for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Why did we switch to a 4-3?

Angel Eyes : 10/15/2020 6:14 pm
So I grew up in the 2000s and 2010s, where the Giants mainly used a 4-3 defense: two DEs, two DTs, three LBs, and four DBs. I had a great time watching the Giants getting after the quarterback with four guys. Then in 2018 we switched to a 3-4 two-gap system which we're still in right now, with more hog mollies on the field. The problem with a 3-4 is that you need more help from your linebackers to get after the quarterback. Why did we switch? To run a 3-4 you need a rushbacker and a SAM to cover the tight end and we still don't have the rushbacker. Simply put, we don't seem any better for switching.
Out of a 4-3, I mean.  
Angel Eyes : 10/15/2020 6:15 pm : link
Whoops.
I don't think the the giants ran a 3-4 since Jim Burt  
Black_Flag : 10/15/2020 6:20 pm : link
was nose tackle in like '86.

What was Snacks was he a nose tackle. I would guess it was because LT , Carl Banks ; Peppper Johnson, Harry Carson and Gary Reasons retired. And now they have jags like Connelly who are 6th round jags ; oh wait he got cut
Because they hired Bettcher...  
.McL. : 10/15/2020 6:21 pm : link
So the obvious follow on question is why did they hire Bettcher a 3-4 DC...

To that, I can say I have no clue. seems like one of the dumbest decisions this FO has ever made. Not talked about enough on here, but this may actually have been worse than picking a RB at #2.

Here is what I just posted on another thread

Quote:

While I agree that the team (any team for that matter) has has limited resources. Given that fact, and the fact that entering the 2018 offseason the team knew the following:
1) It had to replace 80% of the OL, and the only remaining player was being moved in an experiment that was likely to fail, so they needed to plan for 100% turnover on the OL
2) They had other needs on offense at #2WR, RB and eventaully QB
3) The LBs were weak and needed upgrading
4) Most of the bickering was in the secondary, they needed a FS, and a slot CB, they needed get control of that situation, plan to replace JJ, anf possibly Apple as well.

With all these needs going into that off season, why in gods name would you compound the problem and adding to that list by switching to a 3-4. Now you need to completely retool the DL, dump all your LB (weak as they were) and get a whole new group that had the 3-4 skill sets.

Apparently I'm not smart enough to make any sense of that decision whatsoever.
The 3-4 was supposed to be stronger against the run,  
81_Great_Dane : 10/15/2020 6:29 pm : link
the 4-3 was supposed to be stronger against the pass.

Nowadays the defensive fronts are more hybrid looks combining elements of the 4-3 and 3-4.
RE: The 3-4 was supposed to be stronger against the run,  
.McL. : 10/15/2020 6:33 pm : link
In comment 15009993 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
the 4-3 was supposed to be stronger against the pass.

Nowadays the defensive fronts are more hybrid looks combining elements of the 4-3 and 3-4.

That's an oversimplification this isn't quite right.

The 3-4 gives you more coverage/pass rushing options by putting another speedy LB on the field in place a big DL guy... You can drop either OLB into coverage or rush either. Move them around, come from more angles, etc. However, by taking a big guy out in favor of a smaller guy, you need your 3 big guys to be even bigger to take on multiple double teams they will now see.
RE: Because they hired Bettcher...  
Angel Eyes : 10/15/2020 6:34 pm : link
In comment 15009989 .McL. said:
Quote:
So the obvious follow on question is why did they hire Bettcher a 3-4 DC...

To that, I can say I have no clue. seems like one of the dumbest decisions this FO has ever made. Not talked about enough on here, but this may actually have been worse than picking a RB at #2.

Here is what I just posted on another thread



Quote:



While I agree that the team (any team for that matter) has has limited resources. Given that fact, and the fact that entering the 2018 offseason the team knew the following:
1) It had to replace 80% of the OL, and the only remaining player was being moved in an experiment that was likely to fail, so they needed to plan for 100% turnover on the OL
2) They had other needs on offense at #2WR, RB and eventaully QB
3) The LBs were weak and needed upgrading
4) Most of the bickering was in the secondary, they needed a FS, and a slot CB, they needed get control of that situation, plan to replace JJ, anf possibly Apple as well.

With all these needs going into that off season, why in gods name would you compound the problem and adding to that list by switching to a 3-4. Now you need to completely retool the DL, dump all your LB (weak as they were) and get a whole new group that had the 3-4 skill sets.

Apparently I'm not smart enough to make any sense of that decision whatsoever.



A DC can change schemes; the Jets can attest to that since they retained a 3-4 scheme despite hiring Gregg Williams being a 4-3 guy.
But your comment about hybrids  
.McL. : 10/15/2020 6:35 pm : link
is accurate.
RE: RE: Because they hired Bettcher...  
.McL. : 10/15/2020 6:37 pm : link
In comment 15009999 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15009989 .McL. said:


Quote:


So the obvious follow on question is why did they hire Bettcher a 3-4 DC...

To that, I can say I have no clue. seems like one of the dumbest decisions this FO has ever made. Not talked about enough on here, but this may actually have been worse than picking a RB at #2.

Here is what I just posted on another thread



Quote:



While I agree that the team (any team for that matter) has has limited resources. Given that fact, and the fact that entering the 2018 offseason the team knew the following:
1) It had to replace 80% of the OL, and the only remaining player was being moved in an experiment that was likely to fail, so they needed to plan for 100% turnover on the OL
2) They had other needs on offense at #2WR, RB and eventaully QB
3) The LBs were weak and needed upgrading
4) Most of the bickering was in the secondary, they needed a FS, and a slot CB, they needed get control of that situation, plan to replace JJ, anf possibly Apple as well.

With all these needs going into that off season, why in gods name would you compound the problem and adding to that list by switching to a 3-4. Now you need to completely retool the DL, dump all your LB (weak as they were) and get a whole new group that had the 3-4 skill sets.

Apparently I'm not smart enough to make any sense of that decision whatsoever.





A DC can change schemes; the Jets can attest to that since they retained a 3-4 scheme despite hiring Gregg Williams being a 4-3 guy.

I don't know, they wanted to let Bettcher run his scheme.
Please don't ask me to explain. I can't...
It was tragically incompetent.
I know  
jtfuoco : 10/15/2020 6:59 pm : link
A lot of guys wanted the switch since high quality DE cost a lot and are very hard to come by. With the belief that colleges were producing more speedy pass rushing hybrid LBs to fit 3-4 schemes but so far Giant scouts have failed to find the right guys to really fill the ranks of our LBs
One, it was a better defense against the read option.  
robbieballs2003 : 10/15/2020 7:03 pm : link
But that isn't as popular anymore and not taking the league by storm.

Two, you have to stay ahead of the curve. We were running a 4-3 when 4-3 DEs were few and far between. Great edge rushers perfect for a 3-4 were dropping in the draft. Now that we switched there were a lot of teams running a 3-4 so then it became harder to find those guys.
Kind of off topic  
BigBlueShock : 10/15/2020 7:06 pm : link
But since you mentioned it in your OP and I continue to see people mentioning the same thing, the Giants have actually been very good against TEs this season. I know people are just used to the old narrative, and there is plenty of other things to complain about, giving up monster games to TEs has not been on that list this season.
RE: Kind of off topic  
BigBlueShock : 10/15/2020 7:13 pm : link
In comment 15010026 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
But since you mentioned it in your OP and I continue to see people mentioning the same thing, the Giants have actually been very good against TEs this season. I know people are just used to the old narrative, and there is plenty of other things to complain about, giving up monster games to TEs has not been on that list this season.

In fact, looking at the stats, they have been pretty incredible against TEs this season. The best game against them was a 3-21 performance by Higbee. They haven’t given up a TD to a TE this season
RE: One, it was a better defense against the read option.  
.McL. : 10/15/2020 7:18 pm : link
In comment 15010023 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But that isn't as popular anymore and not taking the league by storm.

Two, you have to stay ahead of the curve. We were running a 4-3 when 4-3 DEs were few and far between. Great edge rushers perfect for a 3-4 were dropping in the draft. Now that we switched there were a lot of teams running a 3-4 so then it became harder to find those guys.

Yeah, I heard that a lot. I'm not sure I buy it. Most of these guys can play either 3-4 OLB/Edge or 4-3 DE/Edge. Look at Josh Allen, Brian Burns, etc... Especially with today's hybrids, the difference has been blurred. Which i why we now refer to this type of player as Edge now and not as a OLB or DE...
RE: RE: One, it was a better defense against the read option.  
Angel Eyes : 10/15/2020 7:32 pm : link
In comment 15010034 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 15010023 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


But that isn't as popular anymore and not taking the league by storm.

Two, you have to stay ahead of the curve. We were running a 4-3 when 4-3 DEs were few and far between. Great edge rushers perfect for a 3-4 were dropping in the draft. Now that we switched there were a lot of teams running a 3-4 so then it became harder to find those guys.


Yeah, I heard that a lot. I'm not sure I buy it. Most of these guys can play either 3-4 OLB/Edge or 4-3 DE/Edge. Look at Josh Allen, Brian Burns, etc... Especially with today's hybrids, the difference has been blurred. Which i why we now refer to this type of player as Edge now and not as a OLB or DE...

Even JPP. Tampa moved to a 3-4 and he averaged a sack a game last year after recovering from his car accident.
RE: RE: RE: One, it was a better defense against the read option.  
.McL. : 10/15/2020 8:00 pm : link
In comment 15010045 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15010034 .McL. said:


Quote:


In comment 15010023 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


But that isn't as popular anymore and not taking the league by storm.

Two, you have to stay ahead of the curve. We were running a 4-3 when 4-3 DEs were few and far between. Great edge rushers perfect for a 3-4 were dropping in the draft. Now that we switched there were a lot of teams running a 3-4 so then it became harder to find those guys.


Yeah, I heard that a lot. I'm not sure I buy it. Most of these guys can play either 3-4 OLB/Edge or 4-3 DE/Edge. Look at Josh Allen, Brian Burns, etc... Especially with today's hybrids, the difference has been blurred. Which i why we now refer to this type of player as Edge now and not as a OLB or DE...


Even JPP. Tampa moved to a 3-4 and he averaged a sack a game last year after recovering from his car accident.

yep...
The edge guys can play either.
Its the DTs that are generally different.
The 3-4 is easier to fill  
Joey in VA : 10/15/2020 8:33 pm : link
And find role players for. If you don't a stud DE in a 4-3 you're cooked and your LBs absolutely have to be able to cover which exposes you to power running concepts. The Ravens, Pats, Steelers have won plenty of super bowls using this base defense. It stands the test of time, allows for more flexibility and doesn't rely on finding HoF DEs or LBs.
RE: The 3-4 is easier to fill  
.McL. : 10/15/2020 8:38 pm : link
In comment 15010094 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
And find role players for. If you don't a stud DE in a 4-3 you're cooked and your LBs absolutely have to be able to cover which exposes you to power running concepts. The Ravens, Pats, Steelers have won plenty of super bowls using this base defense. It stands the test of time, allows for more flexibility and doesn't rely on finding HoF DEs or LBs.

Joey,

I don't think anybody is questioning the validity of the 3-4 defense. The question is, why did we switch at the time we did. The team had JPP and Vernon to play DE. They had bigger fish to fry at the time. It simply wasn't necessary to do right then and create a bunch of new holes to fill.
The  
Toth029 : 10/15/2020 9:05 pm : link
Defense sucked in a number of years fielding a 4-3 defense. Who cares? They didnt have linebackers then and it's even harder to get an top 43 DE than a top 34 OLB. It is easier to get a pass rush for a defense out of 3-4, disguising the design and making it more difficult for OC's to find the rusher.
Players  
Toth029 : 10/15/2020 9:07 pm : link
Matter more than the coordinator.

Saleh is a hot topic because when the 49ers didn't have Bosa and Ford, they weren't very good. Add those two...
I know this is a historical question, but  
CT Charlie : 10/15/2020 9:25 pm : link
hasn't Joe Judge been pretty vocal about how outdated it is to think in terms of 3-4 vs. 4-3? Your defense should be flexible, built to respond to the situation and to the opposition.
RE: I know this is a historical question, but  
Angel Eyes : 10/15/2020 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15010133 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
hasn't Joe Judge been pretty vocal about how outdated it is to think in terms of 3-4 vs. 4-3? Your defense should be flexible, built to respond to the situation and to the opposition.

And a fat lot of help it's done us. We're no better.
RE: RE: I know this is a historical question, but  
BlueLou'sBack : 10/15/2020 9:57 pm : link
In comment 15010135 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15010133 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


hasn't Joe Judge been pretty vocal about how outdated it is to think in terms of 3-4 vs. 4-3? Your defense should be flexible, built to respond to the situation and to the opposition.


And a fat lot of help it's done us. We're no better.


I really find it hard to believe you dont see this defense is better, waay better than last year.

Are people that stupid, or just forgetful?

RE: RE: RE: I know this is a historical question, but  
.McL. : 10/15/2020 10:12 pm : link
In comment 15010146 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 15010135 Angel Eyes said:


Quote:


In comment 15010133 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


hasn't Joe Judge been pretty vocal about how outdated it is to think in terms of 3-4 vs. 4-3? Your defense should be flexible, built to respond to the situation and to the opposition.


And a fat lot of help it's done us. We're no better.



I really find it hard to believe you dont see this defense is better, waay better than last year.

Are people that stupid, or just forgetful?

Lou,

Whether this year's defense is better or not than last year's isn't the question...

The question is why did we tear down the 4-3 we had in 2018 and replace it with a 3-4.

The question underlying the OP, is are we better off now for having done the switch in 2018, compounding the number hole/needs that the team had at a time when there were other issues that 5 alarm fires. They needed to replace all 5 starters on the OL for Christ's sakes.
Given the state of the team at the time, what argument can you make that doing the switch then has made us a better team now. I don't see any argument that can be made for that premise.
Angel Eyes, correct me if I am wrong  
.McL. : 10/15/2020 10:24 pm : link
But I don't think you intended your OP as a referendum on the 3-4 vs 4-3 per se, unless the answer of course was that the 3-4 was light years better than a 4-3.
The thing is the differences are nuance. Both can be very effective defenses, depending on the players and the DC. In fact both have been gravitating closer to each other schemewise, borrowing from each other and both becoming more multiple. There are some differences that result in different types of players being more suited to one of the other, but either can be effective and many players can thrive in either nowadays.
In other words, I don't think there is not enough of a difference between the 2 to warrant a tear down/rebuild when you have the appropriate players for one you are currently running.
You can argue that players for the other are more available now, and will be for the foreseeable future. That may be an argument for trending in that direction, but it wasn't an immediate burning requirement.
RE: RE: RE: One, it was a better defense against the read option.  
Sonic Youth : 10/15/2020 11:21 pm : link
In comment 15010045 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15010034 .McL. said:


Quote:


In comment 15010023 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


But that isn't as popular anymore and not taking the league by storm.

Two, you have to stay ahead of the curve. We were running a 4-3 when 4-3 DEs were few and far between. Great edge rushers perfect for a 3-4 were dropping in the draft. Now that we switched there were a lot of teams running a 3-4 so then it became harder to find those guys.


Yeah, I heard that a lot. I'm not sure I buy it. Most of these guys can play either 3-4 OLB/Edge or 4-3 DE/Edge. Look at Josh Allen, Brian Burns, etc... Especially with today's hybrids, the difference has been blurred. Which i why we now refer to this type of player as Edge now and not as a OLB or DE...


Even JPP. Tampa moved to a 3-4 and he averaged a sack a game last year after recovering from his car accident.


JPP should have never been traded
Angel Eyes, you responded to Charlie's post directly...  
BlueLou'sBack : 10/15/2020 11:56 pm : link
Wherein he mentioned Judge's (and Graham's) plan to use multiple adaptive fronts that are "matched" to our opponents.

So far, for the most part, I've seen considerably superior defensive deployments and strategies.

Both making better use of players like Carter and Leonard Williams, and seemingly far fewer blatant missed coverages than last year.

If your response is meant to go back a few years, Charlie's post wasn't addressing that change, and your response to him badly missed the mark.
Giants switched to and from a 3-4 because of LAWRENCE TAYLOR...  
x meadowlander : 10/16/2020 7:39 am : link
...in the 1990 Super Bowl, they were still using that base D, LB's Banks, Johnson, DeOssie, Taylor, Howard as the NT...

Freeing up LT by making him a full time WLB made that defense much more versatile and lethal. He was everywhere. It was like playing with 12 men on D.

RE: RE: Kind of off topic  
LBH15 : 10/16/2020 8:17 am : link
In comment 15010031 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15010026 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


But since you mentioned it in your OP and I continue to see people mentioning the same thing, the Giants have actually been very good against TEs this season. I know people are just used to the old narrative, and there is plenty of other things to complain about, giving up monster games to TEs has not been on that list this season.


In fact, looking at the stats, they have been pretty incredible against TEs this season. The best game against them was a 3-21 performance by Higbee. They haven’t given up a TD to a TE this season


Good post. Have you noticed who is taking on most of the coverage responsibilities this season with TEs?
I think the answer to the OP's question is simply because  
LBH15 : 10/16/2020 8:35 am : link
the Giants hired Bettcher and he predominately ran a 3-4 scheme in Arizona before coming to the Giants.

And I think they believed they had the pieces in NY to run it effectively as well with Damon Harrison playing role of Nose Tackle and younger, more nimble Dalvin Tomlinson playing one of the Defensive Ends. They also felt Vernon would be a good fit to drop in one of the OLB spots.

As an aside, I always thought one of the more interesting flaws in this idea was the signing of Alec Ogletree. The year before he joined the Giants, he was on a Ram defense that had just switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4. And the Rams thought so well of his play (he moved from OLB to MLB) in that scheme that they were willing to ship him off the Giants after signing a big deal.

Nevertheless, was the decision to move to 3-4 any more than noted above?
RE: I think the answer to the OP's question is simply because  
McNally's_Nuts : 10/16/2020 8:55 am : link
In comment 15010248 LBH15 said:
Quote:
the Giants hired Bettcher and he predominately ran a 3-4 scheme in Arizona before coming to the Giants.

And I think they believed they had the pieces in NY to run it effectively as well with Damon Harrison playing role of Nose Tackle and younger, more nimble Dalvin Tomlinson playing one of the Defensive Ends. They also felt Vernon would be a good fit to drop in one of the OLB spots.

As an aside, I always thought one of the more interesting flaws in this idea was the signing of Alec Ogletree. The year before he joined the Giants, he was on a Ram defense that had just switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4. And the Rams thought so well of his play (he moved from OLB to MLB) in that scheme that they were willing to ship him off the Giants after signing a big deal.

Nevertheless, was the decision to move to 3-4 any more than noted above?


Yup, I couldn't agree more with you on this.

I hated the Ogletree trade from the start, it made no sense when he had a down year in Wade Phillips system.
Personally I don't think the 3-4 vs 4-3 discussion is relevant anymore  
PatersonPlank : 10/16/2020 9:16 am : link
All teams use a hybrid, switching back and forth depending on the situation. All they do is have the EDGE guy put his hand on the ground. Sometimes as everyone has pointed out, we have our DL stand around until the snap to completely disguise what we are doing (the amoeba thing).
I always thought running a 3-4 is extremely beneficial  
LBH15 : 10/16/2020 9:21 am : link
as it provides so much more flexibility in defensive player scheming and creative calls versus a Passing Offense.

And as we have seen first hand, if done correctly, it can really confuse an Offense.
RE: Because they hired Bettcher...  
crick n NC : 10/16/2020 9:34 am : link
In comment 15009989 .McL. said:
Quote:
So the obvious follow on question is why did they hire Bettcher a 3-4 DC...

To that, I can say I have no clue. seems like one of the dumbest decisions this FO has ever made. Not talked about enough on here, but this may actually have been worse than picking a RB at #2.



Mcl, I think Joey answered this below. The Giants didn't believe they had their 4-3 end and considered that reconstructing the defense to a new base might logically be better in the long run as Joey highlighted below.
Didn't they trade JPP  
GManinDC : 10/16/2020 9:51 am : link
because he didn't fit in Bettcher's scheme of a 3-4?
JPP  
Toth029 : 10/16/2020 10:02 am : link
And Vernon were dealt mainly due to cap hit and constant injuries. Which I am okay with. Resources should be evened out and not spent on one position. Reese messed up.
RE: Didn't they trade JPP  
LBH15 : 10/16/2020 10:03 am : link
In comment 15010313 GManinDC said:
Quote:
because he didn't fit in Bettcher's scheme of a 3-4?


Yes, I think to a good degree. Also because of the hand/injuries and because between the two JPP and Vernon, they thought Vernon would fit the OLB position much better.
RE: JPP  
GManinDC : 10/16/2020 10:12 am : link
In comment 15010325 Toth029 said:
Quote:
And Vernon were dealt mainly due to cap hit and constant injuries. Which I am okay with. Resources should be evened out and not spent on one position. Reese messed up.


I agree about the resources but it's the same as any other skill position. Sometimes you need to pour a bunch of resources into a position In this case, It didn't work out.

I would put that on the FO not Reese. After 2015 nightmare, everyone wanted that defense fixed. I'm guessing there was mandate and it actually worked for a year.
The Giants didn't feel JPP  
crick n NC : 10/16/2020 10:37 am : link
was their 4-3 end.
Why did we switch?  
Joey in VA : 10/16/2020 11:14 am : link
Simple, we hired a guy who ran a 3-4. It didn't create holes to fill necessarily either, those holes existed with who we had. As for JPP, did you want to pay premium$ to keep a guy with a severe handicap physically whose best days are behind him?
Hmmm... I would say that the sheer volume of  
.McL. : 10/17/2020 3:23 am : link
UFAs, Trades, Draft Picks, and Cap dollars exhausted on the defensive front seven tell a very different story as the whether or not we opened up holes

LB - UFAs and trades:
Alec Ogletree
Connor Barwin
Nate Stupar
David Mayo
Markus Golden
Blake Martinez
Kyler Fackrell

LB - Draft picks:
Lorenzo Carter
Oshane Ximines
Ryan Connelly
Cam Brown
Carter Coughlin
T.J. Brunson
Tae Crowder

DL - UFAs and trades:
Josh Mauro
AJ Francis
John Jenkins
Kareem Martin
Robert Thomas
Olsen Pierre
Austin Johnson
Leonard Williams

DL - Draft picks:
B.J. Hill
R.J. McIntosh
Dexter Lawrence
Chris Slayton


As for JPP, I would certainly rather pay him the the sorry lot we brought in.

Let me link this thread on him...
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=601921

RE: Hmmm... I would say that the sheer volume of  
BlueLou'sBack : 10/17/2020 4:10 am : link
In comment 15010976 .McL. said:
Quote:
UFAs, Trades, Draft Picks, and Cap dollars exhausted on the defensive front seven tell a very different story as the whether or not we opened up holes

LB - UFAs and trades:
Alec Ogletree
Connor Barwin
Nate Stupar
David Mayo
Markus Golden
Blake Martinez
Kyler Fackrell

LB - Draft picks:
Lorenzo Carter
Oshane Ximines
Ryan Connelly
Cam Brown
Carter Coughlin
T.J. Brunson
Tae Crowder

DL - UFAs and trades:
Josh Mauro
AJ Francis
John Jenkins
Kareem Martin
Robert Thomas
Olsen Pierre
Austin Johnson
Leonard Williams

DL - Draft picks:
B.J. Hill
R.J. McIntosh
Dexter Lawrence
Chris Slayton


As for JPP, I would certainly rather pay him the the sorry lot we brought in.

Let me link this thread on him...
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=601921


While that's quite a list of defensive front 7 churn, the idea that any schematic shift created the holes is at the very least highly arguable.

The team hadn't had a highly functional LB corps in YEARS, because Jerry Reese didn't think they were important assets to draft. He also made a tremendous tactical error letting Linval Joseph go and the DT replacements he brought in weren't high level replacements...

Again, this team's largest weaknesses stemmed not only from poor drafting re talent and personality (DaMontre Moore for example) evaluation, they stemmed from the strategic insight error of thinking the game has evolved to basketball on grass.

I think some folks are convinced the game now IS a variant of badketball on grass... Thanks to Andy Reid's success at KC, but ya know, only one team has Patrick Mahomes.

Go examine that Eli Manning has two rings to Aaron Rodgers's solitary one, and reconsider the idea that the game has really evolved into a league wherein passing offense and WR play are the trump cards.

A shot at Aaron Rodgers in a thread about defensive schemes?  
LBH15 : 10/17/2020 8:54 am : link
And the often used criticism that he only has one Super Bowl ring, but this time it's used to support a theory that the NFL isn't really a passing league?

Going to get another cup of coffee now.


RE: A shot at Aaron Rodgers in a thread about defensive schemes?  
BlueLou'sBack : 10/17/2020 8:59 am : link
In comment 15011039 LBH15 said:
Quote:
And the often used criticism that he only has one Super Bowl ring, but this time it's used to support a theory that the NFL isn't really a passing league?

Going to get another cup of coffee now.



You're welcome!
The time stamp is often all you need to  
LBH15 : 10/17/2020 9:07 am : link
assess the logic in certain posts. :-)
Back to the Corner