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What’s best for this franchise?

Dave on the UWS : 10/18/2020 10:27 am
Your ONLY choices are:
1. Do whatever it takes to draft Lawrence or Fields
OR
2. Daniel Jones shows he can be a franchise QB
Any DG or Mara bashing and I will delete.

Back to the question, it’s not as easy an answer as one might think- either way.
#2 by far and away cause that means we likely have some wins and hope  
SGMen : 10/18/2020 10:29 am : link
If we finish with the #1 pick but know Jones is the answer, well, I have to believe we'd look to trade down for a stockpile of picks and a player we need desperately. That is how I come out.
Shouldn't #1 also include Lawrence and Field  
George from PA : 10/18/2020 10:30 am : link
Becoming franchise QB?

As neither is a given either.
Best scenario  
Clintqb17 : 10/18/2020 10:30 am : link
is Daniel Jones shows and becomes our franchise QB. If that’s the case, it’s not another wasted pick and we can move forward and build around him. Get him protection and weapons.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/18/2020 10:31 am : link
#1.
Lawrence and Fields  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 10/18/2020 10:33 am : link
are completely different questions.

Hard to imagine Lawrence not being a stud. Fields may not be any better than (or as good as) Jones.
Best scenario - Win a few games so alternative 1 goes away and  
Ivan15 : 10/18/2020 10:38 am : link
Alternative 2 starts to look better.

Also, a few wins will stop BBI from being almost unreadable.
The answer is obvious to me,  
Section331 : 10/18/2020 10:39 am : link
and it’s number 2. This team needs to win games. DJ showing he can be the guy would be the best thing for the org and allow continuity. If we have another 3-4 win season, there will be major changes, with different personnel preferences, and more rebuilding.

If they can put together a strong finish and win 6 games or so, that would be a good launching point going into next season. It has to start today. If they lose to WFT, we’re in for an historically bad season.
Ah George  
Dave on the UWS : 10/18/2020 10:39 am : link
you are right. I was implying that but was not explicit enough.
#2 - lets start winning  
PatersonPlank : 10/18/2020 10:40 am : link
.
Here’s my thinking.  
Dave on the UWS : 10/18/2020 10:43 am : link
The more I see of Jones, the more I think of Dalton or Cousins. Good QB, might make a couple of Pro Bowls, but needs a LOT to go right to win a SB.
If Lawrence or Fields reaches their “projected” ceilings, you have a guy who covers a lot of warts.
But dumping the # 6 pick AND having to use more high draft capital on these guys CAN’T be a good thing.
RE: Here’s my thinking.  
PatersonPlank : 10/18/2020 10:46 am : link
In comment 15011546 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
The more I see of Jones, the more I think of Dalton or Cousins. Good QB, might make a couple of Pro Bowls, but needs a LOT to go right to win a SB.
If Lawrence or Fields reaches their “projected” ceilings, you have a guy who covers a lot of warts.
But dumping the # 6 pick AND having to use more high draft capital on these guys CAN’T be a good thing.


I agree on Lawrence, but I am not on the Fields train. I don't see any reason why he will be anything more than serviceable.
RE: Here’s my thinking.  
Ivan15 : 10/18/2020 10:57 am : link
In comment 15011546 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
The more I see of Jones, the more I think of Dalton or Cousins. Good QB, might make a couple of Pro Bowls, but needs a LOT to go right to win a SB.
If Lawrence or Fields reaches their “projected” ceilings, you have a guy who covers a lot of warts.
But dumping the # 6 pick AND having to use more high draft capital on these guys CAN’T be a good thing.


With Dalton at QB, watch Dallas go on a roll to the Super Bowl. Prescott may turn out to be Wally Pipp.
If that happens  
Dave on the UWS : 10/18/2020 11:00 am : link
it’s because of the talent around him. Which is the point
I need to see more.  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/18/2020 11:08 am : link
Right now, I’m leaning towards #1. With that said, I think will have a definitive answer by the end of the season.

Lawrence and Fields are generational talents. I like Jones, but he has very clearly regressed.

Some people will blame his supporting cast, but if you took one of these young all-world QB like Mahomes or Watson or Jackson or even Prescott and put them on this team, it’s a playoff team. High tide raises all ships, and elite QB’s elevate the team around them. I’m not sure if Jones can do that.

I think Jones can win, but it is starting to look like he needs a strong supporting cast to do so.

The real question is will the ownership group want to do that and turn the page on a QB after only 2 years. I have serious doubts about that.
It is number 2 and it is not even close  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2020 11:12 am : link
Jones start showing he can be a franchise QB and you can start building the rest of the team around him...It gives you more options fort his years pick..

If you have to pick another qb it sets your franchise back and another wasted 1st
If we stick with DJ  
BigBill : 10/18/2020 11:13 am : link
We will always cringe when he’s about to get sacked, praying that ball doesn’t pop loose....again!!! His arm strength still worries me too. I hope we can build a wonderful O-line that can make everyone on offense look that much better and get a nasty pass rush that can do the same with everyone on Defense. Not holding my breathe 😢
Step 1  
HomerJones45 : 10/18/2020 11:14 am : link
Dave retires;

Step 2
Do a hard headed and hard hearted self scout and see what offensive philosophy best fits what is available on the roster. Forget "generational running back" and "franchise qb" label bullshit.

Do the same with the defense

Step 3

Let those philosophies drive the player acquisition and retention. If this is going to be a run first- short passing ball control team then you go get maulers and don't worry about their pass blocking ability and you get receivers that can run precise routes and catch the ball and don't worry about flyers.

Step 4

Quit looking to the practice squads of other shit teams in the League for players. If these guys were any good, their teams would be keeping them and playing them. We don't need another former Miami Dolphin defensive player because the DC knows his first name. That team hasn't had a good defense since the Killer B's and yet we keep bringing in their castoffs. Good teams have specialties and acumen at spotting certain talents.
Obviously #2  
Oscar : 10/18/2020 11:17 am : link
Because it means we already have a franchise guy. Also just means he’s a franchise guy generally whereas Lawrence and Fields are unproven (likely to be successful but still).

Of course we have to factor in the body of work. I think it’s unlikely Jones is going to become a franchise guy. I think it’s extremely likely Lawrence will be a franchise guy. That’s why I’m not going to shed any tears if the Giants lose today or over the remaining 11 games.
This franchise has been mired in mediocrity for 10 years.  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/18/2020 11:21 am : link
Maybe longer.

Eli Manning covered up a lot of the flaws on this team for many years. Now those flaws are exposing themselves with a weaker quarterback.

A major overhaul is needed.

I’m hoping Judge is the right guy and the first step. After that, we’ll have to see what changes can be made, and what changes are willing to be made.

Getting the right quarterback is the first step. If you have to think about if you have the right quarterback, you probably don’t.
If the Giants get a chance to draft Lawrence and they think  
GeofromNJ : 10/18/2020 11:48 am : link
Jones can be frachise, I would still draft TL. The Giants can then trade TL to an AFC team (not the Jets) for several 1st round picks (possibly three) and continue to play Jones. They could also trade Jones for a 2nd rounder and keep Lawrence.
Best scenario (that many will blindly argue against)  
jvm52106 : 10/18/2020 11:55 am : link
is for Jones to show he can be the guy and we can focus on adding play makers to our defense and passing game.

Two huge mistakes in recent years (tied to DG, not going further back):

1) Keeping Eli longer than we should have.
2) Drafting SB at #2 (especially since that was tied to #1).

Now, we have NO play makers on this team (offense or defense) and even a healthy SB wasn't really a difference maker in the win loss column. This team needs Jones to be the guy so we can go get a PENN ST LB or Stud WR or another STUD OT other defensive stud to start making teams have to game plan against a guy and not just the team in general.
Lawrence and Fields are transcendent QB talents  
Anakim : 10/18/2020 11:57 am : link
Particularly Lawrence, who is undoubtedly the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck. I don't know why, but Fields is getting a bad rap with some of you guys. He's every bit as talented as Lawrence is, sans the ideal physical attributes that Lawrence possesses (though Fields is 6'3 and built sturdily). If Lawrence wasn't in the picture, it would be Fields vs. Sewell battling for the #1 overall pick. Now, having said that, the Big 10 starting up again is absolutely crucial for Fields because he needs to shed that "one year wonder" tag. We saw this with Dwayne Haskins Jr. and it seems like it will be proven to be correct. Haskins had a great arm with great accuracy, but Fields has that AND the arm talent AND is a MUCH better athlete than Haskins is.

Truth be told, I would take Lawrence over Fields, but if I had the #2 overall pick, I would take Fields and not be upset one iota. Fields had a better year than Lawrence did last year (less passing yards, but more TDs, less INTs and a better QB rating)

Seems like either Lawrence or Fields is destined to be dratted by their home state Falcons.


I'm going off on a tangent, but to answer the original question, ideally it would be DJ panning out. DJ is an NFL QB, but I think he has a limited ceiling. He doesn't have the potential that Lawrence or Fields has. So I'll say this: if we're in position to draft either Lawrence or Fields, I take one and trade DJ. If it's anyone else (Mac Jones, the BYU kid, Kyle Trask, etc.), I'd keep DJ and go with another position. Never watched Trey Lance play so I'll hold off on him.
Dave Gettleman  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/18/2020 12:03 pm : link
has been an absolute failure at his job. It doesn't matter what options there are if he's still there to choose between the two.
It All Depends On How You Define A "Franchise" QB  
BlueVinnie : 10/18/2020 12:03 pm : link
If by "franchise", you mean that Jones can be a great QB capable of carrying the team to victories when it is not firing on all cylinders and make us annual contenders, the answer is easy...it's #2.

If by "franchise" you mean Jones can start for the team for many years and play fairly well i.e. A. Dalton, P. Rivers, without really achieving "greatness", the answer is also easy...it's #1.
Some people here are reading deficient  
Dave on the UWS : 10/18/2020 12:18 pm : link
like HomerJones and Lawrence Taylor. Go bash DG on another thread. Answer the question here. Everyone wise is.
RE: Lawrence and Fields are transcendent QB talents  
Carson53 : 10/18/2020 12:18 pm : link
In comment 15011602 Anakim said:
Quote:
Particularly Lawrence, who is undoubtedly the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck. I don't know why, but Fields is getting a bad rap with some of you guys. He's every bit as talented as Lawrence is, sans the ideal physical attributes that Lawrence possesses (though Fields is 6'3 and built sturdily). If Lawrence wasn't in the picture, it would be Fields vs. Sewell battling for the #1 overall pick. Now, having said that, the Big 10 starting up again is absolutely crucial for Fields because he needs to shed that "one year wonder" tag. We saw this with Dwayne Haskins Jr. and it seems like it will be proven to be correct. Haskins had a great arm with great accuracy, but Fields has that AND the arm talent AND is a MUCH better athlete than Haskins is.

Truth be told, I would take Lawrence over Fields, but if I had the #2 overall pick, I would take Fields and not be upset one iota. Fields had a better year than Lawrence did last year (less passing yards, but more TDs, less INTs and a better QB rating)

Seems like either Lawrence or Fields is destined to be dratted by their home state Falcons.


I'm going off on a tangent, but to answer the original question, ideally it would be DJ panning out. DJ is an NFL QB, but I think he has a limited ceiling. He doesn't have the potential that Lawrence or Fields has. So I'll say this: if we're in position to draft either Lawrence or Fields, I take one and trade DJ. If it's anyone else (Mac Jones, the BYU kid, Kyle Trask, etc.), I'd keep DJ and go with another position. Never watched Trey Lance play so I'll hold off on him.
.

I don't see Fields as a 'transcendent' talent.
He is a better athlete than a Haskins, but I don't see it. Time will tell I guess.
Once Dave Gettleman  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/18/2020 12:25 pm : link
rightfully retires or is fired then I'll entertain you in your mindless mental gymnastic hypotheticals.

Step 1. Fly a plane over the stadium saying Fire Dave
Step 2. Fire Dave
Step 3. Profit
What's best is without a doubt number 1  
giantstock : 10/18/2020 12:28 pm : link
But the team cannot try to lose/ deliberately tank.

Secondly, the OP is implying that Daniel will be good - which is why the question is even being asked. So if he is good you can trade him and get multiple picks. Many teams will trade for a good young QB.

SO here you have a QB you expect to be top 5 in league for about a dozen years or so - and in his 1ts year you'd have extra picks for Jones along with high picks in each round along with cap space.

A competent GM would make the Giants dangerous in not much time at all.
It would be a bad sign if ...  
Jim from Katonah : 10/18/2020 12:31 pm : link
.... Judge can’t coax out 3-4 wins. Look at Brian Flores in Miami ... that’s what we want to see.
RE: What's best is without a doubt number 1  
giantstock : 10/18/2020 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15011629 giantstock said:
Quote:
But the team cannot try to lose/ deliberately tank.

Secondly, the OP is implying that Daniel will be good - which is why the question is even being asked. So if he is good you can trade him and get multiple picks. Many teams will trade for a good young QB.

SO here you have a QB you expect to be top 5 in league for about a dozen years or so - and in his 1ts year you'd have extra picks for Jones along with high picks in each round along with cap space.

A competent GM would make the Giants dangerous in not much time at all.


I mis-read.

I didn't know the OP also included Fields. I don't know enough about Fields.

Lawrence is the guy which undoubtedly you take if you have the chance. OFC I say this within reason. If some team offers you something more obscene that HWalker - it would have to all-time beyond-all-time obscene.
RE: What's best is without a doubt number 1  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/18/2020 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15011629 giantstock said:
Quote:
But the team cannot try to lose/ deliberately tank.

Secondly, the OP is implying that Daniel will be good - which is why the question is even being asked. So if he is good you can trade him and get multiple picks. Many teams will trade for a good young QB.

SO here you have a QB you expect to be top 5 in league for about a dozen years or so - and in his 1ts year you'd have extra picks for Jones along with high picks in each round along with cap space.

A competent GM would make the Giants dangerous in not much time at all.


Bingo. Instead of the dinosaur we have talking about donuts and hot dogs and full bloom love.
I think both...  
bw in dc : 10/18/2020 1:19 pm : link
Lawrence and Fields have more upside than Jones. So I go #1.

Number 2 would be best obviously  
Jersey Heel : 10/18/2020 1:34 pm : link
It means we have our long-term solution

Number one, however, is more realistic.
No way we finish in bottom 2  
5BowlsSoon : 10/18/2020 2:04 pm : link
Then this question is moot, unless we can.

I don’t see how Jets and Falcons win more than 1 game. Because we are in the worst division, we can win 2-4 games.

But in order to get one of the top two QBs you have to be 1 or 2 in the draft.

Ain’t happening fellows....
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