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jones staring down receiver or is it the safety?

Platos : 10/14/2020 11:13 am
everyone likes to say jones is eye-f*cking his receivers and when I'm watching I try to see it but it just seems like he's staring straight ahead, maybe at the safety.

what I haven't been able to tell is if the defense is playing with a single high safety and is he just watching for the safety to make a decision on going left or right.

when I say "everyone" I mostly mean people I watch the games with. But from the tv it just looks like he's staring into space and not really honed in on any one person(like he should be no?).
He's staring down  
JonC : 10/14/2020 11:14 am : link
his #1 receiver/route option.
I think he does both.  
PatersonPlank : 10/14/2020 11:16 am : link
They have shown examples where we clearly is looking off the safety. Every Sunday the announcers show this. I also think if he is happy with his pre-snap read then he expects the receiver to come free (because he thinks its the right play) and likely doesn't come off him fast enough.

So in my view it can be both, depending on the play
jonC  
Platos : 10/14/2020 11:31 am : link
if you go back to the steeler game where he hits Slayton for the TD he went through his progression perfectly. right to left, sees slayton, sets his feet and throws it perfectly.

so its not like he's incapable of doing it
I think it’s a mixture of things  
GoDeep13 : 10/14/2020 11:48 am : link
- Route concepts where the reaction of the safety dictates where he goes.

- Him sometimes believing strongly in his presnap reads and preselecting his target. (Sometimes getting fooled)

- Pocket collapsing making it hard for him to move on from one read to another.
No doubt but...  
SgtDog : 10/14/2020 12:05 pm : link
He is slow reading defenses he is slowing going through his progressions. The question is how many times per game does he have the time to stare down anyone. Compare that to how many times he receives the ball and has to run like hell as opposing defense comes crashing through barely touched.
RE: He's staring down  
jvm52106 : 10/14/2020 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15008600 JonC said:
Quote:
his #1 receiver/route option.


It is not a 100% that is what he is doing. I get it, some here just don't want him to be the QB. Maybe that is right, maybe that is wrong but, if it is wrong we are in for a much longer turn around.. The Trevor Lawrence love fest is getting a bit much here. Not that he isn't a good to very good prospect but, anyone who thinks the QB is our problem right now is completely ignoring our WR's who wouldn't even be first choice for an expansion team (outside of Slayton)and our Ol that doesn't do anything above average and is below average in Pass Pro on the left side.
jmv  
JonC : 10/14/2020 11:05 pm : link
You're getting carried away.

Jones doesn't 100% stare down his first option, but he does it way too much and defenders are keying on HIS eyes.
It's clear to me  
Joey in VA : 10/15/2020 8:53 am : link
That he's not comfortable in the offense yet. He looks confused too much. I'm not defending his play, it has been brutal at times but last year he has 4 pre season games, 14 OTAs, a rookie mini camp and a mini camp and hands on learning in the offense. This year he had 14 in field events before the first game. This offense is too complicated for this current NFL. Pre CBA in 2011 sure, but you need easier concepts that can be taught quickly and learned quickly with fewer options and reads in them. The good offensive systems have plays designed for one guy, they use a lot of window dressing and make it look like a complicated assignment which it is. But right now, misdirection and sleight of hand are the rule if you want a varied and successful offense with the extremely limited practice time.
RE: It's clear to me  
crick n NC : 10/15/2020 9:07 am : link
In comment 15009354 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
That he's not comfortable in the offense yet. He looks confused too much. I'm not defending his play, it has been brutal at times but last year he has 4 pre season games, 14 OTAs, a rookie mini camp and a mini camp and hands on learning in the offense. This year he had 14 in field events before the first game. This offense is too complicated for this current NFL. Pre CBA in 2011 sure, but you need easier concepts that can be taught quickly and learned quickly with fewer options and reads in them. The good offensive systems have plays designed for one guy, they use a lot of window dressing and make it look like a complicated assignment which it is. But right now, misdirection and sleight of hand are the rule if you want a varied and successful offense with the extremely limited practice time.


I think this a contributing factor. I would also add that receivers and TE's aren't comfortable yet either judging by the amount of times two receivers are attempting to share the same area.
If you watch the all 22  
fireitup77 : 10/15/2020 9:09 am : link
The giants basically run 2 route concept. The first one has 4 receivers run routes the same depth, around 10 yards. The two inside receivers run curls. The two outside run outs. There really isn't a chance to go thru a progression because the ball would have to come out at the same time for each receiver. On these he reads the safety, chooses a receiver and locks onto them.

The second concept they flood a zone with 4 receivers. The 4 receivers run routes that end up in the same zone. It looks like he is staring down his receiver because they are all in the same area.

While I'm not a huge Jones fan, he is not the issue. It's JG. The few times they run plays that have receivers at all three levels Jones has read things correctly and most of the plays have been successful.
I think he does it too  
section125 : 10/15/2020 9:22 am : link
often. If Tony Romo says he needs to look off the safeties, then he is spending too much time looking at his intended receiver. Could be that he is starting to feel the pressure and is looking to get the ball out before he is hit. IDK

Sy'56 says he is slow reading the defense. He is obviously way to smart to keep doing this. So why is he slow to read? Does he analyze too long? Does he not trust what he sees or does he simply not have the type of mind necessary for an NFL QB? What is it that confuses him?
But the biggest question is then, can he learn to read faster - can he process quicker? If he cannot, then he will never be an NFL QB of any consequence.
I think it's part needing his targets to get open  
JonC : 10/15/2020 9:27 am : link
and part panic sets in because the OL is swiss cheese.

He doesn't appear to be anticipating windows to throw and hit his receiver(s), nor is he throwing his receivers open, which are things he really needs to do at this level.
RE: If you watch the all 22  
crick n NC : 10/15/2020 9:29 am : link
In comment 15009364 fireitup77 said:
Quote:
The giants basically run 2 route concept. The first one has 4 receivers run routes the same depth, around 10 yards. The two inside receivers run curls. The two outside run outs. There really isn't a chance to go thru a progression because the ball would have to come out at the same time for each receiver. On these he reads the safety, chooses a receiver and locks onto them.

The second concept they flood a zone with 4 receivers. The 4 receivers run routes that end up in the same zone. It looks like he is staring down his receiver because they are all in the same area.

While I'm not a huge Jones fan, he is not the issue. It's JG. The few times they run plays that have receivers at all three levels Jones has read things correctly and most of the plays have been successful.


That is too much assumption for me. We as fans don't know much, if anything about how Garrett's offense looks for comparison. This hasn't been a typical year for installing new systems. Of course the ease of installing and learning an offense depends how complicated the offense is. I am not on board with the view(s) that Garrett is THE problem, or that he is already a failure. Garrett has proven over his career that is knows offensive football and seems well respected in that area.
RE: RE: If you watch the all 22  
Prude : 10/15/2020 11:30 am : link
In comment 15009381 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 15009364 fireitup77 said:


Quote:


The giants basically run 2 route concept. The first one has 4 receivers run routes the same depth, around 10 yards. The two inside receivers run curls. The two outside run outs. There really isn't a chance to go thru a progression because the ball would have to come out at the same time for each receiver. On these he reads the safety, chooses a receiver and locks onto them.

The second concept they flood a zone with 4 receivers. The 4 receivers run routes that end up in the same zone. It looks like he is staring down his receiver because they are all in the same area.

While I'm not a huge Jones fan, he is not the issue. It's JG. The few times they run plays that have receivers at all three levels Jones has read things correctly and most of the plays have been successful.



That is too much assumption for me. We as fans don't know much, if anything about how Garrett's offense looks for comparison.


Dude just watch the game. You dont even need the all 22 because most of the time all the receivers are right in the middle of the field or all coming out of their breaks at the same time. He is absolutely right. There is no progression to go through most of the time
RE: RE: RE: If you watch the all 22  
crick n NC : 10/15/2020 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15009531 Prude said:
Quote:
In comment 15009381 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 15009364 fireitup77 said:


Quote:


The giants basically run 2 route concept. The first one has 4 receivers run routes the same depth, around 10 yards. The two inside receivers run curls. The two outside run outs. There really isn't a chance to go thru a progression because the ball would have to come out at the same time for each receiver. On these he reads the safety, chooses a receiver and locks onto them.

The second concept they flood a zone with 4 receivers. The 4 receivers run routes that end up in the same zone. It looks like he is staring down his receiver because they are all in the same area.

While I'm not a huge Jones fan, he is not the issue. It's JG. The few times they run plays that have receivers at all three levels Jones has read things correctly and most of the plays have been successful.



That is too much assumption for me. We as fans don't know much, if anything about how Garrett's offense looks for comparison.



Dude just watch the game. You dont even need the all 22 because most of the time all the receivers are right in the middle of the field or all coming out of their breaks at the same time. He is absolutely right. There is no progression to go through most of the time


I don't most fans knowledge enough to take their "film breakdown" analysis seriously.

Trust  
crick n NC : 10/15/2020 12:03 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: If you watch the all 22  
PatersonPlank : 10/15/2020 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15009531 Prude said:
Quote:
In comment 15009381 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 15009364 fireitup77 said:


Quote:


The giants basically run 2 route concept. The first one has 4 receivers run routes the same depth, around 10 yards. The two inside receivers run curls. The two outside run outs. There really isn't a chance to go thru a progression because the ball would have to come out at the same time for each receiver. On these he reads the safety, chooses a receiver and locks onto them.

The second concept they flood a zone with 4 receivers. The 4 receivers run routes that end up in the same zone. It looks like he is staring down his receiver because they are all in the same area.

While I'm not a huge Jones fan, he is not the issue. It's JG. The few times they run plays that have receivers at all three levels Jones has read things correctly and most of the plays have been successful.



That is too much assumption for me. We as fans don't know much, if anything about how Garrett's offense looks for comparison.



Dude just watch the game. You dont even need the all 22 because most of the time all the receivers are right in the middle of the field or all coming out of their breaks at the same time. He is absolutely right. There is no progression to go through most of the time


LOL- an on-cue an "informed" comment makes Crick's case that the casual fans here have no idea what they are looking at
RE: RE: RE: RE: If you watch the all 22  
Prude : 10/15/2020 4:18 pm : link
In comment 15009622 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15009531 Prude said:


Quote:


In comment 15009381 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 15009364 fireitup77 said:


Quote:


The giants basically run 2 route concept. The first one has 4 receivers run routes the same depth, around 10 yards. The two inside receivers run curls. The two outside run outs. There really isn't a chance to go thru a progression because the ball would have to come out at the same time for each receiver. On these he reads the safety, chooses a receiver and locks onto them.

The second concept they flood a zone with 4 receivers. The 4 receivers run routes that end up in the same zone. It looks like he is staring down his receiver because they are all in the same area.

While I'm not a huge Jones fan, he is not the issue. It's JG. The few times they run plays that have receivers at all three levels Jones has read things correctly and most of the plays have been successful.



That is too much assumption for me. We as fans don't know much, if anything about how Garrett's offense looks for comparison.



Dude just watch the game. You dont even need the all 22 because most of the time all the receivers are right in the middle of the field or all coming out of their breaks at the same time. He is absolutely right. There is no progression to go through most of the time



LOL- an on-cue an "informed" comment makes Crick's case that the casual fans here have no idea what they are looking at


Is there anyone on this forum that isn't autistic or schizophrenic lol

I've been accused of being like 5 different guys' sockpuppet already.
RE: RE: If you watch the all 22  
fireitup77 : 10/15/2020 6:45 pm : link
In comment 15009381 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 15009364 fireitup77 said:


Quote:


The giants basically run 2 route concept. The first one has 4 receivers run routes the same depth, around 10 yards. The two inside receivers run curls. The two outside run outs. There really isn't a chance to go thru a progression because the ball would have to come out at the same time for each receiver. On these he reads the safety, chooses a receiver and locks onto them.

The second concept they flood a zone with 4 receivers. The 4 receivers run routes that end up in the same zone. It looks like he is staring down his receiver because they are all in the same area.

While I'm not a huge Jones fan, he is not the issue. It's JG. The few times they run plays that have receivers at all three levels Jones has read things correctly and most of the plays have been successful.



That is too much assumption for me. We as fans don't know much, if anything about how Garrett's offense looks for comparison. This hasn't been a typical year for installing new systems. Of course the ease of installing and learning an offense depends how complicated the offense is. I am not on board with the view(s) that Garrett is THE problem, or that he is already a failure. Garrett has proven over his career that is knows offensive football and seems well respected in that area.


I suggest you watch the linked video.
Link - ( New Window )
I don’t know who Bobby Skinner is but  
LG in NYC : 10/15/2020 8:00 pm : link
That was a really great video. I only watched about 10 minutes but just seeing the various angles and views and hearing his commentary was very helpful.
Definitely put a different light on Jones and the offense in general.
I remain optimistic.
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