For those who are critical of Daniel Jones please watch the attached link that is analyzing the offensive line
This all 22 review shows the pressure Jones had to deal with.
The analysis focuses on the OL. Watch Jones.
It appears that Jones was harried and pressured almost every play
Yet, Jones made some simply outrageous throws rolling out on the run and under duress.
There was no separation by the receivers and Jones had to make a perfect throw
Jones makes mistakes but he has all the tools he makes plays that only a few QBs can make
Link - (
New Window )
Those asking for immediate results are going to be disappointed.
The fumbling has got to be fixed. Repeating the same mistake over and over is a big problem. It seems that he locks on so intently that he cannot feel tbe rush.
But - BUT -- But
1-- Isn't it a fact that he locks onto receivers for too long?
2-- Are you saying anyone such as SY is flat out wrong that he doesn't think as quick as he should?
3-- This year - GMEN want to give DJones time/ show patience- where would we rate him right now vs other QB's?
4-- For the future -DJones career do we see a top 5 QB, a top 10 QB? Or a top 15 QB? Or not even top 15? Or if it is too early when should we know? After this season? Or after game number 12? Or-- he gets longer than after this season - if so how long?
5-- We had 3 games this year that came down to the bitter end. How many does a top 5 QB win? How many does a top 10 Qb Win? How many does a top 15 QB win?
With a bit more time, hopefully this can change.
I don’t know these days however if any QB has the luxury of having more than two seasons to prove himself
Fumbles from other NFC East QBs, 2020:
Jones....4***
Wentz....4
Haskins...4
Dak......3
*** 2 fumbles may not have been all his fault (pitch out, and bad ? snap)
With a bit more time, hopefully this can change.
I don’t know these days however if any QB has the luxury of having more than two seasons to prove himself
Nick Foles
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Teddy Bridgewater
Derek Carr
Baker Mayfield
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has no time to throw to receivers who can't separate. He also has no running game. I'm not excusing his fumbling, but that is a lot to overcome.
Fumbles from other NFC East QBs, 2020:
Jones....4***
Wentz....4
Haskins...4
Dak......3
*** 2 fumbles may not have been all his fault (pitch out, and bad ? snap)
This season they are 31st and 30th.
I need more than "the OL is bad and jones has no time". Jones was sacked 38 times in 13 games last season. He looked like a QB that was a few tweaks away from being a 10 year starter.
Through 5 games, he's been sacked 16 times. Roughly the same rate. He looks like a mess.
This season they are 31st and 30th.
I need more than "the OL is bad and jones has no time". Jones was sacked 38 times in 13 games last season. He looked like a QB that was a few tweaks away from being a 10 year starter.
The problem could be cumulative. In that case, he might be turing into David Carr. Shepard is also on IR.
Through 5 games, he's been sacked 16 times. Roughly the same rate. He looks like a mess.
This season they are 31st and 30th.
I need more than "the OL is bad and jones has no time". Jones was sacked 38 times in 13 games last season. He looked like a QB that was a few tweaks away from being a 10 year starter.
Through 5 games, he's been sacked 16 times. Roughly the same rate. He looks like a mess.
The problem could be cumulative. In that case, he might be turing into David Carr. Shepard is also on IR.
My goals for this season is for us to be sure of three key areas:
-Staff & FO - Judge is HC and we need a new GM (Abrams) and we must be sure we have the right staff members and draft really well.
-D. Jones we must be sure he is our true #1 going forward
-OL must be settled that we have our five starters this year as I believe both Solder & Zeitler will be released due to contracts & play not meeting out.
Thomas-Hernandez-Gates-Lemiuex-Peart - are we set on the OL for 2021 and beyond?
As for defense, we must make sure our young guys can play and that especially include McKinney who would have been the starter over Love.
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His errors are mental ones. The game often seems to move to fast for him.
With a bit more time, hopefully this can change.
I don’t know these days however if any QB has the luxury of having more than two seasons to prove himself
Nick Foles
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Teddy Bridgewater
Derek Carr
Baker Mayfield
I'll give you Carr and Mayfield, but the other three almost feel like they are from a different era now....
[quote] As I've said - I'm fine to seeing how he is throughout the year. I'm not anti-Jones at all.
But - BUT -- But
1-- Isn't it a fact that he locks onto receivers for too long?
Phil Simms was asked this question on BBK this week, his answer:
“No, I ve studied his film, he moves his eyes the way you want and NFL quarterback to do.”
His answer also had something to the effect that he doesn’t like how these ideas get started but the tape does not back it up.
That s Phil Simms. Now he s been dismissed here before as a evaluator of talent at the position, but certainly he is more capable than the critics here to identify Jones’ weaknesses.
And he makes mistakes. He bails on the pocket too early. He holds the ball too long, resulting in sacks and fumbles, and needless QB hits whilst throwing.
Jones looks really good sometimes and others you wonder if he is going to ever be a winning player. Daniel Jones has the talent to be a good NFL QB, I'm sure of that. But he needs to feel the rush better, and calibrate that internal clock. Sometimes a throwaway is the right decision.
I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones.
I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones.
Absolutely true. I lived in Houston during the Carr years. It was sad to see his career destroyed.
I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones.
this is entirely speculation and there isn't a single shred of evidence to support the claim that QBs get "mentally destroyed" by a bad line. Maybe Carr was just a bad QB. There are plenty of great QBs that suffer through periods of a bad line, and they often play poorly during those periods, and then when the line is repaired they come back to elite levels. Brady, Wilson, Rodgers come to mind.
Even when the OL line blows up he is able to make a play
He does display an accurate and strong arm even on off platform throws
Jones is not helped by his receivers and the play calling is not helping Daniel
The two throws he made while running to his right were not just good they were great
Does that mean he's the guy that leads them to the promised land? I don't know, but players have short windows these days. He's playing in a house of cards just like you said, sometimes that's enough to end a career.
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Look at David Carr. Guy got destroyed in Houston to the point it was mental. When he was playing here (in pre-season), his first instinct was to bail out of perfectly good pockets.
I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones.
this is entirely speculation and there isn't a single shred of evidence to support the claim that QBs get "mentally destroyed" by a bad line. Maybe Carr was just a bad QB. There are plenty of great QBs that suffer through periods of a bad line, and they often play poorly during those periods, and then when the line is repaired they come back to elite levels. Brady, Wilson, Rodgers come to mind.
agree to disagree here
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Look at David Carr. Guy got destroyed in Houston to the point it was mental. When he was playing here (in pre-season), his first instinct was to bail out of perfectly good pockets.
I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones.
this is entirely speculation and there isn't a single shred of evidence to support the claim that QBs get "mentally destroyed" by a bad line. Maybe Carr was just a bad QB. There are plenty of great QBs that suffer through periods of a bad line, and they often play poorly during those periods, and then when the line is repaired they come back to elite levels. Brady, Wilson, Rodgers come to mind.
I said it can ruin a QB, not it will. The line play in Houston absolutely affected Carr's career. The point is, the Giants aren't doing Jones any favors to have success playing behind a poor o-line. And if people say wait until the line is better then Jones will be better, my point is that it may be too late at that time. May be too late, not will be too late.
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In comment 15010483 AcidTest said:
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has no time to throw to receivers who can't separate. He also has no running game. I'm not excusing his fumbling, but that is a lot to overcome.
Fumbles from other NFC East QBs, 2020:
Jones....4***
Wentz....4
Haskins...4
Dak......3
*** 2 fumbles may not have been all his fault (pitch out, and bad ? snap)
Why shrink the sample. To understand the problem you need to include the data from last year. A few fumbles early in the season could represent an outlier. Add the data from last year and you see a pattern.
Forget the past....what have you don’t for me lately.
To make my point.....look at Troy Aikman’s first full year.
[quote] As I've said - I'm fine to seeing how he is throughout the year. I'm not anti-Jones at all.
But - BUT -- But
1-- Isn't it a fact that he locks onto receivers for too long?
Phil Simms was asked this question on BBK this week, his answer:
“No, I ve studied his film, he moves his eyes the way you want and NFL quarterback to do.”
His answer also had something to the effect that he doesn’t like how these ideas get started but the tape does not back it up.
That s Phil Simms. Now he s been dismissed here before as a evaluator of talent at the position, but certainly he is more capable than the critics here to identify Jones’ weaknesses.
Didn't SY say he locked onto his receivers for too long? Am I wrong?
And I thought during either the game vs San Fran or the game vs Rams on TV they went back and showed how he kept locking onto his receivers? For this one I know they did. So you are lumping BBI posters to the TV analysts? And maybe you are lumping in SY with the general BBI crowd?
To make my point.....look at Troy Aikman’s first full year.
Is there a quarterback in the modern era that played on more loaded rosters than Troy Aikman though?
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In comment 15010709 BH28 said:
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Look at David Carr. Guy got destroyed in Houston to the point it was mental. When he was playing here (in pre-season), his first instinct was to bail out of perfectly good pockets.
I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones.
this is entirely speculation and there isn't a single shred of evidence to support the claim that QBs get "mentally destroyed" by a bad line. Maybe Carr was just a bad QB. There are plenty of great QBs that suffer through periods of a bad line, and they often play poorly during those periods, and then when the line is repaired they come back to elite levels. Brady, Wilson, Rodgers come to mind.
I said it can ruin a QB, not it will. The line play in Houston absolutely affected Carr's career. The point is, the Giants aren't doing Jones any favors to have success playing behind a poor o-line. And if people say wait until the line is better then Jones will be better, my point is that it may be too late at that time. May be too late, not will be too late.
and of course i agree a poor line/poor supporting cast can make a great QB play poorly. But Jones does not exhibit the qualities of a great QB. Not yet anyway.
But if we’re looking to assess Jones we should look at video where he has good or adequate line play and still makes mistakes. And yeah, I get it, there isn’t a lot of good line play, but there is some and there are plenty of instances of Jones missing reads or being slow with his progressions or not making progressions or forcing throws.
Anyway, it’s all of the above. The o line is terrible. The TEs are horrible (and actually I think a bigger problem than we realize because they’re giving away plays). Jones has cut down his turn overs, a lot, but he’s still turning the ball over. Our RB1 is injured, again, and wasn’t making plays when he was on the field. Why isn’t Garrett doing...? Ah fuck it, I don’t even know what Garrett can do because there’s such dogshit talent out there. This is just a shit team without any playmakers.
Also, agree with poster above about DJ8, ceiling of Goff and floor of Trubinsky. Also known as, quarterback hell. Remember that one from Getty? How ironic.
I'll have to go back and watch this again but I see too many plays where Jones really seems to lock in on his first read.
From my perspective, there aren't a lot of good-great OLs in the league, so a lot of teams deal with these blocking issues. That's why mobility at QB is imperative in today's game. And I'm not suggesting we don't have issues, but we definitely aren't alone, especially in the NFC Least where all of the OLs are in tatters...
But - BUT -- But
1-- Isn't it a fact that he locks onto receivers for too long?
2-- Are you saying anyone such as SY is flat out wrong that he doesn't think as quick as he should?
3-- This year - GMEN want to give DJones time/ show patience- where would we rate him right now vs other QB's?
4-- For the future -DJones career do we see a top 5 QB, a top 10 QB? Or a top 15 QB? Or not even top 15? Or if it is too early when should we know? After this season? Or after game number 12? Or-- he gets longer than after this season - if so how long?
5-- We had 3 games this year that came down to the bitter end. How many does a top 5 QB win? How many does a top 10 Qb Win? How many does a top 15 QB win?
The kid is in his second year with 2 different coaching staffs..huge disadvantage.
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As I've said - I'm fine to seeing how he is throughout the year. I'm not anti-Jones at all.
But - BUT -- But
1-- Isn't it a fact that he locks onto receivers for too long?
2-- Are you saying anyone such as SY is flat out wrong that he doesn't think as quick as he should?
3-- This year - GMEN want to give DJones time/ show patience- where would we rate him right now vs other QB's?
4-- For the future -DJones career do we see a top 5 QB, a top 10 QB? Or a top 15 QB? Or not even top 15? Or if it is too early when should we know? After this season? Or after game number 12? Or-- he gets longer than after this season - if so how long?
5-- We had 3 games this year that came down to the bitter end. How many does a top 5 QB win? How many does a top 10 Qb Win? How many does a top 15 QB win?
The kid is in his second year with 2 different coaching staffs..huge disadvantage.
Sure-- that very well might be. But on the other hand - it might be the same story we've run into year-over-year- and posters such as yourself may choose to dodge the questions as you've done here and look to pass blame.
Next year it could be--
1-- Barkley is not the same. SO it's not DJ's fault that his number 1 weapon is still not 100%.
2-- The OL was one of the worst in the NFL - so what did you expect in 2021 season?
3-- His wide receiver and TE crew is among the worst in football in 2020, so what did you expect in 2021?
4-- It's the Offensive Coordinator.
5-- Its the OLINE coach.
6-- It's the coach.
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His errors are mental ones. The game often seems to move to fast for him.
With a bit more time, hopefully this can change.
I don’t know these days however if any QB has the luxury of having more than two seasons to prove himself
Nick Foles
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Teddy Bridgewater
Derek Carr
Baker Mayfield
C'mon, Carr and Mayfield showed more in their first two years than it looks like Jones will on his current trajectory. For the bemoaning about Jones and the crap situation he's in with this team, its not like either one of those guys walked into a great situation either. The Browns were 0-16 the year before he got there for christsakes. And I'm not about to go into both guys' gamelog rn, but I'd bet neither of them had a five game stretch as putrid as Jones has had this year.
In his FOURTH season Eli Manning committed 29 turnovers. In week 11 against the Vikings he threw 4 interceptions. Three of them a Pick-6s. General consensus: Manning was a bust and the Giants needed a new QB.
Two months later they were Super Bowl Champions.
In his FOURTH season Eli Manning committed 29 turnovers. In week 11 against the Vikings he threw 4 interceptions. Three of them a Pick-6s. General consensus: Manning was a bust and the Giants needed a new QB.
Two months later they were Super Bowl Champions.
The way Manning played up until that season was considered a disappointment. It was also a playoff-caliber, veteran laden roster. Its not the blueprint anyone should want to follow.
Its also not comparable, because Jones was a lot better than Eli Manning as a rookie. Eli never looked like he regressed from a previously seen high point.
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Can’t win that way. Then again..
In his FOURTH season Eli Manning committed 29 turnovers. In week 11 against the Vikings he threw 4 interceptions. Three of them a Pick-6s. General consensus: Manning was a bust and the Giants needed a new QB.
Two months later they were Super Bowl Champions.
The way Manning played up until that season was considered a disappointment. It was also a playoff-caliber, veteran laden roster. Its not the blueprint anyone should want to follow.
Its also not comparable, because Jones was a lot better than Eli Manning as a rookie. Eli never looked like he regressed from a previously seen high point.
I’m not sure what your point is.
My point: In his 4th season Eli Manning looked awful despite:
1) Playing in the same system with the same coaches all 4 seasons.
2) Having a very good OL
3) Having talented skill players around him: Burress, Toomer, Shockley, Jacobs, Ward.
Jones is playing in a new system, for new coaches, had no preseason, no offseason program, has a shitty OL, little skill players around him. And after 5 games with all that we pass judgement? He hasn’t exactly been put in a situation that breeds success.
The situations aren't the same. Eli manning had every resource to be better than he was. Jones didn't have a lot of help. And had success individually as a QB despite it. Now he looks like a worse player by far.
The situations aren't the same. Eli manning had every resource to be better than he was. Jones didn't have a lot of help. And had success individually as a QB despite it. Now he looks like a worse player by far.
But the resources is the point. Jones has absolutely nothing around him at this point except Slayton, and he’s not the second coming of Jerry Rice. There’s absolutely no running threat with Barkley gone. Daniel Jones is this team’s leading rusher with 130 yards. So it falls on Jones to make plays behind an atrocious line throwing to possibly the worst receiving corps in football. You can’t expect him to progress when everything around him is regressing.