For all the talk about getting rid of Gettleman, moving on from Jones to take Lawrence/Fields (if the Giants pick high enough) or signing someone else, what if Judge does indeed see in Jones someone he can with with? Would it not be more prudent to get a haul of picks and trade down if the Giants indeed have that high of a pick to take on of the aforementioned QB's?
I get the turnovers are alarming and they need to be corrected and addressed, but even Eli had his high turnover years. On the fumble side of things, I think he's cleaned that up a bit from last year to this year. Last year I seem to remember him having multiple fumbles even when getting attached from the front or his vision side. This year I believe most, if not all of the fumbles have occured from blindside hits, no? On the interception side, the pass near the endzone against Pitt was ill advised as as the one against the Rams at the end, correctible, but nothing we never saw Eli not do, especially in his first few years.
I'm not saying Jones will be another Eli or even have the same level of career success, the jury is still out in my opinion.
As I mentioned above, if Jones is indeed a guy that Judge wants and believes he can win with, I think we need to at least see what Jones can do next year with a full offseason, hopefully more weapons at WR, a more reliable TE and a more solidified OL in front of him. I believe most, if not all, are all in on Judge here and I don't believe he's one to throw words or glowing praises around (see him not naming any names in his first few pressers) and I don't think he would have uttered the "we wake up thanking God he's our QB" (or something to that affect) without having conviction on what Jones can do. Some can chalk that up to coach speak, but I think Judge would have chose a different phrasing on that if he didn't believe what he was saying.
Did you honestly expect him to say that Jones sucks and isn't the answer? You ever hear of coach speak? Maybe he is Judge's guy maybe he isn't, but you shouldn't put a single ounce of stock into that statement.
Is it Jones? Or is it the roster as it's constructed?
If we had a top 10-12 OL, and a top 15 WR corps, do you not think we'd have at least 2-3 wins right now?
As far as I see a game manager QB would've gotten us 2 wins already..
BINGO No QB will succeed with running for his life play in and play out.
Ad far as the Oline being fixed. We need a RT Tackle, That is the only player that is really messing up alot. The other holes in this line are at a different place all the time there is no 1 place that is where all the pressure is coming from. as this line plays more together and GELL they will be a lot better. This line has played 5 Games as a unit. I dont care who the coach is who the players are, and what team it is. When you have an Oline with pplayer that never played together this is what happens until they learn each others tendencies and weaknesses. They need to keep playing together and gaining trusty in each other and GEL as a Unit. Until that happens this is what is going to happen.
When the Giants had the #1 ranked Oline in the league, 2 seasons prior to that with the same players playing, they were ranked like 22 in the league. The need to learn to play together. Every team when they replace every olineman on their line at the same time go through this. So As far as myself goes I expected this from the line. It is the normal maturation process, and I have seen a huge improvemenT since week 1. We actually were able to open up hole this week against a pretty good front 7 and we ran the ball effectively. Next is the Pass Protection and that has improved some since week 1. Things are starting to come together. Just not fact enough for the instant Gratification People in this day and age
Forget CB, forget WR or any other skill position.
The Giants lack of edge rush kills them when they are trying to stop the opposing offense from scoring at end of game. It's a huge reason why they never win.
It wasn't long ago they couldn't even find snaps for Mathias Kiwanuka, who would easily be the #1 on this team. They need multiple studs, and they're hard to find. They can start by getting one early next year.
BUT
If you took a poll of every GM and every HC in the NFL and asked them if they want Jones as their QB or the #1 pick in the draft (and pick of any college QB: Lawrence/Fields,etc) you think anyone is going to say Jones? Come on...
BUT
If you took a poll of every GM and every HC in the NFL and asked them if they want Jones as their QB or the #1 pick in the draft (and pick of any college QB: Lawrence/Fields,etc) you think anyone is going to say Jones? Come on...
Except I don't think it's that simple. Look at the other holes this roster has. Again, if Jones is viewed as someone you can win with and his ceiling is high enough, then I think you'd be better served trade the pick for multiple picks. Eric mentions it every week, the loss of SB still can not be overstated enough, his loss is tremendous and I think would take a lot of the pressure off Jones and opening things up much more.
In short, I don't know if the drop in potential talent, because Lawrence has yet to play at this level, is significant enough where you'd turn down let's say 3 first round picks or more for the trade. That's potentially a ER, number one WR and OL/DB help right there... several big areas of need on this team.
ron, that wasn't my point. My point was that if Jones is the guy that Judge views can win games here provided a good supporting cast, that if we do indeed end up with a pick in the 1-3 range, to maybe trade of that to acquire more picks and plug more holes...
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This question in the Press Conference after the Dallas game. He quickly and bluntly said Daniel Jones is our QB Now and in the future. So lets just stop the who is the QB Questions from you guys before you guys start a QB Controversy where there isnt one and this gets out of Control. DANIEL JONE IS OUR QB. Next Question
Did you honestly expect him to say that Jones sucks and isn't the answer? You ever hear of coach speak? Maybe he is Judge's guy maybe he isn't, but you shouldn't put a single ounce of stock into that statement.
See this is the problem with fans if the coach doesnt say what they want, they say "Coach Speak" when in reality it isnt. Just like Judge saying his plan is going to take time because well according to fans it doesnt take time LMFAO Wnbelieveable, really.
Colts had Marvin Harrison, decent Oline and picked up Edgerrin James and Reggie Wayne.. They did quite well trading Marshall Faulk.
We have our QB who needs time and a shit ton of other players on offense like Manning had!!!
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In comment 15007789 couchcoach100 said:
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This question in the Press Conference after the Dallas game. He quickly and bluntly said Daniel Jones is our QB Now and in the future. So lets just stop the who is the QB Questions from you guys before you guys start a QB Controversy where there isnt one and this gets out of Control. DANIEL JONE IS OUR QB. Next Question
Did you honestly expect him to say that Jones sucks and isn't the answer? You ever hear of coach speak? Maybe he is Judge's guy maybe he isn't, but you shouldn't put a single ounce of stock into that statement.
See this is the problem with fans if the coach doesnt say what they want, they say "Coach Speak" when in reality it isnt. Just like Judge saying his plan is going to take time because well according to fans it doesnt take time LMFAO Wnbelieveable, really.
No, what we're saying is that Joe Judge would have to be a complete idiot to say anything different.
The coach usually gets his QB. I would expect Judge to ask the Mara's and Gettle for a new QB with such a high pick. And that would be the correct course.
And I expect the incompetent Mara and DG not to allow him. I am starting to think Judge got picked for this very reason. A real coach would insist on this.
That Jones is a big problem. He's not protecting the ball any better than last year and if this keeps up and he doesn't do a better job reading defenses we're going to need a new QB?
Here's the deal read it slowly. Daniel Jones is the Giants QB now and in the future until he's not and it's possible not is in 2021.
The coach usually gets his QB. I would expect Judge to ask the Mara's and Gettle for a new QB with such a high pick. And that would be the correct course.
And I expect the incompetent Mara and DG not to allow him. I am starting to think Judge got picked for this very reason. A real coach would insist on this.
Actually, if you believe the rumors, McAdoo wanted Mahomes and Shurmur wanted Josh Allen.
Neither one is capable of taking over a game and covering up deficiencies on offense alone. However, when they have the benefit of stacked offenses and can sit on an early lead by utilizing elite run games, they might be able to not screw up enough to get you to a Super Bowl.
Regardless of whether Gettleman is fired, we know that Chris Mara is going nowhere. We're never going to have the type of rosters to be an elite Super Bowl contender year after year because the folks evaluating the talent aren't good enough at their jobs.
This means we need a QB who has elite level talent and who can overcome the flaws that will always be present in one form or another on the roster.
Is it unfair to Jones to say "Russell Wilson has never had a good line but he still performs" considering the type of player we know Wilson is? Yes, but Wilson is an elite player. Is Jones capable of developing into an "elite" player. Anything is possible. But is Lawrence a guy who appears to clearly have a higher, elite level ceiling? Absolutely.
Long story short, if the Giants are in a position where Lawrence is available to them (basically being bad enough to have the top pick), Lawerence is a potential cheat code to immediately at least compete. He may only need a few pieces around him on offense to at least make us respectable in his first year.
With Jones, you need to revamp EVERYTHING to cover him. You NEED Thomas to turn into an elite LT and for the line to turn to the prime Dallas line. You NEED to find an elite big body WR. You NEED Barkley to somehow return and be as good as he was his rookie year. You NEED the scouting department to hit more consistently in the draft. Everything NEEDS to be perfect for this kid to succeed in the same way Goff and Jimmy G needed incredibly deep and talented rosters to get to the Super Bowl. And even then, neither was good enough or capable of raising their game enough to win. Both have regressed as the talent around them has eroded or aged.
Lawrence could be a guy who wins you 4-5 games by default, just being there. Give him a few pieces and we can be a 10 win team quick. Can you imagine Daniel Jones winning 10 games? The type of team we would need? We're never going to have that kind of roster he needs.
If we had a top 10-12 OL, and a top 15 WR corps, do you not think we'd have at least 2-3 wins right now?
Maybe it's a combination of things.Not necessarily one or the other.
I'm still trying to figure out our offense,at times it looks like a hybrid of New England and Dallas.
Maybe Jones doesn't fully trust the interior protection.He has taken a few hits,the type of hits that other quarterbacks rarely take.
In addition to making some questionable (i.e. bad) picks in the draft, he's not a good deal maker with draft capital.
We need a new GM before the draft if we want a king's ransom for Lawrence.
Apply that logic was to the players surrounding Jones.
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Jones is making Judge's job impossible.
Apply that logic was to the players surrounding Jones.
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In comment 15007807 Go Terps said:
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Jones is making Judge's job impossible.
Apply that logic was to the players surrounding Jones.
I do. The players generally suck. Jones included.
Don't be too optimistic there, fella.
I for one think he's already David Carr cooked, but we'll see.
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And for Jones to throw for 300 yards and have no turnovers every game. He is our QB right now.
BUT
If you took a poll of every GM and every HC in the NFL and asked them if they want Jones as their QB or the #1 pick in the draft (and pick of any college QB: Lawrence/Fields,etc) you think anyone is going to say Jones? Come on...
Except I don't think it's that simple. Look at the other holes this roster has. Again, if Jones is viewed as someone you can win with and his ceiling is high enough, then I think you'd be better served trade the pick for multiple picks. Eric mentions it every week, the loss of SB still can not be overstated enough, his loss is tremendous and I think would take a lot of the pressure off Jones and opening things up much more.
In short, I don't know if the drop in potential talent, because Lawrence has yet to play at this level, is significant enough where you'd turn down let's say 3 first round picks or more for the trade. That's potentially a ER, number one WR and OL/DB help right there... several big areas of need on this team.
SO in 3 games the GMEN had a chance to win. You think only Jones could have given them that opportunity?
SO if a QB is better than Jones- such as Lawrence is projected to be-- he wouldn't have pulled ANY of the games out?
Secondly, what was the play that completely turned the momentum at the end of the 1ts half and who was the blame in that moment form turning the game from 6-03 to 13-3.
You make it sound like Jones is Montana/Brady.
Thank you Mrs. Gettleman.
Especially if Judge is right about Jones.
Or is that not the answer you are fishing for?
WUT???
After all DG's raving about Jones, you THINK JONES IS SHURMUR'S GUY?
Put down the crack pipe, please.
Colts had Marvin Harrison, decent Oline and picked up Edgerrin James and Reggie Wayne.. They did quite well trading Marshall Faulk.
We have our QB who needs time and a shit ton of other players on offense like Manning had!!!
Ah the Jones needs more time and better players argument.
The fact is you don't really know that. He could still be just mediocre with 10 pro bowlers on the team.
Secondly football being a capped sport means you are never going to get that
Thirdly all evidence tells me Jones is medicre anyway so Eli at 39 would have been the same with better players and "more time"
Fourthly more time is BS. I don't see teams rushing Jones with just their front four or whatever. When the pressure Jones they are blitzing leaving their secondary vulnerable. Jones is too timid or not skilled enough to exploit that weakness leading to sacks, fumbles, ints , throwing away too many balls etc.
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Jones is Shurmur's guy...
WUT???
After all DG's raving about Jones, you THINK JONES IS SHURMUR'S GUY?
Put down the crack pipe, please.
You think you're going a little overboard. Am I hallucinating or wasn't SHurmur the one who was ranting and raving about Jones toughness and how much he liked Jones. New coach / new QB is stock / trade in the NFL. Who said toEli if you don't tart scoring it's over? Who benched Eli for 3rd round pick masquerading as #6 pick despite Eli playing good? Who thought if they could just get old man Eli out of the way they could win like 10 games at the show? It wasn't all just Gettleman.
If the Giants finish the season with the first or second draft pick, then that is because they have a terrrible won-loss record. And the quarterback will have contributed to that. Even if he's injured in our next game and sits out the rest of the season, his record is questiionable.
You have the chance to draft an at least as good as DJ rookie who you control for four or five years. You, that is Joe Judge, get to choose. It's a no brainer. If the chance to grab Trevor Lawrence is there, he will be taken.
The only way this doesn't happen is if Gettleman is still GM, which give our record doesn't make sense.
Especially if Judge is right about Jones.
Or is that not the answer you are fishing for?
Wasn't really fishing for anything. Maybe I could have phrased things better, I just think the constant threads about needing to move on from Jones already are getting tiresome. Maybe we do, maybe we don't. But my overall point was that most everyone seems to be bought in on Judge. Given that, if Judge believes, based on what he's seen in practice, on gameday, film from last year, etc. that Jones is a guy that can lead the team he ultimately wants to create then we should probably let things play out and give it time rather than having these daily discussions about moving on from Jones. Lawrence isn't going to suddenly bring this team into the playoffs, we still need WR, ER, DB and OL help.
If Judge believes Jones CAN be that guy, I just think it would then be more prudent to trade the high pick, if we get it, for more picks to try and fill the holes mentioned above.
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Jones is Shurmur's guy...
WUT???
After all DG's raving about Jones, you THINK JONES IS SHURMUR'S GUY?
Put down the crack pipe, please.
Shurmur definitely pushed hard for Jones. Without him maybe we go in another direction.
But either way, Jones was DG's pick
Vastly superior prospect I think should be the more apt term, no? And that's no disrespect to Lawrence or what he's been able to do. I admittedly have not watched a whole lot of him, but as I've seen a couple respected posters here point out the much superior talent he's been able to work with at Clemson. Darnold and Rosen were much more well liked and thought of coming out than Jones was, I'd again point to the talent disparity between USC/UCLA and Duke. Rosen is on a practice squad and Darnold seems to be working his way out of the Jets. Could Jones be the guy? Again, maybe, maybe not. But we're not going to be able to win with any QB without plugging the other holes we have.
I agree with your premise that its become tiresome talking about moving on from Jones, in respect to none of us have any clue what Judge thinks about DJ.
But I disagree with your assertion that "just changing out the QB wouldn't change the W/L column."
Paraphrasing you, obviously. The team was in a position to win 2 or 3 of the 5 games played this season thus far, and considerably better play at the qb position might very well have changed those Ls to Ws.
Just MHO.
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Could Jones be the guy? Again, maybe, maybe not. But we're not going to be able to win with any QB without plugging the other holes we have.
I agree with your premise that its become tiresome talking about moving on from Jones, in respect to none of us have any clue what Judge thinks about DJ.
But I disagree with your assertion that "just changing out the QB wouldn't change the W/L column."
Paraphrasing you, obviously. The team was in a position to win 2 or 3 of the 5 games played this season thus far, and considerably better play at the qb position might very well have changed those Ls to Ws.
Just MHO.
That's fair and a good argument. He had a couple game winning drives last year when he had more playmakers around him (TB and WFT, yes I know, it was only the WFT lol) so I guess I'm in the position of wanting to see what he can do when he has a better cast around him before wanting to move on. If Judge sees someone that he thinks would give them a better chance and wants to pull the trigger in the offseason then I'm OK with that too. I know it's early, but I'm very high on Judge and think he's the right guy to turn it around.
I'm not tearing my hair out because of Giants' loses, alrhough I am drinking considerably more ale. 😉