Ofcourse you need a good QB but sustained quality is because of a solid team with depth that can handle injuries. When you add a good to great QB to that you have what we have seen with the Steelers and Patriots.Those teams Still won when the QBs went out.
Mahomes is great but KC is also a strong team.
the counter argument is that 80% of the teams that have won the Superbowl over the last 20 years have had great quarterbacks. only 4 pedestrian QBs have won Superbowls in that period (unless you count Eli as pedestrian). The stats are about the same going all the way back to Superbowl 1.
It is a fair point but very few great qbs have won without a great team. Rogers has one Super Bowl win and he did it the year he had the second best d in the league.
Elway won his two with strong defense and a great running game and not when he was in his prime. Peytons second was on his decline. Russel Wilson won when he had an amazing defense. Big Bema first win he was pretty bad and had a very strong team for win 2.
I think Brees and Peyton won with average teams and I would say Eli won with an average team. Defense rankings - ( New Window )
Ofcourse you need a good QB but sustained quality is because of a solid team with depth that can handle injuries. When you add a good to great QB to that you have what we have seen with the Steelers and Patriots.Those teams Still won when the QBs went out.
Mahomes is great but KC is also a strong team.
the counter argument is that 80% of the teams that have won the Superbowl over the last 20 years have had great quarterbacks. only 4 pedestrian QBs have won Superbowls in that period (unless you count Eli as pedestrian). The stats are about the same going all the way back to Superbowl 1.
It is a fair point but very few great qbs have won without a great team. Rogers has one Super Bowl win and he did it the year he had the second best d in the league.
Elway won his two with strong defense and a great running game and not when he was in his prime. Peytons second was on his decline. Russel Wilson won when he had an amazing defense. Big Bema first win he was pretty bad and had a very strong team for win 2.
I think Brees and Peyton won with average teams and I would say Eli won with an average team. Defense rankings - ( New Window )
But the counter to that is that you aren't going to win every year but the great QB keeps you in the hunt because they can offset/cover for so many positions.
How much of a doubt is there right now that if the Giants had Lawrence that they wouldn't be in 1st place?
he plays in those to shelf games. Not his performance versus the Georgia Techs of the ACC.
Lawrence is excellent against GT, but he didn’t throw 5 TDs at the half versus LSU last January.
So he doesn't win one game in 2 years so he isn't worth the pick?
He was super vs Alabama. He was terrific - 259 years pass and 106 yards rushing getting beat up like Manning did vs San Fran and just showed tough as nails- vs Ohio State- but let's pick one game he loses as the defining moment rather than what it appears every analysts is saying about him?
Might as well destroy him too for the 1 interception he threw today- the 1st one he has had in about a year.
Why can’t you all start looking objectively at the prospect? I like him a whole lot but I don’t base whether he should be drafted from games like today.
My advice is you all shouldn’t either.
I can't speak for other but have.
AN I listen ot others as well.
And it's overwhelmingly positive.
The only counter I've seen that can be even near a slam is one game vs LSU. SO I'm supposed to kill him for one game vs arguably open of the best college team that has played over the past 510 years - or longer?
Ok good. Then we shouldn’t have to really concern ourselves with ultra positive games against the high school defenses in the ACC.
Start a thread when he plays somebody.
Yet it was okay to build up Jones when he played in the ACC for those that wanted him. Now we can't build up Lawrence for those of us that would love to have Lawrence?
to draft who turned out great is Russell Wilson. I'm not sure who but I think a handful of guys here wanted to take him in the 3rd if he was there. unfortunately he didn't make it there but if i could go back i would take Wilson over Rueben Randle repeatedly lol
The teams Lawrence has had around him at Clemson are being very foolish. Yes, he looks the part. But every year, he has terrific receivers, top notch running game and a offensive approach that is tough to defend. All that to go with a defense that is always tops in NCAA.
My big worry with him is how often he puts his body in danger. He takes a ton of pretty hard hits....and thats in college.
He’s a centennial talent . And the Giants would be insane if the opportunity presented itself for them to draft him and they failed to do so. Purely , simply , without hesitation .
he plays in those to shelf games. Not his performance versus the Georgia Techs of the ACC.
Lawrence is excellent against GT, but he didn’t throw 5 TDs at the half versus LSU last January.
So he doesn't win one game in 2 years so he isn't worth the pick?
He was super vs Alabama. He was terrific - 259 years pass and 106 yards rushing getting beat up like Manning did vs San Fran and just showed tough as nails- vs Ohio State- but let's pick one game he loses as the defining moment rather than what it appears every analysts is saying about him?
Might as well destroy him too for the 1 interception he threw today- the 1st one he has had in about a year.
Why can’t you all start looking objectively at the prospect? I like him a whole lot but I don’t base whether he should be drafted from games like today.
My advice is you all shouldn’t either.
I can't speak for other but have.
AN I listen ot others as well.
And it's overwhelmingly positive.
The only counter I've seen that can be even near a slam is one game vs LSU. SO I'm supposed to kill him for one game vs arguably open of the best college team that has played over the past 510 years - or longer?
Ok good. Then we shouldn’t have to really concern ourselves with ultra positive games against the high school defenses in the ACC.
Start a thread when he plays somebody.
Yet it was okay to build up Jones when he played in the ACC for those that wanted him. Now we can't build up Lawrence for those of us that would love to have Lawrence?
It wasn't if that's what you all did with Jones. Not sure what that gets you anyway in the end. If Getts did that then the Giants are where they are for good reason.
Maybe some of you will learn it’s not the QB but the OL
So in KC it's the line, not Mahomes?
So in Seattle it's the line, not Wilson?
So in GB it's the line, not Rodgers?
...
All 3 great QB's but yes all 3 have above avg OL's...
I can assure you, Seattle's line has been just as bad as the Giants for years. I watch plenty of Seattle games. the idea that Wilson hasn't won an MVP playing behind that garbage OL is crazy
Maybe some of you will learn it’s not the QB but the OL
So in KC it's the line, not Mahomes?
So in Seattle it's the line, not Wilson?
So in GB it's the line, not Rodgers?
...
All 3 great QB's but yes all 3 have above avg OL's...
I can assure you, Seattle's line has been just as bad as the Giants for years. I watch plenty of Seattle games. the idea that Wilson hasn't won an MVP playing behind that garbage OL is crazy
I can assure you that this is a false narrative...since Wilson has been in the league Seattle has had a top 10 to top 5 rushing attack to support him and that doesn't happen without solid OL's...
And he has also had top 5 defenses including #1 in points and yards allowed the year they won the SB...
Now this is not to say RW is not a great QB but to compare the shit OL's that Eli and now DJ have had to deal with to the Seahawks is pure poppycock...
Nonsense. Seattle has literally fired their OL coach
Quote:
One player can get injured—Luck as we all know.
Ofcourse you need a good QB but sustained quality is because of a solid team with depth that can handle injuries. When you add a good to great QB to that you have what we have seen with the Steelers and Patriots.Those teams Still won when the QBs went out.
Mahomes is great but KC is also a strong team.
the counter argument is that 80% of the teams that have won the Superbowl over the last 20 years have had great quarterbacks. only 4 pedestrian QBs have won Superbowls in that period (unless you count Eli as pedestrian). The stats are about the same going all the way back to Superbowl 1.
It is a fair point but very few great qbs have won without a great team. Rogers has one Super Bowl win and he did it the year he had the second best d in the league.
Elway won his two with strong defense and a great running game and not when he was in his prime. Peytons second was on his decline. Russel Wilson won when he had an amazing defense. Big Bema first win he was pretty bad and had a very strong team for win 2.
I think Brees and Peyton won with average teams and I would say Eli won with an average team.
Defense rankings - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 15011262 Giantimistic said:
Quote:
One player can get injured—Luck as we all know.
Ofcourse you need a good QB but sustained quality is because of a solid team with depth that can handle injuries. When you add a good to great QB to that you have what we have seen with the Steelers and Patriots.Those teams Still won when the QBs went out.
Mahomes is great but KC is also a strong team.
the counter argument is that 80% of the teams that have won the Superbowl over the last 20 years have had great quarterbacks. only 4 pedestrian QBs have won Superbowls in that period (unless you count Eli as pedestrian). The stats are about the same going all the way back to Superbowl 1.
It is a fair point but very few great qbs have won without a great team. Rogers has one Super Bowl win and he did it the year he had the second best d in the league.
Elway won his two with strong defense and a great running game and not when he was in his prime. Peytons second was on his decline. Russel Wilson won when he had an amazing defense. Big Bema first win he was pretty bad and had a very strong team for win 2.
I think Brees and Peyton won with average teams and I would say Eli won with an average team. Defense rankings - ( New Window )
But the counter to that is that you aren't going to win every year but the great QB keeps you in the hunt because they can offset/cover for so many positions.
How much of a doubt is there right now that if the Giants had Lawrence that they wouldn't be in 1st place?
Quote:
Maybe some of you will learn it’s not the QB but the OL
So in KC it's the line, not Mahomes?
So in Seattle it's the line, not Wilson?
So in GB it's the line, not Rodgers?
...
All 3 great QB's but yes all 3 have above avg OL's...
Quote:
In comment 15011291 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15011279 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15011240 LBH15 said:
Quote:
he plays in those to shelf games. Not his performance versus the Georgia Techs of the ACC.
Lawrence is excellent against GT, but he didn’t throw 5 TDs at the half versus LSU last January.
So he doesn't win one game in 2 years so he isn't worth the pick?
He was super vs Alabama. He was terrific - 259 years pass and 106 yards rushing getting beat up like Manning did vs San Fran and just showed tough as nails- vs Ohio State- but let's pick one game he loses as the defining moment rather than what it appears every analysts is saying about him?
Might as well destroy him too for the 1 interception he threw today- the 1st one he has had in about a year.
Why can’t you all start looking objectively at the prospect? I like him a whole lot but I don’t base whether he should be drafted from games like today.
My advice is you all shouldn’t either.
I can't speak for other but have.
AN I listen ot others as well.
And it's overwhelmingly positive.
The only counter I've seen that can be even near a slam is one game vs LSU. SO I'm supposed to kill him for one game vs arguably open of the best college team that has played over the past 510 years - or longer?
Ok good. Then we shouldn’t have to really concern ourselves with ultra positive games against the high school defenses in the ACC.
Start a thread when he plays somebody.
Yet it was okay to build up Jones when he played in the ACC for those that wanted him. Now we can't build up Lawrence for those of us that would love to have Lawrence?
Quote:
Maybe some of you will learn it’s not the QB but the OL
Not sure who the comment is directed at But, I am 100% behind Jones as our QB.
+1
yup, and we were stupid for not trading for Rosen who is on his 3rd team in 3 years?
My big worry with him is how often he puts his body in danger. He takes a ton of pretty hard hits....and thats in college.
Has any college QB ever had a better corps than Burrow had at LSU? Maybe Tua?
Having noted that, Sunshine just LOOKS LIKE A JET, doesn't he?
Whereas Daniel Jones Looks like a Giant.
And IMAGE is everything...
- Andre Agassi
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In comment 15011317 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15011291 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15011279 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15011240 LBH15 said:
Quote:
he plays in those to shelf games. Not his performance versus the Georgia Techs of the ACC.
Lawrence is excellent against GT, but he didn’t throw 5 TDs at the half versus LSU last January.
So he doesn't win one game in 2 years so he isn't worth the pick?
He was super vs Alabama. He was terrific - 259 years pass and 106 yards rushing getting beat up like Manning did vs San Fran and just showed tough as nails- vs Ohio State- but let's pick one game he loses as the defining moment rather than what it appears every analysts is saying about him?
Might as well destroy him too for the 1 interception he threw today- the 1st one he has had in about a year.
Why can’t you all start looking objectively at the prospect? I like him a whole lot but I don’t base whether he should be drafted from games like today.
My advice is you all shouldn’t either.
I can't speak for other but have.
AN I listen ot others as well.
And it's overwhelmingly positive.
The only counter I've seen that can be even near a slam is one game vs LSU. SO I'm supposed to kill him for one game vs arguably open of the best college team that has played over the past 510 years - or longer?
Ok good. Then we shouldn’t have to really concern ourselves with ultra positive games against the high school defenses in the ACC.
Start a thread when he plays somebody.
Yet it was okay to build up Jones when he played in the ACC for those that wanted him. Now we can't build up Lawrence for those of us that would love to have Lawrence?
It wasn't if that's what you all did with Jones. Not sure what that gets you anyway in the end. If Getts did that then the Giants are where they are for good reason.
Quote:
In comment 15011201 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Maybe some of you will learn it’s not the QB but the OL
So in KC it's the line, not Mahomes?
So in Seattle it's the line, not Wilson?
So in GB it's the line, not Rodgers?
...
All 3 great QB's but yes all 3 have above avg OL's...
I can assure you, Seattle's line has been just as bad as the Giants for years. I watch plenty of Seattle games. the idea that Wilson hasn't won an MVP playing behind that garbage OL is crazy
Quote:
In comment 15011208 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15011201 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Maybe some of you will learn it’s not the QB but the OL
So in KC it's the line, not Mahomes?
So in Seattle it's the line, not Wilson?
So in GB it's the line, not Rodgers?
...
All 3 great QB's but yes all 3 have above avg OL's...
I can assure you, Seattle's line has been just as bad as the Giants for years. I watch plenty of Seattle games. the idea that Wilson hasn't won an MVP playing behind that garbage OL is crazy
I can assure you that this is a false narrative...since Wilson has been in the league Seattle has had a top 10 to top 5 rushing attack to support him and that doesn't happen without solid OL's...
And he has also had top 5 defenses including #1 in points and yards allowed the year they won the SB...
Now this is not to say RW is not a great QB but to compare the shit OL's that Eli and now DJ have had to deal with to the Seahawks is pure poppycock...