The best way for me to grade DJones

at how poorly your list would do behind this line, with these "weapons," with the same playcalling, and with this defense.

I think we're lucky to have this tough sonofa.

is a journeyman backup. We most likely have to wait until the end of the year to assess Jones given his almost complete lack of weapons. That assessment is especially critical if we are considering drafting a QB in the first round next spring.

Behind this line.
Also currently we have very little from a WR prospective.
Tate- is washed up and at best a low end slot receiver.
Slayton- is fast but at best a decent #2 on a good team
Engram- can seem to run a decent route or use his body to sit in a zone and shield defenders.
Everyone else is not even on a practice squad of an good team.
Also we can't establish the run to put any fear in a defense for play action.
I hear he locks on his first option but he really doesn't have time to work his progressions anyway and when he does no one get separation.
I really don't think you can get a feel for Jones with what the Giants put around him.

Giants would be in a competitive position to allow a game manager type qb, an eagles Foles type model.....a qb with good running game and time in the pocket and a defense keeping opposing teams on their heels. With valuable resources expended to get Jones, this team has more missing pieces than a yard sale scrabble game. D.G......must be allowed to do his magic with some other team, ASAP.

Jones is a horrible quarterback. After he gets run out of here he'll not play another down in the nfl.

blitzing the Giants to death because they know Jones sucks at evading pressure and is incredibly likely to turn the ball over. Also, receivers outside of Slayton rarely create any real separation, so there's no fear of getting burned deep. And even if you do get burned once, if you keep it up he will eventually turn it over, so it's still worth the risk.

You blitz to increase your chances of a turnover. DJ turns it over like Santa during Christmas.

Also Jones is averaging 1.6 turnovers a game this year and only has 2 TD’s. Thats horrendous.

I get our o-line is not good, but Burrows is worse, Herberts is also statistically worse and they're doing ok as rookies.

There's really no way to deflect blame from any part of our offense. Yes we lack talent but the issues with DJ go beyond that.

that way BBI can see how he would perform in THIS offense. Maybe stop some of the craziness...and slow down that discussion.

On how many times he puts the ball on the carpet.

So, far, his test score is: F

Deshaun Watson is having such a good year... Wonder why???

In comment 15009291 CromartiesKid21 said:

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blitzing the Giants to death because they know Jones sucks at evading pressure and is incredibly likely to turn the ball over. Also, receivers outside of Slayton rarely create any real separation, so there's no fear of getting burned deep. And even if you do get burned once, if you keep it up he will eventually turn it over, so it's still worth the risk. You blitz to increase your chances of a turnover. DJ turns it over like Santa during Christmas. Also Jones is averaging 1.6 turnovers a game this year and only has 2 TD’s. Thats horrendous. I get our o-line is not good, but Burrows is worse, Herberts is also statistically worse and they're doing ok as rookies. There's really no way to deflect blame from any part of our offense. Yes we lack talent but the issues with DJ go beyond that. Jones sucks at evading pressure???? Holy shit some of these takes are just insane. Your flat out wrong. It isn’t opinion based. YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. He’s Incredible at avoiding the rush and still keeping his eyes down field. It’s like we watch totally different games. Vs dallas alone he made 5-8 plays that very few nfl qbs could make. Only the elite athletes could evade as many rushers as he does weekly. That means, since clearly your semi brain dead, guys like josh Allen, mahomes, Russ, Murray etc. I’m sure I’m leaving out a few but I hope you now get the concept.

My response is the last paragraph.

but he needs to start making plays soon. The ball is in his hand every play and he needs to make plays. DG has done a mostly horrible job. The WR's and OL are still well below average but this not how I have been judging Jones play. He holds the ball too long and does not feel the rush. His internal clock is off. The ball needs to come out on time or he needs to escape pocket and buy time. Does not appear the instincts are there for him. I am hoping he will have a good game this week and get some confidence back. How he finishes this season will be crucial after his bad start.

In comment 15009296 EricJ said:

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that way BBI can see how he would perform in THIS offense. Maybe stop some of the craziness...and slow down that discussion.

I hate this way of thinking because it is used to make excuses for poor QB play…first with Eli when his game started deteriorating in 2017 and now with Jones.

Many posters continue to think that it’s not the QB and that the problem lies elsewhere. In their way of thinking the problem is always with the OL or the WRs or the poor Defense or the coaches or some combination of all these things, and if the Giants could only upgrade in those areas the QB will magically become a great player.

Well guess what? Jones is part of the problem right now. He’s certainly not the entire problem, but he’s a big part of it.

OL play has been down league-wide for the last few years and it hasn’t stopped other QBs from succeeding. And even though we as fans may not be able to ascertain whether Jones has what it takes to be a franchise QB (given the poor play of those around him) I guarantee you that the Giants’ coaches CAN evaluate Jones.

The coaches see Jones in practices and they break down game film. They know what plays were called. They know which players successfully executed each play and which ones did not. At the end of the season Giants coaches will know whether or not Jones is their franchise QB regardless of how well (or poorly) those players around him performed.

As far as how well Lawrence would play in THIS offense, I suspect he would play significantly better than Jones because he’s a better QB. But even if we didn’t get an immediate return with Lawrence (meaning more wins) it’s almost a moot point. Every top college prospect evaluator that I’ve read or heard rates Lawrence much, much higher than Jones. And if the Giants are given the opportunity to upgrade the most important position on the field and get their franchise QB for the next 10-15 years, I seriously doubt they will pass on Lawrence and try to build the team around a QB like Jones.

If the Giants did pass on Lawrence and instead tried to prop up Jones by "filling the holes" around him, it would likely haunt this franchise forever.

if Eli was playing would we be 0-5? People blamed Eli for the past losses, new coaches, players, QB...still losing.

Awful awful take. Go look at the pressure rates for all qbs. I’ll save you some times. Mahomes worst game as far as protection this season was 31 percent pressure rate. That was his worst. Jones best pressure rate was 39.5 percent. That is a massive difference. Add in the lack of talent around him and there isn’t much he can do. Jones is not a big problem at all. His ability to escape and avoid the rush is something that is frankly amazing. He made about 8 plays Sunday that I said WOW. Playing QB isn’t the same thing as being a pitcher in baseball. We all know degrom is amazing regardless of the win loss record and the lack of
Run support. Jones can’t flourish on a putrid offense. Our offensive tackles rank last in the nfl. Zeitler is our best rated offensive lineman and he comes in ranked as the 32nd best guard. Jones, in my opinion, is much more than a quick game QB. Give him a line and he’ll pick teams apart.

Jones is a developing quarterback still in the phase where he has to improve on a number of things and hone his skills before he's the finished product. Are there worrisome signs? Yes. Are there also things that he does well at this point that he can continue to build on? Yes. It's up to the coaching staff and Jones to continue to improve and as a number of people have pointed out it's difficult to assess given the woes of the OL and the lack of skill position talent. On top of that, new coaching staff new offense a lot to learn.

These are not excuses - the development curve is different for everyone and he's got 11 more games to show what he is presumedly with a team getting more comfortable with a new scheme.
I still come down on the side of optimism because I think he's a tough son of a gun he's shown to have the arm to make all the throws and by all accounts is super smart and a hard worker. Some guys improve and grow into the role and some guys don't. Still too early on him but I'm still on the positive side.

I also think (rightly or wrongly) the Giants are not thinking about Lawrence one bit right now and their focus is on Jones and his development

In comment 15009359 Tuckrule said:

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Awful awful take. Go look at the pressure rates for all qbs. I’ll save you some times. Mahomes worst game as far as protection this season was 31 percent pressure rate. That was his worst. Jones best pressure rate was 39.5 percent. That is a massive difference. Add in the lack of talent around him and there isn’t much he can do. Jones is not a big problem at all. His ability to escape and avoid the rush is something that is frankly amazing. He made about 8 plays Sunday that I said WOW. Playing QB isn’t the same thing as being a pitcher in baseball. We all know degrom is amazing regardless of the win loss record and the lack of Run support. Jones can’t flourish on a putrid offense. Our offensive tackles rank last in the nfl. Zeitler is our best rated offensive lineman and he comes in ranked as the 32nd best guard. Jones, in my opinion, is much more than a quick game QB. Give him a line and he’ll pick teams apart.

I think all of us are well aware that football is a team game and that for a QB to lead a team to a winning record he needs help from his teammates.

But all the excuses you and others continue to make for Jones’ poor play doesn’t address the key question that I was responding to in my previous post.

IF the Giants ended up with the #1 overall pick and IF (as I suspect) the Giants and most other professional talent evaluators have Lawrence rated much, much higher than Jones, the Giants would be foolish to think that their best option to have winning teams and championships over the next 10-15 years would be to pass on Lawrence in favor of building up the team around Jones.

In comment 15009309 giant_thoughts said:

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Deshaun Watson is having such a good year... Wonder why???

DeShaun Watson, Gardner Minshew, Teddy Bridgewater each have QB ratings over 100 playing for supposedly poor sides.
Daniel Jones's rating is 70 alongside Sam Darnold. Even Haskins managed a rating of 80. I know it's not the only consideration, but QB ratings aren't pie in the sky either.

Lawrence looks the part I’ll agree. I’d prefer to keep jones and get a massive haul for the number 1 pick if we do indeed get it. Realistically we aren’t going to be there at the end and my hope is to select Sewell from Oregon. But the haul for the number 1 pick, like an RG3 type deal, would be great for this team going forward so long as we have a new GM

In comment 15009366 Kidprince said:

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Jones is a developing quarterback still in the phase where he has to improve on a number of things and hone his skills before he's the finished product. Are there worrisome signs? Yes. Are there also things that he does well at this point that he can continue to build on? Yes. It's up to the coaching staff and Jones to continue to improve and as a number of people have pointed out it's difficult to assess given the woes of the OL and the lack of skill position talent. On top of that, new coaching staff new offense a lot to learn. These are not excuses - the development curve is different for everyone and he's got 11 more games to show what he is presumedly with a team getting more comfortable with a new scheme. I still come down on the side of optimism because I think he's a tough son of a gun he's shown to have the arm to make all the throws and by all accounts is super smart and a hard worker. Some guys improve and grow into the role and some guys don't. Still too early on him but I'm still on the positive side. I also think (rightly or wrongly) the Giants are not thinking about Lawrence one bit right now and their focus is on Jones and his development

Fans don’t really know who’s REALLY at fault and why a play works or doesn’t work.

In the immortal words of Jim Mora… “You think you know, but you don’t know. And you never will.”

It’s also the main reason why when a reporter in a post-game presser references a specific play and wants to know “what happened” a HC like Judge will respond by saying that he has to first view the tape.

When coaches view the tape they are able to evaluate the performance of ALL 11 players on a specific play and ascertain why a play worked or didn’t work. That’s what Mora was referring to when he said to a reporter (and by extension the fans) “You think you know, but you don’t know. And you never will.”

As an example let’s say on a given play that Jones was sacked. A fan viewing the game on his/her TV might point to one of the OL not sustaining his block as the reason Jones was sacked and the play failed. And they might be 100% correct on THAT play.

But when the coaches look at the film of that play they might see (for example) that Jones locked on to his primary target (who was covered) and missed an open WR. They might conclude that given the defensive setup that Jones should have checked out of the called play. The failure of a play could be for any number of reasons, including the reason that the fans will think, that Jones was sacked because the OL failed. The coaches will know the EXACT reason that play failed.

It’s easy for fans (myself included) to speculate about Jones and whether or not he’s “the” guy that can lead this team for the next 10-15 years, but we don’t have access to all the information that the coaches do (not to mention their expertise) to make an informed evaluation.

We just don’t know…

And You Never Will - Jim Mora - ( New Window )

In comment 15009396 Tuckrule said:

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Lawrence looks the part I’ll agree. I’d prefer to keep jones and get a massive haul for the number 1 pick if we do indeed get it. Realistically we aren’t going to be there at the end and my hope is to select Sewell from Oregon. But the haul for the number 1 pick, like an RG3 type deal, would be great for this team going forward so long as we have a new GM

Very logical reasoning and understood. The only counter point I would raise is that those picks may build up the talent on both sides ball, and better the team, which is clearly the point. But, what if the Giants still only have a Brock Osweiler in Jones and now you have a situation where you have quality team but a lackluster qb. You're probably in contention for the playoffs on occasion but not like a championship.

This, of course, is speculation but the point is you generally win titles when you have a top qb surrounded by some talent. I don't think we know yet.

I supposed another way to look at it is say trade the #1 pick for multiple #1 and #2 picks over the next couple of drafts. Build up the talent, and, it looks like 2022 draft is shaping up to be a deep qb class - if you follow CFB. Now you have a legitimate top prospect qb coming into a better situation - which is what a lot of you are aptly point out. This also gives Jones one more year to show he is an actual top 10 qb. If he is, the Giants aren't in position to take one of those top 2022 qbs and won't need to be.

In reality, any situation is better than the current state.

If we suck soooooo fucking bad that we have the number 1 pick, Jones is not good enough. End of fucking story. If DJ wants to be our franchise QB, he has to put on his big boy underpants, not turn the ball over when it matters and win just a couple games. The Jets will be lucky to win a game. It is in Jones hands, let's see how he does.

In comment 15009396 Tuckrule said:

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Lawrence looks the part I’ll agree. I’d prefer to keep jones and get a massive haul for the number 1 pick if we do indeed get it. Realistically we aren’t going to be there at the end and my hope is to select Sewell from Oregon. But the haul for the number 1 pick, like an RG3 type deal, would be great for this team going forward so long as we have a new GM

If the Giants had the #1 overall pick and Lawrence is the prospect that many think he is, getting a haul for him would be tempting. But there’s a reason why the draft spot for RG3 was traded for a haul and why the #1 overall pick (to get Luck) was not traded for an even bigger haul.

It’s the same reason why the Peyton Manning pick wasn’t traded and why the Elway pick wouldn’t have been traded if the owner hadn’t felt it was his only option.

QBs who are rated, not just as the best QB in that year but as “generational QBs” are simply NOT traded away, regardless of what other teams offer for that top draft pick.

IF (again, big if) Lawrence is considered in that class, I seriously doubt that the team with the overall #1 pick will trade out of the top spot to get their hole-filling haul.

Building the team around a QB who may be average to good may yield some short-term success, but getting that generational QB in place is the BEST way for a team to have continued success over the next 10-15 years.

Has been sacked 3 times this season, and is having a very good year. Jones has been sacked 16 this season. I don’t care who is the QB of the Giants. If you don’t have time to throw the ball you can not be effective.

The bigger issue is he doesn't seem to be able to see where the blitz is coming from and reset the protection something Eli was great at that goes unnoticed until the new guy can't do it. That's what causes most of the turnovers.

the first sentence?

When Jones just gets to sit in the pocket all day and throw pretty passes?

Sorry but the NFL doesn't work like that. Mahomes faces less pressure because everyone is figuring out that he is going to roast your secondary if you don't get to him. They will constantly blitz Jones because he is not going to roast any secondary except maybe some shitty team.

Sure this team sucks but his high sack total are him holding the ball long. Somehow Jones and quick release are words you do not here going together when watching the Giants lately. If this team does not take Lawrence I think I am out. These clowns are already and enough but if they double down I am ebaying my Giants gear.

outside of injury.

In comment 15009608 Black_Flag said:

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When Jones just gets to sit in the pocket all day and throw pretty passes? Sorry but the NFL doesn't work like that. Mahomes faces less pressure because everyone is figuring out that he is going to roast your secondary if you don't get to him. They will constantly blitz Jones because he is not going to roast any secondary except maybe some shitty team. Sure this team sucks but his high sack total are him holding the ball long. Somehow Jones and quick release are words you do not here going together when watching the Giants lately. If this team does not take Lawrence I think I am out. These clowns are already and enough but if they double down I am ebaying my Giants gear.

Of course Mahommes has Kelce, Tyreek Hill, Hradman, and Watkins, but of course that makes no difference

In comment 15009609 UConn4523 said:

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outside of injury.

Agreed, you are saying Jones isn't the guy at that point. Which may not be unreasonable, but he should get the remainder of the season barring injury.

In comment 15009615 PatersonPlank said:

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In comment 15009608 Black_Flag said: Quote: When Jones just gets to sit in the pocket all day and throw pretty passes? Sorry but the NFL doesn't work like that. Mahomes faces less pressure because everyone is figuring out that he is going to roast your secondary if you don't get to him. They will constantly blitz Jones because he is not going to roast any secondary except maybe some shitty team. Sure this team sucks but his high sack total are him holding the ball long. Somehow Jones and quick release are words you do not here going together when watching the Giants lately. If this team does not take Lawrence I think I am out. These clowns are already and enough but if they double down I am ebaying my Giants gear. Of course Mahommes has Kelce, Tyreek Hill, Hradman, and Watkins, but of course that makes no difference

How many big plays has Eli made to some guy you never heard of? There was actually another receiver called Beckhum or Beckham (Sp?) on this team that they tried featuring in the NFC championship game; how about the play to Slayton down the sideline? A rookie.

So the idea of the pro-Jonsers is that you draft someone 6th ; who is not an elite QB out of the gate; Possess elite arm strength ; spend a #1 draft pick to get the right guys around him and then see what you got with Jones?

In comment 15009257 GiantNatty said:

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at how poorly your list would do behind this line, with these "weapons," with the same playcalling, and with this defense. I think we're lucky to have this tough sonofa.

I was being conservative when creating that list. I think the initial list was only 5-6 players with the main reason being the OL.

In comment 15009276 AcidTest said:

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is a journeyman backup. We most likely have to wait until the end of the year to assess Jones given his almost complete lack of weapons. That assessment is especially critical if we are considering drafting a QB in the first round next spring.

Not saying Colt is the answer at all..just the only other option right now. I guess that move would crush Jones confidence although it can't be great right now anyway.

Pro bowl QB. With the lowest graded OL and Wr group in football what do you expect. Wake up people.

In comment 15009291 CromartiesKid21 said:

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blitzing the Giants to death because they know Jones sucks at evading pressure and is incredibly likely to turn the ball over. Also, receivers outside of Slayton rarely create any real separation, so there's no fear of getting burned deep. And even if you do get burned once, if you keep it up he will eventually turn it over, so it's still worth the risk. You blitz to increase your chances of a turnover. DJ turns it over like Santa during Christmas. Also Jones is averaging 1.6 turnovers a game this year and only has 2 TD’s. Thats horrendous. I get our o-line is not good, but Burrows is worse, Herberts is also statistically worse and they're doing ok as rookies. There's really no way to deflect blame from any part of our offense. Yes we lack talent but the issues with DJ go beyond that. The fact he is already in his second offense is one of the biggest factors for me. When you have to think too much on the field you stare down WRs and don't see the rush. He has not been rolling out to allude rushers as much but I see him back pedalling. Coach Red needs to help this kids out with the play calling. DJ didn't even really run with the ball last game right?

Outside of a big game against the worst team in the league

In comment 15010150 Carl in CT said:

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Pro bowl QB. With the lowest graded OL and Wr group in football what do you expect. Wake up people.

really what are you seeing that I am not?

I see a guy who was a good enough for Duke QB. Someone who is playing for a school that doesn't really produce NFL talent.

He needs all day to throw and to stare down receivers in which case yes he can throw pretty passes. Otherwise he holds the ball too long even on the run. It is low percentage play when he throws on the run and holds the ball long. it looks nice when it works. It rarely does and ends up bouncing 3 feet in front of a receiver on a game more often than not or he is forced to throw it away

. Otherwise his passes are too short and it takes forever to get down the field also increasing the likelihood of the inevitable turnover once the opposing defense blitzes him. That is what I see....Now what is your take?