I'll start with the caveat that overall, our fanbase has been very fortunate to see four Super Bowls in recent history. I realize many fanbases are much more long suffering.
With that caveat aside, I think the notion that "Jones will be fine, the Giants just need to get him the pieces he needs to win" is naïve in a sense. Why? Because who actually has faith in this organization to acquire the types of players that a QB like Jones needs to win?
The Giants will once again find themselves picking near the top of the draft. For all of the blame Gettleman gets (and I am not defending him even .01%), when he gets kicked to the curb, that doesn't change the fact that many of the same folks who have been here for years likely aren't going anywhere. Like, Chris Mara isn't going anywhere guys.
Who will the next GM be? Based off Giants history, it will be a promotion from within or someone with organizational ties. Which likely means more of the same. This is the boring scenario and the one we all expect to happen, so let's not waste too much time on this.
I'm of the opinion that, barring him looking completely clueless and overwhelmed, we should just hand the keys to the franchise to Judge. Is it risky? 1000%, but clearly the more recent tact of having Mara's slimy fingerprints over football decisions isn't working either.
Let Judge pick a GM who has the same vision and philosophy as he does. Best case scenario we get a Shanahan/Lynch duo with Judge and whoever he picks.
Which brings us to the 49ers. The 49ers on paper appear to be a true "best case scenario" for a rebuilding organization. It took them until their 3rd year to put it all together (yes I realize maybe if Jimmy G doesn't get hurt in 2018, maybe they are a playoff team, but keep in mind they were on their way to being 1-2 by the time he got hurt late in the Week 3).
Now, let's say we get the clean start with a Judge/his GM regime in 2021. Jones at that point is basically playing for his long term future here, and this roster is certainly more than one good draft or one good free agent class from being truly competitive and being able to help support him.
If the best case scenario is that it takes 3 years for this roster to put it all together, can Jones be sold to the fanbase off of what likely would another losing season in 2021 and "Hey, 8-8 was a huge step forward" year in 2022? How do you tell the fans that you need to make the long term investment in the quarterback when there's been nothing but bad to mediocre seasons with him behind center?
I guess my TLDR is that, hey, Jones may very well turn out to one day be a decent quarterback who can win when placed in a great situation. But will he ever have that great situation with the Giants? It seems very unlikely if the Giants go the typical "we hired from within/hired a guy with ties" road. And even if they do make the out of character choice to hand the keys over to Judge, he and his GM will need at least 2-3 years to overhaul this talentless roster. Unfortunately for Jones, it seems like he is just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
1) we can’t give a 2nd contract to a qb that isn’t winning
2) Once he gets that contract, the team will be getting worse around him, not better.
So if Jones needs superior talent in order to make noise in this league, the best thing for him would be for us to trade him to a competitor with a hole at QB.
But it's correct, we can't give a 2nd contract to a QB that hasn't proven it on the field and in the win-loss record.
Taking Jones out of the picture, it's just incredible how sucky this team is in 2020. It's mind boggling.
Although, it will likely not happen here, the new GM needs to be someone from outside the Giants organization that has either had previous success as a GM or in player personnel. I'm not nearly as concerned about having a "cap guru" in charge. That is a a skill that's more readily available. Give me a guy who knows how to build a team and judge talent.
they're 34 and 30 years respectively.
But if you pick a Mahomes/Rodgers type QB, winning will happen pretty quickly and we will be a perennial playoff team for at least 12 years.
Yes, I agree. Hard to understand the knee jerk reaction to a quarterback with 17 games under his belt, especially so when you consider Eli s first 17 games , but that s what they do.
Right. That's what sucks the most is that without Saquon, it's really hard to get a good read on DJ. And even the small sample size doesn't tell us anything because the offensive line was so inept the first few weeks that even an all world back was rushing for whatevery his paltry ypc was this year. Asking a 2nd year QB to put a talent barren offense on his back is a bit much.
At the end of the day he still needs to take care of ball, but we could seriously be fucking up his progress if this is how poor we are offensively again next year. Saquon won't be Saquon next year just a year removed from his ACL. Feel like he'll bounce back, but nobody gets 100 percent. You just lose too much from not doing anything for a long ass time.
I'm not saying to make this a BoB situation where Judge is GM and Coach, I'm saying let Judge be involved in picking the next GM so they are on the same page. As unlikely as many think that moving on from Jones after two years is, I think Mara firing the coach after one year is a near impossibility.
Rather than just say "Ok new GM, you gotta keep Judge", why not let Judge find someone who he is on the same page with? My whole point was that we need a Lynch/Shanahan tandem where two younger minds are on the same page and are given the time to execute their plan.
It is risky like I said, but I'll take that over Mara finding someone who is willing to accept Judge as their coach. Next year will be another losing season and a GM who has Judge forced on him will be anxious to protect himself by saying "Its the coach", leading to yet another cycle of GM and head coach in and out juggling.
This. The Rams are offensively light years ahead of us and we still see games where Goff looks like a neophyte. He's the kind of guy who needs tremendous support around him and Jones will never have that here. Unless something drastically changes, the Giants have shown us that they are incapable of building those types of rosters on a consistent year in and year out basis.
Read closer, not what I said at all
Yeah, unfortunately the Jets will probably have the 1st pick. The real interesting scenario will be if one of the other QBs is enticing enough to move on from Jones if the Giants are bad enough to still be a top 2 or 3 draft spot.