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How does everyone feel about the WSH game?

Sean : 10/15/2020 10:17 am
The one team the Giants have continued to play well during this putrid stretch of football is WSH. The Giants are 4-2 against WSH dating back to the 2017 season.

This is the first game of the year in which the Giants are favored. It feels like the SF game a bit in terms of expectations, but the SF game was the worst game of the year for the team.

The Giants have had legit chances to win against Chicago, LAR and Dallas. They’ve played well against a Pittsburgh team which is undefeated. They got smoked by a poor SF team.

This is another big test for the OL and Jones as well. This is a game Daniel Jones needs to win. This is a game the 6th pick in the draft should be able to win regardless of supporting cast.

I’m a big fan of Judge, but he needs wins as well. There is some stuff to like and I think he’s got a long leash here, but wins need to come at some point.

If the Giants lose this game, they have a trip to Philly on a short week followed by Tampa. This team will most likely be staring at 0-8 with a loss on Sunday. A loss Sunday and things get really ugly.
it's a turning point  
ryanmkeane : 10/15/2020 10:19 am : link
for progress. win goes a long way towards settling things down a bit. a loss and the season is essentially over considering it's a division game
I said it yesterday and doubling down today  
jvm52106 : 10/15/2020 10:22 am : link
33-20 Giants.

I think this team is improving and honestly, if we don't have the fake FG wiped by the penalty I think we roll in that game. We need a win to get our heads right..

If you truly want this team better faster then we need to win a few games. Drafting a QB again will set us back much longer.We need to be able to trade down in the draft and acquire multiple picks and restock the pantry while signing 1 or 2 FA's that can make a major impact. Drafty wise I want the Penn St LB!
Scurred  
Spider43 : 10/15/2020 10:24 am : link
It's the only game on the schedule that I think is truly winnable. Though if we lose this weekend, we'll probably return the favor in DC in a couple of weeks. But if we lose this weekend, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it, we will be in the Lawrence sweepstakes for real (Jets be damned).
I’m numb  
dlauster : 10/15/2020 10:29 am : link
I agree this game looks winnable on paper. But until things change I’m going with averages. Giants will cough up two turnovers that lead to Washington points.

There will be a time when the game is in the balance and someone will need to step up. No one will answer the call.

Again I hope I’m wrong. Sometime I have to be right?
They'll probably win because they always beat  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/15/2020 10:30 am : link
the Skins for the most part. We own them like the Eagles own us.
Giants should win  
BigBlue2112 : 10/15/2020 10:32 am : link
but Jones is going to get beat up by that pass rush
RE: I said it yesterday and doubling down today  
Optimus-NY : 10/15/2020 10:38 am : link
In comment 15009447 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
33-20 Giants.

I think this team is improving and honestly, if we don't have the fake FG wiped by the penalty I think we roll in that game. We need a win to get our heads right..

If you truly want this team better faster then we need to win a few games. Drafting a QB again will set us back much longer.We need to be able to trade down in the draft and acquire multiple picks and restock the pantry while signing 1 or 2 FA's that can make a major impact. Drafty wise I want the Penn St LB!


That's ridiculous. If the NYG have the first overall pick, then it behooves them to take Trevor Lawrence. It's common sense.
Going to be interesting watching Chase young vs Thomas  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/15/2020 10:43 am : link
as all Giants fans wanted Young.

This game which they may win could be the fulcrum again for watching WAS select Lawrence and Giants taking a less impactful player.
Tough to see how they handle the WFT defensive line  
Go Terps : 10/15/2020 10:45 am : link
I'd bet the under on this game; and I could see a Jones turnover being critical.
RE: RE: I said it yesterday and doubling down today  
jvm52106 : 10/15/2020 10:46 am : link
In comment 15009472 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15009447 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


33-20 Giants.

I think this team is improving and honestly, if we don't have the fake FG wiped by the penalty I think we roll in that game. We need a win to get our heads right..

If you truly want this team better faster then we need to win a few games. Drafting a QB again will set us back much longer.We need to be able to trade down in the draft and acquire multiple picks and restock the pantry while signing 1 or 2 FA's that can make a major impact. Drafty wise I want the Penn St LB!



That's ridiculous. If the NYG have the first overall pick, then it behooves them to take Trevor Lawrence. It's common sense.


Its not common sense.. You literally will have two QB's picked in the top 6 in the span of 3 years..That is BS. If you think Lawrence is teh difference here then you have chaged drastically from the Opt. of teh past. NO QB would be winning with this bunch of parts. You use Optimus as your handle so I will use a Transformers reference, we literally have our offense made up of Junkticon rejects. To blame Jones is just not right.

If we take Lawrence (and doubt we even get close to the #1 pick) we will be years longer rebuilding...

When we got Eli we already had the parts of a winning team there. 2002 we made the playoffs and should have won a WC game. 2003 the wheels came of the JF regime but, we still had Shockey, Toomer, Barber and a decent Oline. We added more in the 05 off season - Burress and McKenzie specfically. Oh yeah, we had a decent defense already with Osi and Strahan already on board.

We have NONE of that right now.
I’ll Tell you how I feel  
ShocktoBeck : 10/15/2020 10:47 am : link
The game has me very nervous and they indeed may stumble into a win.
I hope they lose, hope they lose the 10 games after that, and get the 1st pick as this year that pick will generate either a Lawrence or a huge compensation in a trade, more than any other year perhaps since 2012, that will allow the Giants to restock significantly in short order.

I had more than my fair share of meaningless wins over Washington in 3-13 seasons. I want actions that will turn the franchise around. This team is going nowhere this year even if they somehow win this ridiculous division.
Not happy swimming in mediocrity over another decade because of half way measures, on the field and in the front office. The Giants May haven’t noticed it yet but the past 8 seasons have eroded the fan base.

As a side note, not sure what the statement “...a game a 6th pick in the draft should win, regardless of supporting cast” means. I get the spirit of it, but still - This isn’t basketball, a QB with no supporting cast ain’t winning anything even if he’s Joe Montana.
RE: RE: RE: I said it yesterday and doubling down today  
Optimus-NY : 10/15/2020 10:50 am : link
In comment 15009482 jvm52106 said:
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In comment 15009472 Optimus-NY said:


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In comment 15009447 jvm52106 said:


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33-20 Giants.

I think this team is improving and honestly, if we don't have the fake FG wiped by the penalty I think we roll in that game. We need a win to get our heads right..

If you truly want this team better faster then we need to win a few games. Drafting a QB again will set us back much longer.We need to be able to trade down in the draft and acquire multiple picks and restock the pantry while signing 1 or 2 FA's that can make a major impact. Drafty wise I want the Penn St LB!



That's ridiculous. If the NYG have the first overall pick, then it behooves them to take Trevor Lawrence. It's common sense.



Its not common sense.. You literally will have two QB's picked in the top 6 in the span of 3 years..That is BS. If you think Lawrence is teh difference here then you have chaged drastically from the Opt. of teh past. NO QB would be winning with this bunch of parts. You use Optimus as your handle so I will use a Transformers reference, we literally have our offense made up of Junkticon rejects. To blame Jones is just not right.

If we take Lawrence (and doubt we even get close to the #1 pick) we will be years longer rebuilding...

When we got Eli we already had the parts of a winning team there. 2002 we made the playoffs and should have won a WC game. 2003 the wheels came of the JF regime but, we still had Shockey, Toomer, Barber and a decent Oline. We added more in the 05 off season - Burress and McKenzie specfically. Oh yeah, we had a decent defense already with Osi and Strahan already on board.

We have NONE of that right now.


Junkion is the faction/group you're trying to refer to. I'm not blaming Jones per se. I'm taking a franchise altering player and dealing this guy off. Period. This team isn't going anywhere fast as it is. When you get a chance to take a franchise QB, you take him. It's easy. Quit rationalizing it otherwise.
Giants don't know how to win  
US1 Giants : 10/15/2020 10:50 am : link
They will make the mistakes that bring losing.
RE: I said it yesterday and doubling down today  
Jonesin 4 A Ship : 10/15/2020 10:55 am : link
In comment 15009447 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
33-20 Giants.

I think this team is improving and honestly, if we don't have the fake FG wiped by the penalty I think we roll in that game. We need a win to get our heads right..

If you truly want this team better faster then we need to win a few games. Drafting a QB again will set us back much longer.We need to be able to trade down in the draft and acquire multiple picks and restock the pantry while signing 1 or 2 FA's that can make a major impact. Drafty wise I want the Penn St LB!


100% agree, Micah Parsons is the top player on my list for the next draft without question. Cant wait to watch him play some ball this Fall.
I always look forward to the WSH  
Metnut : 10/15/2020 10:55 am : link
games in recent years. These games are a crucial turning point in the Giants' seasons recently. The result of the game decides whether we can expect to pick in the #1-#3 range or the #4-#7 range. Truly riveting stuff here in the Dave Gettleman era.
Pretty much like I did for the first 3 games  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/15/2020 11:04 am : link
...winnable.
Indifferent sadly  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/15/2020 11:11 am : link
.
Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
Oscar : 10/15/2020 11:14 am : link
Not rooting for it outright, but I think a loss is best. This team has no hope this season and I think a new GM is the priority.

If Jones is the guy he’ll put the team on his back and prove it the remainder of the season. If he’s not the guy then 0-16 is as good an outcome as any, Trevor Lawrence could be a real difference making talent. Best way to stop circling the toilet bowl might be to just get flushed down once and for all and start over.

If they don't win this week  
arniefez : 10/15/2020 11:14 am : link
when?
Though I'll root for a win because I'm a fan  
Go Terps : 10/15/2020 11:16 am : link
The objective truth is we're better off losing. We're still in the "Mara needs to be shocked into action" purgatory. We're better off going 0-16 than 4-12, even if the collateral damage is every player on the roster and every coach on the staff including Judge.

Mara has to realize change is needed in the method of operations, and the evidence (Gettleman is still here, foisting Garrett on Judge) doesn't indicate that he yet realizes the extent to which change is needed.
RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
Optimus-NY : 10/15/2020 11:33 am : link
In comment 15009508 Oscar said:
Quote:
Not rooting for it outright, but I think a loss is best. This team has no hope this season and I think a new GM is the priority.

If Jones is the guy he’ll put the team on his back and prove it the remainder of the season. If he’s not the guy then 0-16 is as good an outcome as any, Trevor Lawrence could be a real difference making talent. Best way to stop circling the toilet bowl might be to just get flushed down once and for all and start over.


I feel the same way.
The usual. I'm not a downer but a realist. Over the past  
CT Charlie : 10/15/2020 11:34 am : link
few seasons, I've simply enjoyed our good plays in the moment, knowing that eventually our longer term fortunes will improve. When Saquon made six guys miss, or DJ scrambled for a 15-yard first down, or we pulled off a fake-field goal for a TD (CRAP! almost) I just enjoyed it like eating a great piece of pie. Sweet.
I have no reservations  
Nick in LA : 10/15/2020 11:35 am : link
that this team will win the game. Keeping my expectations low so I am not heartbroken at the end of the day. Wash sucks but we are also a bad football team, I say 50/50.
RE: Though I'll root for a win because I'm a fan  
Sean : 10/15/2020 11:38 am : link
In comment 15009512 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The objective truth is we're better off losing. We're still in the "Mara needs to be shocked into action" purgatory. We're better off going 0-16 than 4-12, even if the collateral damage is every player on the roster and every coach on the staff including Judge.

Mara has to realize change is needed in the method of operations, and the evidence (Gettleman is still here, foisting Garrett on Judge) doesn't indicate that he yet realizes the extent to which change is needed.


I’m not sure major changes will ever happen. Ideally, Mara would step out of all football operations and hire a President of Football Operations, who will then hire a GM. The GM would then report to the President of Football Operations. This separates John & Chris Mara from all football decisions. I never see this happening though. Dallas & Pittsburgh do not have this structure who are both family run.

What I’m rooting for is more simple. Judge shows enough this year where Mara wants him here long term. Gettleman is let go and Mara interviews prospective GM’s who align with Judge’s philosophy. Perhaps someone with prior NE ties.

Judge and the new GM then evaluate the roster honestly. That is the hope. I don’t think it’s impossible.
Giants  
cokeduplt : 10/15/2020 11:42 am : link
Will win and continue to suck the rest of the season
Giants  
cokeduplt : 10/15/2020 11:43 am : link
Will win and continue to suck the rest of the season
I assume we will win  
LG in NYC : 10/15/2020 12:00 pm : link
and further assume no one will really care, or put much stock in it, b/c it is WAS
RE: Giants  
Dnew15 : 10/15/2020 12:01 pm : link
In comment 15009554 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
Will win and continue to suck the rest of the season


Which is probably a worse case scenario.

If the Giants keep losing to everyone but the Redskins and two other BS teams that actually suck worse than the Giants - do they ever hit rock bottom?
First time I bet ON the Giants  
State Your Name : 10/15/2020 12:01 pm : link
since sports betting was legalized in NJ. So I feel strong, to quite strong.
WFT  
Sec 103 : 10/15/2020 12:11 pm : link
Keep the streak alive
Tough game to handicap  
Mike from Ohio : 10/15/2020 12:14 pm : link
The Giants have a shot at winning this one, but in close games the Giants are typically the team that makes the one or two critical mistakes that lead to a loss. I don't expect that to change this week.

There is too much parity in this league for the team to likely end up at 0-16. If they do win a handful of games I just hope they are spread out some and not concentrated at the end of the year. I have this horrible vision of Mara stepping to the podium after the year ends and saying something like "I really liked what I saw the last four games where we went 2-2. I think we have begun to turn the corner and am excited to keep that going next year."
RE: Going to be interesting watching Chase young vs Thomas  
Now Mike in MD : 10/15/2020 12:28 pm : link
In comment 15009478 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
as all Giants fans wanted Young.

This game which they may win could be the fulcrum again for watching WAS select Lawrence and Giants taking a less impactful player.


Tragically, he's been mostly playing on the right side so he'll be going against Fleming. Thomas will mostly be on Sweat
Winning is not as important...  
BamaBlue : 10/15/2020 12:32 pm : link
as consistency. I would like to see this team go wire-to-wire and not have the breakdowns that have made close games the last 7 years losses.
Very optimistic!  
Grey Pilgrim : 10/15/2020 12:35 pm : link
But if we can't win this game then I see a very real possibility that we go 0 and 16.

:sad:
Must win  
HomerJones45 : 10/15/2020 12:38 pm : link
in a new coaching regime. Lose this game and the whispers are going to start if they haven't started already about the HC choice and Dave might as well pack up his office.
RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
allstarjim : 10/15/2020 1:02 pm : link
In comment 15009536 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15009508 Oscar said:


Quote:


Not rooting for it outright, but I think a loss is best. This team has no hope this season and I think a new GM is the priority.

If Jones is the guy he’ll put the team on his back and prove it the remainder of the season. If he’s not the guy then 0-16 is as good an outcome as any, Trevor Lawrence could be a real difference making talent. Best way to stop circling the toilet bowl might be to just get flushed down once and for all and start over.




I feel the same way.


Ditto. The outcome of this season MUST result in us landing Trevor Lawrence. Anything else is a disaster.
.  
GiantEgo : 10/15/2020 1:07 pm : link
So nice to see everyone's agendas freshly aired out in a crisp fall breeze!
RE: RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
Angel Eyes : 10/15/2020 1:07 pm : link
In comment 15009674 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15009536 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15009508 Oscar said:


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Not rooting for it outright, but I think a loss is best. This team has no hope this season and I think a new GM is the priority.

If Jones is the guy he’ll put the team on his back and prove it the remainder of the season. If he’s not the guy then 0-16 is as good an outcome as any, Trevor Lawrence could be a real difference making talent. Best way to stop circling the toilet bowl might be to just get flushed down once and for all and start over.




I feel the same way.



Ditto. The outcome of this season MUST result in us landing Trevor Lawrence. Anything else is a disaster.

Aren't there other places we need to shore up?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
allstarjim : 10/15/2020 1:26 pm : link
In comment 15009679 Angel Eyes said:
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In comment 15009674 allstarjim said:


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In comment 15009536 Optimus-NY said:


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In comment 15009508 Oscar said:


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Not rooting for it outright, but I think a loss is best. This team has no hope this season and I think a new GM is the priority.

If Jones is the guy he’ll put the team on his back and prove it the remainder of the season. If he’s not the guy then 0-16 is as good an outcome as any, Trevor Lawrence could be a real difference making talent. Best way to stop circling the toilet bowl might be to just get flushed down once and for all and start over.




I feel the same way.



Ditto. The outcome of this season MUST result in us landing Trevor Lawrence. Anything else is a disaster.


Aren't there other places we need to shore up?


So. Friggin. What.

You'd shore up those positions for what...a 3 win improvement? Do you want long-term mediocrity or do you want a perennial playoff contender?

You know what? Seattle has positions to shore up. They're 5-0. The undefeated Packers have positions to shore up. But those teams have Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. The Chiefs will be a threat and dominate that division as long as Mahomes is there and he has his movement ability. There's a reason the Colts under Peyton Manning won the division almost every single season (the reason was Peyton Manning).

Daniel Jones is unlikely to ever be at that level. You can continue plugging holes (that will never stop), or you can draft a true difference maker that will put your team among the elite of the NFL for a decade plus. Your call.


I think they win  
ron mexico : 10/15/2020 1:31 pm : link
Followed up by a crushing loss vs philly.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
Angel Eyes : 10/15/2020 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15009699 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15009679 Angel Eyes said:


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In comment 15009674 allstarjim said:


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In comment 15009536 Optimus-NY said:


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In comment 15009508 Oscar said:


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Not rooting for it outright, but I think a loss is best. This team has no hope this season and I think a new GM is the priority.

If Jones is the guy he’ll put the team on his back and prove it the remainder of the season. If he’s not the guy then 0-16 is as good an outcome as any, Trevor Lawrence could be a real difference making talent. Best way to stop circling the toilet bowl might be to just get flushed down once and for all and start over.




I feel the same way.



Ditto. The outcome of this season MUST result in us landing Trevor Lawrence. Anything else is a disaster.


Aren't there other places we need to shore up?



So. Friggin. What.

You'd shore up those positions for what...a 3 win improvement? Do you want long-term mediocrity or do you want a perennial playoff contender?

You know what? Seattle has positions to shore up. They're 5-0. The undefeated Packers have positions to shore up. But those teams have Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. The Chiefs will be a threat and dominate that division as long as Mahomes is there and he has his movement ability. There's a reason the Colts under Peyton Manning won the division almost every single season (the reason was Peyton Manning).

Daniel Jones is unlikely to ever be at that level. You can continue plugging holes (that will never stop), or you can draft a true difference maker that will put your team among the elite of the NFL for a decade plus. Your call.


You can win with a competent if not top-tier QB; guys like Terry Bradshaw weren't the greatest QBs of their time. It took six years for him to really gel in their system.

The Giants need a pass rush. Plain and simple, they've never gone anywhere without a strong pass rush/edge defenders. Guys like Lawrence Taylor, Leonard Marshall, Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Justin Tuck, even JPP. We practically dismantled our pass rush in 2018 and we've been bottom of the barrel since.
I dont think its an auto win  
BH28 : 10/15/2020 1:36 pm : link
Rivera is a much better coach than Gruden. As we have seen, coaching makes a difference. We already got worked by one back-up QB this year.

As stated above, their D line is built to destroy our o-line. I can see a close game like the Rams.
as bad as this place is now  
bc4life : 10/15/2020 1:42 pm : link
if they lose.....
Should win  
pjcas18 : 10/15/2020 1:43 pm : link
will probably lose.

that's how I feel.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
allstarjim : 10/15/2020 1:49 pm : link
In comment 15009710 Angel Eyes said:
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In comment 15009699 allstarjim said:


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In comment 15009679 Angel Eyes said:


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In comment 15009674 allstarjim said:


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In comment 15009536 Optimus-NY said:


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In comment 15009508 Oscar said:


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Not rooting for it outright, but I think a loss is best. This team has no hope this season and I think a new GM is the priority.

If Jones is the guy he’ll put the team on his back and prove it the remainder of the season. If he’s not the guy then 0-16 is as good an outcome as any, Trevor Lawrence could be a real difference making talent. Best way to stop circling the toilet bowl might be to just get flushed down once and for all and start over.




I feel the same way.



Ditto. The outcome of this season MUST result in us landing Trevor Lawrence. Anything else is a disaster.


Aren't there other places we need to shore up?



So. Friggin. What.

You'd shore up those positions for what...a 3 win improvement? Do you want long-term mediocrity or do you want a perennial playoff contender?

You know what? Seattle has positions to shore up. They're 5-0. The undefeated Packers have positions to shore up. But those teams have Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. The Chiefs will be a threat and dominate that division as long as Mahomes is there and he has his movement ability. There's a reason the Colts under Peyton Manning won the division almost every single season (the reason was Peyton Manning).

Daniel Jones is unlikely to ever be at that level. You can continue plugging holes (that will never stop), or you can draft a true difference maker that will put your team among the elite of the NFL for a decade plus. Your call.




You can win with a competent if not top-tier QB; guys like Terry Bradshaw weren't the greatest QBs of their time. It took six years for him to really gel in their system.

The Giants need a pass rush. Plain and simple, they've never gone anywhere without a strong pass rush/edge defenders. Guys like Lawrence Taylor, Leonard Marshall, Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Justin Tuck, even JPP. We practically dismantled our pass rush in 2018 and we've been bottom of the barrel since.


I'm going to just pause and let you reflect on that Terry Bradshaw example and tell me at least 4 reasons why it's a terrible one.

And of COURSE you can win with EVERYTHING else in place. But the point is, that doesn't happen often. You are always plugging new holes, and that's not even counting the injury effect. There is no substitute for an elite QB in this era. You do not pass on Michael Jordan because you have Danny Ainge.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
GoDeep13 : 10/15/2020 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15009699 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15009679 Angel Eyes said:


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In comment 15009674 allstarjim said:


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In comment 15009536 Optimus-NY said:


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In comment 15009508 Oscar said:


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Not rooting for it outright, but I think a loss is best. This team has no hope this season and I think a new GM is the priority.

If Jones is the guy he’ll put the team on his back and prove it the remainder of the season. If he’s not the guy then 0-16 is as good an outcome as any, Trevor Lawrence could be a real difference making talent. Best way to stop circling the toilet bowl might be to just get flushed down once and for all and start over.




I feel the same way.



Ditto. The outcome of this season MUST result in us landing Trevor Lawrence. Anything else is a disaster.


Aren't there other places we need to shore up?



So. Friggin. What.

You'd shore up those positions for what...a 3 win improvement? Do you want long-term mediocrity or do you want a perennial playoff contender?

You know what? Seattle has positions to shore up. They're 5-0. The undefeated Packers have positions to shore up. But those teams have Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. The Chiefs will be a threat and dominate that division as long as Mahomes is there and he has his movement ability. There's a reason the Colts under Peyton Manning won the division almost every single season (the reason was Peyton Manning).

Daniel Jones is unlikely to ever be at that level. You can continue plugging holes (that will never stop), or you can draft a true difference maker that will put your team among the elite of the NFL for a decade plus. Your call.

the Cheifs Have Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, and Sammy Watkins. The Seahawks have Tyler Lockett, DK Metcalf, and Greg Olson. Aaron Rodgers has Devante Adams, Aaron Jones, a good offensive line and defense. The idea these teams are only getting by because of the QB position is ridiculous.
I just dont care about this game.  
Dinger : 10/15/2020 2:02 pm : link
If they win its not a great accomplishment. The lines need to progress, DJ needs to progress and the Defense needs to show it can dominate an opponent who is struggling on offense. If they lose, its NOT GOOD. This team right now is finding ways to lose. They need to win. I will be at my sons soccer game and will DVR and POSSIBLY watch it afterwards. I hope that more an more Giants fans do the same until somehow Mara gets the message that he needs to make serious changes to the way he runs his business.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
Angel Eyes : 10/15/2020 2:05 pm : link
In comment 15009737 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15009710 Angel Eyes said:


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In comment 15009699 allstarjim said:


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In comment 15009679 Angel Eyes said:


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In comment 15009674 allstarjim said:


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In comment 15009536 Optimus-NY said:


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In comment 15009508 Oscar said:


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Not rooting for it outright, but I think a loss is best. This team has no hope this season and I think a new GM is the priority.

If Jones is the guy he’ll put the team on his back and prove it the remainder of the season. If he’s not the guy then 0-16 is as good an outcome as any, Trevor Lawrence could be a real difference making talent. Best way to stop circling the toilet bowl might be to just get flushed down once and for all and start over.




I feel the same way.



Ditto. The outcome of this season MUST result in us landing Trevor Lawrence. Anything else is a disaster.


Aren't there other places we need to shore up?



So. Friggin. What.

You'd shore up those positions for what...a 3 win improvement? Do you want long-term mediocrity or do you want a perennial playoff contender?

You know what? Seattle has positions to shore up. They're 5-0. The undefeated Packers have positions to shore up. But those teams have Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. The Chiefs will be a threat and dominate that division as long as Mahomes is there and he has his movement ability. There's a reason the Colts under Peyton Manning won the division almost every single season (the reason was Peyton Manning).

Daniel Jones is unlikely to ever be at that level. You can continue plugging holes (that will never stop), or you can draft a true difference maker that will put your team among the elite of the NFL for a decade plus. Your call.




You can win with a competent if not top-tier QB; guys like Terry Bradshaw weren't the greatest QBs of their time. It took six years for him to really gel in their system.

The Giants need a pass rush. Plain and simple, they've never gone anywhere without a strong pass rush/edge defenders. Guys like Lawrence Taylor, Leonard Marshall, Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Justin Tuck, even JPP. We practically dismantled our pass rush in 2018 and we've been bottom of the barrel since.



I'm going to just pause and let you reflect on that Terry Bradshaw example and tell me at least 4 reasons why it's a terrible one.

And of COURSE you can win with EVERYTHING else in place. But the point is, that doesn't happen often. You are always plugging new holes, and that's not even counting the injury effect. There is no substitute for an elite QB in this era. You do not pass on Michael Jordan because you have Danny Ainge.

The Giants passed on Reggie White for Gary Zimmerman. It backfired because Zimmerman didn't want to play in New York, while White become one of the greatest DEs in NFL history.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
santacruzom : 10/15/2020 2:06 pm : link
In comment 15009754 GoDeep13 said:
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the Cheifs Have Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, and Sammy Watkins. The Seahawks have Tyler Lockett, DK Metcalf, and Greg Olson. Aaron Rodgers has Devante Adams, Aaron Jones, a good offensive line and defense. The idea these teams are only getting by because of the QB position is ridiculous.


That's true, but the Packers can lose Adams for a game or two and still get 3 TDs from some random tight end because Aaron Rodgers is a stud. Mahomes can lose Watkins and Hill and still throw TDs to Demarcus Robinson because he is also a stud. Etc.

An elite quarterback might be the scariest entity to face off against in all of sports. I don't know nearly enough about college football to know if Trevor Lawrence is likely to become one in the NFL, but if the general consensus is that he is, and we've got the first overall pick, it's very probable that he'd be an upgrade over the QB that in part contributed to our league-worst record.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
GoDeep13 : 10/15/2020 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15009763 santacruzom said:
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In comment 15009754 GoDeep13 said:


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the Cheifs Have Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, and Sammy Watkins. The Seahawks have Tyler Lockett, DK Metcalf, and Greg Olson. Aaron Rodgers has Devante Adams, Aaron Jones, a good offensive line and defense. The idea these teams are only getting by because of the QB position is ridiculous.



That's true, but the Packers can lose Adams for a game or two and still get 3 TDs from some random tight end because Aaron Rodgers is a stud. Mahomes can lose Watkins and Hill and still throw TDs to Demarcus Robinson because he is also a stud. Etc.

An elite quarterback might be the scariest entity to face off against in all of sports. I don't know nearly enough about college football to know if Trevor Lawrence is likely to become one in the NFL, but if the general consensus is that he is, and we've got the first overall pick, it's very probable that he'd be an upgrade over the QB that in part contributed to our league-worst record.
Aaron Rodgers is an outlier QB. And games where he doesn’t have Adams, AAron Jones is giving them 100+ yards and 2-3 TDs. When has Mahomes been down both Sammy Watkins and Tyreek Hill he may not have had one or the other but he still had one w/ Kelce or both with no Kelce. And he still has Andy Reid drawing up plays.
We need a win at this point  
Simms11 : 10/15/2020 2:16 pm : link
It doesn’t matter who it’s against. In fact Washington is a much better team then in the past, especially with Alex Smith behind Center and their front 7 is also very stout. Again, not an easy game, not like any are, but this isn’t a slam dunk and the state of our Offense, especially with Slayton now dinged up does not bode well for a win.
This team is too devoid of talent  
Snacks : 10/15/2020 2:17 pm : link
to worry about winning each week.

We are going nowhere this year. What i'm looking for as the weeks go by is improvement from the young guys who are going to be a part of this rebuild.

I want to see this coaching staff develop talent SOMEWHERE.

I'm tired of feeling like we draft guys and they have already hit their ceiling because they don't develop.

Maybe i'm wrong, but it sure feels that way.


RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
allstarjim : 10/15/2020 2:38 pm : link
In comment 15009762 Angel Eyes said:
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Not rooting for it outright, but I think a loss is best. This team has no hope this season and I think a new GM is the priority.

If Jones is the guy he’ll put the team on his back and prove it the remainder of the season. If he’s not the guy then 0-16 is as good an outcome as any, Trevor Lawrence could be a real difference making talent. Best way to stop circling the toilet bowl might be to just get flushed down once and for all and start over.




I feel the same way.



Ditto. The outcome of this season MUST result in us landing Trevor Lawrence. Anything else is a disaster.


Aren't there other places we need to shore up?



So. Friggin. What.

You'd shore up those positions for what...a 3 win improvement? Do you want long-term mediocrity or do you want a perennial playoff contender?

You know what? Seattle has positions to shore up. They're 5-0. The undefeated Packers have positions to shore up. But those teams have Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. The Chiefs will be a threat and dominate that division as long as Mahomes is there and he has his movement ability. There's a reason the Colts under Peyton Manning won the division almost every single season (the reason was Peyton Manning).

Daniel Jones is unlikely to ever be at that level. You can continue plugging holes (that will never stop), or you can draft a true difference maker that will put your team among the elite of the NFL for a decade plus. Your call.




You can win with a competent if not top-tier QB; guys like Terry Bradshaw weren't the greatest QBs of their time. It took six years for him to really gel in their system.

The Giants need a pass rush. Plain and simple, they've never gone anywhere without a strong pass rush/edge defenders. Guys like Lawrence Taylor, Leonard Marshall, Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Justin Tuck, even JPP. We practically dismantled our pass rush in 2018 and we've been bottom of the barrel since.



I'm going to just pause and let you reflect on that Terry Bradshaw example and tell me at least 4 reasons why it's a terrible one.

And of COURSE you can win with EVERYTHING else in place. But the point is, that doesn't happen often. You are always plugging new holes, and that's not even counting the injury effect. There is no substitute for an elite QB in this era. You do not pass on Michael Jordan because you have Danny Ainge.


The Giants passed on Reggie White for Gary Zimmerman. It backfired because Zimmerman didn't want to play in New York, while White become one of the greatest DEs in NFL history.


You're making my point for me. Trevor Lawrence IS they guy you don't pass on in this draft.
RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
allstarjim : 10/15/2020 2:52 pm : link
In comment 15009768 GoDeep13 said:
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In comment 15009754 GoDeep13 said:


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Aaron Rodgers is an outlier QB. And games where he doesn’t have Adams, AAron Jones is giving them 100+ yards and 2-3 TDs. When has Mahomes been down both Sammy Watkins and Tyreek Hill he may not have had one or the other but he still had one w/ Kelce or both with no Kelce. And he still has Andy Reid drawing up plays.


Yeah that makes sense, Mahomes and Rodgers are just functions of the talent around them.



You do realize Rodgers has won without all of those guys, right? Those are all interchangeable parts, Rodgers will still win. It's that way for all the elite QBs.

And yes, they are outliers. That's what the goal is here, to get the outlier QB. That's what you want to do when you're picking #1.

Not taking Lawrence in this draft if we have the chance to is criminal. Some of you guys would've drafted Sam Bowie, too. JFC.
Likely the biggest game of the season if you're all in on Lawrence  
The_Boss : 10/15/2020 3:15 pm : link
It's a must lose...very similar to the Chase Young bowl last December 22.

How fitting would it be if the game ends with the NYG down 4 late in the 4th...Jones driving...Chase Young obliterates Andrew Thomas en route to destroying Daniel Jones, forcing yet another fumble which Washington recovers to secure the win?
RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
Producer : 10/15/2020 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15009799 allstarjim said:
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Aaron Rodgers is an outlier QB. And games where he doesn’t have Adams, AAron Jones is giving them 100+ yards and 2-3 TDs. When has Mahomes been down both Sammy Watkins and Tyreek Hill he may not have had one or the other but he still had one w/ Kelce or both with no Kelce. And he still has Andy Reid drawing up plays.



Yeah that makes sense, Mahomes and Rodgers are just functions of the talent around them.



You do realize Rodgers has won without all of those guys, right? Those are all interchangeable parts, Rodgers will still win. It's that way for all the elite QBs.

And yes, they are outliers. That's what the goal is here, to get the outlier QB. That's what you want to do when you're picking #1.

Not taking Lawrence in this draft if we have the chance to is criminal. Some of you guys would've drafted Sam Bowie, too. JFC.


A thousand fucking percent. The goal of every team in the NFL is to obtain one of the top QBs if one is available to them. Lawrence appears to be on that trajectory. To pass on him because we might have a decent game manager (and maybe not even that) is criminal indeed.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
Producer : 10/15/2020 3:21 pm : link
In comment 15009768 GoDeep13 said:
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In comment 15009763 santacruzom said:


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In comment 15009754 GoDeep13 said:


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the Cheifs Have Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, and Sammy Watkins. The Seahawks have Tyler Lockett, DK Metcalf, and Greg Olson. Aaron Rodgers has Devante Adams, Aaron Jones, a good offensive line and defense. The idea these teams are only getting by because of the QB position is ridiculous.



That's true, but the Packers can lose Adams for a game or two and still get 3 TDs from some random tight end because Aaron Rodgers is a stud. Mahomes can lose Watkins and Hill and still throw TDs to Demarcus Robinson because he is also a stud. Etc.

An elite quarterback might be the scariest entity to face off against in all of sports. I don't know nearly enough about college football to know if Trevor Lawrence is likely to become one in the NFL, but if the general consensus is that he is, and we've got the first overall pick, it's very probable that he'd be an upgrade over the QB that in part contributed to our league-worst record.

Aaron Rodgers is an outlier QB. And games where he doesn’t have Adams, AAron Jones is giving them 100+ yards and 2-3 TDs. When has Mahomes been down both Sammy Watkins and Tyreek Hill he may not have had one or the other but he still had one w/ Kelce or both with no Kelce. And he still has Andy Reid drawing up plays.


If you look at Daniel Jones and say to yourself the only difference between him and Aaron Rodgers is Devonte Adams, you need to watch more tape.
must win game  
rocco8112 : 10/15/2020 3:31 pm : link
.

Drop this one or get rolled and it will get ugly
Back to Rodgers for a second  
allstarjim : 10/15/2020 3:31 pm : link
Since his 2nd season as starter for the Packers (2009), he's *111-50-1. With one losing season in that timeframe.

All other starters for the Pack during that time are *6-12-1.

*Full disclosure, two of those actual starts for Rodgers I included in the backups ledger because they were games that Rodgers was injured very early in the first quarter and did not return.

Point is the same however you evaluate the numbers...same personnel on those Packers teams...they lose without Rodgers, they win with him.

If Mahomes was injured tomorrow and had to miss games, while Hill and Kelce, et al would help, they would likely be a losing team.
I don't care.  
darktimes : 10/15/2020 3:53 pm : link
I really don't care one way or another. I'll probably root for a loss up until kickoff and then root for a win. Then after the game when we lose, I'll probably be happy about it.

This team has been such shit, and has made so many terrible decisions that I have such apathy for a franchise that I've spent so much energy and passion on over the nearly last 4 decades.
Still struggling running the ball and can't protect  
LBH15 : 10/15/2020 4:01 pm : link
QB from edge rushers. Bad combination that results in too many stressful third downs for DJ.

No reason to just assume Giants will win any game until the above changes.

I'm so hyped about this game  
Gman11 : 10/15/2020 4:08 pm : link
I'm going to go play hockey.
RE: I'm so hyped about this game  
uther99 : 10/15/2020 4:12 pm : link
In comment 15009858 Gman11 said:
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I'm going to go play hockey.


ha, yard work here
RE: RE: Giants  
cokeduplt : 10/15/2020 4:35 pm : link
In comment 15009588 Dnew15 said:
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Will win and continue to suck the rest of the season



Which is probably a worse case scenario.

If the Giants keep losing to everyone but the Redskins and two other BS teams that actually suck worse than the Giants - do they ever hit rock bottom?


I agree 100%. It feels like last year when we won the all important Chase young game
WSH  
Dragon : 10/15/2020 5:03 pm : link
Has a DL designed to rush the passer even more so than any team we’ve seen to this point. The Giants OL is still trying to figure out WTH is an OL supposed to look like and do this could be Custer’s last stand once again.

Now to the biggest story within the game for Giants fans going forward Lawrence has a knee, Slayton has a foot these are two core players for our future will they protect them or play them for an 0-5, team?

It’s a stepping stone game lose 0-6, been there done that I don’t see any real talent difference in the players for the last several years we still have like eight to ten decent players. Giants as a team are professional teasers but always on the short end miraculously game after game. We lack game changing players how do we keep staying devoid of these guys year after year? Yet we keep sending out players that have no future with this team and are not exactly even special players.
Washington  
Dragon : 10/15/2020 5:05 pm : link
Has a DL designed to rush the passer even more so than any team we’ve seen to this point. The Giants OL is still trying to figure out WTH is an OL supposed to look like and do this could be Custer’s last stand once again.

Now to the biggest story within the game for Giants fans going forward Lawrence has a knee, Slayton has a foot these are two core players for our future will they protect them or play them for an 0-5, team?

It’s a stepping stone game lose 0-6, been there done that I don’t see any real talent difference in the players for the last several years we still have like eight to ten decent players. Giants as a team are professional teasers but always on the short end miraculously game after game. We lack game changing players how do we keep staying devoid of these guys year after year? Yet we keep sending out players that have no future with this team and are not exactly even special players.
Sorry  
Dragon : 10/15/2020 5:06 pm : link
Original error
It's going to be our first win  
montanagiant : 10/15/2020 6:17 pm : link
Of the season
Rooting for a loss  
WillVAB : 10/15/2020 9:01 pm : link
They may win 2 games this year and this is one of them. Empty wins accomplishes absolutely nothing — see last year where a division rival ends up with an elite ER talent and we get Flowers 2.0.
No feeling whatsoever.  
Matt M. : 10/15/2020 9:05 pm : link
This is one of 2 games (the other Washington game being the other) where I feel like we have a legitimate chance to win. But, I am not confident we will win.
Giants win 20-17  
giantstock : 10/15/2020 11:39 pm : link
Washington is awful too. If Kyle Allen starts I expect he'll give game away.

...  
christian : 10/15/2020 11:50 pm : link
It’s really sobering that a team with Kyle Allen at QB, a coach who’s under going treatment for a serious illness, and an offense that literally posted negative yardage over a half of football last week, is a pretty logical threat to beat the Giants.

If the Giants can’t beat Washington, no one from QB, to head coach, to GM is really showing they are ready for the gig they hold.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Familiar feeling but I think I am hoping for a loss  
joeinpa : 10/16/2020 8:28 am : link
In comment 15009710 Angel Eyes said:
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Not rooting for it outright, but I think a loss is best. This team has no hope this season and I think a new GM is the priority.

If Jones is the guy he’ll put the team on his back and prove it the remainder of the season. If he’s not the guy then 0-16 is as good an outcome as any, Trevor Lawrence could be a real difference making talent. Best way to stop circling the toilet bowl might be to just get flushed down once and for all and start over.




I feel the same way.



Ditto. The outcome of this season MUST result in us landing Trevor Lawrence. Anything else is a disaster.


Aren't there other places we need to shore up?



So. Friggin. What.

You'd shore up those positions for what...a 3 win improvement? Do you want long-term mediocrity or do you want a perennial playoff contender?

You know what? Seattle has positions to shore up. They're 5-0. The undefeated Packers have positions to shore up. But those teams have Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. The Chiefs will be a threat and dominate that division as long as Mahomes is there and he has his movement ability. There's a reason the Colts under Peyton Manning won the division almost every single season (the reason was Peyton Manning).

Daniel Jones is unlikely to ever be at that level. You can continue plugging holes (that will never stop), or you can draft a true difference maker that will put your team among the elite of the NFL for a decade plus. Your call.




You can win with a competent if not top-tier QB; guys like Terry Bradshaw weren't the greatest QBs of their time. It took six years for him to really gel in their system.

The Giants need a pass rush. Plain and simple, they've never gone anywhere without a strong pass rush/edge defenders. Guys like Lawrence Taylor, Leonard Marshall, Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Justin Tuck, even JPP. We practically dismantled our pass rush in 2018 and we've been bottom of the barrel since.


Your post in 1 simple sentence identifies why the Giants don’t win.

End of game scenerio: Giants have ball, must pass situation, do you feel confident, I don’t. Why, I know they can’t protect the quarterback.

Reverse roles, i. e. , Cowboys, think Giants are going to get a stop?..... Me either.... Why, no pass rush.



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