I keep reading that people are happy to see that we are competitive. That this team isn't a complete disaster because we are still in these games, and that means we are close. For some, close games late means that the arrow is pointed in the right direction, and we will soon be gathering the wins. I don't think it means anything to be in these games late.
Lets look back at the past 3 years of Giants football. The team has lost a combined 36 games in the 2017-2019 seasons. in those losses, 28 of them the Giants have either gone into the 4th with it being a 1 score game, had the lead in the 4th, or made it a 1 score game within the 4th (I excluded a few games where the giants scored in garbage time to make it a 1 score game, as this doesn't indicate a "competitive game).
That is over 3/4 of the losses in the past 3 seasons. None of these "competitive" losses have lead to future success. None of them have lead to us being better next season. My point on all of this is that for this team to show that there is growth, they need to actually show it with wins, not some arbitrary "being in games."
Similarly I find myself not really posting too much on Giants threads anymore (definitely not as much as I used to). The wolves have been out for a while now and something as simple as thinking the defense is improved is met with what you see here (which admittedly is more tame than it usually is).
I can bitch all day about what I think is wrong with the Giants. I choose not to, it isn’t fun for me.
There are reasons for where the Giants are right now. It’s reasonable to understand the difficulty of moving off franchise legends. The Giants stuck with Eli too long, but it isn’t uncommon for teams to do this. Aside from Brady & Ben, no other QB in recent history has won multiple Super Bowls with the same team. So, I fully understand the struggle in moving off Eli. There’s always a human element to sports and business, it played out with Eli.
The rest of the year is about evaluating Jones. I like the coaching staff and I’m pleased with the competitiveness they have shown against some tough teams.
Let’s see how the season plays out. I will say that I don’t want the Giants to be married to Jones just because he was picked #6. If we are picking in the top 5, there needs to be an honest, unbiased evaluation of the QB position.
But that’s really it. The games still need to be played and I don’t feel the need to express that opinion on every single thread, especially threads discussing other players (like we so often see with several posters).
People get upset about criticism of Jones, but he had a chance to shut a lot of people up by just getting into field goal range last week. Being "competitive" in the loss to Dallas meant nothing to me since the quarterback still couldn't find the endzone. I realize Jones has led comebacks against Tampa and Wash, but a game winning drive against Dallas could've been a defining moment for him, much like it was for Eli.
12-41 record in last 3+ years carries a lot of credibility that the Giants are indeed not competitive versus most of the league.
However, they have shown to be competitive at times within certain games. And while fans have to look hard to see that, right now that is about all we have.
It's not easy to be a fan.
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but the defensive side of the ball seems like they have crossed into the competent zone. So give Graham some early props here...
See above. The defense isn't competent.
I’m not talking’85 Bears. I’m talking competent.
They get no help, either, from an offense scoring 16ppg. Which is skewed because we played Dallas last week.
:-)
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I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.
It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.
Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.
Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...
Ranking NFL teams by age - ( New Window )
It it a silly argument. Much like the one in this thread.
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In comment 15010711 UConn4523 said:
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last year we were in all those games late because we faced soft defenses, no?
If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.
This is the same tired noise we hear from posters like you and joe over-and-over - year-over year.
I think you might be wrong in the year after year thing regarding me. I was anything but hopeful during Eli s final two seasons. It wasn t until the young quarterback was in place that I began to post about positive signs.
I still expect this team to hit a stretch where close but no cigar become victories, even some unexpected ones.
I m curious, though. why do you refer to optimism as tired noise? I watch the Giants for fun, excitement an escape from reality.
It was hard to do this without a young quarterback in place when you knew they were never winning with Eli again.
So it becomes fun again when you believe there is a chance they are headed in right direction
But I don’t want to be a poster that is a source of annoyance, I will refrain from being overly optimistic. but you should also not be taking opposing views personally
First on the personal then on the "tiresome" as they relate to each other. This post I'm making if uconn4523 is also reading please let him know it's not an angry post and I'm not about to commit suicide. --
In regards to personal--joe - why is it that you are coming at me 1st when it was uconn4523 that suggested that I was "butt hurt?" . Am I the one that started it? On here, I've been called a miserable person. A hater etc. And worse. Even your posts - while you don't do personal you do soft digs on posters that don't share your optimistic view sometimes, don't you? Though you don';t do it often and are nothing near harsh. For example a post you replied to me on you quoted Phil Simms regarding DJones locking on to receivers-- You disagreed with my comment that he locks onto receivers- and felt a need to dig on me/ and others a bit, right? Here's your quote-
------------------
"That's Phil Simms. Now he s been dismissed here before as a evaluator of talent at the position, but certainly he is more capable than the critics here to identify Jones’ weaknesses."
--------------------------------
then as quoted above you went on to take a soft dig at BBI posters (me in particular)that they were the only ones who were suggesting this. But it wasn't just BBI critics/posters that think this way. I'm guessing you had to know that, right?
You could've just let your comment stand that you agree with Phil Simms but you took an extra step to throw a dig at posters who don't agree with you. I'm not complaining I do it- as many do- and you do it very very few times but you recently did it, right? All-the-while suggesting I take things too personal yet wasn't it uc0nn4523 that started it? And I'm not supposed to have some fun back and respond?
In terms of optimism and aksing me why it's tiresome-- if oyu have it but dig on others who dodn't support your POV, then ofc it's a little annoying.
I hope you will continue to post your optimism. Just expect sometimes if you are doing a little dig - you can expect one back. None of us were hurt, right?
And to further football talk-- oyu know I'm okay with DJones, right? I'm just okay with replacing him with Lawrence if the chance should arise. I don't feel Jones is special like you but I feel he can be okay - ofc need to see more.
In terms of year-over-year I meant with DG. Am I wrong to suggest that you were on board with the Barkley pick? You were on board with Solder? Overall you were on board with what DG did in 2018? What do you think of Hernandez and Carter in rounds 2 and 3? DO you think we got good value in the OBJ trade? DO you think we could've traded Collins early? DO you trading picks for Ogeltree was good? DO you think the following year going after a number 3 WR in Tate who is pretty old in a rebuild was good?
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In comment 15010830 giantstock said:
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In comment 15010711 UConn4523 said:
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last year we were in all those games late because we faced soft defenses, no?
If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.
This is the same tired noise we hear from posters like you and joe over-and-over - year-over year.
I think you might be wrong in the year after year thing regarding me. I was anything but hopeful during Eli s final two seasons. It wasn t until the young quarterback was in place that I began to post about positive signs.
I still expect this team to hit a stretch where close but no cigar become victories, even some unexpected ones.
I m curious, though. why do you refer to optimism as tired noise? I watch the Giants for fun, excitement an escape from reality.
It was hard to do this without a young quarterback in place when you knew they were never winning with Eli again.
So it becomes fun again when you believe there is a chance they are headed in right direction
But I don’t want to be a poster that is a source of annoyance, I will refrain from being overly optimistic. but you should also not be taking opposing views personally
First on the personal then on the "tiresome" as they relate to each other. This post I'm making if uconn4523 is also reading please let him know it's not an angry post and I'm not about to commit suicide. --
In regards to personal--joe - why is it that you are coming at me 1st when it was uconn4523 that suggested that I was "butt hurt?" . Am I the one that started it? On here, I've been called a miserable person. A hater etc. And worse. Even your posts - while you don't do personal you do soft digs on posters that don't share your optimistic view sometimes, don't you? Though you don';t do it often and are nothing near harsh. For example a post you replied to me on you quoted Phil Simms regarding DJones locking on to receivers-- You disagreed with my comment that he locks onto receivers- and felt a need to dig on me/ and others a bit, right? Here's your quote-
------------------
"That's Phil Simms. Now he s been dismissed here before as a evaluator of talent at the position, but certainly he is more capable than the critics here to identify Jones’ weaknesses."
--------------------------------
then as quoted above you went on to take a soft dig at BBI posters (me in particular)that they were the only ones who were suggesting this. But it wasn't just BBI critics/posters that think this way. I'm guessing you had to know that, right?
You could've just let your comment stand that you agree with Phil Simms but you took an extra step to throw a dig at posters who don't agree with you. I'm not complaining I do it- as many do- and you do it very very few times but you recently did it, right? All-the-while suggesting I take things too personal yet wasn't it uc0nn4523 that started it? And I'm not supposed to have some fun back and respond?
In terms of optimism and aksing me why it's tiresome-- if oyu have it but dig on others who dodn't support your POV, then ofc it's a little annoying.
I hope you will continue to post your optimism. Just expect sometimes if you are doing a little dig - you can expect one back. None of us were hurt, right?
And to further football talk-- oyu know I'm okay with DJones, right? I'm just okay with replacing him with Lawrence if the chance should arise. I don't feel Jones is special like you but I feel he can be okay - ofc need to see more.
In terms of year-over-year I meant with DG. Am I wrong to suggest that you were on board with the Barkley pick? You were on board with Solder? Overall you were on board with what DG did in 2018? What do you think of Hernandez and Carter in rounds 2 and 3? DO you think we got good value in the OBJ trade? DO you think we could've traded Collins early? DO you trading picks for Ogeltree was good? DO you think the following year going after a number 3 WR in Tate who is pretty old in a rebuild was good?
Giants stock, really didn’t mean it as a dig at you. I ll be honest, I read a lot of posts without really paying much attention to who posted them.
I just remembered last time I quoted Simms, there were posts that dismissed it.
I think I was qualifying my post about Simms before it would be dismissed again.
Really. It was not intended as a dig at you personally or anyone else.
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In comment 15010752 christian said:
Quote:
I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.
It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.
Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.
Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...
FYI, it appears that the Giants are not the youngest team in the NFL, rather they are the 9th youngest, or were after cut-down day. Ranking NFL teams by age - ( New Window )
The Giants have the youngest starting lineup in the NFL. I should have been more specific. I don’t particularly care about 3rd stringers or 40 year old backup QBs swaying the numbers. Those guys don’t play much. The important guys are the starters. The guys on the field.
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In comment 15011021 joeinpa said:
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In comment 15010830 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15010711 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
last year we were in all those games late because we faced soft defenses, no?
If you don’t see a difference between last year and this year then I don’t know what to tell you. I can think what I want though and to me we look like a better team. These games are much more tolerable than years past.
This is the same tired noise we hear from posters like you and joe over-and-over - year-over year.
I think you might be wrong in the year after year thing regarding me. I was anything but hopeful during Eli s final two seasons. It wasn t until the young quarterback was in place that I began to post about positive signs.
I still expect this team to hit a stretch where close but no cigar become victories, even some unexpected ones.
I m curious, though. why do you refer to optimism as tired noise? I watch the Giants for fun, excitement an escape from reality.
It was hard to do this without a young quarterback in place when you knew they were never winning with Eli again.
So it becomes fun again when you believe there is a chance they are headed in right direction
But I don’t want to be a poster that is a source of annoyance, I will refrain from being overly optimistic. but you should also not be taking opposing views personally
First on the personal then on the "tiresome" as they relate to each other. This post I'm making if uconn4523 is also reading please let him know it's not an angry post and I'm not about to commit suicide. --
In regards to personal--joe - why is it that you are coming at me 1st when it was uconn4523 that suggested that I was "butt hurt?" . Am I the one that started it? On here, I've been called a miserable person. A hater etc. And worse. Even your posts - while you don't do personal you do soft digs on posters that don't share your optimistic view sometimes, don't you? Though you don';t do it often and are nothing near harsh. For example a post you replied to me on you quoted Phil Simms regarding DJones locking on to receivers-- You disagreed with my comment that he locks onto receivers- and felt a need to dig on me/ and others a bit, right? Here's your quote-
------------------
"That's Phil Simms. Now he s been dismissed here before as a evaluator of talent at the position, but certainly he is more capable than the critics here to identify Jones’ weaknesses."
--------------------------------
then as quoted above you went on to take a soft dig at BBI posters (me in particular)that they were the only ones who were suggesting this. But it wasn't just BBI critics/posters that think this way. I'm guessing you had to know that, right?
You could've just let your comment stand that you agree with Phil Simms but you took an extra step to throw a dig at posters who don't agree with you. I'm not complaining I do it- as many do- and you do it very very few times but you recently did it, right? All-the-while suggesting I take things too personal yet wasn't it uc0nn4523 that started it? And I'm not supposed to have some fun back and respond?
In terms of optimism and aksing me why it's tiresome-- if oyu have it but dig on others who dodn't support your POV, then ofc it's a little annoying.
I hope you will continue to post your optimism. Just expect sometimes if you are doing a little dig - you can expect one back. None of us were hurt, right?
And to further football talk-- oyu know I'm okay with DJones, right? I'm just okay with replacing him with Lawrence if the chance should arise. I don't feel Jones is special like you but I feel he can be okay - ofc need to see more.
In terms of year-over-year I meant with DG. Am I wrong to suggest that you were on board with the Barkley pick? You were on board with Solder? Overall you were on board with what DG did in 2018? What do you think of Hernandez and Carter in rounds 2 and 3? DO you think we got good value in the OBJ trade? DO you think we could've traded Collins early? DO you trading picks for Ogeltree was good? DO you think the following year going after a number 3 WR in Tate who is pretty old in a rebuild was good?
Giants stock, really didn’t mean it as a dig at you. I ll be honest, I read a lot of posts without really paying much attention to who posted them.
I just remembered last time I quoted Simms, there were posts that dismissed it.
I think I was qualifying my post about Simms before it would be dismissed again.
Really. It was not intended as a dig at you personally or anyone else.
Okay-- I'm sorry. I thought you were digging me on that post. I just want to reiterate - I am okay with Jones.
Please do not stop if you are optimistic. Next time you make posts like that I know it's not a dig. Sorry.
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They lost to the Rams by two scores and didn't score a touchdown, but some said they looked competitive.
They lost by four points to the Bears, put up 13 total points, and the offense choked big time in the 4th. Some said they looked competitive.
They lost by two scores to the Steelers, with one TD coming in garbage time. Some said they looked competitive or were encouraged because they weren't blown out (even though they were).
Its to the point that saying they were competitive is meaningless, the domain of imagination and wishful thinking.
They arguably did not even look competitive against the Cowboys.
This. Our so called high rank defense is only high rank because other teams know they can just get a lead and sit on it. The defense hasn't stopped one team yet when they needed to.
This isn't true. The defense played much better earlier in games not later. They got worse later because they were on the field so much.
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In comment 15010872 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15010752 christian said:
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I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.
It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.
Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.
Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...
FYI, it appears that the Giants are not the youngest team in the NFL, rather they are the 9th youngest, or were after cut-down day. Ranking NFL teams by age - ( New Window )
The Giants have the youngest starting lineup in the NFL. I should have been more specific. I don’t particularly care about 3rd stringers or 40 year old backup QBs swaying the numbers. Those guys don’t play much. The important guys are the starters. The guys on the field.
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In comment 15011104 BurberryManning said:
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In comment 15010872 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15010752 christian said:
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I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.
It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.
Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.
Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...
FYI, it appears that the Giants are not the youngest team in the NFL, rather they are the 9th youngest, or were after cut-down day. Ranking NFL teams by age - ( New Window )
The Giants have the youngest starting lineup in the NFL. I should have been more specific. I don’t particularly care about 3rd stringers or 40 year old backup QBs swaying the numbers. Those guys don’t play much. The important guys are the starters. The guys on the field.
Can you please source this? Not to be argumentative but I’d like to review the data.
This entire post really nails it. 👍
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In comment 15011104 BurberryManning said:
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In comment 15010872 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15010752 christian said:
Quote:
I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.
It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.
Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.
Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...
FYI, it appears that the Giants are not the youngest team in the NFL, rather they are the 9th youngest, or were after cut-down day. Ranking NFL teams by age - ( New Window )
The Giants have the youngest starting lineup in the NFL. I should have been more specific. I don’t particularly care about 3rd stringers or 40 year old backup QBs swaying the numbers. Those guys don’t play much. The important guys are the starters. The guys on the field.
Can you please source this? Not to be argumentative but I’d like to review the data.
Well this is one, it was the first that popped up so I’ll post it...
Link - ( New Window )
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I just took a quick glance and I think the Giants were within one possession going into the 4th quarter in 8 of their losses, ended 2 more loses within one score, and won 4 games, last year.
It's a step forward they are keeping things close for 4 quarters. Last year it was 3 quarters.
Now of course being competitive isn't the destination, but it is part of the journey.
Exactly. Great post. 95% of this board knew the beginning of this season was going to be an epic challenge. No OTAs, no preseason, entirely new coaching staff, new systems, youngest team in the league, rough starting schedule, etc. Every single halfway sane person on this board was saying they expected a tough start to the first half of the season and was just hoping to start seeing results in the second half. But when the team does struggle, as expected by most at the beginning, they simply can’t handle it in real time. It’s why I laugh every time these clowns pound their fit for a complete tear down and start over. They can’t handle the losing when it’s happening in front of their faces. They all know it’ll take some time, and all of them said as much at the beginning of the year. Yet, here we are. Constantly bitching about being “competitive”. Although that’s all they were asking before the season started...
To be clear, you expected them to be worse at all aspects of offensive football this year? You expected them to fall from middle of the pack to 31st in the league after firing a head coach? You expected the QB to look more lost in year 2 than year 1?
What is competitive about this team? They have had a 4th quarter lead in ONE game this season, against the broken down cowboys defense.
Its not a "tough start" against good teams. They got their asses kicked against a team of injury replacements and a QB that would get demoted to third string a week after playing the Giants. They are clueless on offense to the point of comedy.
This is not what a developing team looks like.