BBK shared yesterday a behind the scenes “off the record “ conversation.
It was Troy Aikman s rookie season, one of the worst rookie seasons ever, he got benched for Steve Walsch.
Parcells with cigarette in hand, loved Aikman as a player said, “ Boys, it takes 30 games before you know about a quarterback in this league,” this when there were just 14 games per season
I hear the argument, Its a different era, but I m old school enough to believe it still is valid; also I remember the Phil Simms era.
A more recent example might be Tannahill (sp) a bust with Miami, maybe a rising star with the Titans.
There are posters here I respect who have about written Jones off, I think they are premature.
There are others who’s criticisms border on obnoxious and are obviously being done to poke the bear, I ignore them.
I would be curious to know if Parcells still ascribes to this theory
This isn't the right offense for anyone living in 2020. If not for a couple turnovers and 50 yard field goals this team scores under 20 against the pathetic Dallas defense. They averaged an awful 4.8 yards per play against that defense.
Hopefully Garrett is out the door at the end of the year. What led Mara to hire him I'll never know. Oh wait yes I do... he's family!
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I'm inclined to believe this is not the right offense for him.
This isn't the right offense for anyone living in 2020. If not for a couple turnovers and 50 yard field goals this team scores under 20 against the pathetic Dallas defense. They averaged an awful 4.8 yards per play against that defense.
Hopefully Garrett is out the door at the end of the year. What led Mara to hire him I'll never know. Oh wait yes I do... he's family!
It really is disappointing if this is the reason
What, you don't like:
- Keeping an athletic QB with no pocket presence in the pocket?
- Running plays on 2nd and 10?
- One of the lowest usages of pre-snap motion in the NFL?
- Low YAC passing routes (according to Evan Silva Evan Engram leads the NFL in button hooks run)?
This offense has been a total disaster. Everyone in Dallas hated Garrett's offense - so let's hire him.
Disaster.
They are using motion pre snap and mixing up the plays with trick plays and finally trying to get engram on little end Arline’s. They had designed runs with jones w the 49ers. Maybe they figured he could not run well against Dallas as effectively.
Jones can’t really run and throw good. Jones is at his best when he is either scrambling or sitting in the pocket with all day to throw ; staring at one receiver and throwing the ball. Aside from that he is pretty ineffective... how far is that going to go in the nfl?
They are using motion pre snap and mixing up the plays with trick plays and finally trying to get engram on little end Arline’s. They had designed runs with jones w the 49ers. Maybe they figured he could not run well against Dallas as effectively.
Jones can’t really run and throw good. Jones is at his best when he is either scrambling or sitting in the pocket with all day to throw ; staring at one receiver and throwing the ball. Aside from that he is pretty ineffective... how far is that going to go in the nfl?
I posted the graphic last week - the Giants (before the Dallas game) used pre-snap motion something like 5.9% of plays, which ranked them near the very bottom of the league.
If you read/listen to any of the analytics guys like Sharp, Establish the Run, The Athletic...the Giants are an archaic joke and have been for a while. The response to that from posters who are defenders of the faith has been to call those sources hacks, but the losses keep piling up so I know who I think it's right and who is full of shit.
Yes, and the damage done in those five games has been significant enough to help create an 0-5 start.
Again, what do you think is going to happen with time and more losses under our belt? Things are just going to click? When they finish 3-13 are you going to say it's only 16 games? What about next year when they go 4-12?
These are problems that need solving now.
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Games into a new system.
Yes, and the damage done in those five games has been significant enough to help create an 0-5 start.
Again, what do you think is going to happen with time and more losses under our belt? Things are just going to click? When they finish 3-13 are you going to say it's only 16 games? What about next year when they go 4-12?
These are problems that need solving now.
It's a simple point, nothing more.
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Games into a new system.
Yes, and the damage done in those five games has been significant enough to help create an 0-5 start.
Again, what do you think is going to happen with time and more losses under our belt? Things are just going to click? When they finish 3-13 are you going to say it's only 16 games? What about next year when they go 4-12?
These are problems that need solving now.
This is over the top negativity. We have a bunch of talented but young players (1st ,2nd year guys), a new coaching staff that has a full 5 games under their belt with no preseason, and a new system. What did you expect, a 5-0 record? We have been in 3 games with a chance to win, and in my view are getting better. You can't blame this staff, and most of these young players, for the past 8 years of Giants crappy football, but that seems to be what you are taking a broad brush and doing.
In your doomsday scenario's, if the team/players doesn't show immediate results and gratification, then you yearly dump everyone and start over. That will never work.
We will know a lot more about all of the above at the end of the season.
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Games into a new system.
Yes, and the damage done in those five games has been significant enough to help create an 0-5 start.
Again, what do you think is going to happen with time and more losses under our belt? Things are just going to click? When they finish 3-13 are you going to say it's only 16 games? What about next year when they go 4-12?
These are problems that need solving now.
Terps we could go 3-13 every year for 3 more years and posters will still be saying Jones just needs more time
You get young players you believe in, and stick with them through the growing pains. Thats all you can do. You can't just turn over the roster and coaching staff every year because we didn't go 10-6. We will be in constant turmoil
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The Giants are one of the worst offensive teams in the NFL. That's fact, not negativity. Expecting them to improve "just because" is based on wishes and hopes - not anything we're actually seeing on the field.
You get young players you believe in, and stick with them through the growing pains. Thats all you can do. You can't just turn over the roster and coaching staff every year because we didn't go 10-6. We will be in constant turmoil
I agree. The problem is we don't have players to believe in. And that starts at quarterback.
This is only a discussion because there are a couple of QB prospects at the top of the upcoming drafts that appear superior to anything we've seen in nearly a decade maybe more.
If the scenario was different, lets say there were no big time QB prospects. Or that the Giants were a better team and there were no QB prospects available where they were picking. In that case, we would all be talking what kind of improvement we want to see in him going into next year. We might also be talking about some competition to push him. But we wouldn't be talking about giving up on him.
The discussion is only happening in the context of, if the Giants are so bad that they are in a position to draft Lawrence or possible Fields, should they move on. There is a contingent that says that these prospects are just too good to pass on, while Jones' potential seems to be dimming.
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The Giants are one of the worst offensive teams in the NFL. That's fact, not negativity. Expecting them to improve "just because" is based on wishes and hopes - not anything we're actually seeing on the field.
You get young players you believe in, and stick with them through the growing pains. Thats all you can do. You can't just turn over the roster and coaching staff every year because we didn't go 10-6. We will be in constant turmoil
There is a very wide gap between "not going 10-6", and being bottom of the league. Its not even exaggeration to say bottom of the league.
What is gained by misreprentung this as being fickle fans?
This is over the top negativity. We have a bunch of talented but young players (1st ,2nd year guys),
I wouldn't say that we have a bunch of young, talented players. We're lucky if we have the league average amount of young, talented players.
exaggerated, that passing is easier to day than 25 years ago? any reading of the numbers tells you this. Every 7 years or so, starting in 1970 the league systematically instituted rules to make passing easier. so passing was much easier in 1984 than it was in 1975. It was easier in 1998 than it was in 1984. It was far easier in 2005 than it was in 1998. And it is so much easier today than in 2005. Just look at the number of 4000 yard seasons as a measure. You don;t think Stabler, Staubach, Bradshaw and Fouts would have loved this era with no bump and run and all the qb protections? They would have ate this era up. Today 2019 Daniel Jones looks as good as 1974 Ken Stabler . I assure you he is not.
Indeed. Furthermore, the other material difference is that the college game and pro game are more similar than ever today. So it’s a much easier transition. Back in the ‘70s and ‘80s, the college game, with the exception of a WAC teams like BYU, San Diego St, Hawaii, etc, was mostly rooted in the running game. And while the NFL was more run oriented too back then, the passing game was much more sophisticated in the NFL with guys like Coryell and Walsh really advancing their philosophies.
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In comment 15009151 crick n NC said:
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Games into a new system.
Yes, and the damage done in those five games has been significant enough to help create an 0-5 start.
Again, what do you think is going to happen with time and more losses under our belt? Things are just going to click? When they finish 3-13 are you going to say it's only 16 games? What about next year when they go 4-12?
These are problems that need solving now.
Terps we could go 3-13 every year for 3 more years and posters will still be saying Jones just needs more time
I don’t think this is in any way true. You understand of course 17 games with a bad team in Upheaval is not quite the same...right?
I see comments like this all and they are always very non-specific. How is this offense outdated? Aren’t we running the same concept as basically every other team in the league? Isn’t this the same scheme that made Dallas the #1 offense in the league last year?
I am considering that perhaps the full offense isn't on display yet for various reasons.
Yes, there could be circumstances outside of our knowledge, but I can only work with what's on camera. They're not doing any favors for Jones or the offensive line by not doing things to scheme WR and TEs open. The only time they have success is when Slayton gets a favorable match-up against a weak corner.
Garrett also hasn't called plays since 2012.
Yes, there could be circumstances outside of our knowledge, but I can only work with what's on camera. They're not doing any favors for Jones or the offensive line by not doing things to scheme WR and TEs open. The only time they have success is when Slayton gets a favorable match-up against a weak corner.
In my view Garrett knows offense, so I can't imagine he isn't apply that knowledge to the current situation. Now, if you don't feel Garrett is a good offensive mind then you're not likely to accept my reasoning which is obviously fine.
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In comment 15009164 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15009151 crick n NC said:
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Games into a new system.
Yes, and the damage done in those five games has been significant enough to help create an 0-5 start.
Again, what do you think is going to happen with time and more losses under our belt? Things are just going to click? When they finish 3-13 are you going to say it's only 16 games? What about next year when they go 4-12?
These are problems that need solving now.
Terps we could go 3-13 every year for 3 more years and posters will still be saying Jones just needs more time
I don’t think this is in any way true. You understand of course 17 games with a bad team in Upheaval is not quite the same...right?
I have no doubts that the Daniel Jones Defense Force will make excuses for him no matter how bad the record is.
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In comment 15009188 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15009164 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15009151 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Games into a new system.
Yes, and the damage done in those five games has been significant enough to help create an 0-5 start.
Again, what do you think is going to happen with time and more losses under our belt? Things are just going to click? When they finish 3-13 are you going to say it's only 16 games? What about next year when they go 4-12?
These are problems that need solving now.
Terps we could go 3-13 every year for 3 more years and posters will still be saying Jones just needs more time
I don’t think this is in any way true. You understand of course 17 games with a bad team in Upheaval is not quite the same...right?
I have no doubts that the Daniel Jones Defense Force will make excuses for him no matter how bad the record is.
I get the same feeling too? Why? is what I wonder. Did they just make up their minds about him early and will