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Being "competitive" doesn't mean anything

Blue The Dog : 10/16/2020 3:11 pm
I keep reading that people are happy to see that we are competitive. That this team isn't a complete disaster because we are still in these games, and that means we are close. For some, close games late means that the arrow is pointed in the right direction, and we will soon be gathering the wins. I don't think it means anything to be in these games late.

Lets look back at the past 3 years of Giants football. The team has lost a combined 36 games in the 2017-2019 seasons. in those losses, 28 of them the Giants have either gone into the 4th with it being a 1 score game, had the lead in the 4th, or made it a 1 score game within the 4th (I excluded a few games where the giants scored in garbage time to make it a 1 score game, as this doesn't indicate a "competitive game).

That is over 3/4 of the losses in the past 3 seasons. None of these "competitive" losses have lead to future success. None of them have lead to us being better next season. My point on all of this is that for this team to show that there is growth, they need to actually show it with wins, not some arbitrary "being in games."
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RE: So we wouldn't be any worse off if we were not in games  
GMen72 : 10/16/2020 5:33 pm : link
In comment 15010789 UberAlias said:
Quote:
and were uncompetitive? Okay...


We'd be better off if we had Bosa and Young.
RE: The team is deficient in talent  
Blue The Dog : 10/16/2020 5:38 pm : link
In comment 15010793 UberAlias said:
Quote:
The fact that they're competing with more talented teams is a favorable sign for the new head coach.


The entire point of this post is to show that your comment could have been made about any single one of the last 3 years. This same comment made a year or two ago under Shurmur would look pretty foolish now.
You keep saying the same thing  
UConn4523 : 10/16/2020 5:42 pm : link
yet people don’t agree with you. What are you trying to prove?

This is as subjective as it gets.
RE: You keep saying the same thing  
Blue The Dog : 10/16/2020 5:53 pm : link
In comment 15010821 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
yet people don’t agree with you. What are you trying to prove?

This is as subjective as it gets.


Its a discussion board. I felt others were misunderstanding the point I was trying to get across, so I was responding. I stopped responding to your comments specifically, as you made it clear it was a "agree to disagree" situation which I respected.

I really don't see what the issue is.
RE: And what’s the context?  
giantstock : 10/16/2020 6:05 pm : link
In comment 15010711 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
last year we were in all those games late because we faced soft defenses, no?

If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.


This is the same tired noise we hear from posters like you and joe over-and-over - year-over year.
RE: Disagree with this....  
giantstock : 10/16/2020 6:08 pm : link
In comment 15010740 John In CO said:
Quote:
I know everybody hates to play the "what if" game, but cmon...think about it

Pittsburgh....if DJ doesnt throw that INT deep in the Red Zone, and thats a TD instead of a turnover...who knows what happens?

Chicago...again, they were deep in the Red Zone and one play away from winning that game with a TD.

SF-Ok...got their asses kicked

Rams-AGAIN, took it right down to the wire, one play away

Dallas- See Pitt, Chi and Rams above...right there, a few things go their way, they win that game

And this is with a putrid Oline and one legitimate WR! I still feel they need good play from that #2 corner, some improved play from the OLine (ok, alot of improved play) and SOMEONE to fill the #1 WR role! And also, it will be nice to see our high 2nd rd draft pick play at some point (hopefully) I anticipated a 1-4 start so 0-5 isn't that far off. And they have been more competitive in games than I thought they would be.

I think some people here arent happy unless they are bitching and complaining and criticizing and arguing...just in love with being miserable. Losing sucks, but at least I dont find myself turning games off by the beginning of the 4th quarter. baby steps.


And ditto back at you.

The fact you are playing the "What-if" game is comical. Beyond comical. I mean c'mon--

Awww  
UConn4523 : 10/16/2020 6:08 pm : link
are you butt hurt your football team isn’t very good?

No idea how some of you function in real life.
It does seem  
dlauster : 10/16/2020 6:53 pm : link
To be the type of word one only uses for teams that kind of suck. No one refers to the Chiefs as competitive.....
Some of these games seemed competitive  
phil in arizona : 10/16/2020 7:03 pm : link
but they really weren't.

Over the last however many years, teams would play an ultra conservative offense against us because they knew our offense couldn't move the ball. Then they'd open things up in the 2nd half when our defense was winded.

We haven't played competitive ball in a while.

That being said, I'll take a loss where we did well in some phases over a loss where we couldn't do anything right.
RE: Awww  
giantstock : 10/16/2020 7:17 pm : link
In comment 15010832 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
are you butt hurt your football team isn’t very good?

No idea how some of you function in real life.



I'm "hurt?"

I'm "hurt" because you and others make excuses and that is causing me to be hurt? Huh??

You have a word to describe me - well how about I have a word for you? -- "Delusional."




LOL. Man, we've fallen far when people  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/16/2020 7:26 pm : link
are hoping for competitive games.
RE: RE: Awww  
UConn4523 : 10/16/2020 7:30 pm : link
In comment 15010866 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15010832 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


are you butt hurt your football team isn’t very good?

No idea how some of you function in real life.




I'm "hurt?"

I'm "hurt" because you and others make excuses and that is causing me to be hurt? Huh??

You have a word to describe me - well how about I have a word for you? -- "Delusional."





Delusional? Because I don’t care if we stink?

Fine, I’m delusional. If the giants finish 0-16 I’ll be just fine. You might be on suicide watch, however.

Its a fucking game, get over it.
Eh...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/16/2020 7:32 pm : link
I see both sides. Yes, it's just a game, but we are obviously Giants fanatics, as we're positing on a sports board about said team. I don't have a problem blowing off steam. We've been trash for years now.
RE: Eh...  
UConn4523 : 10/16/2020 7:37 pm : link
In comment 15010869 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I see both sides. Yes, it's just a game, but we are obviously Giants fanatics, as we're positing on a sports board about said team. I don't have a problem blowing off steam. We've been trash for years now.


And that’s fine. But this thread was created to tell everyone how they should be thinking. Any contrasting response was met with a different version of what “competitive” means.

To me we seem better than last year. That isn’t delusion, it’s what my eyes see. If someone disagrees it’s all good, I’m not trying to change their mind.

People are trying way too hard to be right. That’s the issue with BBI.
RE: ...  
BigBlueShock : 10/16/2020 7:38 pm : link
In comment 15010752 christian said:
Quote:
I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.

It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.

Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.

Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...

RE: RE: Eh...  
Blue The Dog : 10/16/2020 7:45 pm : link
In comment 15010871 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15010869 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


I see both sides. Yes, it's just a game, but we are obviously Giants fanatics, as we're positing on a sports board about said team. I don't have a problem blowing off steam. We've been trash for years now.



And that’s fine. But this thread was created to tell everyone how they should be thinking. Any contrasting response was met with a different version of what “competitive” means.

To me we seem better than last year. That isn’t delusion, it’s what my eyes see. If someone disagrees it’s all good, I’m not trying to change their mind.

People are trying way too hard to be right. That’s the issue with BBI.


Okay, I wasn't going to respond, like I said before, but now you are putting words and intentions into my mouth. I posted an opinion, with facts to back it up. I then responded, in respectful form, to others who I felt weren't getting the point of my post. If people didn't post opinions, and respond to reactions to that opinion, what would a discussion board be?

Once you said that your definition of a "competitive" wasn't the way I defined it in my factual stats, I left things be, but you just keep coming at it. All I did was post literal game log facts and try to have others understand my interpretation of those facts, but apparently that's an inappropriate use a discussion board to you
RE: RE: RE: Awww  
giantstock : 10/16/2020 8:04 pm : link
In comment 15010868 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15010866 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15010832 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


are you butt hurt your football team isn’t very good?

No idea how some of you function in real life.




I'm "hurt?"

I'm "hurt" because you and others make excuses and that is causing me to be hurt? Huh??

You have a word to describe me - well how about I have a word for you? -- "Delusional."







Delusional? Because I don’t care if we stink?

Fine, I’m delusional. If the giants finish 0-16 I’ll be just fine. You might be on suicide watch, however.

Its a fucking game, get over it.


Delusional because you said I'm hurt on suicide watch etc - because I think posters such as you keep making excuses.

This makes me "hurt?" And then you mention "suicide?" Are you nuts? My point is that you sound delusional -- you suggest I am - why? Because all I did is suggest you keep making excuses?

In other words- I don't support your view so I MUST be angry or suicidal/ This is the same exact type of crap we've heard from posters like you prior to this year - those that defended DG and thought the team "was headed in the right direction." You make extreme exaggerations because maybe you want to only read cheerlead posts?

Last you year many of that knew Dg was incompetent were called - haters, miserable etc. Now I'm suicidal because I'm arguing with you?
RE: RE: RE: Eh...  
giantstock : 10/16/2020 8:12 pm : link
In comment 15010875 Blue The Dog said:
Quote:
In comment 15010871 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15010869 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


I see both sides. Yes, it's just a game, but we are obviously Giants fanatics, as we're positing on a sports board about said team. I don't have a problem blowing off steam. We've been trash for years now.



And that’s fine. But this thread was created to tell everyone how they should be thinking. Any contrasting response was met with a different version of what “competitive” means.

To me we seem better than last year. That isn’t delusion, it’s what my eyes see. If someone disagrees it’s all good, I’m not trying to change their mind.

People are trying way too hard to be right. That’s the issue with BBI.



Okay, I wasn't going to respond, like I said before, but now you are putting words and intentions into my mouth. I posted an opinion, with facts to back it up. I then responded, in respectful form, to others who I felt weren't getting the point of my post. If people didn't post opinions, and respond to reactions to that opinion, what would a discussion board be?

Once you said that your definition of a "competitive" wasn't the way I defined it in my factual stats, I left things be, but you just keep coming at it. All I did was post literal game log facts and try to have others understand my interpretation of those facts, but apparently that's an inappropriate use a discussion board to you


I believe others want to argue with you because you used the word "anything." I think you meant "much," right?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Eh...  
Blue The Dog : 10/16/2020 8:19 pm : link
In comment 15010886 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15010875 Blue The Dog said:


Quote:


In comment 15010871 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15010869 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


I see both sides. Yes, it's just a game, but we are obviously Giants fanatics, as we're positing on a sports board about said team. I don't have a problem blowing off steam. We've been trash for years now.



And that’s fine. But this thread was created to tell everyone how they should be thinking. Any contrasting response was met with a different version of what “competitive” means.

To me we seem better than last year. That isn’t delusion, it’s what my eyes see. If someone disagrees it’s all good, I’m not trying to change their mind.

People are trying way too hard to be right. That’s the issue with BBI.



Okay, I wasn't going to respond, like I said before, but now you are putting words and intentions into my mouth. I posted an opinion, with facts to back it up. I then responded, in respectful form, to others who I felt weren't getting the point of my post. If people didn't post opinions, and respond to reactions to that opinion, what would a discussion board be?

Once you said that your definition of a "competitive" wasn't the way I defined it in my factual stats, I left things be, but you just keep coming at it. All I did was post literal game log facts and try to have others understand my interpretation of those facts, but apparently that's an inappropriate use a discussion board to you



I believe others want to argue with you because you used the word "anything." I think you meant "much," right?


Yeah, I would agree with that. I could have chosen my words better in that respect.
I'm not into moral victories either...  
bw in dc : 10/16/2020 8:30 pm : link
but the defensive side of the ball seems like they have crossed into the competent zone. So give Graham some early props here...
RE: I'm not into moral victories either...  
giantstock : 10/16/2020 11:23 pm : link
In comment 15010892 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but the defensive side of the ball seems like they have crossed into the competent zone. So give Graham some early props here...


And it's possible by the time the offense gets built up - the defense might slack off. Hope that's not the case- but if so-- but how much does it matter if this year we lose by 3 instead of 30? We have more viewing fun but if at-the-end-of-the-day if nothing leads to successful seasons and ultimately be near-the-top- what are we fans of-- "The Pittsburg Pirates?" Happy to go "82-79?"
RE: The bar for competitive has also been defined downward  
FStubbs : 10/17/2020 7:54 am : link
In comment 15010729 japanhead said:
Quote:
They lost to the Rams by two scores and didn't score a touchdown, but some said they looked competitive.

They lost by four points to the Bears, put up 13 total points, and the offense choked big time in the 4th. Some said they looked competitive.

They lost by two scores to the Steelers, with one TD coming in garbage time. Some said they looked competitive or were encouraged because they weren't blown out (even though they were).

Its to the point that saying they were competitive is meaningless, the domain of imagination and wishful thinking.

They arguably did not even look competitive against the Cowboys.


This. Our so called high rank defense is only high rank because other teams know they can just get a lead and sit on it. The defense hasn't stopped one team yet when they needed to.
RE: I'm not into moral victories either...  
FStubbs : 10/17/2020 7:55 am : link
In comment 15010892 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but the defensive side of the ball seems like they have crossed into the competent zone. So give Graham some early props here...


See above. The defense isn't competent.
RE: RE: And what’s the context?  
joeinpa : 10/17/2020 8:10 am : link
In comment 15010830 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15010711 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


last year we were in all those games late because we faced soft defenses, no?

If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.



This is the same tired noise we hear from posters like you and joe over-and-over - year-over year.


I think you might be wrong in the year after year thing regarding me. I was anything but hopeful during Eli s final two seasons. It wasn t until the young quarterback was in place that I began to post about positive signs.

I still expect this team to hit a stretch where close but no cigar become victories, even some unexpected ones.

I m curious, though. why do you refer to optimism as tired noise? I watch the Giants for fun, excitement an escape from reality.

It was hard to do this without a young quarterback in place when you knew they were never winning with Eli again.

So it becomes fun again when you believe there is a chance they are headed in right direction

But I don’t want to be a poster that is a source of annoyance, I will refrain from being overly optimistic. but you should also not be taking opposing views personally
RE: RE: The team is deficient in talent  
UberAlias : 10/17/2020 8:12 am : link
In comment 15010819 Blue The Dog said:
Quote:
In comment 15010793 UberAlias said:


Quote:


The fact that they're competing with more talented teams is a favorable sign for the new head coach.



The entire point of this post is to show that your comment could have been made about any single one of the last 3 years. This same comment made a year or two ago under Shurmur would look pretty foolish now.
You think Shurmur had them competing above their talent level? I don’t.
RE: RE: So we wouldn't be any worse off if we were not in games  
UberAlias : 10/17/2020 8:18 am : link
In comment 15010812 GMen72 said:
Quote:
In comment 15010789 UberAlias said:


Quote:


and were uncompetitive? Okay...



We'd be better off if we had Bosa and Young.
I don’t understand your comment. I’d rather be competing, ala NYG, than turning out the shit show the other team who plays in our stadium. The Giants are bad. But the Jets are an abominable disaster.
RE: LOL. Man, we've fallen far when people  
UberAlias : 10/17/2020 8:21 am : link
In comment 15010867 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
are hoping for competitive games.
No shit we’ve fallen. Those are the facts of where this team is right now.
joeinpa  
UConn4523 : 10/17/2020 8:53 am : link
spot on. I’m always going to be optimistic as a sports fan. From my shitty Giants right up to the always pretty good (sometimes excellent) Yankees. It isn’t delusion to choose to look at the bright side of things. I’m not gambling on them winning, I don’t think the Giants are going to be awesome.

Similarly I find myself not really posting too much on Giants threads anymore (definitely not as much as I used to). The wolves have been out for a while now and something as simple as thinking the defense is improved is met with what you see here (which admittedly is more tame than it usually is).

I can bitch all day about what I think is wrong with the Giants. I choose not to, it isn’t fun for me.
joeinpa & UConn  
Sean : 10/17/2020 9:08 am : link
I agree with both of you. BBI is extremely polarizing right now with regards to the state of the team.

There are reasons for where the Giants are right now. It’s reasonable to understand the difficulty of moving off franchise legends. The Giants stuck with Eli too long, but it isn’t uncommon for teams to do this. Aside from Brady & Ben, no other QB in recent history has won multiple Super Bowls with the same team. So, I fully understand the struggle in moving off Eli. There’s always a human element to sports and business, it played out with Eli.

The rest of the year is about evaluating Jones. I like the coaching staff and I’m pleased with the competitiveness they have shown against some tough teams.

Let’s see how the season plays out. I will say that I don’t want the Giants to be married to Jones just because he was picked #6. If we are picking in the top 5, there needs to be an honest, unbiased evaluation of the QB position.
To each their  
crick n NC : 10/17/2020 9:10 am : link
Own is forgotten on here regularly or just ignored to deliberately argue.
Sean  
UConn4523 : 10/17/2020 9:15 am : link
I share similar thoughts on Jones. If we are picking top 2 or 3 I believe that means we need an upgrade as clearly Jones isn’t winning games that I believe a better QB would have.

But that’s really it. The games still need to be played and I don’t feel the need to express that opinion on every single thread, especially threads discussing other players (like we so often see with several posters).
OP is right  
ThisIsMyBBIname : 10/17/2020 9:20 am : link
Outside of the 2nd year of McAdoo, this team HAS been "competitive". How many last second losses on million yard field goals have there been? How many games have been thrown away due to costly penalties? There was definitely a "Giants losses on final drive" stat being thrown around because the defense couldn't get that one last stop. Its why the front office thought it just needed to just tinker a little bit around Eli rather than embrace a full rebuild in the first place.

People get upset about criticism of Jones, but he had a chance to shut a lot of people up by just getting into field goal range last week. Being "competitive" in the loss to Dallas meant nothing to me since the quarterback still couldn't find the endzone. I realize Jones has led comebacks against Tampa and Wash, but a game winning drive against Dallas could've been a defining moment for him, much like it was for Eli.
Really? Arguing about subjective takes as to what  
LBH15 : 10/17/2020 9:37 am : link
constitutes "being competitive"?

12-41 record in last 3+ years carries a lot of credibility that the Giants are indeed not competitive versus most of the league.

However, they have shown to be competitive at times within certain games. And while fans have to look hard to see that, right now that is about all we have.

It's not easy to be a fan.



I think its easy  
UConn4523 : 10/17/2020 9:40 am : link
no issues being a fan for this guy.
RE: RE: I'm not into moral victories either...  
bw in dc : 10/17/2020 10:00 am : link
In comment 15011014 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15010892 bw in dc said:


Quote:


but the defensive side of the ball seems like they have crossed into the competent zone. So give Graham some early props here...



See above. The defense isn't competent.


I’m not talking’85 Bears. I’m talking competent.

They get no help, either, from an offense scoring 16ppg. Which is skewed because we played Dallas last week.

Great. Now you ares going to stir up an argument  
LBH15 : 10/17/2020 10:01 am : link
on what a real fan is or is not.

:-)
Naa  
UConn4523 : 10/17/2020 10:12 am : link
not my thread. The whole “who’s a bigger fan” arguments should die when you stop being a teenager. The guy spending money on PSLs and season tickets is no bigger fan than someone sitting on their couch.
RE: RE: ...  
BurberryManning : 10/17/2020 10:21 am : link
In comment 15010872 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15010752 christian said:


Quote:


I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.

It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.

Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.


Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...
FYI, it appears that the Giants are not the youngest team in the NFL, rather they are the 9th youngest, or were after cut-down day.
Ranking NFL teams by age - ( New Window )
RE: Naa  
LBH15 : 10/17/2020 10:24 am : link
In comment 15011101 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
not my thread. The whole “who’s a bigger fan” arguments should die when you stop being a teenager. The guy spending money on PSLs and season tickets is no bigger fan than someone sitting on their couch.


It it a silly argument. Much like the one in this thread.
RE: RE: RE: And what’s the context?  
giantstock : 10/17/2020 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15011021 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15010830 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15010711 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


last year we were in all those games late because we faced soft defenses, no?

If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.



This is the same tired noise we hear from posters like you and joe over-and-over - year-over year.



I think you might be wrong in the year after year thing regarding me. I was anything but hopeful during Eli s final two seasons. It wasn t until the young quarterback was in place that I began to post about positive signs.

I still expect this team to hit a stretch where close but no cigar become victories, even some unexpected ones.

I m curious, though. why do you refer to optimism as tired noise? I watch the Giants for fun, excitement an escape from reality.

It was hard to do this without a young quarterback in place when you knew they were never winning with Eli again.

So it becomes fun again when you believe there is a chance they are headed in right direction

But I don’t want to be a poster that is a source of annoyance, I will refrain from being overly optimistic. but you should also not be taking opposing views personally


First on the personal then on the "tiresome" as they relate to each other. This post I'm making if uconn4523 is also reading please let him know it's not an angry post and I'm not about to commit suicide. --

In regards to personal--joe - why is it that you are coming at me 1st when it was uconn4523 that suggested that I was "butt hurt?" . Am I the one that started it? On here, I've been called a miserable person. A hater etc. And worse. Even your posts - while you don't do personal you do soft digs on posters that don't share your optimistic view sometimes, don't you? Though you don';t do it often and are nothing near harsh. For example a post you replied to me on you quoted Phil Simms regarding DJones locking on to receivers-- You disagreed with my comment that he locks onto receivers- and felt a need to dig on me/ and others a bit, right? Here's your quote-

------------------
"That's Phil Simms. Now he s been dismissed here before as a evaluator of talent at the position, but certainly he is more capable than the critics here to identify Jones’ weaknesses."
--------------------------------

then as quoted above you went on to take a soft dig at BBI posters (me in particular)that they were the only ones who were suggesting this. But it wasn't just BBI critics/posters that think this way. I'm guessing you had to know that, right?

You could've just let your comment stand that you agree with Phil Simms but you took an extra step to throw a dig at posters who don't agree with you. I'm not complaining I do it- as many do- and you do it very very few times but you recently did it, right? All-the-while suggesting I take things too personal yet wasn't it uc0nn4523 that started it? And I'm not supposed to have some fun back and respond?

In terms of optimism and aksing me why it's tiresome-- if oyu have it but dig on others who dodn't support your POV, then ofc it's a little annoying.

I hope you will continue to post your optimism. Just expect sometimes if you are doing a little dig - you can expect one back. None of us were hurt, right?

And to further football talk-- oyu know I'm okay with DJones, right? I'm just okay with replacing him with Lawrence if the chance should arise. I don't feel Jones is special like you but I feel he can be okay - ofc need to see more.

In terms of year-over-year I meant with DG. Am I wrong to suggest that you were on board with the Barkley pick? You were on board with Solder? Overall you were on board with what DG did in 2018? What do you think of Hernandez and Carter in rounds 2 and 3? DO you think we got good value in the OBJ trade? DO you think we could've traded Collins early? DO you trading picks for Ogeltree was good? DO you think the following year going after a number 3 WR in Tate who is pretty old in a rebuild was good?
Being competitive  
WillVAB : 10/17/2020 4:09 pm : link
Doesn’t mean shit. Being close on the scoreboard doesn’t negate the fatal flaws on this roster that won’t be fixed overnight.
RE: RE: RE: RE: And what’s the context?  
joeinpa : 10/17/2020 6:59 pm : link
In comment 15011162 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15011021 joeinpa said:


Quote:


In comment 15010830 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15010711 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


last year we were in all those games late because we faced soft defenses, no?

If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.



This is the same tired noise we hear from posters like you and joe over-and-over - year-over year.



I think you might be wrong in the year after year thing regarding me. I was anything but hopeful during Eli s final two seasons. It wasn t until the young quarterback was in place that I began to post about positive signs.

I still expect this team to hit a stretch where close but no cigar become victories, even some unexpected ones.

I m curious, though. why do you refer to optimism as tired noise? I watch the Giants for fun, excitement an escape from reality.

It was hard to do this without a young quarterback in place when you knew they were never winning with Eli again.

So it becomes fun again when you believe there is a chance they are headed in right direction

But I don’t want to be a poster that is a source of annoyance, I will refrain from being overly optimistic. but you should also not be taking opposing views personally



First on the personal then on the "tiresome" as they relate to each other. This post I'm making if uconn4523 is also reading please let him know it's not an angry post and I'm not about to commit suicide. --

In regards to personal--joe - why is it that you are coming at me 1st when it was uconn4523 that suggested that I was "butt hurt?" . Am I the one that started it? On here, I've been called a miserable person. A hater etc. And worse. Even your posts - while you don't do personal you do soft digs on posters that don't share your optimistic view sometimes, don't you? Though you don';t do it often and are nothing near harsh. For example a post you replied to me on you quoted Phil Simms regarding DJones locking on to receivers-- You disagreed with my comment that he locks onto receivers- and felt a need to dig on me/ and others a bit, right? Here's your quote-

------------------
"That's Phil Simms. Now he s been dismissed here before as a evaluator of talent at the position, but certainly he is more capable than the critics here to identify Jones’ weaknesses."
--------------------------------

then as quoted above you went on to take a soft dig at BBI posters (me in particular)that they were the only ones who were suggesting this. But it wasn't just BBI critics/posters that think this way. I'm guessing you had to know that, right?

You could've just let your comment stand that you agree with Phil Simms but you took an extra step to throw a dig at posters who don't agree with you. I'm not complaining I do it- as many do- and you do it very very few times but you recently did it, right? All-the-while suggesting I take things too personal yet wasn't it uc0nn4523 that started it? And I'm not supposed to have some fun back and respond?

In terms of optimism and aksing me why it's tiresome-- if oyu have it but dig on others who dodn't support your POV, then ofc it's a little annoying.

I hope you will continue to post your optimism. Just expect sometimes if you are doing a little dig - you can expect one back. None of us were hurt, right?

And to further football talk-- oyu know I'm okay with DJones, right? I'm just okay with replacing him with Lawrence if the chance should arise. I don't feel Jones is special like you but I feel he can be okay - ofc need to see more.

In terms of year-over-year I meant with DG. Am I wrong to suggest that you were on board with the Barkley pick? You were on board with Solder? Overall you were on board with what DG did in 2018? What do you think of Hernandez and Carter in rounds 2 and 3? DO you think we got good value in the OBJ trade? DO you think we could've traded Collins early? DO you trading picks for Ogeltree was good? DO you think the following year going after a number 3 WR in Tate who is pretty old in a rebuild was good?


Giants stock, really didn’t mean it as a dig at you. I ll be honest, I read a lot of posts without really paying much attention to who posted them.

I just remembered last time I quoted Simms, there were posts that dismissed it.

I think I was qualifying my post about Simms before it would be dismissed again.

Really. It was not intended as a dig at you personally or anyone else.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
BigBlueShock : 10/17/2020 7:16 pm : link
In comment 15011104 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
In comment 15010872 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 15010752 christian said:


Quote:


I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.

It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.

Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.


Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...


FYI, it appears that the Giants are not the youngest team in the NFL, rather they are the 9th youngest, or were after cut-down day. Ranking NFL teams by age - ( New Window )

The Giants have the youngest starting lineup in the NFL. I should have been more specific. I don’t particularly care about 3rd stringers or 40 year old backup QBs swaying the numbers. Those guys don’t play much. The important guys are the starters. The guys on the field.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And what’s the context?  
giantstock : 10/17/2020 8:17 pm : link
In comment 15011328 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15011162 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15011021 joeinpa said:


Quote:


In comment 15010830 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15010711 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


last year we were in all those games late because we faced soft defenses, no?

If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.



This is the same tired noise we hear from posters like you and joe over-and-over - year-over year.



I think you might be wrong in the year after year thing regarding me. I was anything but hopeful during Eli s final two seasons. It wasn t until the young quarterback was in place that I began to post about positive signs.

I still expect this team to hit a stretch where close but no cigar become victories, even some unexpected ones.

I m curious, though. why do you refer to optimism as tired noise? I watch the Giants for fun, excitement an escape from reality.

It was hard to do this without a young quarterback in place when you knew they were never winning with Eli again.

So it becomes fun again when you believe there is a chance they are headed in right direction

But I don’t want to be a poster that is a source of annoyance, I will refrain from being overly optimistic. but you should also not be taking opposing views personally



First on the personal then on the "tiresome" as they relate to each other. This post I'm making if uconn4523 is also reading please let him know it's not an angry post and I'm not about to commit suicide. --

In regards to personal--joe - why is it that you are coming at me 1st when it was uconn4523 that suggested that I was "butt hurt?" . Am I the one that started it? On here, I've been called a miserable person. A hater etc. And worse. Even your posts - while you don't do personal you do soft digs on posters that don't share your optimistic view sometimes, don't you? Though you don';t do it often and are nothing near harsh. For example a post you replied to me on you quoted Phil Simms regarding DJones locking on to receivers-- You disagreed with my comment that he locks onto receivers- and felt a need to dig on me/ and others a bit, right? Here's your quote-

------------------
"That's Phil Simms. Now he s been dismissed here before as a evaluator of talent at the position, but certainly he is more capable than the critics here to identify Jones’ weaknesses."
--------------------------------

then as quoted above you went on to take a soft dig at BBI posters (me in particular)that they were the only ones who were suggesting this. But it wasn't just BBI critics/posters that think this way. I'm guessing you had to know that, right?

You could've just let your comment stand that you agree with Phil Simms but you took an extra step to throw a dig at posters who don't agree with you. I'm not complaining I do it- as many do- and you do it very very few times but you recently did it, right? All-the-while suggesting I take things too personal yet wasn't it uc0nn4523 that started it? And I'm not supposed to have some fun back and respond?

In terms of optimism and aksing me why it's tiresome-- if oyu have it but dig on others who dodn't support your POV, then ofc it's a little annoying.

I hope you will continue to post your optimism. Just expect sometimes if you are doing a little dig - you can expect one back. None of us were hurt, right?

And to further football talk-- oyu know I'm okay with DJones, right? I'm just okay with replacing him with Lawrence if the chance should arise. I don't feel Jones is special like you but I feel he can be okay - ofc need to see more.

In terms of year-over-year I meant with DG. Am I wrong to suggest that you were on board with the Barkley pick? You were on board with Solder? Overall you were on board with what DG did in 2018? What do you think of Hernandez and Carter in rounds 2 and 3? DO you think we got good value in the OBJ trade? DO you think we could've traded Collins early? DO you trading picks for Ogeltree was good? DO you think the following year going after a number 3 WR in Tate who is pretty old in a rebuild was good?



Giants stock, really didn’t mean it as a dig at you. I ll be honest, I read a lot of posts without really paying much attention to who posted them.

I just remembered last time I quoted Simms, there were posts that dismissed it.

I think I was qualifying my post about Simms before it would be dismissed again.

Really. It was not intended as a dig at you personally or anyone else.


Okay-- I'm sorry. I thought you were digging me on that post. I just want to reiterate - I am okay with Jones.

Please do not stop if you are optimistic. Next time you make posts like that I know it's not a dig. Sorry.
RE: RE: The bar for competitive has also been defined downward  
PatersonPlank : 10/17/2020 8:31 pm : link
In comment 15011013 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15010729 japanhead said:


Quote:


They lost to the Rams by two scores and didn't score a touchdown, but some said they looked competitive.

They lost by four points to the Bears, put up 13 total points, and the offense choked big time in the 4th. Some said they looked competitive.

They lost by two scores to the Steelers, with one TD coming in garbage time. Some said they looked competitive or were encouraged because they weren't blown out (even though they were).

Its to the point that saying they were competitive is meaningless, the domain of imagination and wishful thinking.

They arguably did not even look competitive against the Cowboys.



This. Our so called high rank defense is only high rank because other teams know they can just get a lead and sit on it. The defense hasn't stopped one team yet when they needed to.


This isn't true. The defense played much better earlier in games not later. They got worse later because they were on the field so much.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
BurberryManning : 10/18/2020 1:42 am : link
In comment 15011334 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15011104 BurberryManning said:


Quote:


In comment 15010872 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 15010752 christian said:


Quote:


I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.

It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.

Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.


Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...


FYI, it appears that the Giants are not the youngest team in the NFL, rather they are the 9th youngest, or were after cut-down day. Ranking NFL teams by age - ( New Window )


The Giants have the youngest starting lineup in the NFL. I should have been more specific. I don’t particularly care about 3rd stringers or 40 year old backup QBs swaying the numbers. Those guys don’t play much. The important guys are the starters. The guys on the field.
Can you please source this? Not to be argumentative but I’d like to review the data.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
joeinpa : 10/18/2020 9:11 am : link
In comment 15011424 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
In comment 15011334 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 15011104 BurberryManning said:


Quote:


In comment 15010872 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 15010752 christian said:


Quote:


I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.

It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.

Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.


Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...


FYI, it appears that the Giants are not the youngest team in the NFL, rather they are the 9th youngest, or were after cut-down day. Ranking NFL teams by age - ( New Window )


The Giants have the youngest starting lineup in the NFL. I should have been more specific. I don’t particularly care about 3rd stringers or 40 year old backup QBs swaying the numbers. Those guys don’t play much. The important guys are the starters. The guys on the field.

Can you please source this? Not to be argumentative but I’d like to review the data.


This entire post really nails it. 👍
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
BigBlueShock : 10/18/2020 9:37 am : link
In comment 15011424 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
In comment 15011334 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 15011104 BurberryManning said:


Quote:


In comment 15010872 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 15010752 christian said:


Quote:


I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.

It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.

Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.


Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...


FYI, it appears that the Giants are not the youngest team in the NFL, rather they are the 9th youngest, or were after cut-down day. Ranking NFL teams by age - ( New Window )


The Giants have the youngest starting lineup in the NFL. I should have been more specific. I don’t particularly care about 3rd stringers or 40 year old backup QBs swaying the numbers. Those guys don’t play much. The important guys are the starters. The guys on the field.

Can you please source this? Not to be argumentative but I’d like to review the data.

Well this is one, it was the first that popped up so I’ll post it...
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/18/2020 9:51 am : link
In comment 15010872 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15010752 christian said:


Quote:


I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.

It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.

Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.


Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...


To be clear, you expected them to be worse at all aspects of offensive football this year? You expected them to fall from middle of the pack to 31st in the league after firing a head coach? You expected the QB to look more lost in year 2 than year 1?

What is competitive about this team? They have had a 4th quarter lead in ONE game this season, against the broken down cowboys defense.

Its not a "tough start" against good teams. They got their asses kicked against a team of injury replacements and a QB that would get demoted to third string a week after playing the Giants. They are clueless on offense to the point of comedy.

This is not what a developing team looks like.

Can we give the brand new coaching staff at least 1/2  
PatersonPlank : 10/18/2020 10:11 am : link
a season before giving up? Everyone said we needed a change. We changed and now people are giving up after 4 or 5 games. Things take time. You can't blame this staff, and this group of roughly 1-2 year players, on the failures of the last 7 seasons. Remember our average age in the starting lineup is 24 yrs old, youngest in the league.
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