If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
They would have been crucified if they didn’t pick an OT with that pick. The question is did he pick the right one?
If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
They would have been crucified if they didn’t pick an OT with that pick. The question is did he pick the right one?
Literally everybody on draft day said he was the most pro ready. Shitty offseason, he is making rookie mistakes and has played some of the best lones in the league.
If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
Exactly.
Exactly? Dumb. Sherrf was a top ten pick who is a Guard. Martin is an all pro Guard. Leonard Davis was drafted 2nd overall and had a great career. The book is still open for AT. If he becomes a good player at any position on the OL and Peart becomes a stud at LT its value for value.
Every team has disappointing 1st rounders. Yes we have had a lot but who cares who plays where.
What’s dumb is your assumption Thomas will be all-pro at anything. Right now he’s a shitty starter with shitty technique. If that’s what the Giants end up with on a top 5 draft pick it was a terrible mistake, regardless if Peart is good or not.
If Thomas becomes a good starting RT, it was a good pick. If Peart beats him to be starting LT, then it was a great draft and if Lemieux becomes even the 3rd guard on the team it was an outstanding draft.
Well, I have been calling for Peart to start for 3 weeks now
So, I am happy he started and played well. But, frankly, I have no idea how Felming retained his starting position with Thomas to the bench. Even if you want to see Peart at LT, move Thomas to RT. Fleming is by far the worst OL on a bad line. Frankly, if Peart works out at LT and Thomas plays well at LT, it isn't ideal and isn't how we thought, but that would still be OK with me. However, if Peart moves forward as the LT and Thomas does nothing, then we wasted another high draft pick. It is still way too early to tell.
"Easily overpowered, needs a year in the weight room" stuff.
What guy are you looking at? Peart looked physically rock solid and held his ground much better than AT. Looked much more comfortable getting an early punch.
If anybody looks weak and not quite ready yet, it's AT, who is back-pedaling off the snap and giving too much ground before he makes contact still. I'll rewatch, but Peart also had some good run blocks too. He played stronger.
The he needs weight room strength hot take came from but Peart honestly looks bigger and stouter than Thomas out there. Struggles at the Senior Bowl? He stopped a couple bull rushes where Thomas has been getting bullied right into Jones’ lap repeatedly in recent games. More impressively he got some nice push in the running game. Really hope the coaching staff sees on tape all the plus plays he had over Thomas. Deserves a shot after today’s game.
At no point did we see him overpowered. On top of that - he out-benched most OT’s (including Becton, Wirfs and Thomas) at the combine. I don’t know what he cleans, squats, etc; but it’s almost like people think because he’s a small conference guy that he needs to get into the weight room. Unless someone has some evidence as to why he’s undeveloped from a strength standpoint I’ll just assume you are all full of shit.
+1.
I just rewatched the game. He got pushed back once. It was on the TD throw. Otherwise he played real well.
Thomas did too. He got beat on one run play . Otherwise he was very good.
I know there has been a lot of losing and people are negative because of it. But go back and watch it again. Both Peart and Thomas were good today.
If Peart and Thomas can start, in either combination of RT/LT
I wonder what you were all looking at. He was getting pushed back in the run game. He was able to overcome it thought because his technique and feet were very good. Very good sign.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He looked better than Thomas
If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
Exactly.
Exactly? Dumb. Sherrf was a top ten pick who is a Guard. Martin is an all pro Guard. Leonard Davis was drafted 2nd overall and had a great career. The book is still open for AT. If he becomes a good player at any position on the OL and Peart becomes a stud at LT its value for value.
Every team has disappointing 1st rounders. Yes we have had a lot but who cares who plays where.
What’s dumb is your assumption Thomas will be all-pro at anything. Right now he’s a shitty starter with shitty technique. If that’s what the Giants end up with on a top 5 draft pick it was a terrible mistake, regardless if Peart is good or not.
HE'S A ROOKIE WHO HAS STARTED 6 GAMES AS A ROOKIE WITH ALMOST ZERO OFFSEASON AND AGAINST 5 VERY FORMIDABLE LINES. Many assumed he would start at LT before Solder opted out.
Look at the first reverse, that Engram pitched (off a jet sweep) to Slayton. Maybe it was a double reverse, that came back to the left side when big 74 was the LT.
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
He looked okay. A few bumps but he is the future at one
Look at the first reverse, that Engram pitched (off a jet sweep) to Slayton. Maybe it was a double reverse, that came back to the left side when big 74 was the LT.
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
So the way a 3rd round rookie looks on a failed DOUBLE reverse against a D line with 4 1st rounders and good linebackers is enough to invalidate his performance on normal plays? Maybe stick to finding deals at FoodTown.
Look at the first reverse, that Engram pitched (off a jet sweep) to Slayton. Maybe it was a double reverse, that came back to the left side when big 74 was the LT.
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
I agree he missed on the reverse. Looked more like he didn't know who to block.
Zeke. Please point out all these plays he was getting pushed back. I still have my recording. Educate me.....
He did not look overpowered at all. I may not have wanted him to start at LT, but his play certainly warranted another look. I would keep him there, but I would also put Thomas at RT moving forward. I don't care who plays where if both play well at their respective positions.
On a team who has had major difficulty fixing the OL, if this draft produces the 2 tackles you can play with, that Is a major success regardless of who is where and where they were drafted. Just get better
RE: RE: People here largely suck at watching OL play.
Look at the first reverse, that Engram pitched (off a jet sweep) to Slayton. Maybe it was a double reverse, that came back to the left side when big 74 was the LT.
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
I agree he missed on the reverse. Looked more like he didn't know who to block.
Zeke. Please point out all these plays he was getting pushed back. I still have my recording. Educate me.....
Well I don't have the recording, but I decided to key on him once it was announced he was getting he getting the start. It was noticeable. I'll rewatch and get back to you because I'm curious myself.
One play that sticks into my mind though was a run to th left
If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
So if he improves to become say...Kareem McKenzie like as a RT it was still a waste?
Who cares. If he busts, he busts. But there's lot in between busting and being an all-pro LT. People are incredibly binary in their world outlook. If he can play RT like Kareem McKenzie and anchor the right side of the line for a decade, that's a huge win.
RE: RE: RE: People here largely suck at watching OL play.
Look at the first reverse, that Engram pitched (off a jet sweep) to Slayton. Maybe it was a double reverse, that came back to the left side when big 74 was the LT.
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
I agree he missed on the reverse. Looked more like he didn't know who to block.
Zeke. Please point out all these plays he was getting pushed back. I still have my recording. Educate me.....
Well I don't have the recording, but I decided to key on him once it was announced he was getting he getting the start. It was noticeable. I'll rewatch and get back to you because I'm curious myself.
Zeke, because he wasnt getting pushed back. Both times the Giants put him in (last week or week before at RT) he has looked more than solid and at times swallowing his assignment.
Peart has looked good albeit in limited action. But he has been powerful and plenty agile.
RE: RE: People here largely suck at watching OL play.
So the way a 3rd round rookie looks on a failed DOUBLE reverse against a D line with 4 1st rounders and good linebackers is enough to invalidate his performance on normal plays? Maybe stick to finding deals at FoodTown.
Chopper you missed my point, that I was illustrating with just one play...
Where Peart failed miserably.
Too many here make snap judgements and generalizations based on a play or three, rather than studying the whole game play by play.
Thomas had at least one awesome run block from LT... I wonder how many people here thought that was still Peart? 74 vs 78, hard to keep track of who was in since they switched back and forth a bit.
Its a good sign (for Peart) that they inserted him at LT. Does anyone have the snap count data yet?
If we get two starting above average OTs out of this draft, that will be great.
Keep in mind Peart was a 4 year starter and is 23 years old. Thomas is 21, but should still be well ahead of Peart given the level of comp he faced as a 3 year starter.
RE: RE: People here largely suck at watching OL play.
Look at the first reverse, that Engram pitched (off a jet sweep) to Slayton. Maybe it was a double reverse, that came back to the left side when big 74 was the LT.
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
So the way a 3rd round rookie looks on a failed DOUBLE reverse against a D line with 4 1st rounders and good linebackers is enough to invalidate his performance on normal plays? Maybe stick to finding deals at FoodTown.
If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
It’d be better than being a complete bust, which we’ve seen from some past top 10 picks we’ve had. If Thomas turns into a very solid RG or RT for the next 10 years I’ll take it.
Either way— We’re only 6 games into a season which had no preseason and barely any training camp. We’ve seen o-linemen struggle with the transition to the NFL even without COVID. Let’s all take a breath before we call Thomas a failed pick. Not saying anyone’s saying that but point is we can discuss both ends of the extreme all day we don’t really know what’s going to happen.
RE: RE: RE: People here largely suck at watching OL play.
So the way a 3rd round rookie looks on a failed DOUBLE reverse against a D line with 4 1st rounders and good linebackers is enough to invalidate his performance on normal plays? Maybe stick to finding deals at FoodTown.
Chopper you missed my point, that I was illustrating with just one play...
Where Peart failed miserably.
Too many here make snap judgements and generalizations based on a play or three, rather than studying the whole game play by play.
Thomas had at least one awesome run block from LT... I wonder how many people here thought that was still Peart? 74 vs 78, hard to keep track of who was in since they switched back and forth a bit.
Its a good sign (for Peart) that they inserted him at LT. Does anyone have the snap count data yet?
If we get two starting above average OTs out of this draft, that will be great.
Keep in mind Peart was a 4 year starter and is 23 years old. Thomas is 21, but should still be well ahead of Peart given the level of comp he faced as a 3 year starter.
I didnt see the play enough times to be able to weigh in, but you said yourself it was basically a trick play when he probably gets minimum first team reps and are saying he failed.
There are a lot of factors on a play like that and Peart was looked at as a project. In fact, I fault the coaching staff for having him in on a play like that. But youre talking about two rookies.
Peart moved better, looked bigger, stronger and more fluid than Thomas this week, or Fleming two weeks ago.
I keep reading that for a tackle, changing sides is much harder than moving inside to guard. Changing sides means reversing your footwork and many of your techniques. If this is true, then it's not a simple move, especially in mid-season.
He may be, but so far he hasn't been all that good at LT. He may continue to his underwhelming ways at RT.
Right now we desperately need better play at both LT and RT. Peart apparently looks like he might be able to provide an improvement at one of them. AT was drafted high, and that, rather than his play, is his selling point.
I keep reading that for a tackle, changing sides is much harder than moving inside to guard. Changing sides means reversing your footwork and many of your techniques. If this is true, then it's not a simple move, especially in mid-season.
Peart has been playing both sides. Thomas was initially slated to be a RT before Solder opted out.
You never watched the Ereck Flowers and Nate Solder shit show... fuck off all of you... he’s a 21 yr old rookie... Bud Dupree, Khalil Mack, Everson Griffen, Demarcus Lawrence, Montez Sweat, Chase Young ( would’ve seen Joey Bosa)... if I told any of you that line up would be your intro to the NFL you’d all run and hide. Let the kid play!
He may be, but so far he hasn't been all that good at LT. He may continue to his underwhelming ways at RT.
Right now we desperately need better play at both LT and RT. Peart apparently looks like he might be able to provide an improvement at one of them. AT was drafted high, and that, rather than his play, is his selling point.
I agree with you. My point is both are better than Fleming. It's up to the coaches to decide who plays where. Given that Thomas was not benched for his play, I would assume he goes back in to LT on Thurs. Peart played well enough to get himself another start.
RE: RE: RE: People here largely suck at watching OL play.
So the way a 3rd round rookie looks on a failed DOUBLE reverse against a D line with 4 1st rounders and good linebackers is enough to invalidate his performance on normal plays? Maybe stick to finding deals at FoodTown.
Chopper you missed my point, that I was illustrating with just one play...
Where Peart failed miserably.
Too many here make snap judgements and generalizations based on a play or three, rather than studying the whole game play by play.
Thomas had at least one awesome run block from LT... I wonder how many people here thought that was still Peart? 74 vs 78, hard to keep track of who was in since they switched back and forth a bit.
Its a good sign (for Peart) that they inserted him at LT. Does anyone have the snap count data yet?
If we get two starting above average OTs out of this draft, that will be great.
Keep in mind Peart was a 4 year starter and is 23 years old. Thomas is 21, but should still be well ahead of Peart given the level of comp he faced as a 3 year starter.
Blue, with the exception of the Tennessee Titans first round OT, every other tackle has looked light years ahead of Thomas. It’s not even debatable.
I saw that awesome run block Thomas had, it started with a double team, and Thomas just buried him in the end. But his pass protection, I don’t know how you can defend. Not to mention, at least once every game, he completely misses his backside block, which ends up being a TFL, which is completely unacceptable.
There is so much to improve upon, and I for one am no where near convinced that he should be starting at left tackle. I watched every snap when Peart was in, and his consistency at keeping his defender at bay was way too obvious in my eyes.
You never watched the Ereck Flowers and Nate Solder shit show... fuck off all of you... he’s a 21 yr old rookie... Bud Dupree, Khalil Mack, Everson Griffen, Demarcus Lawrence, Montez Sweat, Chase Young ( would’ve seen Joey Bosa)... if I told any of you that line up would be your intro to the NFL you’d all run and hide. Let the kid play!
He's the 4th pick overall he should be playing better. It's week 6 and he's regressing, you fuck off. Let the kid play..is this the bad news bears or the NFL? Get fucked he's been abysmal.
If Thomas becomes a good starting RT, it was a good pick. If Peart beats him to be starting LT, then it was a great draft and if Lemieux becomes even the 3rd guard on the team it was an outstanding draft.
If Thomas becomes only a good RT, it was not a good pick. RT's can be found in Rd 3. No reason to blow the fourth pick in the draft for him, especially his #4 could've been converted to 5 3rd rounders and we could've rebuilt the whole line, not just 1 spot. But if Peart becomes a solid LT and Thomas becomes a good G or RT, then I agree it was a good draft (though not outstanding).
You never watched the Ereck Flowers and Nate Solder shit show... fuck off all of you... he’s a 21 yr old rookie... Bud Dupree, Khalil Mack, Everson Griffen, Demarcus Lawrence, Montez Sweat, Chase Young ( would’ve seen Joey Bosa)... if I told any of you that line up would be your intro to the NFL you’d all run and hide. Let the kid play!
Look at the schedule, it doesn’t get any easier. If he can’t hold up vs good ER’s then he’s simply a shitty LT.
just swearing at each other about Andrew Thomas. This is fun.
He hasn't been great. I think he also hasn't been as bad as people think, there's just a microscope on him because of the expectations.
I don't think the Eagles regret taking Lane Johnson one bit at 4 despite being on the right side his entire career. The On/Off splits with him on the field or not are staggering for them.
Also just about everyone has a good pass rusher but us. Yes it's a tough schedule but that's the gig. He seems to be a better run blocker, so maybe the right side always made more sense?
If Thomas becomes a good starting RT, it was a good pick. If Peart beats him to be starting LT, then it was a great draft and if Lemieux becomes even the 3rd guard on the team it was an outstanding draft.
If Thomas becomes only a good RT, it was not a good pick. RT's can be found in Rd 3. No reason to blow the fourth pick in the draft for him, especially his #4 could've been converted to 5 3rd rounders and we could've rebuilt the whole line, not just 1 spot. But if Peart becomes a solid LT and Thomas becomes a good G or RT, then I agree it was a good draft (though not outstanding).
It does not matter where he was picked, if he becomes a Reggie McKenzie it would be a bad pick? You would hope he makes it as a good LT. But if he makes it as a good RT that is fine too.
As I posted, look at Sy'56 eval...he clearly says that patience will be needed with Thomas' pass protection.
RE: RE: RE: RE: People here largely suck at watching OL play.
In comment 15013494 BlueLou'sBack said
Blue, with the exception of the Tennessee Titans first round OT, every other tackle has looked light years ahead of Thomas. It’s not even debatable.
I saw that awesome run block Thomas had, it started with a double team, and Thomas just buried him in the end. But his pass protection, I don’t know how you can defend. Not to mention, at least once every game, he completely misses his backside block, which ends up being a TFL, which is completely unacceptable.
There is so much to improve upon, and I for one am no where near convinced that he should be starting at left tackle. I watched every snap when Peart was in, and his consistency at keeping his defender at bay was way too obvious in my eyes.
I haven't yet broken down an entire game of Thomas's as a Giant, but will do soon. I don't argue your points much but will. I try to see each play exactly for what it is, and I'm pretty sure my powers of observation are above average.
Especially perhaps watching OL play, my old position.
There have been two types of pressures given up by Thomas, strictly via his opponents' outside speed rush up the arc. Always (it seemsto me),Thomas doesnt lock his hands on defenders. Compare his hand technique to what Hetnandez does (at times) very right, getting an eagle claw (MA terminology) type grip on the opponents jersey or even shoulder pads. Thomas more slaps and punches, rather than punch and latch on.
Anyway, Thomas sometimes doesn't kick step quickly enough and gets beat to the edge, in which case the rep is lost on Thomas' account. Other times he does kick step fast enough, facilely guides his opponent up field on the arc past the imaginary pocket, and Jones back steps into a pressure by Thomas' guy when DJ had the option to step up into a clean interior pocket.
That's on DJ8, not on Thomas, and its for sure happened more than once, and I'm pretty sure many on BBI just assume that's Thomas' fault, when he did his job rather perfectly!
On a grander, mega view note, until this past week when the Browns' Jedrick Wills faced the Steelers' dynamic ERs Watt and Dupree, Wills has a much higher season long PFF rating than Thomas, something like a 77 score vs Thomas' 57...
For the season through week 5.
Week six, Wills got matched up vs the Steelers' edge guys Thomas faced game 1. Wills got destroyed on the one highlight play I saw on NFLN!
Check out their relative season long PFF grades NOW, after Wills' run in with the Steelers - who played the Browns very similarly to the way they played the Giants, very downhill aggressive box loading to crush the Browns' running game.
Now after that one game, Wills' season long PFF grade is about a mere half point better than Thomas. 57.7 for Wills vs 57.1 for Thomas.
Wills was the second OT selected in the draft, the next one after Thomas.
So the narrative that "all 3 of the other top 4 OTs are outplaying Thomas" got completely blown up after 1 more game...
Let's compare OT rookie grades after the season is done, rather thay week by week. It's a fool's errand to judge too quickly.
Thomas needs to be much more consistent, that's for sure, but he's run a gauntlet so far.
This WFT team too has good DL and ER all over the place. It will be interesting to see Thomas, and Peart as it happens in the "round two" games versus their NFCE opponents.
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If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
Its a wash if you ask me.
By #99 overall; I'd say Gettleman & Co. laid an egg; so much for the "efficacy" (a popular word these days) of the description - "Most NFL Ready".
I do hope that Thomas turns out a good pick, but who was the best playmaker available at #4 ? I wanted Henry Ruggs, time will tell.
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In comment 15012856 chopperhatch said:
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If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
They would have been crucified if they didn’t pick an OT with that pick. The question is did he pick the right one?
Literally everybody on draft day said he was the most pro ready. Shitty offseason, he is making rookie mistakes and has played some of the best lones in the league.
As are you. He played 6 games in a weird offseason when most thought hed be on the right side.
Chase Young was silent today. What else.
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In comment 15012869 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 15012856 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
Exactly.
Exactly? Dumb. Sherrf was a top ten pick who is a Guard. Martin is an all pro Guard. Leonard Davis was drafted 2nd overall and had a great career. The book is still open for AT. If he becomes a good player at any position on the OL and Peart becomes a stud at LT its value for value.
Every team has disappointing 1st rounders. Yes we have had a lot but who cares who plays where.
What’s dumb is your assumption Thomas will be all-pro at anything. Right now he’s a shitty starter with shitty technique. If that’s what the Giants end up with on a top 5 draft pick it was a terrible mistake, regardless if Peart is good or not.
Next up, when is Lemieux going to start at LG?
What guy are you looking at? Peart looked physically rock solid and held his ground much better than AT. Looked much more comfortable getting an early punch.
If anybody looks weak and not quite ready yet, it's AT, who is back-pedaling off the snap and giving too much ground before he makes contact still. I'll rewatch, but Peart also had some good run blocks too. He played stronger.
By a lot.
+1.
I just rewatched the game. He got pushed back once. It was on the TD throw. Otherwise he played real well.
Thomas did too. He got beat on one run play . Otherwise he was very good.
I know there has been a lot of losing and people are negative because of it. But go back and watch it again. Both Peart and Thomas were good today.
I don't think it matters if Thomas plays RT.
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In comment 15012897 WillVAB said:
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In comment 15012869 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 15012856 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
Exactly.
Exactly? Dumb. Sherrf was a top ten pick who is a Guard. Martin is an all pro Guard. Leonard Davis was drafted 2nd overall and had a great career. The book is still open for AT. If he becomes a good player at any position on the OL and Peart becomes a stud at LT its value for value.
Every team has disappointing 1st rounders. Yes we have had a lot but who cares who plays where.
What’s dumb is your assumption Thomas will be all-pro at anything. Right now he’s a shitty starter with shitty technique. If that’s what the Giants end up with on a top 5 draft pick it was a terrible mistake, regardless if Peart is good or not.
HE'S A ROOKIE WHO HAS STARTED 6 GAMES AS A ROOKIE WITH ALMOST ZERO OFFSEASON AND AGAINST 5 VERY FORMIDABLE LINES. Many assumed he would start at LT before Solder opted out.
Jesus Christ. And who said all pro?
Feet, Technique and brains are indicators of good OL, especially OT and he seems to jave it all. Power will come
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
So the way a 3rd round rookie looks on a failed DOUBLE reverse against a D line with 4 1st rounders and good linebackers is enough to invalidate his performance on normal plays? Maybe stick to finding deals at FoodTown.
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
I agree he missed on the reverse. Looked more like he didn't know who to block.
Zeke. Please point out all these plays he was getting pushed back. I still have my recording. Educate me.....
Quote:
Look at the first reverse, that Engram pitched (off a jet sweep) to Slayton. Maybe it was a double reverse, that came back to the left side when big 74 was the LT.
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
I agree he missed on the reverse. Looked more like he didn't know who to block.
Zeke. Please point out all these plays he was getting pushed back. I still have my recording. Educate me.....
Well I don't have the recording, but I decided to key on him once it was announced he was getting he getting the start. It was noticeable. I'll rewatch and get back to you because I'm curious myself.
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In comment 15012856 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
So if he improves to become say...Kareem McKenzie like as a RT it was still a waste?
Who cares. If he busts, he busts. But there's lot in between busting and being an all-pro LT. People are incredibly binary in their world outlook. If he can play RT like Kareem McKenzie and anchor the right side of the line for a decade, that's a huge win.
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In comment 15013248 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
Look at the first reverse, that Engram pitched (off a jet sweep) to Slayton. Maybe it was a double reverse, that came back to the left side when big 74 was the LT.
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
I agree he missed on the reverse. Looked more like he didn't know who to block.
Zeke. Please point out all these plays he was getting pushed back. I still have my recording. Educate me.....
Well I don't have the recording, but I decided to key on him once it was announced he was getting he getting the start. It was noticeable. I'll rewatch and get back to you because I'm curious myself.
Zeke, because he wasnt getting pushed back. Both times the Giants put him in (last week or week before at RT) he has looked more than solid and at times swallowing his assignment.
Peart has looked good albeit in limited action. But he has been powerful and plenty agile.
So the way a 3rd round rookie looks on a failed DOUBLE reverse against a D line with 4 1st rounders and good linebackers is enough to invalidate his performance on normal plays? Maybe stick to finding deals at FoodTown.
Chopper you missed my point, that I was illustrating with just one play...
Where Peart failed miserably.
Too many here make snap judgements and generalizations based on a play or three, rather than studying the whole game play by play.
Thomas had at least one awesome run block from LT... I wonder how many people here thought that was still Peart? 74 vs 78, hard to keep track of who was in since they switched back and forth a bit.
Its a good sign (for Peart) that they inserted him at LT. Does anyone have the snap count data yet?
If we get two starting above average OTs out of this draft, that will be great.
Keep in mind Peart was a 4 year starter and is 23 years old. Thomas is 21, but should still be well ahead of Peart given the level of comp he faced as a 3 year starter.
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Look at the first reverse, that Engram pitched (off a jet sweep) to Slayton. Maybe it was a double reverse, that came back to the left side when big 74 was the LT.
Peart whiffed twice on 2 different guys and looked like a fffn' turnstile.
Its just one play, but announcing that Peart is suddenly "better than Thomas" is way premature.
So the way a 3rd round rookie looks on a failed DOUBLE reverse against a D line with 4 1st rounders and good linebackers is enough to invalidate his performance on normal plays? Maybe stick to finding deals at FoodTown.
Peart looks much more solid.
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If a 3rd round pick becomes a starting LT of the future and our 1st becomes a starting RT or a Guard, does it really make a difference?
Yes, if they pissed away the #4 overall pick, that's not good considering the dozen or so gaping holes on the roster that pick could have been used to fill.
It’d be better than being a complete bust, which we’ve seen from some past top 10 picks we’ve had. If Thomas turns into a very solid RG or RT for the next 10 years I’ll take it.
Either way— We’re only 6 games into a season which had no preseason and barely any training camp. We’ve seen o-linemen struggle with the transition to the NFL even without COVID. Let’s all take a breath before we call Thomas a failed pick. Not saying anyone’s saying that but point is we can discuss both ends of the extreme all day we don’t really know what’s going to happen.
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So the way a 3rd round rookie looks on a failed DOUBLE reverse against a D line with 4 1st rounders and good linebackers is enough to invalidate his performance on normal plays? Maybe stick to finding deals at FoodTown.
Chopper you missed my point, that I was illustrating with just one play...
Where Peart failed miserably.
Too many here make snap judgements and generalizations based on a play or three, rather than studying the whole game play by play.
Thomas had at least one awesome run block from LT... I wonder how many people here thought that was still Peart? 74 vs 78, hard to keep track of who was in since they switched back and forth a bit.
Its a good sign (for Peart) that they inserted him at LT. Does anyone have the snap count data yet?
If we get two starting above average OTs out of this draft, that will be great.
Keep in mind Peart was a 4 year starter and is 23 years old. Thomas is 21, but should still be well ahead of Peart given the level of comp he faced as a 3 year starter.
I didnt see the play enough times to be able to weigh in, but you said yourself it was basically a trick play when he probably gets minimum first team reps and are saying he failed.
There are a lot of factors on a play like that and Peart was looked at as a project. In fact, I fault the coaching staff for having him in on a play like that. But youre talking about two rookies.
Peart moved better, looked bigger, stronger and more fluid than Thomas this week, or Fleming two weeks ago.
He may be, but so far he hasn't been all that good at LT. He may continue to his underwhelming ways at RT.
Right now we desperately need better play at both LT and RT. Peart apparently looks like he might be able to provide an improvement at one of them. AT was drafted high, and that, rather than his play, is his selling point.
Peart has been playing both sides. Thomas was initially slated to be a RT before Solder opted out.
He may be, but so far he hasn't been all that good at LT. He may continue to his underwhelming ways at RT.
Right now we desperately need better play at both LT and RT. Peart apparently looks like he might be able to provide an improvement at one of them. AT was drafted high, and that, rather than his play, is his selling point.
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So the way a 3rd round rookie looks on a failed DOUBLE reverse against a D line with 4 1st rounders and good linebackers is enough to invalidate his performance on normal plays? Maybe stick to finding deals at FoodTown.
Chopper you missed my point, that I was illustrating with just one play...
Where Peart failed miserably.
Too many here make snap judgements and generalizations based on a play or three, rather than studying the whole game play by play.
Thomas had at least one awesome run block from LT... I wonder how many people here thought that was still Peart? 74 vs 78, hard to keep track of who was in since they switched back and forth a bit.
Its a good sign (for Peart) that they inserted him at LT. Does anyone have the snap count data yet?
If we get two starting above average OTs out of this draft, that will be great.
Keep in mind Peart was a 4 year starter and is 23 years old. Thomas is 21, but should still be well ahead of Peart given the level of comp he faced as a 3 year starter.
Blue, with the exception of the Tennessee Titans first round OT, every other tackle has looked light years ahead of Thomas. It’s not even debatable.
I saw that awesome run block Thomas had, it started with a double team, and Thomas just buried him in the end. But his pass protection, I don’t know how you can defend. Not to mention, at least once every game, he completely misses his backside block, which ends up being a TFL, which is completely unacceptable.
There is so much to improve upon, and I for one am no where near convinced that he should be starting at left tackle. I watched every snap when Peart was in, and his consistency at keeping his defender at bay was way too obvious in my eyes.
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And recover abil.....OH WAIT NONE OF KNOW HOW TO EVALUATE OL
None of us**
Thomas was benched due to being late to Saturday team meeting. He is far from a finished product as he is still just 21 years old.
I said it before...i give rats ass who starts where as long as OL gets fixed.
I agree, these 2 should start...as Flemming is far more a finished product and they know what they have....a backup swing tackle.
Also
This obession with DG is nuts. No one yet knows which tackle will be best one among tge drafted players....
Plenty of reasons to complain about DG....but getting players with high potential(Thomas and Peart) is not one of them.
If Thomas becomes only a good RT, it was not a good pick. RT's can be found in Rd 3. No reason to blow the fourth pick in the draft for him, especially his #4 could've been converted to 5 3rd rounders and we could've rebuilt the whole line, not just 1 spot. But if Peart becomes a solid LT and Thomas becomes a good G or RT, then I agree it was a good draft (though not outstanding).
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In a good way.
Chase Young was his assignment, and Young did not make an impression. I'd say that is pretty good!
Look at the schedule, it doesn’t get any easier. If he can’t hold up vs good ER’s then he’s simply a shitty LT.
He hasn't been great. I think he also hasn't been as bad as people think, there's just a microscope on him because of the expectations.
I don't think the Eagles regret taking Lane Johnson one bit at 4 despite being on the right side his entire career. The On/Off splits with him on the field or not are staggering for them.
Also just about everyone has a good pass rusher but us. Yes it's a tough schedule but that's the gig. He seems to be a better run blocker, so maybe the right side always made more sense?
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If Thomas becomes a good starting RT, it was a good pick. If Peart beats him to be starting LT, then it was a great draft and if Lemieux becomes even the 3rd guard on the team it was an outstanding draft.
If Thomas becomes only a good RT, it was not a good pick. RT's can be found in Rd 3. No reason to blow the fourth pick in the draft for him, especially his #4 could've been converted to 5 3rd rounders and we could've rebuilt the whole line, not just 1 spot. But if Peart becomes a solid LT and Thomas becomes a good G or RT, then I agree it was a good draft (though not outstanding).
It does not matter where he was picked, if he becomes a Reggie McKenzie it would be a bad pick? You would hope he makes it as a good LT. But if he makes it as a good RT that is fine too.
As I posted, look at Sy'56 eval...he clearly says that patience will be needed with Thomas' pass protection.
Blue, with the exception of the Tennessee Titans first round OT, every other tackle has looked light years ahead of Thomas. It’s not even debatable.
I saw that awesome run block Thomas had, it started with a double team, and Thomas just buried him in the end. But his pass protection, I don’t know how you can defend. Not to mention, at least once every game, he completely misses his backside block, which ends up being a TFL, which is completely unacceptable.
There is so much to improve upon, and I for one am no where near convinced that he should be starting at left tackle. I watched every snap when Peart was in, and his consistency at keeping his defender at bay was way too obvious in my eyes.
I haven't yet broken down an entire game of Thomas's as a Giant, but will do soon. I don't argue your points much but will. I try to see each play exactly for what it is, and I'm pretty sure my powers of observation are above average.
Especially perhaps watching OL play, my old position.
There have been two types of pressures given up by Thomas, strictly via his opponents' outside speed rush up the arc. Always (it seemsto me),Thomas doesnt lock his hands on defenders. Compare his hand technique to what Hetnandez does (at times) very right, getting an eagle claw (MA terminology) type grip on the opponents jersey or even shoulder pads. Thomas more slaps and punches, rather than punch and latch on.
Anyway, Thomas sometimes doesn't kick step quickly enough and gets beat to the edge, in which case the rep is lost on Thomas' account. Other times he does kick step fast enough, facilely guides his opponent up field on the arc past the imaginary pocket, and Jones back steps into a pressure by Thomas' guy when DJ had the option to step up into a clean interior pocket.
That's on DJ8, not on Thomas, and its for sure happened more than once, and I'm pretty sure many on BBI just assume that's Thomas' fault, when he did his job rather perfectly!
On a grander, mega view note, until this past week when the Browns' Jedrick Wills faced the Steelers' dynamic ERs Watt and Dupree, Wills has a much higher season long PFF rating than Thomas, something like a 77 score vs Thomas' 57...
For the season through week 5.
Week six, Wills got matched up vs the Steelers' edge guys Thomas faced game 1. Wills got destroyed on the one highlight play I saw on NFLN!
Check out their relative season long PFF grades NOW, after Wills' run in with the Steelers - who played the Browns very similarly to the way they played the Giants, very downhill aggressive box loading to crush the Browns' running game.
Now after that one game, Wills' season long PFF grade is about a mere half point better than Thomas. 57.7 for Wills vs 57.1 for Thomas.
Wills was the second OT selected in the draft, the next one after Thomas.
So the narrative that "all 3 of the other top 4 OTs are outplaying Thomas" got completely blown up after 1 more game...
Let's compare OT rookie grades after the season is done, rather thay week by week. It's a fool's errand to judge too quickly.
Thomas needs to be much more consistent, that's for sure, but he's run a gauntlet so far.
This WFT team too has good DL and ER all over the place. It will be interesting to see Thomas, and Peart as it happens in the "round two" games versus their NFCE opponents.
Thomas is much quicker footed and lighter on his feet. If that's not clear to folks, fuck I don't know what is!