I keep reading that people are happy to see that we are competitive. That this team isn't a complete disaster because we are still in these games, and that means we are close. For some, close games late means that the arrow is pointed in the right direction, and we will soon be gathering the wins. I don't think it means anything to be in these games late.
Lets look back at the past 3 years of Giants football. The team has lost a combined 36 games in the 2017-2019 seasons. in those losses, 28 of them the Giants have either gone into the 4th with it being a 1 score game, had the lead in the 4th, or made it a 1 score game within the 4th (I excluded a few games where the giants scored in garbage time to make it a 1 score game, as this doesn't indicate a "competitive game).
That is over 3/4 of the losses in the past 3 seasons. None of these "competitive" losses have lead to future success. None of them have lead to us being better next season. My point on all of this is that for this team to show that there is growth, they need to actually show it with wins, not some arbitrary "being in games."
This is with a young quarterback and team who have potential to get better.
I m in the minority but I don’t sense the hopelessness in this team that I did in those
Errr...I mean you do think that.
I think they're wildly different when talking about the state of the franchise. Being competitive means you're a couple plays away. Not a few drives away.
The sad sorry truth is that the Cowboys aren't very good and they still won.
I know, "talent blahs blah". The Cowboys stink.
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premise. You dont think a 36-3 game and a 36-33 game are the same?
Errr...I mean you do think that.
I think they're wildly different when talking about the state of the franchise. Being competitive means you're a couple plays away. Not a few drives away.
My whole point is that we have had the 36-33 loss consistently from 2017-2019, and we are still the worst team in league. If the competitive loss means we are so close, then why have over 77% of our losses been competitive, yet we are once again one of, if not the worst team in league? If they were indicative of being close, we would be better.
Last year felt like atleast half our games were over by half time. That's not competitive football.
Last year felt like atleast half our games were over by half time. That's not competitive football.
But that's revisionist history, and the whole point of my post. 10 of our losses last year were "competitive"
BUF - 7 pt game with 12:03 to go in 4th
NE - Went into the 4th down 7pts
ARI - down 3 points with 8:19 to go in 4th
DET - Went into 4th down 5 pts
DAL - Down 5 with 11:53 to go
NYJ - Went into 4th with a 3 pt LEAD
CHI - Down 5 with 4:17 to go
GB - Went into 4th down 4pts
PHI - OT loss
PHI - Went into 4th tied
If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.
If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.
Agree with this. Could even point to the 49ers game where a ridiculous call pretty much set off a chain of events that screwed us in that game. This year this team looks so much better coached and that is half the battle.
They lost by four points to the Bears, put up 13 total points, and the offense choked big time in the 4th. Some said they looked competitive.
They lost by two scores to the Steelers, with one TD coming in garbage time. Some said they looked competitive or were encouraged because they weren't blown out (even though they were).
Its to the point that saying they were competitive is meaningless, the domain of imagination and wishful thinking.
They arguably did not even look competitive against the Cowboys.
Last year felt like atleast half our games were over by half time. That's not competitive football.
At least we had a brief bit of optimism last year after beating Tampa and wash. This year it seems like anything over 5 wins is an impossibility
If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.
There is a difference but it’s not much better.
The Def and O switched just turns being abysmal.
Pittsburgh....if DJ doesnt throw that INT deep in the Red Zone, and thats a TD instead of a turnover...who knows what happens?
Chicago...again, they were deep in the Red Zone and one play away from winning that game with a TD.
SF-Ok...got their asses kicked
Rams-AGAIN, took it right down to the wire, one play away
Dallas- See Pitt, Chi and Rams above...right there, a few things go their way, they win that game
And this is with a putrid Oline and one legitimate WR! I still feel they need good play from that #2 corner, some improved play from the OLine (ok, alot of improved play) and SOMEONE to fill the #1 WR role! And also, it will be nice to see our high 2nd rd draft pick play at some point (hopefully) I anticipated a 1-4 start so 0-5 isn't that far off. And they have been more competitive in games than I thought they would be.
I think some people here arent happy unless they are bitching and complaining and criticizing and arguing...just in love with being miserable. Losing sucks, but at least I dont find myself turning games off by the beginning of the 4th quarter. baby steps.
Shurmur was always fielding a "competitive team" until he was a horrible coach. The soft stuff is important, I'll always say I value it, but some talk as if the emotional component and how the team feels is the only thing that matters.
Newsflash, the Pats don't win because BB keeps them all feeling warm and fuzzy, they win because they are prepared and they adjust well.
It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.
Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.
Pittsburgh....if DJ doesnt throw that INT deep in the Red Zone, and thats a TD instead of a turnover...who knows what happens?
Chicago...again, they were deep in the Red Zone and one play away from winning that game with a TD.
SF-Ok...got their asses kicked
Rams-AGAIN, took it right down to the wire, one play away
Dallas- See Pitt, Chi and Rams above...right there, a few things go their way, they win that game
And this is with a putrid Oline and one legitimate WR! I still feel they need good play from that #2 corner, some improved play from the OLine (ok, alot of improved play) and SOMEONE to fill the #1 WR role! And also, it will be nice to see our high 2nd rd draft pick play at some point (hopefully) I anticipated a 1-4 start so 0-5 isn't that far off. And they have been more competitive in games than I thought they would be.
I think some people here arent happy unless they are bitching and complaining and criticizing and arguing...just in love with being miserable. Losing sucks, but at least I dont find myself turning games off by the beginning of the 4th quarter. baby steps.
I mentioned this in another comment, but look at 10 of the losses from last year. You could do the same exact thing:
BUF - 7 pt game with 12:03 to go in 4th
NE - Went into the 4th down 7pts
ARI - down 3 points with 8:19 to go in 4th
DET - Went into 4th down 5 pts
DAL - Down 5 with 11:53 to go
NYJ - Went into 4th with a 3 pt LEAD
CHI - Down 5 with 4:17 to go
GB - Went into 4th down 4pts
PHI - OT loss
PHI - Went into 4th tied
Yet here we are this year 0-5 looking at what-ifs and talking about being competitive. It just doesn't mean anything and isn't indicative that we are close being a winning team.
Pittsburgh....if DJ doesnt throw that INT deep in the Red Zone, and thats a TD instead of a turnover...who knows what happens?
Chicago...again, they were deep in the Red Zone and one play away from winning that game with a TD.
SF-Ok...got their asses kicked
Rams-AGAIN, took it right down to the wire, one play away
Dallas- See Pitt, Chi and Rams above...right there, a few things go their way, they win that game
And this is with a putrid Oline and one legitimate WR! I still feel they need good play from that #2 corner, some improved play from the OLine (ok, alot of improved play) and SOMEONE to fill the #1 WR role! And also, it will be nice to see our high 2nd rd draft pick play at some point (hopefully) I anticipated a 1-4 start so 0-5 isn't that far off. And they have been more competitive in games than I thought they would be.
I think some people here arent happy unless they are bitching and complaining and criticizing and arguing...just in love with being miserable. Losing sucks, but at least I dont find myself turning games off by the beginning of the 4th quarter. baby steps.
You just proved his point. Being competitive doesn't ultimately lead to winning, being "winners", or creating a winning culture. It leads to the worst record in the NFL over a 4-5 year span. Winners win...losers point to moral victories and excuses. This is a terrible organization and it's because of the attitude in your post. You keep DG because you think you're competitive, you keep Eli another year because you think you can compete with him, you draft Saquon to help Eli be competitive...and 3-4 years later, you're the worst team in the NFL. Shit ain't gonna change until the standards change.
I think there’s a difference between last year and this year. If you don’t that’s cool, doesn’t matter to me.
We'd be better off if we had Bosa and Young.
The entire point of this post is to show that your comment could have been made about any single one of the last 3 years. This same comment made a year or two ago under Shurmur would look pretty foolish now.
This is as subjective as it gets.
This is as subjective as it gets.
Its a discussion board. I felt others were misunderstanding the point I was trying to get across, so I was responding. I stopped responding to your comments specifically, as you made it clear it was a "agree to disagree" situation which I respected.
I really don't see what the issue is.
If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.
This is the same tired noise we hear from posters like you and joe over-and-over - year-over year.
Pittsburgh....if DJ doesnt throw that INT deep in the Red Zone, and thats a TD instead of a turnover...who knows what happens?
Chicago...again, they were deep in the Red Zone and one play away from winning that game with a TD.
SF-Ok...got their asses kicked
Rams-AGAIN, took it right down to the wire, one play away
Dallas- See Pitt, Chi and Rams above...right there, a few things go their way, they win that game
And this is with a putrid Oline and one legitimate WR! I still feel they need good play from that #2 corner, some improved play from the OLine (ok, alot of improved play) and SOMEONE to fill the #1 WR role! And also, it will be nice to see our high 2nd rd draft pick play at some point (hopefully) I anticipated a 1-4 start so 0-5 isn't that far off. And they have been more competitive in games than I thought they would be.
I think some people here arent happy unless they are bitching and complaining and criticizing and arguing...just in love with being miserable. Losing sucks, but at least I dont find myself turning games off by the beginning of the 4th quarter. baby steps.
And ditto back at you.
The fact you are playing the "What-if" game is comical. Beyond comical. I mean c'mon--
No idea how some of you function in real life.
Over the last however many years, teams would play an ultra conservative offense against us because they knew our offense couldn't move the ball. Then they'd open things up in the 2nd half when our defense was winded.
We haven't played competitive ball in a while.
That being said, I'll take a loss where we did well in some phases over a loss where we couldn't do anything right.
No idea how some of you function in real life.
I'm "hurt?"
I'm "hurt" because you and others make excuses and that is causing me to be hurt? Huh??
You have a word to describe me - well how about I have a word for you? -- "Delusional."
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are you butt hurt your football team isn’t very good?
No idea how some of you function in real life.
I'm "hurt?"
I'm "hurt" because you and others make excuses and that is causing me to be hurt? Huh??
You have a word to describe me - well how about I have a word for you? -- "Delusional."
Delusional? Because I don’t care if we stink?
Fine, I’m delusional. If the giants finish 0-16 I’ll be just fine. You might be on suicide watch, however.
Its a fucking game, get over it.
And that’s fine. But this thread was created to tell everyone how they should be thinking. Any contrasting response was met with a different version of what “competitive” means.
To me we seem better than last year. That isn’t delusion, it’s what my eyes see. If someone disagrees it’s all good, I’m not trying to change their mind.
People are trying way too hard to be right. That’s the issue with BBI.
It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.
Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.
Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...
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I see both sides. Yes, it's just a game, but we are obviously Giants fanatics, as we're positing on a sports board about said team. I don't have a problem blowing off steam. We've been trash for years now.
And that’s fine. But this thread was created to tell everyone how they should be thinking. Any contrasting response was met with a different version of what “competitive” means.
To me we seem better than last year. That isn’t delusion, it’s what my eyes see. If someone disagrees it’s all good, I’m not trying to change their mind.
People are trying way too hard to be right. That’s the issue with BBI.
Okay, I wasn't going to respond, like I said before, but now you are putting words and intentions into my mouth. I posted an opinion, with facts to back it up. I then responded, in respectful form, to others who I felt weren't getting the point of my post. If people didn't post opinions, and respond to reactions to that opinion, what would a discussion board be?
Once you said that your definition of a "competitive" wasn't the way I defined it in my factual stats, I left things be, but you just keep coming at it. All I did was post literal game log facts and try to have others understand my interpretation of those facts, but apparently that's an inappropriate use a discussion board to you
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In comment 15010832 UConn4523 said:
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are you butt hurt your football team isn’t very good?
No idea how some of you function in real life.
I'm "hurt?"
I'm "hurt" because you and others make excuses and that is causing me to be hurt? Huh??
You have a word to describe me - well how about I have a word for you? -- "Delusional."
Delusional? Because I don’t care if we stink?
Fine, I’m delusional. If the giants finish 0-16 I’ll be just fine. You might be on suicide watch, however.
Its a fucking game, get over it.
Delusional because you said I'm hurt on suicide watch etc - because I think posters such as you keep making excuses.
This makes me "hurt?" And then you mention "suicide?" Are you nuts? My point is that you sound delusional -- you suggest I am - why? Because all I did is suggest you keep making excuses?
In other words- I don't support your view so I MUST be angry or suicidal/ This is the same exact type of crap we've heard from posters like you prior to this year - those that defended DG and thought the team "was headed in the right direction." You make extreme exaggerations because maybe you want to only read cheerlead posts?
Last you year many of that knew Dg was incompetent were called - haters, miserable etc. Now I'm suicidal because I'm arguing with you?
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In comment 15010869 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I see both sides. Yes, it's just a game, but we are obviously Giants fanatics, as we're positing on a sports board about said team. I don't have a problem blowing off steam. We've been trash for years now.
And that’s fine. But this thread was created to tell everyone how they should be thinking. Any contrasting response was met with a different version of what “competitive” means.
To me we seem better than last year. That isn’t delusion, it’s what my eyes see. If someone disagrees it’s all good, I’m not trying to change their mind.
People are trying way too hard to be right. That’s the issue with BBI.
Okay, I wasn't going to respond, like I said before, but now you are putting words and intentions into my mouth. I posted an opinion, with facts to back it up. I then responded, in respectful form, to others who I felt weren't getting the point of my post. If people didn't post opinions, and respond to reactions to that opinion, what would a discussion board be?
Once you said that your definition of a "competitive" wasn't the way I defined it in my factual stats, I left things be, but you just keep coming at it. All I did was post literal game log facts and try to have others understand my interpretation of those facts, but apparently that's an inappropriate use a discussion board to you
I believe others want to argue with you because you used the word "anything." I think you meant "much," right?
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In comment 15010871 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15010869 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I see both sides. Yes, it's just a game, but we are obviously Giants fanatics, as we're positing on a sports board about said team. I don't have a problem blowing off steam. We've been trash for years now.
And that’s fine. But this thread was created to tell everyone how they should be thinking. Any contrasting response was met with a different version of what “competitive” means.
To me we seem better than last year. That isn’t delusion, it’s what my eyes see. If someone disagrees it’s all good, I’m not trying to change their mind.
People are trying way too hard to be right. That’s the issue with BBI.
Okay, I wasn't going to respond, like I said before, but now you are putting words and intentions into my mouth. I posted an opinion, with facts to back it up. I then responded, in respectful form, to others who I felt weren't getting the point of my post. If people didn't post opinions, and respond to reactions to that opinion, what would a discussion board be?
Once you said that your definition of a "competitive" wasn't the way I defined it in my factual stats, I left things be, but you just keep coming at it. All I did was post literal game log facts and try to have others understand my interpretation of those facts, but apparently that's an inappropriate use a discussion board to you
I believe others want to argue with you because you used the word "anything." I think you meant "much," right?
Yeah, I would agree with that. I could have chosen my words better in that respect.
And it's possible by the time the offense gets built up - the defense might slack off. Hope that's not the case- but if so-- but how much does it matter if this year we lose by 3 instead of 30? We have more viewing fun but if at-the-end-of-the-day if nothing leads to successful seasons and ultimately be near-the-top- what are we fans of-- "The Pittsburg Pirates?" Happy to go "82-79?"
They lost by four points to the Bears, put up 13 total points, and the offense choked big time in the 4th. Some said they looked competitive.
They lost by two scores to the Steelers, with one TD coming in garbage time. Some said they looked competitive or were encouraged because they weren't blown out (even though they were).
Its to the point that saying they were competitive is meaningless, the domain of imagination and wishful thinking.
They arguably did not even look competitive against the Cowboys.
This. Our so called high rank defense is only high rank because other teams know they can just get a lead and sit on it. The defense hasn't stopped one team yet when they needed to.
See above. The defense isn't competent.
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last year we were in all those games late because we faced soft defenses, no?
If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.
This is the same tired noise we hear from posters like you and joe over-and-over - year-over year.
I think you might be wrong in the year after year thing regarding me. I was anything but hopeful during Eli s final two seasons. It wasn t until the young quarterback was in place that I began to post about positive signs.
I still expect this team to hit a stretch where close but no cigar become victories, even some unexpected ones.
I m curious, though. why do you refer to optimism as tired noise? I watch the Giants for fun, excitement an escape from reality.
It was hard to do this without a young quarterback in place when you knew they were never winning with Eli again.
So it becomes fun again when you believe there is a chance they are headed in right direction
But I don’t want to be a poster that is a source of annoyance, I will refrain from being overly optimistic. but you should also not be taking opposing views personally
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The fact that they're competing with more talented teams is a favorable sign for the new head coach.
The entire point of this post is to show that your comment could have been made about any single one of the last 3 years. This same comment made a year or two ago under Shurmur would look pretty foolish now.
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and were uncompetitive? Okay...
We'd be better off if we had Bosa and Young.