and Williams.
That's false. When the score was 17-3, their big runs came on the edge. They ran right at Golden. And on two of the interior runs that went for 8 yards, Lawrence was on the sidelines.
The Cowboys had 29 rushes for 126 yards. They had 12 rushes outside the tackles for 94 yards. That means their interior runs averaged less than less than 2 YPC.
Exactly. So many times I saw Golden not holding the edge and they ran right around/by him. Horrible.
Your point is still valid. There is a glaring hole in run D on the edge. Golden is especially ineffective in the run game.
Giving up 120+ yards on the ground will often hurt, but most of the critical runs we've given up this season have been to the offense's right side. SF gashed us on outside runs. Pittsburgh was getting yards to the left on outside runs.
We absolutely should have drafted Tyler Biadasz in the 4th. Okay, I admit Darnay Holmes, who we did take, is looking promising, but Biadasz is one of Dave's much vaunted hogmollies and we passed on him.
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Nice analysis. That makes some sense. Watching I though they, especially Zeke, did well in the middle but I guess it was mostly outside.
Your point is still valid. There is a glaring hole in run D on the edge. Golden is especially ineffective in the run game.
Giving up 120+ yards on the ground will often hurt, but most of the critical runs we've given up this season have been to the offense's right side. SF gashed us on outside runs. Pittsburgh was getting yards to the left on outside runs.
I still recall seeing Lawrence and Williams getting pushed back and Dallas (as well as the Rams) being able to run in the middle. I think Elliot is one of the best at hitting those holes in the middle hard and that helps, but as much as I like Lawrence and hoped Williams would only add strength, I don't believe they are as good as we make them to be. Maybe slightly above average? Having Martinez helps out and Crowder is better than downs but I feel like both he and Golden are to small/weak against the run. And somehow my mind keeps getting pulled to the fact that as much as DG wants to get us 'Hogmollies' he doesn't (or are scouts don't) know how to identify them.
What happened ? Carter got hurt and 44 went into the game . We went over this during the off -season when board participants were clamoring for Golden’s re-signing . I don’t know why they didn’t use another Big. Leonard has played DE in a 4-man front . Coughlin and Brown are obviously thought to not be viable options at this point . The Football Club is going to do the same thing on Sunday .
But another part to this was the failure of the Giants blue-blooded , Big 3. Regardless of what Focus has to say , I’m wondering when do these guys ever win out over the opponent’s OL? It should be the strength of the team.
What I know is when the Giants had great defensive linemen in years past , people and the ball tended to go backwards . Where the hell are those plays ?
Even the weekly reviews tend to give them more credit than deserved but I think that is because the write-up points out who is doing their job or not, moreso than who is meeting their expectations. And clearly this unit should have been the strongest on the team by far and one of the very best in the league.
Our linebackers and safeties needed to worry about legitimate receiving threats
Other teams really don’t have to worry about that when they are facing our offense
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The rookie center from Wisconsin is pretty good (as was noted by many in April) ... Tomlinson and Hill did not have good games. Martinez and Fackrell are our only 2 LBs ... and ... there was a fair amount of uncalled holding.
We absolutely should have drafted Tyler Biadasz in the 4th. Okay, I admit Darnay Holmes, who we did take, is looking promising, but Biadasz is one of Dave's much vaunted hogmollies and we passed on him.
Recall the Cowboys jumped up into the very end of Round 4 and selected Biadasz. Giants wound up picking Lemieux four picks later.
We'll see how the both do over time but an example of why rebuilding teams need to preserve or obtain extra draft picks versus deal them away.
The D has improved, and its improved a lot. Is it perfect, no. Is it a SB D, only with the Chiefs offense maybe. But lets not just bash away. We have to acknowledge the good with the bad.
Absolutely, our defense is light years ahead of where I thought they'd be in the offseason. My expectations were for the DL to be a stone wall and everything else to be questionable. I did NOT like Graham as the choice for DC and thought the Martinez and Bradberry pick ups were just ok. I was wrong on every point. I'm disappointed in Lawrence and Williams (I could be expecting too much from two first rounders). After 5 games I think Martinez and Bradberry are DG's best moves yet. And I'm really pleasantly surprised by Grahams Defense (part of it could be they finally have a decent 'defensive QB' in Martinez). He seems to adjust well and the majority of plays the players are in a good position. We just lack talent or physical ability in a couple of key spots.
The D has improved, and its improved a lot. Is it perfect, no. Is it a SB D, only with the Chiefs offense maybe. But lets not just bash away. We have to acknowledge the good with the bad.
According to the rules, or at least how they are applied, what is called holding against for instance Gates, is not a holding call when done by a lineman wearing a dallas jersey. Same old, same old.
What happened ? Carter got hurt and 44 went into the game . We went over this during the off -season when board participants were clamoring for Golden’s re-signing . I don’t know why they didn’t use another Big. Leonard has played DE in a 4-man front . Coughlin and Brown are obviously thought to not be viable options at this point . The Football Club is going to do the same thing on Sunday .
But another part to this was the failure of the Giants blue-blooded , Big 3. Regardless of what Focus has to say , I’m wondering when do these guys ever win out over the opponent’s OL? It should be the strength of the team.
What I know is when the Giants had great defensive linemen in years past , people and the ball tended to go backwards . Where the hell are those plays ?
As to our vaunted DL, exactly correct, they're not winning their battles very often. And, the LBs behind them are not playmakers either, except for Martinez, leaving the front seven as a whole rather mediocre.
Pass rush wise, Williams and Lawrence are almost always doubled. Can anyone else get to the QB in a 1 on 1 situation- brutal
- Threat of a pass. Cowboys have 3 excellent WR's. It is hard to focus on the run when these guys can take it 60 on every play. (See our WR's and our lack of running production for the inverse theorem)>
- Loss of Carter. I thought Golden was terrible. He continually gets washed away on runs to him and he doesn't keep edge responsibility and is prone to the quarterback rolls.
- Crowder. He didn't have a good game and it was probably not a good matchup for him this early in his career. On the heavier formations, a healthy Mayo would have been a better alternative. The next time we play the Cowboys, hopefully we have some healthy safeties and you will probably see a Peppers or McKinney in the box over Crowder.
Also, in their 3-4 base they have 1 consistent LB. Martinez can't stop every play. Downs is very bad and Golden is not a run stopper on the outside. Now that Carter is gone its going to get worse.
...and all those posts from people pointing at the Rams game as some great effort when the Rams where treating the game like a joint practice.
The Rams were just going through the motions and working on plays??
C'mon - I've seen a variation of that posted numerous times and it is one of the more idiotic takes possible.
I have a feeling we will lose to Washington. I just don't think we have enough on offense to be consistent. It isn't all Jones it is a team thing as in we lack talent.
It's been such a long time since we had a dominating LB group.
Doesn't this remind y'all of 2015?