Daniel Jones

as discussed previously, investments made along the OL in 2020 and young QB adjusting to a new scheme are going to take some time and growing pains, and it's not going to be pretty right away with a rookie LT and a C playing the position for the first time.

Those asking for immediate results are going to be disappointed.

On those throws on the run. But his arm strength, deep ball accuracy, and the fact that he barely teases me with arm talent still sucks big time.

With his toughness, accuracy and mobility. Ibwould like to see him throw more anticipation like he did last year. He has regressed there.

The fumbling has got to be fixed. Repeating the same mistake over and over is a big problem. It seems that he locks on so intently that he cannot feel tbe rush.

has no time to throw to receivers who can't separate. He also has no running game. I'm not excusing his fumbling, but that is a lot to overcome.

As I've said - I'm fine to seeing how he is throughout the year. I'm not anti-Jones at all.

But - BUT -- But

1-- Isn't it a fact that he locks onto receivers for too long?

2-- Are you saying anyone such as SY is flat out wrong that he doesn't think as quick as he should?

3-- This year - GMEN want to give DJones time/ show patience- where would we rate him right now vs other QB's?

4-- For the future -DJones career do we see a top 5 QB, a top 10 QB? Or a top 15 QB? Or not even top 15? Or if it is too early when should we know? After this season? Or after game number 12? Or-- he gets longer than after this season - if so how long?

5-- We had 3 games this year that came down to the bitter end. How many does a top 5 QB win? How many does a top 10 Qb Win? How many does a top 15 QB win?

His errors are mental ones. The game often seems to move to fast for him.

With a bit more time, hopefully this can change.

I don’t know these days however if any QB has the luxury of having more than two seasons to prove himself

In comment 15010483 AcidTest said:

Quote:

has no time to throw to receivers who can't separate. He also has no running game. I'm not excusing his fumbling, but that is a lot to overcome.

Fumbles from other NFC East QBs, 2020:
Jones....4***
Wentz....4
Haskins...4
Dak......3

*** 2 fumbles may not have been all his fault (pitch out, and bad ? snap)

In comment 15010500 dlauster said:

Quote:

His errors are mental ones. The game often seems to move to fast for him. With a bit more time, hopefully this can change. I don’t know these days however if any QB has the luxury of having more than two seasons to prove himself

Nick Foles
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Teddy Bridgewater
Derek Carr
Baker Mayfield

In comment 15010505 5BowlsSoon said:

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In comment 15010483 AcidTest said: Quote: has no time to throw to receivers who can't separate. He also has no running game. I'm not excusing his fumbling, but that is a lot to overcome. Fumbles from other NFC East QBs, 2020: Jones....4*** Wentz....4 Haskins...4 Dak......3 *** 2 fumbles may not have been all his fault (pitch out, and bad ? snap)

Why shrink the sample. To understand the problem you need to include the data from last year. A few fumbles early in the season could represent an outlier. Add the data from last year and you see a pattern.

We know the OL was terrible last year. Last season they were 18th in offensive yards and 16th in points.

This season they are 31st and 30th.

I need more than "the OL is bad and jones has no time". Jones was sacked 38 times in 13 games last season. He looked like a QB that was a few tweaks away from being a 10 year starter.

Through 5 games, he's been sacked 16 times. Roughly the same rate. He looks like a mess.

To make me believe he is going to be a good player. Not saying that can't change, but boy I watch him and and saying, this is who we saw as the #4 over all player in the draft???

In comment 15010555 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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We know the OL was terrible last year. Last season they were 18th in offensive yards and 16th in points. This season they are 31st and 30th. I need more than "the OL is bad and jones has no time". Jones was sacked 38 times in 13 games last season. He looked like a QB that was a few tweaks away from being a 10 year starter. The problem could be cumulative. In that case, he might be turing into David Carr. Shepard is also on IR. Through 5 games, he's been sacked 16 times. Roughly the same rate. He looks like a mess.

In comment 15010555 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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We know the OL was terrible last year. Last season they were 18th in offensive yards and 16th in points. This season they are 31st and 30th. I need more than "the OL is bad and jones has no time". Jones was sacked 38 times in 13 games last season. He looked like a QB that was a few tweaks away from being a 10 year starter. Through 5 games, he's been sacked 16 times. Roughly the same rate. He looks like a mess.

The problem could be cumulative. In that case, he might be turing into David Carr. Shepard is also on IR.

When I say good, I mean they will know the playbook and understand the strengths and weaknesses of the players so they employ the best gameplans possible to challenge opponents.

My goals for this season is for us to be sure of three key areas:
-Staff & FO - Judge is HC and we need a new GM (Abrams) and we must be sure we have the right staff members and draft really well.
-D. Jones we must be sure he is our true #1 going forward
-OL must be settled that we have our five starters this year as I believe both Solder & Zeitler will be released due to contracts & play not meeting out.
Thomas-Hernandez-Gates-Lemiuex-Peart - are we set on the OL for 2021 and beyond?

As for defense, we must make sure our young guys can play and that especially include McKinney who would have been the starter over Love.

of a few years ago he would be Dak Prescott

In comment 15010510 5BowlsSoon said:

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In comment 15010500 dlauster said: Quote: His errors are mental ones. The game often seems to move to fast for him. With a bit more time, hopefully this can change. I don’t know these days however if any QB has the luxury of having more than two seasons to prove himself Nick Foles Ryan Fitzpatrick Teddy Bridgewater Derek Carr Baker Mayfield

I'll give you Carr and Mayfield, but the other three almost feel like they are from a different era now....

In comment 15010495 giantstock said:
[quote] As I've said - I'm fine to seeing how he is throughout the year. I'm not anti-Jones at all.

But - BUT -- But

1-- Isn't it a fact that he locks onto receivers for too long?

Phil Simms was asked this question on BBK this week, his answer:

“No, I ve studied his film, he moves his eyes the way you want and NFL quarterback to do.”

His answer also had something to the effect that he doesn’t like how these ideas get started but the tape does not back it up.

That s Phil Simms. Now he s been dismissed here before as a evaluator of talent at the position, but certainly he is more capable than the critics here to identify Jones’ weaknesses.

But there are actually times Jones' gets good protection, enough to make his reads and go through progression and make a decision.

And he makes mistakes. He bails on the pocket too early. He holds the ball too long, resulting in sacks and fumbles, and needless QB hits whilst throwing.

Jones looks really good sometimes and others you wonder if he is going to ever be a winning player. Daniel Jones has the talent to be a good NFL QB, I'm sure of that. But he needs to feel the rush better, and calibrate that internal clock. Sometimes a throwaway is the right decision.

Is no good so why not bring in another QB or play McCoy give him a chance to watch a few games from the sidelines but be careful what you ask for.

Clock is that not discussed every week as they go over film but also remember the clock starts over when he’s on the run not sure anyone can say nows the time to throw it until he’s in position to throw the ball.

Look at David Carr. Guy got destroyed in Houston to the point it was mental. When he was playing here (in pre-season), his first instinct was to bail out of perfectly good pockets.

I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones.

In comment 15010709 BH28 said:

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Look at David Carr. Guy got destroyed in Houston to the point it was mental. When he was playing here (in pre-season), his first instinct was to bail out of perfectly good pockets. I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones.

Absolutely true. I lived in Houston during the Carr years. It was sad to see his career destroyed.

In comment 15010709 BH28 said:

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Look at David Carr. Guy got destroyed in Houston to the point it was mental. When he was playing here (in pre-season), his first instinct was to bail out of perfectly good pockets. I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones.

this is entirely speculation and there isn't a single shred of evidence to support the claim that QBs get "mentally destroyed" by a bad line. Maybe Carr was just a bad QB. There are plenty of great QBs that suffer through periods of a bad line, and they often play poorly during those periods, and then when the line is repaired they come back to elite levels. Brady, Wilson, Rodgers come to mind.

If you watch the video that concentrates on the OL , but focus on Daniel Jones , you can see his physical skills

Even when the OL line blows up he is able to make a play

He does display an accurate and strong arm even on off platform throws
Jones is not helped by his receivers and the play calling is not helping Daniel

The two throws he made while running to his right were not just good they were great

especially for Giants fans who watched Brown/Kanell/Graham/Cherry, etc. He's got more than those guys for sure.

Does that mean he's the guy that leads them to the promised land? I don't know, but players have short windows these days. He's playing in a house of cards just like you said, sometimes that's enough to end a career.

In comment 15010726 Producer said:

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In comment 15010709 BH28 said: Quote: Look at David Carr. Guy got destroyed in Houston to the point it was mental. When he was playing here (in pre-season), his first instinct was to bail out of perfectly good pockets. I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones. this is entirely speculation and there isn't a single shred of evidence to support the claim that QBs get "mentally destroyed" by a bad line. Maybe Carr was just a bad QB. There are plenty of great QBs that suffer through periods of a bad line, and they often play poorly during those periods, and then when the line is repaired they come back to elite levels. Brady, Wilson, Rodgers come to mind.

agree to disagree here

In comment 15010726 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15010709 BH28 said: Quote: Look at David Carr. Guy got destroyed in Houston to the point it was mental. When he was playing here (in pre-season), his first instinct was to bail out of perfectly good pockets. I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones. this is entirely speculation and there isn't a single shred of evidence to support the claim that QBs get "mentally destroyed" by a bad line. Maybe Carr was just a bad QB. There are plenty of great QBs that suffer through periods of a bad line, and they often play poorly during those periods, and then when the line is repaired they come back to elite levels. Brady, Wilson, Rodgers come to mind.

I said it can ruin a QB, not it will. The line play in Houston absolutely affected Carr's career. The point is, the Giants aren't doing Jones any favors to have success playing behind a poor o-line. And if people say wait until the line is better then Jones will be better, my point is that it may be too late at that time. May be too late, not will be too late.

In comment 15010548 Thegratefulhead said:

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In comment 15010505 5BowlsSoon said: Quote: In comment 15010483 AcidTest said: Quote: has no time to throw to receivers who can't separate. He also has no running game. I'm not excusing his fumbling, but that is a lot to overcome. Fumbles from other NFC East QBs, 2020: Jones....4*** Wentz....4 Haskins...4 Dak......3 *** 2 fumbles may not have been all his fault (pitch out, and bad ? snap) Why shrink the sample. To understand the problem you need to include the data from last year. A few fumbles early in the season could represent an outlier. Add the data from last year and you see a pattern.

Forget the past....what have you don’t for me lately.

To make my point.....look at Troy Aikman’s first full year.

In comment 15010685 joeinpa said:

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In comment 15010495 giantstock said: [quote] As I've said - I'm fine to seeing how he is throughout the year. I'm not anti-Jones at all. But - BUT -- But 1-- Isn't it a fact that he locks onto receivers for too long? Phil Simms was asked this question on BBK this week, his answer: “No, I ve studied his film, he moves his eyes the way you want and NFL quarterback to do.” His answer also had something to the effect that he doesn’t like how these ideas get started but the tape does not back it up. That s Phil Simms. Now he s been dismissed here before as a evaluator of talent at the position, but certainly he is more capable than the critics here to identify Jones’ weaknesses.

Didn't SY say he locked onto his receivers for too long? Am I wrong?

And I thought during either the game vs San Fran or the game vs Rams on TV they went back and showed how he kept locking onto his receivers? For this one I know they did. So you are lumping BBI posters to the TV analysts? And maybe you are lumping in SY with the general BBI crowd?

In comment 15010815 5BowlsSoon said:

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To make my point.....look at Troy Aikman’s first full year.

Is there a quarterback in the modern era that played on more loaded rosters than Troy Aikman though?

In comment 15010787 BH28 said:

Quote:

In comment 15010726 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15010709 BH28 said: Quote: Look at David Carr. Guy got destroyed in Houston to the point it was mental. When he was playing here (in pre-season), his first instinct was to bail out of perfectly good pockets. I think we saw a little bit of that with Eli late in his career too. I think it's a valid concern that by the time the line gets fixed, the mental damage might already have been done to Jones. this is entirely speculation and there isn't a single shred of evidence to support the claim that QBs get "mentally destroyed" by a bad line. Maybe Carr was just a bad QB. There are plenty of great QBs that suffer through periods of a bad line, and they often play poorly during those periods, and then when the line is repaired they come back to elite levels. Brady, Wilson, Rodgers come to mind. I said it can ruin a QB, not it will. The line play in Houston absolutely affected Carr's career. The point is, the Giants aren't doing Jones any favors to have success playing behind a poor o-line. And if people say wait until the line is better then Jones will be better, my point is that it may be too late at that time. May be too late, not will be too late.

and of course i agree a poor line/poor supporting cast can make a great QB play poorly. But Jones does not exhibit the qualities of a great QB. Not yet anyway.

First, OP, the linked vid is focused on the o line and the guy that made the video said he was only showing bad o line plays. So, the linked video is all lousy o line plays. And yeah, so in that video Jones is under assault and he actually makes some good plays.

But if we’re looking to assess Jones we should look at video where he has good or adequate line play and still makes mistakes. And yeah, I get it, there isn’t a lot of good line play, but there is some and there are plenty of instances of Jones missing reads or being slow with his progressions or not making progressions or forcing throws.

Anyway, it’s all of the above. The o line is terrible. The TEs are horrible (and actually I think a bigger problem than we realize because they’re giving away plays). Jones has cut down his turn overs, a lot, but he’s still turning the ball over. Our RB1 is injured, again, and wasn’t making plays when he was on the field. Why isn’t Garrett doing...? Ah fuck it, I don’t even know what Garrett can do because there’s such dogshit talent out there. This is just a shit team without any playmakers.

Also, agree with poster above about DJ8, ceiling of Goff and floor of Trubinsky. Also known as, quarterback hell. Remember that one from Getty? How ironic.

looks like a young Bart Oats.

I'll have to go back and watch this again but I see too many plays where Jones really seems to lock in on his first read.

From my perspective, there aren't a lot of good-great OLs in the league, so a lot of teams deal with these blocking issues. That's why mobility at QB is imperative in today's game. And I'm not suggesting we don't have issues, but we definitely aren't alone, especially in the NFC Least where all of the OLs are in tatters...

In comment 15010495 giantstock said:

Quote:

As I've said - I'm fine to seeing how he is throughout the year. I'm not anti-Jones at all. But - BUT -- But 1-- Isn't it a fact that he locks onto receivers for too long? 2-- Are you saying anyone such as SY is flat out wrong that he doesn't think as quick as he should? 3-- This year - GMEN want to give DJones time/ show patience- where would we rate him right now vs other QB's? 4-- For the future -DJones career do we see a top 5 QB, a top 10 QB? Or a top 15 QB? Or not even top 15? Or if it is too early when should we know? After this season? Or after game number 12? Or-- he gets longer than after this season - if so how long? 5-- We had 3 games this year that came down to the bitter end. How many does a top 5 QB win? How many does a top 10 Qb Win? How many does a top 15 QB win?

The kid is in his second year with 2 different coaching staffs..huge disadvantage.

In comment 15010958 JohnnyFlowers said:

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In comment 15010495 giantstock said: Quote: As I've said - I'm fine to seeing how he is throughout the year. I'm not anti-Jones at all. But - BUT -- But 1-- Isn't it a fact that he locks onto receivers for too long? 2-- Are you saying anyone such as SY is flat out wrong that he doesn't think as quick as he should? 3-- This year - GMEN want to give DJones time/ show patience- where would we rate him right now vs other QB's? 4-- For the future -DJones career do we see a top 5 QB, a top 10 QB? Or a top 15 QB? Or not even top 15? Or if it is too early when should we know? After this season? Or after game number 12? Or-- he gets longer than after this season - if so how long? 5-- We had 3 games this year that came down to the bitter end. How many does a top 5 QB win? How many does a top 10 Qb Win? How many does a top 15 QB win? The kid is in his second year with 2 different coaching staffs..huge disadvantage.

Sure-- that very well might be. But on the other hand - it might be the same story we've run into year-over-year- and posters such as yourself may choose to dodge the questions as you've done here and look to pass blame.

Next year it could be--

1-- Barkley is not the same. SO it's not DJ's fault that his number 1 weapon is still not 100%.

2-- The OL was one of the worst in the NFL - so what did you expect in 2021 season?

3-- His wide receiver and TE crew is among the worst in football in 2020, so what did you expect in 2021?

4-- It's the Offensive Coordinator.

5-- Its the OLINE coach.

6-- It's the coach.

or God forbid two in a row. Until then the negativity will pile on and on.

In comment 15010510 5BowlsSoon said:

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In comment 15010500 dlauster said: Quote: His errors are mental ones. The game often seems to move to fast for him. With a bit more time, hopefully this can change. I don’t know these days however if any QB has the luxury of having more than two seasons to prove himself Nick Foles Ryan Fitzpatrick Teddy Bridgewater Derek Carr Baker Mayfield

C'mon, Carr and Mayfield showed more in their first two years than it looks like Jones will on his current trajectory. For the bemoaning about Jones and the crap situation he's in with this team, its not like either one of those guys walked into a great situation either. The Browns were 0-16 the year before he got there for christsakes. And I'm not about to go into both guys' gamelog rn, but I'd bet neither of them had a five game stretch as putrid as Jones has had this year.

Simply doesn’t have it. I don’t want a lukewarm Kirk Cousins talent being the franchise for the next 15 years.

Can’t win that way. Then again..

In his FOURTH season Eli Manning committed 29 turnovers. In week 11 against the Vikings he threw 4 interceptions. Three of them a Pick-6s. General consensus: Manning was a bust and the Giants needed a new QB.

Two months later they were Super Bowl Champions.

In comment 15011246 Jim in Fairfax said:

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Can’t win that way. Then again.. In his FOURTH season Eli Manning committed 29 turnovers. In week 11 against the Vikings he threw 4 interceptions. Three of them a Pick-6s. General consensus: Manning was a bust and the Giants needed a new QB. Two months later they were Super Bowl Champions.

The way Manning played up until that season was considered a disappointment. It was also a playoff-caliber, veteran laden roster. Its not the blueprint anyone should want to follow.

Its also not comparable, because Jones was a lot better than Eli Manning as a rookie. Eli never looked like he regressed from a previously seen high point.

In comment 15011260 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 15011246 Jim in Fairfax said: Quote: Can’t win that way. Then again.. In his FOURTH season Eli Manning committed 29 turnovers. In week 11 against the Vikings he threw 4 interceptions. Three of them a Pick-6s. General consensus: Manning was a bust and the Giants needed a new QB. Two months later they were Super Bowl Champions. The way Manning played up until that season was considered a disappointment. It was also a playoff-caliber, veteran laden roster. Its not the blueprint anyone should want to follow. Its also not comparable, because Jones was a lot better than Eli Manning as a rookie. Eli never looked like he regressed from a previously seen high point.

I’m not sure what your point is.

My point: In his 4th season Eli Manning looked awful despite:

1) Playing in the same system with the same coaches all 4 seasons.
2) Having a very good OL
3) Having talented skill players around him: Burress, Toomer, Shockley, Jacobs, Ward.

Jones is playing in a new system, for new coaches, had no preseason, no offseason program, has a shitty OL, little skill players around him. And after 5 games with all that we pass judgement? He hasn’t exactly been put in a situation that breeds success.

The supporting cast wasn't so great last year, and he showed promise. In fact he looked like he was ahead of other rookie QBs in his class.

The situations aren't the same. Eli manning had every resource to be better than he was. Jones didn't have a lot of help. And had success individually as a QB despite it. Now he looks like a worse player by far.

In comment 15011330 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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The supporting cast wasn't so great last year, and he showed promise. In fact he looked like he was ahead of other rookie QBs in his class. The situations aren't the same. Eli manning had every resource to be better than he was. Jones didn't have a lot of help. And had success individually as a QB despite it. Now he looks like a worse player by far.

But the resources is the point. Jones has absolutely nothing around him at this point except Slayton, and he’s not the second coming of Jerry Rice. There’s absolutely no running threat with Barkley gone. Daniel Jones is this team’s leading rusher with 130 yards. So it falls on Jones to make plays behind an atrocious line throwing to possibly the worst receiving corps in football. You can’t expect him to progress when everything around him is regressing.