Welcome to the party 🎉.. This is an organization that is run just like our NFC East rivals Cowboy and WFT
Quote:
I reluctantly agree. Here’s what bothers me though. Gettleman wasn’t this pathetic in Carolina, so what’s different? The answer I come up with is the organization structure for decision making. Too much input from the Mara’s especially our VP of player personnel. Sadly, this isn’t changing anytime soon.
The Maras were around for Reese too, and while Reese wasn't perfect his tenure want marked by the same string of fireable offenses. I think Gettleman's stupidity and arrogance were a major factor.
I wrote that a lot going into the draft because everyone wanted Haskins on this board or at least a majority. Thankfully Haskins never happened as well as Rosen and Darnold from the previous year. Hopefully we keep Judge and at least get some continuity going forward.
During the 2018 season, DG personally attended at least 2 of Herbert's games, and rumors in the press were Herbert was the guy he wanted; which ended when Herbert chose to stay in school for his Senior year.
During the 2018 season, DG personally attended at least 2 of Herbert's games, and rumors in the press were Herbert was the guy he wanted; which ended when Herbert chose to stay in school for his Senior year.
Attending two games does not mean he intended to draft the guy. Maybe he was scouting other players as well. Rumors again?
That was the word on the street. Gettleman seemed to be enamored with Herbert. I think he went out to Oregon once or twice to watch him play...which is more than he can say about DJ (he only saw DJ at the Senior Bowl)
i think giants scouts were at more then 5 games.
The scouts were, sure. I'm talking about Gettleman specifically.
And Herbert the next year. Instead we settled at QB and our OT has been uninspiring thus far.
If DG is making the picks next year, God help us.
The QB Josh Allen is most interesting debate for me. That is looking like the real miss - choosing SB over him. Allen is THE TYPE of player, with his size and mobility, who looks to have the ability to overcome more offensive deficiencies than most. He is a real play maker...
Allen was a risk. I liked him because his arm and legs reminded me of Terry Bradshaw who had some small success in the NFL. Barkley though was a much safer play in terms of boom or bust.
is turning out to be somewhat of a nothing burger in retrospect imo. Darnold and Rosen have shown squat and Josh Allen is just too much 20/20 hindsight.
Josh Allen, who a team traded up to #7 to draft, who was drafted before Rosen, is too much hindsight?
I'd argue the Bills just have a good GM and a good head coach.
RE: The moment they paid Eli's bonus in March 2019,
drafting Jones should have been off the table. The Giants spent $23M on Eli for four starts and the right to deprive Jones of an off-season of starter's practice reps. Remember then that the narrative was how much Eli could teach Jones. How did that turn out?
The biggest failing of this front office, even worse than talent assessment, has been asset allocation. The decisions have been mystifying:
- Bringing Eli back in 2018
- Signing Beckham and then trading him for less than he could have netted had he been treated a year earlier
- drafting a running back #2 overall
- Bringing Eli back in '19 AND drafting Jones #6 overall
- trading a third rounder for FA-to-be Leonard Williams at 2-6
And each of these moves was accompanied by a dumb-shit soundbyte that became a meme. Dave Gettleman has to be one of the stupidest motherfuckers ever to be an NFL GM.
Damn, i cant disagree with one part of this. This sh#t show is mind numbing....
Allen had accuracy issues going back to high school. If he's fixed those in the NFL that is certainly to his credit, but it's also extremely unusual. He also had a bad collarbone injury in college that had to be fixed with plates and screws.
Completely agree that just because no one on BBI was sold
on Josh Allen isn't an excuse for not getting him. If a QB is obvious he doesn't last until pick #7 and you could certainly say they reached and a lot more with Jones at 6 than Allen would have been at 2. There is an argument to be made that you bring in someone like Shurmur primarily to harness the talent of a player like Allen IMO.
Also it can't be said enough about the sound bites the team gives. A lot is made to downplay them. But some of these statements age so poorly so quickly I'm not sure I've seen anything like it in sports. Even just this past offseason, doubling down on Barkley as an "outlier" and Andrew Thomas as the most NFL ready tackle. After making statements that have already reflected so poorly on you in the past you'd think the Giants would be MORE careful with their words.
You hear people saying things like "it's just being cagey or DG plays it up for the media to mess with them" well that isn't really consistent with the way they do things like justify Jones as the pick where they picked him. That isn't very strategic or confident, they are inconsistent and appear more insecure projecting false confidence than anything.
The way they interact with the public makes their decision making process seem incredibly flawed and it just makes them seem really quite dumb. The fact that they can't even see this part and adjust is astounding.
Terps— Mcadoo did Mara an incredible solid — he provided evidence Geno Smith and Manning were roughly interchangeable. Instead of accepting that hard truth — he fired everyone else and bent himself in a pretzel to get more miles for his favorite player.
I'm fine with moving on after 2017 with Eli or whatever but the big difference in the Geno game was all of sudden it seemed as if Engram decided to demonstrate some sort of effort in showing decent hands. A ton of the plays that got the Giants down field were plays made by Shepard or Engram that they weren't making (or dropping) when Eli was playing.
I made mention about the Engram thing even back then and it may be nothing but his rise in effort during that Raider game definitely had me curious.
That game was boring as fuck so I just may be making it up in my head. Geno also coughed up two fumbles in that game.
RE: A lot of the initial Jones euphoria was based on low expectations.
The supposed draft gurus described Jones as a guy who couldn't throw at the NFL level and would be a mediocre starter, if not a back-up. I was pleasantly surprised to see him slinging it pretty well, even in preseason, but a longer look at him has brought me back down to earth.
+1
But I was never worried about his arm, I was worried about his head... I.E. decision making. Shurmur is a QB wisperer and had an offense that minimized these issues. They are back in full force.
RE: Completely agree that just because no one on BBI was sold
on Josh Allen isn't an excuse for not getting him. If a QB is obvious he doesn't last until pick #7 and you could certainly say they reached and a lot more with Jones at 6 than Allen would have been at 2. There is an argument to be made that you bring in someone like Shurmur primarily to harness the talent of a player like Allen IMO.
Also it can't be said enough about the sound bites the team gives. A lot is made to downplay them. But some of these statements age so poorly so quickly I'm not sure I've seen anything like it in sports. Even just this past offseason, doubling down on Barkley as an "outlier" and Andrew Thomas as the most NFL ready tackle. After making statements that have already reflected so poorly on you in the past you'd think the Giants would be MORE careful with their words.
You hear people saying things like "it's just being cagey or DG plays it up for the media to mess with them" well that isn't really consistent with the way they do things like justify Jones as the pick where they picked him. That isn't very strategic or confident, they are inconsistent and appear more insecure projecting false confidence than anything.
The way they interact with the public makes their decision making process seem incredibly flawed and it just makes them seem really quite dumb. The fact that they can't even see this part and adjust is astounding.
Did the Chargers reach for Herbert at 6? That's what the thread is all about and people bitching we didn't wait for him.
I do think the Giants panicked in that draft. Gaming it out they definitely didn't expect Josh Allen to be there, and then they were furiously working the phones to trade up from 17. There's a poster here, not going to out them because they said they shouldn't have divulged the information, that said DJ was definitely the Broncos target. Considering how they acted in that draft I think it's likely that's not bullshit.
and is dedication to football or am I mis-remembering?. I thought there was talk about his family having money and maybe his heart wasn't into football..
and is dedication to football or am I mis-remembering?. I thought there was talk about his family having money and maybe his heart wasn't into football..
Are you talking about Josh Allen the QB? If so I think you are conflating him with the other Josh... Josh Rosen.
and that no one on BBI that I can recall was sold on him but that doesn't mean the Giants couldn't have seen it. Also, per my other point on this, if someone was going to get the most out of Allen's talent it was Shurmur.
There is an argument to be made that you bring in someone like Shurmur primarily to harness the talent of a player like Allen IMO.
I thought once Shurmur was hired it was a clear indication that the Giants would draft a QB at #2. I guess they figured he could revitalize Eli, but QB at #2 would have made more sense.
There is an argument to be made that you bring in someone like Shurmur primarily to harness the talent of a player like Allen IMO.
I thought once Shurmur was hired it was a clear indication that the Giants would draft a QB at #2. I guess they figured he could revitalize Eli, but QB at #2 would have made more sense.
Yeah and I'm by no means saying we should have picked Darnold or Rosen but given the difference in play between Jones with and without Shurmur, I'm wondering if either of those guys would have different career paths under his tutelage.
Rosen is a guy that seemed like the bright lights might have done well for.
The Jets have been a total disaster but Darnold has flashed some talent and his weapons have been absolutely awful.
I have to say an oddity on BBI is the way so many are willing to trash Darnold while preaching patience for Jones. Darnold's main problem is sloppy play and Jones has had bigger problems with this.
DG completely mismanaged the drafts during his tenure. It’s not about picking players in a vacuum, it’s about having a vision for the roster and utilizing the draft to fulfill that vision. Especially so when you’re rebuilding the roster from the ground up.
The priority from day 1 should’ve been making the OL and DL elite units. The OL could’ve been fixed or close in year 1, and the DL Colbert been fixed or close in year 2. By this year, they would’ve had their QB. They would’ve been set up for long term success, only needed complimentary pieces to be a true contender.
There was no cohesive plan to rebuild this roster. Too many blown resources on corners and safeties. The Barkley pick was idiotic given the state of the OL in real time (Solder, Omameh, Flowers) and the trade value of the pick.
3 years in and the OL is still a disaster and not a single pass rusher worth a shit. So much for “run the ball, stop the run, and rush the passer.”
Terps— Mcadoo did Mara an incredible solid — he provided evidence Geno Smith and Manning were roughly interchangeable. Instead of accepting that hard truth — he fired everyone else and bent himself in a pretzel to get more miles for his favorite player.
Mara put Manning in front of the team. It was selfish.
And when fans wax on about the virtue of it all, it makes me sick. All those other guys on the team deserved an owner and general management that was dead set on winning another championship. Not deifying a guy who had has turn, made his money, and hung his pelts.
OK what? I guess in your inverse reality universe Geno Smith losses a game to a very underachieving Raiders team and yet this is evidence that it was Eli's fault the team was 2-10 and that he needed to be retired? Like what?? No, Geno Smith should have won the game to make your point. Jones should be winning games to make your point that it is Eli that is holding team back. If they suck just the same that means it issomething else
Furthermore the fact this is same shit team as last year -- if not worse -- with even shiitier QB play is evidence yet again of the need to replace Manning and even should have done it sooner in your view?
I guess when people have some stupid idea in their head they can twist the logic around in their own universe to confirm their emotions/ beliefs. It is really just familiarity breeding contempt. I am sick of the Eli Manning channel so how about something shiny and new. Never mind that big suit, pat riley hair, totally sucked as a coach. Never mind that Jones hasn't really shown he can be a starting NFL qb not in his rookie year any more, and never mind that this team better hope none of the teams get covid and Sunday's game cancelled; otherwise jones might not throw a TD again for a awhile and the Giants are Washington's only chance at actually winning a game all year. But yeah throw that bum Eli out with no system in place ; shitty over drafted QBs to replace him, and pay him a ton of money to stand on a sideline and watch them lose just the same.
Very disapointed that he stayed in college to play with brother but understandable.
Also wanted Josh Allen.....wanted no part of Haskins. There was too much talent at Ohio St....and at his pro day, being out of shape was a major red flag.
My concern for QB lawrence stems from Clemson being too good. Its men against boys...he seems to have all the tools, but not tested.....
Still holding out hope for Daniel and Thomas....love Barkley and Dexter Lawrence....
Denver and Washington liked Jones a lot. Have to think that either of them take him if we didn't at 6.
Now, remains to be seen if DG made the right choice. But...if we all recall, majority of BBI wanted a quarterback. Lock was high up there on a ton of posters here. It turns out, Jones is a lot farther along right now than Lock is.
Gettleman speaks in April 2019 interview about picking Daniel Jones
"In three years, we'll find out how crazy I am," Gettleman told NBC Sports' Peter King. ... "The bottom line is, I have confidence in what I do and who I am. I've been a part of organizations that had pretty good quarterbacks -- Jim Kelly, John Elway, Kerry Collins, Eli Manning, Cam Newton.
"I've led a charmed life with the quarterbacks on the teams I've worked for. I know what good ones look like. The other thing is, résumés matter. Every once in a while, I wish the people taking the shots would take a minute to look at my résumé. I've been a part of teams that went to seven Super Bowls. I had a hand in some of them. But today, there's no patience. And there's no room for civil discourse in our society, which I find sad."
Denver and Washington liked Jones a lot. Have to think that either of them take him if we didn't at 6.
Now, remains to be seen if DG made the right choice. But...if we all recall, majority of BBI wanted a quarterback. Lock was high up there on a ton of posters here. It turns out, Jones is a lot farther along right now than Lock is.
How is Jones “a lot further along” than Lock? Because he’s played more games?
Lock has actually played no worse than Jones. And with his arm talent, to me, has much more upside.
To this day still one of his more arrogant comments.
Being a scout for the bills while they had Jim Kelly, and inheriting Cam Newton in no way indicates that you get the magic touch with evaluating the hardest position to fill in pro sports. Ernie Accorsi gets to talk like this. Probably not Gettleman.
Denver and Washington liked Jones a lot. Have to think that either of them take him if we didn't at 6.
Now, remains to be seen if DG made the right choice. But...if we all recall, majority of BBI wanted a quarterback. Lock was high up there on a ton of posters here. It turns out, Jones is a lot farther along right now than Lock is.
Yeah, not so fast.
It's also been very widely reported that Haskins was the Washington pick if he was available all along because that is what the Owner demanded.
Also, rumors about Denver and Daniel Jones are very mixed. He had a private workout with Broncos pre-draft but they were also linked a good bit to favoring Drew Lock for their system. Further, other reports indicated they were always very interested in trading down in the draft to get more picks but also because they thought either QB above would still be available later in Rd 1 or possibly Rd 2 if they pulled the trigger on a QB.
RE: To this day still one of his more arrogant comments.
Being a scout for the bills while they had Jim Kelly, and inheriting Cam Newton in no way indicates that you get the magic touch with evaluating the hardest position to fill in pro sports. Ernie Accorsi gets to talk like this. Probably not Gettleman.
I always loved how he went from check out my resume to civil discourse in our society in a few seconds.
It's also been very widely reported that Haskins was the Washington pick if he was available all along because that is what the Owner demanded.
Also, rumors about Denver and Daniel Jones are very mixed. He had a private workout with Broncos pre-draft but they were also linked a good bit to favoring Drew Lock for their system. Further, other reports indicated they were always very interested in trading down in the draft to get more picks but also because they thought either QB above would still be available later in Rd 1 or possibly Rd 2 if they pulled the trigger on a QB.
Peter King was in the Broncos draft room and reported that Lock was Elway's guy. In fact, King had a mock draft prior to the 2018 draft where he predicted the Broncos would trade up to get Lock if he fell in the draft. Do you think King didn't know something? But because so many Gettleman supporters wanted Resume to be right about Jones they drank the Kool Aid when Resume said he knew "for a fact more than one team" wanted Jones.
And Haskins was definitely the WFT pick. Snyder's son played football with Haskins in high school at The Bullis School in Potomac, MD. So there was a deep local tie...
"In three years, we'll find out how crazy I am," Gettleman told NBC Sports' Peter King. ... "The bottom line is, I have confidence in what I do and who I am. I've been a part of organizations that had pretty good quarterbacks -- Jim Kelly, John Elway, Kerry Collins, Eli Manning, Cam Newton.
"I've led a charmed life with the quarterbacks on the teams I've worked for. I know what good ones look like. The other thing is, résumés matter. Every once in a while, I wish the people taking the shots would take a minute to look at my résumé. I've been a part of teams that went to seven Super Bowls. I had a hand in some of them. But today, there's no patience. And there's no room for civil discourse in our society, which I find sad."
Hence, Resume Dave.
I'll never forget reading that. Another gem among many...
It's also been very widely reported that Haskins was the Washington pick if he was available all along because that is what the Owner demanded.
Also, rumors about Denver and Daniel Jones are very mixed. He had a private workout with Broncos pre-draft but they were also linked a good bit to favoring Drew Lock for their system. Further, other reports indicated they were always very interested in trading down in the draft to get more picks but also because they thought either QB above would still be available later in Rd 1 or possibly Rd 2 if they pulled the trigger on a QB.
Peter King was in the Broncos draft room and reported that Lock was Elway's guy. In fact, King had a mock draft prior to the 2018 draft where he predicted the Broncos would trade up to get Lock if he fell in the draft. Do you think King didn't know something? But because so many Gettleman supporters wanted Resume to be right about Jones they drank the Kool Aid when Resume said he knew "for a fact more than one team" wanted Jones.
And Haskins was definitely the WFT pick. Snyder's son played football with Haskins in high school at The Bullis School in Potomac, MD. So there was a deep local tie...
Too many posters here point to fact that Denver traded down right after Jones was picked as confirmation he was there guy.
But reality is Pitt had accumulated a bunch of picks before the draft and wanted to use some of them to move up in Rd 1. And as mentioned, Denver had leaked they could be in favor of a trade down strategy to grab an extra player(s) while expecting a desirable QB to be available later in the draft. The two teams just really accomplished their goals.
Denver and Washington liked Jones a lot. Have to think that either of them take him if we didn't at 6.
Now, remains to be seen if DG made the right choice. But...if we all recall, majority of BBI wanted a quarterback. Lock was high up there on a ton of posters here. It turns out, Jones is a lot farther along right now than Lock is.
Check out the thread on Giants favored for first time. Pete44 made a nice post about Bram Weinstein, who was WFT beat reporter. he said the WFT was never going to draft Jones even though the coaches wanted him..
RE: Gettleman speaks in April 2019 interview about picking Daniel Jones
"In three years, we'll find out how crazy I am," Gettleman told NBC Sports' Peter King. ... "The bottom line is, I have confidence in what I do and who I am. I've been a part of organizations that had pretty good quarterbacks -- Jim Kelly, John Elway, Kerry Collins, Eli Manning, Cam Newton.
"I've led a charmed life with the quarterbacks on the teams I've worked for. I know what good ones look like. The other thing is, résumés matter. Every once in a while, I wish the people taking the shots would take a minute to look at my résumé. I've been a part of teams that went to seven Super Bowls. I had a hand in some of them. But today, there's no patience. And there's no room for civil discourse in our society, which I find sad."
This is such a typical boomer comment lol
RE: Gettleman speaks in April 2019 interview about picking Daniel Jones
"In three years, we'll find out how crazy I am," Gettleman told NBC Sports' Peter King. ... "The bottom line is, I have confidence in what I do and who I am. I've been a part of organizations that had pretty good quarterbacks -- Jim Kelly, John Elway, Kerry Collins, Eli Manning, Cam Newton.
"I've led a charmed life with the quarterbacks on the teams I've worked for. I know what good ones look like. The other thing is, résumés matter. Every once in a while, I wish the people taking the shots would take a minute to look at my résumé. I've been a part of teams that went to seven Super Bowls. I had a hand in some of them. But today, there's no patience. And there's no room for civil discourse in our society, which I find sad."
Damn I had never seen this full quote, only gotten the gist from seeing it referenced, SMH.
It's crazy the extent the Giants are willing to go through the cycle of (picking a player higher than they know the rest of the league is on them, build up these stories trying to justify the reach, not change their scouting department significantly). When the rest of the league proves to do things better than you and you continue to think you have some angle, that's a level of stupidity and arrogance that is baffling.
Check out the thread on Giants favored for first time. Pete44 made a nice post about Bram Weinstein, who was WFT beat reporter. he said the WFT was never going to draft Jones even though the coaches wanted him..
GMan...Snyder was making the pick if Haskins was still on the board. From what I heard, he was elated when the Giants passed on Haskins for Jones.
Terps— Mcadoo did Mara an incredible solid — he provided evidence Geno Smith and Manning were roughly interchangeable. Instead of accepting that hard truth — he fired everyone else and bent himself in a pretzel to get more miles for his favorite player.
Mara put Manning in front of the team. It was selfish.
And when fans wax on about the virtue of it all, it makes me sick. All those other guys on the team deserved an owner and general management that was dead set on winning another championship. Not deifying a guy who had has turn, made his money, and hung his pelts.
I'm as big an Eli fan as anyone, but this is 100% true.
Is it really true ? Reese's jags who are now playing arena league after Gettl cleaned house deserved better ?
We now have Gettl's jags who are similarly bound for arena league but I guess they deserve better too?
But yea I guess since Eli can't take what was a pretty much average to above average roster and put him on his back and win a SB any more that means he is pretty much as useful as Geno Smith ???? um k.
Fucking Dave....worst GM in all of North American professional sports...
Welcome to the party 🎉.. This is an organization that is run just like our NFC East rivals Cowboy and WFT
Quote:
I reluctantly agree. Here’s what bothers me though. Gettleman wasn’t this pathetic in Carolina, so what’s different? The answer I come up with is the organization structure for decision making. Too much input from the Mara’s especially our VP of player personnel. Sadly, this isn’t changing anytime soon.
The Maras were around for Reese too, and while Reese wasn't perfect his tenure want marked by the same string of fireable offenses. I think Gettleman's stupidity and arrogance were a major factor.
Attending two games does not mean he intended to draft the guy. Maybe he was scouting other players as well. Rumors again?
Quote:
That was the word on the street. Gettleman seemed to be enamored with Herbert. I think he went out to Oregon once or twice to watch him play...which is more than he can say about DJ (he only saw DJ at the Senior Bowl)
i think giants scouts were at more then 5 games.
The scouts were, sure. I'm talking about Gettleman specifically.
Quote:
And Herbert the next year. Instead we settled at QB and our OT has been uninspiring thus far.
If DG is making the picks next year, God help us.
The QB Josh Allen is most interesting debate for me. That is looking like the real miss - choosing SB over him. Allen is THE TYPE of player, with his size and mobility, who looks to have the ability to overcome more offensive deficiencies than most. He is a real play maker...
Josh Allen, who a team traded up to #7 to draft, who was drafted before Rosen, is too much hindsight?
I'd argue the Bills just have a good GM and a good head coach.
The biggest failing of this front office, even worse than talent assessment, has been asset allocation. The decisions have been mystifying:
- Bringing Eli back in 2018
- Signing Beckham and then trading him for less than he could have netted had he been treated a year earlier
- drafting a running back #2 overall
- Bringing Eli back in '19 AND drafting Jones #6 overall
- trading a third rounder for FA-to-be Leonard Williams at 2-6
And each of these moves was accompanied by a dumb-shit soundbyte that became a meme. Dave Gettleman has to be one of the stupidest motherfuckers ever to be an NFL GM.
Damn, i cant disagree with one part of this. This sh#t show is mind numbing....
Lol. Good post.
Also it can't be said enough about the sound bites the team gives. A lot is made to downplay them. But some of these statements age so poorly so quickly I'm not sure I've seen anything like it in sports. Even just this past offseason, doubling down on Barkley as an "outlier" and Andrew Thomas as the most NFL ready tackle. After making statements that have already reflected so poorly on you in the past you'd think the Giants would be MORE careful with their words.
You hear people saying things like "it's just being cagey or DG plays it up for the media to mess with them" well that isn't really consistent with the way they do things like justify Jones as the pick where they picked him. That isn't very strategic or confident, they are inconsistent and appear more insecure projecting false confidence than anything.
The way they interact with the public makes their decision making process seem incredibly flawed and it just makes them seem really quite dumb. The fact that they can't even see this part and adjust is astounding.
I'm fine with moving on after 2017 with Eli or whatever but the big difference in the Geno game was all of sudden it seemed as if Engram decided to demonstrate some sort of effort in showing decent hands. A ton of the plays that got the Giants down field were plays made by Shepard or Engram that they weren't making (or dropping) when Eli was playing.
I made mention about the Engram thing even back then and it may be nothing but his rise in effort during that Raider game definitely had me curious.
That game was boring as fuck so I just may be making it up in my head. Geno also coughed up two fumbles in that game.
+1
But I was never worried about his arm, I was worried about his head... I.E. decision making. Shurmur is a QB wisperer and had an offense that minimized these issues. They are back in full force.
Also it can't be said enough about the sound bites the team gives. A lot is made to downplay them. But some of these statements age so poorly so quickly I'm not sure I've seen anything like it in sports. Even just this past offseason, doubling down on Barkley as an "outlier" and Andrew Thomas as the most NFL ready tackle. After making statements that have already reflected so poorly on you in the past you'd think the Giants would be MORE careful with their words.
You hear people saying things like "it's just being cagey or DG plays it up for the media to mess with them" well that isn't really consistent with the way they do things like justify Jones as the pick where they picked him. That isn't very strategic or confident, they are inconsistent and appear more insecure projecting false confidence than anything.
The way they interact with the public makes their decision making process seem incredibly flawed and it just makes them seem really quite dumb. The fact that they can't even see this part and adjust is astounding.
Did the Chargers reach for Herbert at 6? That's what the thread is all about and people bitching we didn't wait for him.
I do think the Giants panicked in that draft. Gaming it out they definitely didn't expect Josh Allen to be there, and then they were furiously working the phones to trade up from 17. There's a poster here, not going to out them because they said they shouldn't have divulged the information, that said DJ was definitely the Broncos target. Considering how they acted in that draft I think it's likely that's not bullshit.
Are you talking about Josh Allen the QB? If so I think you are conflating him with the other Josh... Josh Rosen.
I thought once Shurmur was hired it was a clear indication that the Giants would draft a QB at #2. I guess they figured he could revitalize Eli, but QB at #2 would have made more sense.
Quote:
There is an argument to be made that you bring in someone like Shurmur primarily to harness the talent of a player like Allen IMO.
I thought once Shurmur was hired it was a clear indication that the Giants would draft a QB at #2. I guess they figured he could revitalize Eli, but QB at #2 would have made more sense.
Yeah and I'm by no means saying we should have picked Darnold or Rosen but given the difference in play between Jones with and without Shurmur, I'm wondering if either of those guys would have different career paths under his tutelage.
Rosen is a guy that seemed like the bright lights might have done well for.
The Jets have been a total disaster but Darnold has flashed some talent and his weapons have been absolutely awful.
I have to say an oddity on BBI is the way so many are willing to trash Darnold while preaching patience for Jones. Darnold's main problem is sloppy play and Jones has had bigger problems with this.
The priority from day 1 should’ve been making the OL and DL elite units. The OL could’ve been fixed or close in year 1, and the DL Colbert been fixed or close in year 2. By this year, they would’ve had their QB. They would’ve been set up for long term success, only needed complimentary pieces to be a true contender.
There was no cohesive plan to rebuild this roster. Too many blown resources on corners and safeties. The Barkley pick was idiotic given the state of the OL in real time (Solder, Omameh, Flowers) and the trade value of the pick.
3 years in and the OL is still a disaster and not a single pass rusher worth a shit. So much for “run the ball, stop the run, and rush the passer.”
Mara put Manning in front of the team. It was selfish.
And when fans wax on about the virtue of it all, it makes me sick. All those other guys on the team deserved an owner and general management that was dead set on winning another championship. Not deifying a guy who had has turn, made his money, and hung his pelts.
OK what? I guess in your inverse reality universe Geno Smith losses a game to a very underachieving Raiders team and yet this is evidence that it was Eli's fault the team was 2-10 and that he needed to be retired? Like what?? No, Geno Smith should have won the game to make your point. Jones should be winning games to make your point that it is Eli that is holding team back. If they suck just the same that means it issomething else
Furthermore the fact this is same shit team as last year -- if not worse -- with even shiitier QB play is evidence yet again of the need to replace Manning and even should have done it sooner in your view?
I guess when people have some stupid idea in their head they can twist the logic around in their own universe to confirm their emotions/ beliefs. It is really just familiarity breeding contempt. I am sick of the Eli Manning channel so how about something shiny and new. Never mind that big suit, pat riley hair, totally sucked as a coach. Never mind that Jones hasn't really shown he can be a starting NFL qb not in his rookie year any more, and never mind that this team better hope none of the teams get covid and Sunday's game cancelled; otherwise jones might not throw a TD again for a awhile and the Giants are Washington's only chance at actually winning a game all year. But yeah throw that bum Eli out with no system in place ; shitty over drafted QBs to replace him, and pay him a ton of money to stand on a sideline and watch them lose just the same.
Also wanted Josh Allen.....wanted no part of Haskins. There was too much talent at Ohio St....and at his pro day, being out of shape was a major red flag.
My concern for QB lawrence stems from Clemson being too good. Its men against boys...he seems to have all the tools, but not tested.....
Still holding out hope for Daniel and Thomas....love Barkley and Dexter Lawrence....
Now, remains to be seen if DG made the right choice. But...if we all recall, majority of BBI wanted a quarterback. Lock was high up there on a ton of posters here. It turns out, Jones is a lot farther along right now than Lock is.
"In three years, we'll find out how crazy I am," Gettleman told NBC Sports' Peter King. ... "The bottom line is, I have confidence in what I do and who I am. I've been a part of organizations that had pretty good quarterbacks -- Jim Kelly, John Elway, Kerry Collins, Eli Manning, Cam Newton.
"I've led a charmed life with the quarterbacks on the teams I've worked for. I know what good ones look like. The other thing is, résumés matter. Every once in a while, I wish the people taking the shots would take a minute to look at my résumé. I've been a part of teams that went to seven Super Bowls. I had a hand in some of them. But today, there's no patience. And there's no room for civil discourse in our society, which I find sad."
Now, remains to be seen if DG made the right choice. But...if we all recall, majority of BBI wanted a quarterback. Lock was high up there on a ton of posters here. It turns out, Jones is a lot farther along right now than Lock is.
How is Jones “a lot further along” than Lock? Because he’s played more games?
Lock has actually played no worse than Jones. And with his arm talent, to me, has much more upside.
Now, remains to be seen if DG made the right choice. But...if we all recall, majority of BBI wanted a quarterback. Lock was high up there on a ton of posters here. It turns out, Jones is a lot farther along right now than Lock is.
Yeah, not so fast.
It's also been very widely reported that Haskins was the Washington pick if he was available all along because that is what the Owner demanded.
Also, rumors about Denver and Daniel Jones are very mixed. He had a private workout with Broncos pre-draft but they were also linked a good bit to favoring Drew Lock for their system. Further, other reports indicated they were always very interested in trading down in the draft to get more picks but also because they thought either QB above would still be available later in Rd 1 or possibly Rd 2 if they pulled the trigger on a QB.
I always loved how he went from check out my resume to civil discourse in our society in a few seconds.
Classic.
It's also been very widely reported that Haskins was the Washington pick if he was available all along because that is what the Owner demanded.
Also, rumors about Denver and Daniel Jones are very mixed. He had a private workout with Broncos pre-draft but they were also linked a good bit to favoring Drew Lock for their system. Further, other reports indicated they were always very interested in trading down in the draft to get more picks but also because they thought either QB above would still be available later in Rd 1 or possibly Rd 2 if they pulled the trigger on a QB.
Peter King was in the Broncos draft room and reported that Lock was Elway's guy. In fact, King had a mock draft prior to the 2018 draft where he predicted the Broncos would trade up to get Lock if he fell in the draft. Do you think King didn't know something? But because so many Gettleman supporters wanted Resume to be right about Jones they drank the Kool Aid when Resume said he knew "for a fact more than one team" wanted Jones.
And Haskins was definitely the WFT pick. Snyder's son played football with Haskins in high school at The Bullis School in Potomac, MD. So there was a deep local tie...
"In three years, we'll find out how crazy I am," Gettleman told NBC Sports' Peter King. ... "The bottom line is, I have confidence in what I do and who I am. I've been a part of organizations that had pretty good quarterbacks -- Jim Kelly, John Elway, Kerry Collins, Eli Manning, Cam Newton.
"I've led a charmed life with the quarterbacks on the teams I've worked for. I know what good ones look like. The other thing is, résumés matter. Every once in a while, I wish the people taking the shots would take a minute to look at my résumé. I've been a part of teams that went to seven Super Bowls. I had a hand in some of them. But today, there's no patience. And there's no room for civil discourse in our society, which I find sad."
Hence, Resume Dave.
I'll never forget reading that. Another gem among many...
Quote:
It's also been very widely reported that Haskins was the Washington pick if he was available all along because that is what the Owner demanded.
Also, rumors about Denver and Daniel Jones are very mixed. He had a private workout with Broncos pre-draft but they were also linked a good bit to favoring Drew Lock for their system. Further, other reports indicated they were always very interested in trading down in the draft to get more picks but also because they thought either QB above would still be available later in Rd 1 or possibly Rd 2 if they pulled the trigger on a QB.
Peter King was in the Broncos draft room and reported that Lock was Elway's guy. In fact, King had a mock draft prior to the 2018 draft where he predicted the Broncos would trade up to get Lock if he fell in the draft. Do you think King didn't know something? But because so many Gettleman supporters wanted Resume to be right about Jones they drank the Kool Aid when Resume said he knew "for a fact more than one team" wanted Jones.
And Haskins was definitely the WFT pick. Snyder's son played football with Haskins in high school at The Bullis School in Potomac, MD. So there was a deep local tie...
Too many posters here point to fact that Denver traded down right after Jones was picked as confirmation he was there guy.
But reality is Pitt had accumulated a bunch of picks before the draft and wanted to use some of them to move up in Rd 1. And as mentioned, Denver had leaked they could be in favor of a trade down strategy to grab an extra player(s) while expecting a desirable QB to be available later in the draft. The two teams just really accomplished their goals.
I still think they should have drafted him and forced Miami or the Chargers to make an offer
Now, remains to be seen if DG made the right choice. But...if we all recall, majority of BBI wanted a quarterback. Lock was high up there on a ton of posters here. It turns out, Jones is a lot farther along right now than Lock is.
Check out the thread on Giants favored for first time. Pete44 made a nice post about Bram Weinstein, who was WFT beat reporter. he said the WFT was never going to draft Jones even though the coaches wanted him..
"In three years, we'll find out how crazy I am," Gettleman told NBC Sports' Peter King. ... "The bottom line is, I have confidence in what I do and who I am. I've been a part of organizations that had pretty good quarterbacks -- Jim Kelly, John Elway, Kerry Collins, Eli Manning, Cam Newton.
"I've led a charmed life with the quarterbacks on the teams I've worked for. I know what good ones look like. The other thing is, résumés matter. Every once in a while, I wish the people taking the shots would take a minute to look at my résumé. I've been a part of teams that went to seven Super Bowls. I had a hand in some of them. But today, there's no patience. And there's no room for civil discourse in our society, which I find sad."
This is such a typical boomer comment lol
"In three years, we'll find out how crazy I am," Gettleman told NBC Sports' Peter King. ... "The bottom line is, I have confidence in what I do and who I am. I've been a part of organizations that had pretty good quarterbacks -- Jim Kelly, John Elway, Kerry Collins, Eli Manning, Cam Newton.
"I've led a charmed life with the quarterbacks on the teams I've worked for. I know what good ones look like. The other thing is, résumés matter. Every once in a while, I wish the people taking the shots would take a minute to look at my résumé. I've been a part of teams that went to seven Super Bowls. I had a hand in some of them. But today, there's no patience. And there's no room for civil discourse in our society, which I find sad."
Damn I had never seen this full quote, only gotten the gist from seeing it referenced, SMH.
It's crazy the extent the Giants are willing to go through the cycle of (picking a player higher than they know the rest of the league is on them, build up these stories trying to justify the reach, not change their scouting department significantly). When the rest of the league proves to do things better than you and you continue to think you have some angle, that's a level of stupidity and arrogance that is baffling.
Check out the thread on Giants favored for first time. Pete44 made a nice post about Bram Weinstein, who was WFT beat reporter. he said the WFT was never going to draft Jones even though the coaches wanted him..
GMan...Snyder was making the pick if Haskins was still on the board. From what I heard, he was elated when the Giants passed on Haskins for Jones.
Quote:
Terps— Mcadoo did Mara an incredible solid — he provided evidence Geno Smith and Manning were roughly interchangeable. Instead of accepting that hard truth — he fired everyone else and bent himself in a pretzel to get more miles for his favorite player.
Mara put Manning in front of the team. It was selfish.
And when fans wax on about the virtue of it all, it makes me sick. All those other guys on the team deserved an owner and general management that was dead set on winning another championship. Not deifying a guy who had has turn, made his money, and hung his pelts.
I'm as big an Eli fan as anyone, but this is 100% true.
Is it really true ? Reese's jags who are now playing arena league after Gettl cleaned house deserved better ?
We now have Gettl's jags who are similarly bound for arena league but I guess they deserve better too?
But yea I guess since Eli can't take what was a pretty much average to above average roster and put him on his back and win a SB any more that means he is pretty much as useful as Geno Smith ???? um k.