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Jason Pierre Paul -- A long strange trip

SB 42 and 46 and ? : 10/17/2020 12:16 am
Good to see that our last tie to our glory year is starting for a contender and after five games is leading the defense with four sacks and two forced fumbles.

In 31 games with the Bucs he has produced 25 sacks and five forced fumbles.

But more important than his play, he has grown into a man. A married and responsible father, who stayed late after training camp to work with the younger players and who aggravated other players when he called them out to play harder and never to be satisfied with losing.

His greatest accomplishment was probably last season when he rehabbed himself from an off season broken neck that was supposed to cost him the season. He returned in time to play 10 games and chalk up 8.5 sacks.

Although he will never make it into the HOF, as seemed possible after his first three seasons with the Giants, he has put the firecracker incident behind him.


Foote said he’s never seen someone come back from the injury Pierre-Paul suffered. - ( New Window )
At least we have BJ Hill and used that cap space on  
adamg : 10/17/2020 1:05 am : link
Omameh...
RE: At least we have BJ Hill and used that cap space on  
Greg from LI : 10/17/2020 3:07 am : link
In comment 15010966 adamg said:
Quote:
Omameh...


Cue Yakity Sax. Gettleman is the reverse King Midas.
Nice thread. It's good to hear that a player has learned life lessons  
Ira : 10/17/2020 4:37 am : link
that will carry him beyond football.
I'm always gonna be a JPP fan.  
Optimus-NY : 10/17/2020 4:49 am : link
So happy for him.
Blocked that FG in Dallas  
rocco8112 : 10/17/2020 5:53 am : link
in 2011, what a clutch play. Threw Romo down for a Safety and forced an RB fumble in that game too if memory serves. The Giants used to actually have some playmakers. Used to actually win sometimes.

One of the best and biggest regular season wins.

He had such physical talent and it looked like the sky was the limit. Then he blew off his hand and over the next few seasons the Giants became the worst team in football

Glad he is doing well and wish him the best. Integral player in Giants' history and a Super Bowl champ.
Another move by Gettleman  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 10/17/2020 6:11 am : link
I never really understood.🤷‍♂️
RE: Another move by Gettleman  
section125 : 10/17/2020 6:55 am : link
In comment 15010997 Tittle 9 20 64 said:
Quote:
I never really understood.🤷‍♂️


Don't you remember the noise on BBI about getting rid of JPP because he could not tackle with that hand? I remember.

How about the CAP hit and the need for CAP relief?

Is he really that different of a man?  
ron mexico : 10/17/2020 7:05 am : link
He wasn’t a monster here, actually a really good guy who occasionally did boneheaded things.

The one car accident indicates he isn’t beyond doing stupid things.

Agree with Ron Mexico  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/17/2020 7:22 am : link
He was a good Giant all around. It was not just the hand injury. There were concerns with his back.

Hakeem drafted in 2009, JPP 2010. What should have been two repeat pro bowlers and HOF potential players who played enormous roles in 2011....what a shame.
I like JPP and wished things turned out better  
JohnB : 10/17/2020 7:44 am : link
But I always thought that after the JPP pick, Reese started taking more players with great measurements and were lesser known for their production (like JPP) hoping that it would translate into a great player. He even labeled one pick "the JPP of TEs". Sadly. it doesn't work that way.

I think that once this idea got into his head, this team started downhill.
I was ok with the trade of JPP at the time  
joeinpa : 10/17/2020 7:45 am : link
As it turn out, I was wrong. He is still a great player, but more importantly for me, he was a link to Strahan who was linked to L. T. and all the other great Giants pass rushers.
That article is talking about how Tampa is mathematically eliminated  
FranknWeezer : 10/17/2020 7:58 am : link
In the playoffs and I was like, WTF? Turns out it was written in December 2019.
Depressing...  
Grey Pilgrim : 10/17/2020 8:03 am : link
...
Dave Gettleman got rid of more high end talent  
Metnut : 10/17/2020 9:01 am : link
than he’s managed to acquire. He should be shown the door yesterday
RE: Is he really that different of a man?  
Josh in the City : 10/17/2020 9:11 am : link
In comment 15011002 ron mexico said:
Quote:
He wasn’t a monster here, actually a really good guy who occasionally did boneheaded things.

The one car accident indicates he isn’t beyond doing stupid things.

Prince Amukamara would likely disagree with you.
RE: RE: Is he really that different of a man?  
regulator : 10/17/2020 9:14 am : link
In comment 15011054 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 15011002 ron mexico said:


Quote:


He wasn’t a monster here, actually a really good guy who occasionally did boneheaded things.

The one car accident indicates he isn’t beyond doing stupid things.



Prince Amukamara would likely disagree with you.


Turns out there was a little more to that story than originally reported!
RE: RE: RE: Is he really that different of a man?  
Josh in the City : 10/17/2020 9:21 am : link
In comment 15011057 regulator said:
Quote:
In comment 15011054 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


In comment 15011002 ron mexico said:


Quote:


He wasn’t a monster here, actually a really good guy who occasionally did boneheaded things.

The one car accident indicates he isn’t beyond doing stupid things.



Prince Amukamara would likely disagree with you.



Turns out there was a little more to that story than originally reported!

Oh, what was the truth!?
Terrible  
mittenedman : 10/17/2020 9:22 am : link
trade. I'm not a Gettleman basher but I hated the trade when we made it and still do. Why in the hell would you get rid of good pass rushers?
RE: Dave Gettleman got rid of more high end talent  
UConn4523 : 10/17/2020 9:25 am : link
In comment 15011047 Metnut said:
Quote:
than he’s managed to acquire. He should be shown the door yesterday


Don't agree. There comes a point where a player just isn't working out anymore. JPP was being paid well and just wasn't producing here anymore. He looked jaded and needed to go.

DG hasn't reloaded well, that doesn't mean trading JPP was a bad decision.
reese always took guys with great measurements  
Platos : 10/17/2020 9:25 am : link
he's just lucky JPP was good lol
RE: RE: Dave Gettleman got rid of more high end talent  
ron mexico : 10/17/2020 9:31 am : link
In comment 15011066 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15011047 Metnut said:


Quote:


than he’s managed to acquire. He should be shown the door yesterday



Don't agree. There comes a point where a player just isn't working out anymore. JPP was being paid well and just wasn't producing here anymore. He looked jaded and needed to go.

DG hasn't reloaded well, that doesn't mean trading JPP was a bad decision.


He had 70 tackles and 8,5 sacks in his last year here.

He was still producing.

But he was laughing in the background during Eli’s presser about the benching so he had to go.

We don't win it all in 2011 without him...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/17/2020 9:32 am : link
So I'll always be appreciative of JPP.
And you are leaving out  
UConn4523 : 10/17/2020 9:37 am : link
7.5 sacks the year prior and an injury plagued 1 sack season prior to that making around $15m per year.

He wasn’t worth the money anymore. Maybe if we had a Judge then it would have been different. But we didn’t and he clearly needed a change of scenery. You can’t look at his recent production and think that would have magically happened here when it didn’t for 3 straight years prior.

Like I said earlier it could be both a good trade and a bad job finding his replacement. It’s ok to admit that.
It seems like a lot of guys need a change of scenery from the giants  
ron mexico : 10/17/2020 9:43 am : link
Maybe we should look into our scenery.
RE: It seems like a lot of guys need a change of scenery from the giants  
UConn4523 : 10/17/2020 9:50 am : link
In comment 15011082 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Maybe we should look into our scenery.


Yeah we stink. Doesn’t mean the trade didn’t make sense.
JPP be benefits from the fact that front 7 is beyond  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/17/2020 10:02 am : link
Stacked. His disability is a lot less apparrnt because they have guys swarming to the ball. He found a good spot
There was a time when you couldn't find a former NYG  
LBH15 : 10/17/2020 10:09 am : link
on another team's starting roster.

Now they are everywhere, many contributing a fairly decent amount.

RE: JPP be benefits from the fact that front 7 is beyond  
UConn4523 : 10/17/2020 10:10 am : link
In comment 15011097 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Stacked. His disability is a lot less apparrnt because they have guys swarming to the ball. He found a good spot


It’s a good point. With Vita Vea out it will be interesting to see how JPP fares the rest of the season.

It’s also why these kind of things are not always what they seem. On the 2019 and 2020 Giant teams I can almost guarantee he isn’t/wouldn’t be at double digit sacks. And that would be at $15m which wouldn’t be worth it. One could argue that money spent on JPP means no Blake Martinez (bigger impact and cheaper) or Bradberry (much bigger impact for roughly the same price).
RE: RE: Dave Gettleman got rid of more high end talent  
HomerJones45 : 10/17/2020 10:14 am : link
In comment 15011066 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15011047 Metnut said:


Quote:


than he’s managed to acquire. He should be shown the door yesterday



Don't agree. There comes a point where a player just isn't working out anymore. JPP was being paid well and just wasn't producing here anymore. He looked jaded and needed to go.

DG hasn't reloaded well, that doesn't mean trading JPP was a bad decision.
Too bad Dave doesn't know what that point is. His novel approach to team building- turning the roster into an expansion team roster- has paid great dividends in wins and playoff position. And he generated tremendous cap savings to flush down the toilet.

I credit those posters who attempt to find the silver lining behind this hurricaine of destruction.
RE: RE: JPP be benefits from the fact that front 7 is beyond  
HomerJones45 : 10/17/2020 10:27 am : link
In comment 15011100 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15011097 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


Stacked. His disability is a lot less apparrnt because they have guys swarming to the ball. He found a good spot



It’s a good point. With Vita Vea out it will be interesting to see how JPP fares the rest of the season.

It’s also why these kind of things are not always what they seem. On the 2019 and 2020 Giant teams I can almost guarantee he isn’t/wouldn’t be at double digit sacks. And that would be at $15m which wouldn’t be worth it. One could argue that money spent on JPP means no Blake Martinez (bigger impact and cheaper) or Bradberry (much bigger impact for roughly the same price).
You present a false choice. One could also argue that JPP, who costs a few bucks more than Martinez and much less than Williams going by their latest contracts, means no Williams trade, no franchise one year deal cap hit and having our draft picks back. So, how would a defense with JPP along with Tomlinson and Lawrence, Martinez, Bradbury and our draft picks stack up against the current "can't rush the passer; can't stop the run when we need to" group? Or perhaps Dave still gets Williams since he could have afforded all without his O-line free agent follies.
It definitely sucks, but he’s got help on that Dline  
Simms11 : 10/17/2020 10:28 am : link
Here he had Vernon, who was not very helpful. Barrett helps him get those sacks IMO. He is another guy that we got rid of too quickly!

Anyway he most likely is still here if it were only a firecracker! He wouldn’t have lost a finger and half if it were a firecracker.
It’s not a false choice  
UConn4523 : 10/17/2020 10:51 am : link
it’s a choice and also a hypothetical. And JPPs contract was $15m a year, that’s a fact. And for 8 sacks it’s not a good or even average return on investment.

He wasn’t working here anymore, why is that so hard to fathom?
against bad teams  
nochance : 10/17/2020 11:11 am : link
Like Vernon JPP got most of his sacks against bad teams during garbage time. This inflated his yearly sack totals.
Again like Vernon he disappeared during crunch time
Could Gettleman really not get more than a 3rd round pick...  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/17/2020 11:16 am : link
...coming off an 8.5 sack season?
RE: RE: At least we have BJ Hill and used that cap space on  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/17/2020 11:17 am : link
In comment 15010974 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15010966 adamg said:


Quote:


Omameh...



Cue Yakity Sax. Gettleman is the reverse King Midas.


LOFL!
JPP was great but ...  
Jim from Katonah : 10/17/2020 11:34 am : link
... if you were weighing the probabilities of his career arc when they dumped him, his return to form/health and living up to a huge contract were long odds. Happy he’s doing well, but probably not fair to play gotcha with the front office on this one. They gambled and lost on JPP, gambled and won with Olivier Vernon, it’d have to be some pretty grumpy revisionist history to say that “we all knew“ that JPP would be producing like this in 2020.
‘Production’, especially from a strong run defender,  
KWALL2 : 10/17/2020 12:13 pm : link
is not measured by sack totals.

JPP did produce here before the trade.

He’s producing in TB.

And, as he always has, he’s an excellent run defender.

He’s also doing it from several positions right now. Stand up OLB and hand in the ground DE.
I always felt JPP never reached his potential  
joe48 : 10/17/2020 1:54 pm : link
He had tremendous athletic ability and that cattier him early in his career. Never developed good technique as a pass rusher which stymied his growth as a pass rusher. He became more of a run stopper during his latter years with the Giants.
RE: RE: RE: Is he really that different of a man?  
chopperhatch : 10/17/2020 2:34 pm : link
In comment 15011057 regulator said:
Quote:
In comment 15011054 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


In comment 15011002 ron mexico said:


Quote:


He wasn’t a monster here, actually a really good guy who occasionally did boneheaded things.

The one car accident indicates he isn’t beyond doing stupid things.



Prince Amukamara would likely disagree with you.



Turns out there was a little more to that story than originally reported!


I would like more clarification on this as well.
Prince in the ice tub  
ghost718 : 10/17/2020 2:53 pm : link
That was one of the more overblown incidents in Big Blue history.

Especially when you know how to handle yourself with a mop handle.
Gettleman  
BigBluesman : 10/17/2020 4:15 pm : link
couldn't evaluate the menu at the Tick Tock Diner.
RE: It’s not a false choice  
GManinDC : 10/17/2020 8:52 pm : link
In comment 15011114 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
it’s a choice and also a hypothetical. And JPPs contract was $15m a year, that’s a fact. And for 8 sacks it’s not a good or even average return on investment.

He wasn’t working here anymore, why is that so hard to fathom?


You mean like the money they threw at Solder and Tate? How is the money spent on those guys going?
Learn to read better  
UConn4523 : 10/17/2020 9:05 pm : link
.
JPP is no dominant force on the Buc defense. He's an important  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 10/17/2020 10:20 pm : link
piece. Barrett get most of his sacks when JPP is on the field. In his first season with the Bucs, there was no Barrett, no anyone else to sack the quarterback. JPP's 12.5 were twice as many as the next guy, and he threw in 17.5 tackles for a loss.

He's always been productive, but there's a lot of self-inflicted damage to that body. Don't expect him to still be playing at age 35.

Should he have been traded? A pointless argument. The mistake was hiring Gettleman. Analysing every move Gettleman made on his way to making the Giants the worst team in the NFL gets you nowhere.

RE: Learn to read better  
HomerJones45 : 10/17/2020 11:39 pm : link
In comment 15011370 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
.
he did. You seem to think uttering the conclusory premise “he didn’t work here anymore” a couple of times settles matters. It doesn’t, and obviously there are those you aren’t accepting your premise. Trading JPP was asinine if there was interest in building a team as he was one of the better players. We didn’t trade Strahan or Harry Carson because the y were the better players on those teams. It seems if you want to build a team , you keep your better players and use those as a base. That the cap and resources gained were wasted is beside the point and just makes the stupidity of the move worse.
Blah blah blah  
UConn4523 : 10/17/2020 11:50 pm : link
you keep ignoring the simple fact that two things can be true which is mind boggling. Trading JPP and his salary was absolutely the correct thing to do. Doing a poor job finding another pass rusher since then is also true which I’ve stated for the third of fourth time now.

If you haven’t gotten that through your head yet you never will.

I also appreciate you quoting JPP stats from last year. Tell me again what he did the last 3 years as a giant? He was no longer worth what we were paying him.
You're saying that it's as easy to find a new pass rusher as it is  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 10/18/2020 6:32 pm : link
to get rid of an old one. I don't think so.

JPP was productive in his last two seasons. In 28 games he had 15 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 13 passes batted away at the line of scrimmage. Batting a pass away doesn't get you the lost yardage of a sack, but it prevents the pass from being caught.

He may have been overpaid. Some players at a given time are overpaid and some underpaid. The object of the game is not to have the most underpaid players, but to win games so you're not the worst team in football.

But not saying that keeping JPP would have made any difference. We so much turnover on the team from the 2016 playoff team, one player wouldn't have made any difference.
I thought the issue was the change in defense  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/18/2020 6:37 pm : link
from 4-3 to 3-4. I guess that was a mistake as he makes a sack from a standup position just now against the Packers.
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