Sounds like the Saints are getting tired of his act. He's still young and would do well here with Shep and Slayton. I would call up the saints right now and offer a 2nd and a 4th.
We need a WR that can dominate to help our young qb. Just like when we did when we signed plax.
No way I'm giving up a top 10 pick. So another option would be multiple 2nd round picks plus some extras.
Swapping 2's and adding in mid rounders and I'm interested.
We should be looking to acquire picks, not give them up.
We should be looking to acquire picks, not give them up.
Why is this an absolute? We should be looking to upgrade where we can. Just never pick up a phone call involve a trade?
There's almost a 0% chance this happens. I don't think we should give up what it would take to get him, but to flat out not be interested would be insane.
Speaking of trade...we having seen any trades in our FF league, Jim! WTH?
My ideal offseason is:
-another 2-3 nice value signings
-focus on where the draft takes you, 2021 class is strong at CB, WR, and C
but some of you miss the whole point, draft picks don't win football games, players do.
But you would rather use a draft pick, a premium pick on a college player and hope he someday becomes close to as good as Michael Thomas, instead of you know, actually acquiring Michael Thomas.
It's weird.
Yes, money is not irrelevant, but right now (and it's admittedly early for some rookies/young guys) but I don't see any player on the Giants worthy of a big $$$ second contract. No one. Not Barkley, not Jones, not Hernandez, not Peppers, closest is probably Slayton and as it stands right now in year 2 for him that's not even big $$, it's just he's worth a 2nd contract.
So, money really isn't much of an object right now.
Some of you are so incapable of thinking any way of rebuilding besides we have to get more draft picks, more draft picks, more draft picks.
Reality is only the first three rounds have a decent (and that's even relative) chance of panning out. for any GM. which doesn't mean don't make the picks, do it - Slayton is a good example of where they can work out, but don't fret not having draft picks if you give them up for long-term nucleus talent.
Michael Thomas IMO = good use of picks
Leonard Williams IMO <> good use of picks
but this is beyond unlikely and ignores the fact the Saints are still clinging to being in "win now" mode. I doubt they trade their best WR.
If the Saints AREN'T hanging up the phone - buyer beware.
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Can we please stop trading away draft picks? We are already missing our fifth and seventh from next year because of the idiotic trades for Williams and Yiadom. We should instead be trying to trade some players to recoup those picks so we have a better chance of rebuilding through the draft. You only make that trade if you are "one player away" from being a serious Super Bowl contender. That obviously isn't the Giants.
You make it sound like our draft picks are worth value? with the way our drafts have been. I would rather trade the picks for a known value than get another Eli Apple or Evan Engram.
The known values cost a lot of money on top of the picks.
You're probably going to dig your heels in and this whole conversation is going to go poorly for you, so I'll just say that this is a dumb idea and you might want to delete this thread before it deletes you.
but some of you miss the whole point, draft picks don't win football games, players do.
But you would rather use a draft pick, a premium pick on a college player and hope he someday becomes close to as good as Michael Thomas, instead of you know, actually acquiring Michael Thomas.
It's weird.
Yes, money is not irrelevant, but right now (and it's admittedly early for some rookies/young guys) but I don't see any player on the Giants worthy of a big $$$ second contract. No one. Not Barkley, not Jones, not Hernandez, not Peppers, closest is probably Slayton and as it stands right now in year 2 for him that's not even big $$, it's just he's worth a 2nd contract.
So, money really isn't much of an object right now.
Some of you are so incapable of thinking any way of rebuilding besides we have to get more draft picks, more draft picks, more draft picks.
Reality is only the first three rounds have a decent (and that's even relative) chance of panning out. for any GM. which doesn't mean don't make the picks, do it - Slayton is a good example of where they can work out, but don't fret not having draft picks if you give them up for long-term nucleus talent.
Michael Thomas IMO = good use of picks
Leonard Williams IMO <> good use of picks
but this is beyond unlikely and ignores the fact the Saints are still clinging to being in "win now" mode. I doubt they trade their best WR.
No, we'd rather have the next Michael Thomas on a rookie deal rather than trade for the expensive Michael Thomas because our GM lacks talent evaluation skills.
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The Saints would hang up the phone with these offers. If they put Thomas on the market, they are getting a 1st rounder plus. The fact that the Giants will have a top 3 pick most likely means that they wouldn't be a good trade partner. If they were to take a 2nd, there'd have to be another 2nd to go with it plus.
Speaking of trade...we having seen any trades in our FF league, Jim! WTH?
We've had 2 trades already, bruv
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To try and acquire a WR when we still cant give our QB requisite ti.e to throw nor rush the passer nor cover underneath routes.
We should be looking to acquire picks, not give them up.
Why is this an absolute? We should be looking to upgrade where we can. Just never pick up a phone call involve a trade?
There's almost a 0% chance this happens. I don't think we should give up what it would take to get him, but to flat out not be interested would be insane.
UConn if they called looking to dump him for a 3rd OR a 4th, thats one thing... To consider. But to offer what will be a very high 2nd and 4th (in a very deep WR draft) for a WR who punched out a teammate and for the right to pay him the majority of a 100m contract when we are woefully inadequate in so many areas. Look at the Steelers, they draft their WRs in rounds 2 thru 5 and consistently have weapons on the outside.
We dont spend 15m a year on a WR when we still have 3/4 below average performers on the O-line, no pass rush, below average corners and below average LBs. Draft a WR this year, dont pay one what Thomas is getting paid.
We've had 2 trades already, bruv
We did? Why is it that I'm not getting any email updates...I may need to look at my settings. Thanks.
By the way...in the spirit of this thread, I just sent you a trade request...;)
Save the CAP money. Cannot commit to $18 mill for a guy having temper tantrums in NO. People were screaming about Beckham...
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To try and acquire a WR when we still cant give our QB requisite ti.e to throw nor rush the passer nor cover underneath routes.
We should be looking to acquire picks, not give them up.
Why is this an absolute? We should be looking to upgrade where we can. Just never pick up a phone call involve a trade?
There's almost a 0% chance this happens. I don't think we should give up what it would take to get him, but to flat out not be interested would be insane.
No, we should not simply be trying to upgrade wherever we can. We should upgrade according to a thoughtful plan that includes a roster construction sequence, even if it's loosely built, that considers the mean timing for players at each position to reach their peak so that we stop acquiring players that are being wasted by attaching a brand new roof to a crumbling foundation.
They need to draft receivers...young, lower cost receivers would allow them to spend FA $$ on defense and continuing the OL rebuild.
They need to draft receivers...young, lower cost receivers would allow them to spend FA $$ on defense and continuing the OL rebuild.
Rookie deals are 4 years. For players drafted in the past decade how many 2nd contracts have the Giants given out? 3? Beckham, Shepard and JPP? Were there more? and two of them were traded before making it through the second contract.
Obviously that isn't ideal, but even the consistently good teams give out second contracts sparingly.
When you have a player you can acquire like Michael Thomas, under contract for 4 more years after this one you get him if the price is fair. He'll be on the team as long as the 2021 draft picks probably will be.
What is a fair price is obviously subjective and therein lies the rub, but so many people seem unwilling to think outside the draft picks are the only way to rebuild box.
And if some of you think "the Giants aren't contenders they shouldn't be acquiring good players in FA or via trade" if you don't think it's possible the Giants can contend in the next couple years with smart moves and good coaching you are not putting the right expectations on the team.
Who is the last Giants OL, drafted that was given a 2nd contract? Snee in 2004? If so, 16 years without a drafted OL given a 2nd contract, but you people want more draft picks.
I would expect better from you.
Second, the Saints would want nothing less than our 1st rounder, which would be a top 3 pick (which they'd use on Lawrence or Fields). Definitely not worth it.
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In comment 15008966 chopperhatch said:
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To try and acquire a WR when we still cant give our QB requisite ti.e to throw nor rush the passer nor cover underneath routes.
We should be looking to acquire picks, not give them up.
Why is this an absolute? We should be looking to upgrade where we can. Just never pick up a phone call involve a trade?
There's almost a 0% chance this happens. I don't think we should give up what it would take to get him, but to flat out not be interested would be insane.
No, we should not simply be trying to upgrade wherever we can. We should upgrade according to a thoughtful plan that includes a roster construction sequence, even if it's loosely built, that considers the mean timing for players at each position to reach their peak so that we stop acquiring players that are being wasted by attaching a brand new roof to a crumbling foundation.
This is what I mean. At this rate, acquiring an asset like Thomas would cost us picks and salary at a time when we cant fully utilize his abilities.
If, as the plan was told, our O line was giving Jones tons of time, nobody got open and we were on the precipice of having a great offense minus a game breaking wide out, I would want to trade a 2 or 3 or both for Thomas because that means we have a humming offense for 3/4 years. But we arent there yet. We need to build thru the draft and keep salaries down
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It's like two first round picks
I would expect better from you.
Just joshing section.
And no one seems to even suggest on the outside that the play of Williams this year, in Graham's schemes is among the main reasons our D has improved from last to a top 10 unit.
No doubt the additions of Martinez, Bradberry and Fackrell helped immensely too, as well as a sizeable step up grom Lo Carter and situational effectiveness of Johnson...
But just acknowledging ANY OF THAT flies in the face of all the bitches' bemoaning the Williams deal, the real premise of which is to lambast Gettleman, because "this team hasn't gotten any better, they are 0 and FIVE!"
THERE have been plenty of missteps along the way, and a huge strategical miscalculation in the belief the team should try to ride Eli Manning one more year (or two). But there has been radical improvement on the defensive side of the ball, and the O Line is poised gor success in 2021 or 2022.
A total rebuild from the ground up takes time, and even more time because it wasn't acknowledged properly in DG's year one.
But to my eyes, it has indeed started, 0-5 or not.
What "so much trouble" he had a fight with teammate and he's recovering from a high ankle sprain. It was an easy suspension for the Saints buying Thomas another two weeks rest since they have a bye this week.
What other "so much trouble" is Thomas causing? Are there more examples? Football is a violent game, and players are so close throughout the season it brings out hasty, emotional reactions at times.
Second, the "diva" who here expects a team of choir boys, but also who have the confidence, swagger and yes arrogance it sometimes requires to excel in sports?
Everyone is not Jerry Rice or Eli Manning or Larry Fitzgerald - players who thrive and appear humble - some players their hubris is what helps them become great. Why stifle it? Don't let it be a distraction - but don't ask people to change who they are. Thomas has survived 4+ years before any incidents, but all of a sudden he's a cancer who can't fit on a team? GTFO.
It's the only reason I feel like culture and chemistry are important. You need players to be "unchained" and able to be themselves if that's what it takes to get the best out of them, but not be a distraction to the team.
but make no mistake, if Thomas is a diva WR, I'll take a diva WR all day. If the price is fair.
Lastly, it comes down to price. Without a fair price this pipe dream doesn't make good sense for the team, but I absolutely feel like the best WR in the game locked up for 4 more years should be attractive to any team, even a rebuilding team. People clamoring for "more draft picks, more draft picks" the odds of getting a Michael Thomas in the draft are small, even with more picks - especially the ones people are fretting over not having.
It's not happening, but it's a fun discussion I just wish people weren't so close minded about the options and path forward from rock bottom (if this is in fact rock bottom which it may not be).
And no one seems to even suggest on the outside that the play of Williams this year, in Graham's schemes is among the main reasons our D has improved from last to a top 10 unit.
No doubt the additions of Martinez, Bradberry and Fackrell helped immensely too, as well as a sizeable step up grom Lo Carter and situational effectiveness of Johnson...
But just acknowledging ANY OF THAT flies in the face of all the bitches' bemoaning the Williams deal, the real premise of which is to lambast Gettleman, because "this team hasn't gotten any better, they are 0 and FIVE!"
THERE have been plenty of missteps along the way, and a huge strategical miscalculation in the belief the team should try to ride Eli Manning one more year (or two). But there has been radical improvement on the defensive side of the ball, and the O Line is poised gor success in 2021 or 2022.
A total rebuild from the ground up takes time, and even more time because it wasn't acknowledged properly in DG's year one.
But to my eyes, it has indeed started, 0-5 or not.
Odd post. Nobody questions that LW wasn't an above average player. It was always about whether he is difference maker having to trade two picks for him and pay him over $16M this year which is by far the highest on the team. Particularly when you are investing in an area where we have two players much like him at DT already. The flow of dollars really needed to go skills that LW doesn't bring to the table like an ER or a better cover guy.
And before you "lambast" anybody else that questioned the LW deal, this Top 10 defense is actually 31st in third down defense in the entire NFL. That happens to be the down where you can use a plus ER or better cover guy.
What "so much trouble" he had a fight with teammate and he's recovering from a high ankle sprain. It was an easy suspension for the Saints buying Thomas another two weeks rest since they have a bye this week.
What other "so much trouble" is Thomas causing? Are there more examples? Football is a violent game, and players are so close throughout the season it brings out hasty, emotional reactions at times.
Second, the "diva" who here expects a team of choir boys, but also who have the confidence, swagger and yes arrogance it sometimes requires to excel in sports?
Everyone is not Jerry Rice or Eli Manning or Larry Fitzgerald - players who thrive and appear humble - some players their hubris is what helps them become great. Why stifle it? Don't let it be a distraction - but don't ask people to change who they are. Thomas has survived 4+ years before any incidents, but all of a sudden he's a cancer who can't fit on a team? GTFO.
It's the only reason I feel like culture and chemistry are important. You need players to be "unchained" and able to be themselves if that's what it takes to get the best out of them, but not be a distraction to the team.
but make no mistake, if Thomas is a diva WR, I'll take a diva WR all day. If the price is fair.
Lastly, it comes down to price. Without a fair price this pipe dream doesn't make good sense for the team, but I absolutely feel like the best WR in the game locked up for 4 more years should be attractive to any team, even a rebuilding team. People clamoring for "more draft picks, more draft picks" the odds of getting a Michael Thomas in the draft are small, even with more picks - especially the ones people are fretting over not having.
It's not happening, but it's a fun discussion I just wish people weren't so close minded about the options and path forward from rock bottom (if this is in fact rock bottom which it may not be).
Why would a team in contention be willing to trade the best receiver in football mid season for draft picks?
I will wait for the critical thinking.
My ideal offseason is:
-another 2-3 nice value signings
-focus on where the draft takes you, 2021 class is strong at CB, WR, and C
this works. Sign a FART or FA OL (maybe peart makes a move here) and draft into the strength.
But it also doesn't have to be for just picks. Why can't it be for players and picks?
The reasons they could are numerous and can include the fact the Saints will be in cap hell soon, are in win now mode, and proved this week they could win without him but their D is very mediocre to poor (maybe include Leonard Williams in the trade). but like I've said all along, it's not likely they trade him.