Jason garrett —when is it too soon to jettison

for Pete's sake, look at the fucking roster.

Is it too soon to fire him? Too soon to change the approach? Serious question.

To me it looks like they are gradually adding to the playbook as he and the O improve.

fan said the same thing and I fear you are correct. It’s been 10 years since he called plays and I think he is the real reason for DJs regression. It’s sad to think he could be looking at 3 OCs and systems in 3 years.

every play. It ain’t helping with this roster.

I am so frustrated by Garret’s play calling
There are virtually no chunk plays, no passes into the end zone , and the play calls are so predictable

On first down with two TE sets the Giants Run 90% of the time
If Garrett’s offense is based upon play action it would be good to try a pass on first down

The offense needs to take more advantage of Jone’s athleticism
They have RPO plays but most of the time Jone’s hands off

I don’t believe that the Giant’s offense is made to go 14 plays they need some long passes

Garrett plays as if he does not want to lose
He is not playing to win

In comment 15013223 Eric from BBI said:

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for Pete's sake, look at the fucking roster.

Our skill talent is worst in the league right now. Pair that with an awful offensive line, but yeah Garrett is the issue.

Today was really apparent about DJ too. He's pretty much doing everything he can out there, but unless he's perfect this offense isn't goin to score too many points.

In comment 15013223 Eric from BBI said:

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for Pete's sake, look at the fucking roster.

Come on Eric. Just because they have the worst offensive roster in the league doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be able to scapegoat anyone we want. You must be new to BBI.

In comment 15013223 Eric from BBI said:

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for Pete's sake, look at the fucking roster.

The structure of the offense is completely wrong for what Jones does well. One of the biggest pluses for him coming out was work ethic and preparation. One of his biggest weaknesses was him being slow at working through his progression during the play. So far Garret's offense has given Jones very little presnap control which negates his ability to use preparation. Instead he focuses primarily on set plays with few to no audibles which places all the pressure on Jones to make through his reads to find the open man. This was a very poor coaching decision on my part and if Garret doesn't adjust away from it Jones is going to continue to fail. So it isn't unreasonable to suggest that he be replaced if this is all he is going to bring to the table receiving corp be damned.

works all the time.

Garrett is not a good fit for DJ. I think he is causing more harm than good for him. I personally wanted Matt Canada who is now an offensive coach for the Steelers.

I wanted a head coach is will be a good CEO, and two innovative coordinators. I like Patrick Graham, I think he just lacks the talent he truly but he has done well with what he has.

Garrett however is not using the tools has. We can say the players sucks but there are better ideas out on how to use what you have too it's strengths.

It's like jecyl and hyde. I think Judge was forced to hire some coaches with head coaching experience but Garrett is a fail. Defense looks innovative and takes chances. Offense plays way too safe. DJ is way more mobile than we use him. Where is the no huddle and set up some bootlegs and tell DJ if the read is not there, take off. If you did the eventually the defense would have to respect DJ legs and then he would have more time to read the field.

Does DJ need to improve, Yes big time. But I think the regression we are seeing is more on Garrett for being too safe on early downs that he puts more pressure on DJ to convert 3rd downs.

I understand Garret is trying to get DJ in more manageable 3rd downs but I think he should be aiming at having less 3rd downs. Be more aggressive on First down, speed up the game, and see how DJ does.

We are already losing games or barely winning them. We need to play to DJ strengths, if he doesn't cut it then you know we need to grab another one.

But even though DJ makes mistakes, he also makes some great throws. He also makes plays with his legs. I am trying to keep a level head when watching DJ, and some on here are only looking at every bad play under a microscope. There are a lot of good plays he has out there too. I'm not a DJ fan boy but I would prefer to push DJ this year and have an answer.

What "tools" does Garrett have? I'd love to hear this.

How do you know any of that? That just sounds like you are talking out of your ass.

Some people want to bash everything

In comment 15013261 Eric from BBI said:

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How do you know any of that? That just sounds like you are talking out of your ass.

Well maybe we are very good at hiding it? When is the last time Jones has checked out of a play? run to pass or pass to run? How many presnap adjustments is he making with the receivers? If its happening I am not seeing it. I see it a lot in other games. I remember seeing it with Eli.

Their best offensive player is Devonta Freeman, who they just picked up off the scrap heap.

I thought he called a pretty good game today

In comment 15013236 Archer said:

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I am so frustrated by Garret’s play calling There are virtually no chunk plays, no passes into the end zone , and the play calls are so predictable On first down with two TE sets the Giants Run 90% of the time If Garrett’s offense is based upon play action it would be good to try a pass on first down The offense needs to take more advantage of Jone’s athleticism They have RPO plays but most of the time Jone’s hands off I don’t believe that the Giant’s offense is made to go 14 plays they need some long passes Garrett plays as if he does not want to lose He is not playing to win

Who gets open dipshit? Answer: NOBODY. Other than Slayton who is now doubled on virtually every play.

Do you realize that the Giants had TWO dressed WRs available for much of the game?

Wtf is he supposed to do?

God posters like you suck.

In comment 15013252 LBH15 said:

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works all the time.

Is anyone on the giants looking to get engaged to a cheerleader?

In comment 15013223 Eric from BBI said:

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for Pete's sake, look at the fucking roster.

The roster sucked last season too. The only way Jones gets to 24 passing TDs this year is with a mid season trade back to Duke. The running game is embarrassing right now. The change in coaching hasn’t elevated the offensive line at all. And now Evan Engram is a non-factor.

OLine has yet to prove they can run block and you want them to be more adventurous?

the last two weeks. Last week, we finally put some points up and this week we sustained drives. Not a single 3 and out. We were on the doorstep of putting the game away when Jones laid the ball out there for a DB instead of throwing it away. If he was trying to throw it away, it was a feeble attempt. Either way, it was a bad decision/execution by Jones. If he tucks it away or throws it out of bounds, the Giants at least get a FG and go up 10. That would have basically wrapped things up.

Board and Slayton were out of the game, I'd challenge 90% of the fanbase to call out who the #2 and #3 WR's were at that point.

In comment 15013223 Eric from BBI said:

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for Pete's sake, look at the fucking roster.

Look at the roster last year, how can you write that knowing how much more we got last year from similarly talentless roster?

I do not understand the Garrett hate.

We're clearly trying to get creative on offense to overcome our talent liabilities. Even putting DJ at risk on designed runs. Andrew Thomas caught a touchdown last week. We're seeing jet sweeps, double reverses. This is the stuff you do when you don't have the talent to succeed running a more conventional offensive gameplan.

In comment 15013326 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Board and Slayton were out of the game, I'd challenge 90% of the fanbase to call out who the #2 and #3 WR's were at that point.

Ok, I agree with that to a certain extent. But, let me ask you this? Name a person on the Eagles offensive line besides Jason Kelce who played today? Name a WR that they had, too. From my understanding of the game (albeit reported and not seen) is that they were miserable in the first half and the coaches saw stuff and schemed it in the second half. How often have we seen that from the Eagles in our own games. The last two years they were dead in the first half only to catch up I the second half. Coaches and coaching matter and despite the admitted dearth of talent, we don't really seem to improve offensively in games (except for the Bears game but we had nowhere in that one to go but up).

I'm with those who think Garrett is calling things right, at this stage. It's becoming clear what DJ is, and I think that's a game manager. It'll work against lesser teams. But it won't against the better teams out there. We'll fall behind quickly, and DJ makes more mistakes trying to air it out. That's just how it is. But if you control the game, and the clock, with early runs, and conservative play calling, you can shorten the game... and win. When DJ tries to play hero-ball, that's when mistakes happen. So I think Garrett is right to rein him in, and make him a game manager, at this stage. I fear that's all he'll ever be, unfortunately.

In comment 15013347 Spider43 said:

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I'm with those who think Garrett is calling things right, at this stage. It's becoming clear what DJ is, and I think that's a game manager. It'll work against lesser teams. But it won't against the better teams out there. We'll fall behind quickly, and DJ makes more mistakes trying to air it out. That's just how it is. But if you control the game, and the clock, with early runs, and conservative play calling, you can shorten the game... and win. When DJ tries to play hero-ball, that's when mistakes happen. So I think Garrett is right to rein him in, and make him a game manager, at this stage. I fear that's all he'll ever be, unfortunately.

Daniel Jones isn't a game manager. If he had weapons around him, he would be airing out, just like he did last year.

In comment 15013335 BestFeature said:

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In comment 15013223 Eric from BBI said: Quote: for Pete's sake, look at the fucking roster. Look at the roster last year, how can you write that knowing how much more we got last year from similarly talentless roster?

I simply can't believe how stupid some of these comments are. Saquon Barkley?

In comment 15013347 Spider43 said:

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I'm with those who think Garrett is calling things right, at this stage. It's becoming clear what DJ is, and I think that's a game manager. It'll work against lesser teams. But it won't against the better teams out there. We'll fall behind quickly, and DJ makes more mistakes trying to air it out. That's just how it is. But if you control the game, and the clock, with early runs, and conservative play calling, you can shorten the game... and win. When DJ tries to play hero-ball, that's when mistakes happen. So I think Garrett is right to rein him in, and make him a game manager, at this stage. I fear that's all he'll ever be, unfortunately.

I’m sorry but that’s making excuses for Garrett. Jones mistakes last season were fumbles. He still would throw TDs even in his worst performances and bunches of them in his good games. Now there are no good games. Maybe he still needs more time in the offense, but Garrett isn’t helping him in any way, shape, or form.

In comment 15013292 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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In comment 15013223 Eric from BBI said: Quote: for Pete's sake, look at the fucking roster. The roster sucked last season too. The only way Jones gets to 24 passing TDs this year is with a mid season trade back to Duke. The running game is embarrassing right now. The change in coaching hasn’t elevated the offensive line at all. And now Evan Engram is a non-factor.

Saquon Barkley.

Man, the IQ level of the average Giants fan has hit an all-time low.

In comment 15013257 Eric from BBI said:

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What "tools" does Garrett have? I'd love to hear this.

Good Coordinators design for the players they have. For instance is it possible that Evan Engram runs a seam and you bomb the ball down the field? You could playaction to the left side and you roll out DJ to the right and Slayton runs a slant to the same side of the field, if the play is there you throw, if not DJ tucks and runs it. You could run more no huddle give the defense less time to change players. I'm talking about scheme and timing regardless of talent. Your job is to scheme your players open. If you think no one could call a game better than Jason Garret with these players I disagree. The 2020 Giants are not the first crappy team I have watched play NFL football but I have seen other bad NFL teams produce better results with their bad players. DJ is our leading rusher, start using it to your advantage.

at times like this:

Jones with Barkley:
9 Games
21 TD's
8 INT's
265 yds.gm
3 games of passer rating above 120

Without Barkley:
8 Games
5 TD's
9 INT's
217 yds/gm
0 games of 120+ passer raying

Blah, blah, blah... you're spewing stuff out of your ass at this point. They are using Jones on the run. It's why he had 74 yards today and is this team's leading rusher.

We have a rebuilding OL, the worst group of wideouts in the league (down to 2 receivers at one point in this game until Slayton came back), the worst group of RBs in the league, and arguably the worst group of TEs.

But hey, the coaching is the problem! If we only had a good coach, we'd be scoring 30 points a game!

Right.

To not following the Cowboys but wasn’t Garrett the one who made Romo look like Montana for two or three years?

I honestly don’t know., so I’m asking for some input. Isn’t his “thing” that he’s a quarterback guru?

And we never take any shots. Everything is designed to get the yards you need for a first down and nothing more. No big plays or even any real tries to get them

In comment 15013368 Bleedblue10 said:

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And we never take any shots. Everything is designed to get the yards you need for a first down and nothing more. No big plays or even any real tries to get them

The Giants threw a 27-yard touchdown pass on 3rd-and-9.

is the right strategy

Are you kidding me? We have one wr - a Rb off the trash heap and an oline
That is poor at protecting and run blocking

But it is the coordinator? I can’t .... chunk plays with whom? With what time? Our offensive roster is horrendous

Are you kidding me? We have one wr - a Rb off the trash heap and an oline
That is poor at protecting and run blocking

But it is the coordinator? I can’t .... chunk plays with whom? With what time? Our offensive roster is horrendous

And 3 new pieces on an OL that is starting to come together....

Great thread...can I please subscribe to your newsletter?

In comment 15013359 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15013292 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: In comment 15013223 Eric from BBI said: Quote: for Pete's sake, look at the fucking roster. The roster sucked last season too. The only way Jones gets to 24 passing TDs this year is with a mid season trade back to Duke. The running game is embarrassing right now. The change in coaching hasn’t elevated the offensive line at all. And now Evan Engram is a non-factor. Saquon Barkley. Man, the IQ level of the average Giants fan has hit an all-time low.

Saquon Barkley ran for SIX yards on 15 carries in the opener. Exactly where has Jason Garrett improved the offense? Name literally one thing. I’m not making it up that the QB is worse than last season. We all see it. Christian McCaffrey gets hurt and Carolina still can run the ball. And none of this has anything to do with Evan Engram’s disappearance. It’s early, but who could post be enthusiastic or even optimistic about the job Garrett has done?

opinion in this case because I don't think Garrett has been the issue and he's been conservative more-so due to having a young, inexperienced team that lacks talent with their top skill players out with injury. And Jones regression is on Jones making poor decisions as well as the lack of talent helping him out.

here:

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Saquon Barkley ran for SIX yards on 15 carries in the opener. Exactly where has Jason Garrett improved the offense? Name literally one thing. I’m not making it up that the QB is worse than last season. We all see it. Christian McCaffrey gets hurt and Carolina still can run the ball. And none of this has anything to do with Evan Engram’s disappearance. It’s early, but who could post be enthusiastic or even optimistic about the job Garrett has done?

With Pitt selling out to stop the run, Jones was able to connect with Slayton on the longest play of the season. With Barkley out, teams have sat back in a 2 Deep Zone and I have seen a ton of posts complaining ab out not getting deep plays. The very thing the Cover 2 is in place to stop.

I'm not sure what magical formula people are looking for with the offense. Look at Jones splits with Saquon and without him

On second and short, we run up the middle against Washington's strength instead of rolling DJ out to look for an option for chunk play, of it's not there why can't DJ run 2 yards to the outside for a first down.

Eric I'm talking about NOT waiting for 3rd down to take your chances.

This team is not good and there is enough blame to go around. I'm not disagreeing the roster sucks. I'm saying at Garrett is not helping DJ. I do not think his gamr plans uses DJs strengths. I don't know you sit on DJ fence. I personally feel DJ has converted 3rd downs and saving Garret's shitty play calling.
I'm saying Garret's second down calls should look more like his third down calls and give DJ two shots instead of one because Garret calls a weak as running play on second down because he wants 3rd and 7 instead of possibly being second and 10. Which I understand why he is doing, I just don't agree with the strategy of playing that safe.
If DJ can convert 3rd and 7 as much as he has, I think with a little more risk DJ could create more rewarding plays on second down.

In comment 15013392 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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In comment 15013359 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 15013292 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: In comment 15013223 Eric from BBI said: Quote: for Pete's sake, look at the fucking roster. The roster sucked last season too. The only way Jones gets to 24 passing TDs this year is with a mid season trade back to Duke. The running game is embarrassing right now. The change in coaching hasn’t elevated the offensive line at all. And now Evan Engram is a non-factor. Saquon Barkley. Man, the IQ level of the average Giants fan has hit an all-time low. Saquon Barkley ran for SIX yards on 15 carries in the opener. Exactly where has Jason Garrett improved the offense? Name literally one thing. I’m not making it up that the QB is worse than last season. We all see it. Christian McCaffrey gets hurt and Carolina still can run the ball. And none of this has anything to do with Evan Engram’s disappearance. It’s early, but who could post be enthusiastic or even optimistic about the job Garrett has done?

Its obvious you didnt watch the run blocking the first 2 games. Its okay, just stop posting shit without putting forth a frame of reference.

3/5 new starters on the OL, one of which is a rookie and another has never plaued his position before....no offseason...but dont let that stop you from rushing to judgement.

In comment 15013425 SteelGiant said:

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On second and short, we run up the middle against Washington's strength instead of rolling DJ out to look for an option for chunk play, of it's not there why can't DJ run 2 yards to the outside for a first down. Eric I'm talking about NOT waiting for 3rd down to take your chances. This team is not good and there is enough blame to go around. I'm not disagreeing the roster sucks. I'm saying at Garrett is not helping DJ. I do not think his gamr plans uses DJs strengths. I don't know you sit on DJ fence. I personally feel DJ has converted 3rd downs and saving Garret's shitty play calling. I'm saying Garret's second down calls should look more like his third down calls and give DJ two shots instead of one because Garret calls a weak as running play on second down because he wants 3rd and 7 instead of possibly being second and 10. Which I understand why he is doing, I just don't agree with the strategy of playing that safe. If DJ can convert 3rd and 7 as much as he has, I think with a little more risk DJ could create more rewarding plays on second down.

Conversely, there were short yardage plays where he tried to drive short yardage and got stuffed by a line that has 4 1st rounders on it. He called plays that got Jones outside including a 49 yard run by the QB. Fact is, the other team sees no outside threats on this team. We had a hobbled Slayton and Engram who cant get open except underneath.

Just infuriating to read posts like yours.

In comment 15013419 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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here: Quote: Saquon Barkley ran for SIX yards on 15 carries in the opener. Exactly where has Jason Garrett improved the offense? Name literally one thing. I’m not making it up that the QB is worse than last season. We all see it. Christian McCaffrey gets hurt and Carolina still can run the ball. And none of this has anything to do with Evan Engram’s disappearance. It’s early, but who could post be enthusiastic or even optimistic about the job Garrett has done? With Pitt selling out to stop the run, Jones was able to connect with Slayton on the longest play of the season. With Barkley out, teams have sat back in a 2 Deep Zone and I have seen a ton of posts complaining ab out not getting deep plays. The very thing the Cover 2 is in place to stop. I'm not sure what magical formula people are looking for with the offense. Look at Jones splits with Saquon and without him

In defense of Jones, I’ve often made the point about how it would be nice to run the ball down someone’s throat and win the game that way. If the safeties are playing back now, then where’s the running game outside of Jones? Freeman wasn’t that good today. They didn’t run the ball all that well last week against an embarrassingly bad run D. I’m not asking for The Greatest Show on Turf. Just tell me one area where the offense hasn’t gone backwards?

In comment 15013257 Eric from BBI said:

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What "tools" does Garrett have? I'd love to hear this.

Eric, your one-liner responses are priceless.

a pretty good job running the ball in the opening drive of the 3rd. 15 plays, which unfortunately ended with the INT. Couple that with a 19 play drive against Pitt, and we've had times where we are moving.

We can't really compare last year to this year though. How many times were people bitching about yards in "garbage time", but now, we are trying to compare production is close games to that?

We haven't had Barkley, Shepard, Tate and Engram on the field together for more than a quarter. Ever. And Barkley is out, Shepard is out and we have Tate and Slayton as the only WR's with any competency.

What is a OC supposed to do to overcome this? Again - I've seen a number of complaints about not throwing the ball deep. And those that point that out is a sure sign of not understanding defensive schemes.

You do understand that when Saquon Barkley is on the field, it AFFECTS EVERYTHING. The things the Giants can and can't do, the way the defense defends everyone else.

He is THE only player on the offensive side of the football that scare anyone... and he frightens the shit out of them.

When you take him away, it's like taking Michael Jordan off the Bulls.

Barkley is now Michael Jordan? That explains a lot.

In comment 15013456 Eric from BBI said:

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You do understand that when Saquon Barkley is on the field, it AFFECTS EVERYTHING. The things the Giants can and can't do, the way the defense defends everyone else. He is THE only player on the offensive side of the football that scare anyone... and he frightens the shit out of them. When you take him away, it's like taking Michael Jordan off the Bulls.

Bullshit. Go look at the Eagles injuries — they’re still gonna put up points Thursday.

You work with what you’ve got. I don’t have a Garrett opinion either way, but he should be gearing the offense to take advantage of Jones’s legs. Quick reads and take off if it isn’t there. This will minimize the negative plays and protect the OL.

You guys are right, you have never seen a shitty dolphins team ever beat a great patriots team.

I think DJ is at the very least as good as young Ryan Fitzpatrick. The kid has pretty accurate arm and makes some big mistakes.

Garrett's offensive style is obviously the only way to call a game. Garrett was around when they picked these players who can't get open to be on the roster when they cut down to 53. There are backups getting open on short routes for other teams but our starters are just that terrible and Garret didn't notice this during camp?

with McCaffrey injured? They’re still averaged 120 rushing yards per game since he’s been hurt. Once again, I’m not asking for greatness. But is it too much to be able to point to literally one thing and say, “That’s better”? I’m keeping the bar rather low.

In comment 15013483 WillVAB said:

Quote:

In comment 15013456 Eric from BBI said: Quote: You do understand that when Saquon Barkley is on the field, it AFFECTS EVERYTHING. The things the Giants can and can't do, the way the defense defends everyone else. He is THE only player on the offensive side of the football that scare anyone... and he frightens the shit out of them. When you take him away, it's like taking Michael Jordan off the Bulls. Bullshit. Go look at the Eagles injuries — they’re still gonna put up points Thursday. You work with what you’ve got. I don’t have a Garrett opinion either way, but he should be gearing the offense to take advantage of Jones’s legs. Quick reads and take off if it isn’t there. This will minimize the negative plays and protect the OL.

The Eagles have a bad record but they have really showed what you could do with minimal talent and good coaching. We have more talent at WR then they do. Slayton, Engram, and Tate are better or equal than this year’s version of Ertz, Fulgham, Greg Ward. The Eagles came within a two point conversion of beating the Ravens today.

In comment 15013495 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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with McCaffrey injured? They’re still averaged 120 rushing yards per game since he’s been hurt. Once again, I’m not asking for greatness. But is it too much to be able to point to literally one thing and say, “That’s better”? I’m keeping the bar rather low.

Me too, I don't think we are saying anything that crazy. Im not saying I expect this team to turn in a juggernaut. I just think Garret is not helping the cause. We are not the first crappy team on the NFL but I have seen coordinators do better with rosters just as bad.

In comment 15013499 Essex said:

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In comment 15013483 WillVAB said: Quote: In comment 15013456 Eric from BBI said: Quote: You do understand that when Saquon Barkley is on the field, it AFFECTS EVERYTHING. The things the Giants can and can't do, the way the defense defends everyone else. He is THE only player on the offensive side of the football that scare anyone... and he frightens the shit out of them. When you take him away, it's like taking Michael Jordan off the Bulls. Bullshit. Go look at the Eagles injuries — they’re still gonna put up points Thursday. You work with what you’ve got. I don’t have a Garrett opinion either way, but he should be gearing the offense to take advantage of Jones’s legs. Quick reads and take off if it isn’t there. This will minimize the negative plays and protect the OL. The Eagles have a bad record but they have really showed what you could do with minimal talent and good coaching. We have more talent at WR then they do. Slayton, Engram, and Tate are better or equal than this year’s version of Ertz, Fulgham, Greg Ward. The Eagles came within a two point conversion of beating the Ravens today.

And Ertz/Sanders went out and likely won’t play Thursday.

Jones was like 10/11 before the INT in the RZ and he was calling the most conservative game I've seen in the NFL this year. In the 5-10 play calls in the RZ he took 0 shots at the end zone. Of course the 1 shot Jones was looking to throw away he had Kaden Smith pulling across the formation to block Chase Young (which he didn't do).

Just completely non-aggressive play calling.

The first play of the game he rolled Jones out and they had an easy 20 yard chunk play to Engram. Didn't even try going back to him at all after that.

To those saying there are "no weapons" you are right, but you are also completely misunderstanding the NFL. Who were the weapons on Washington marching up and down the field? Dontrelle Inman? Antonio Gibson?

They need to let Jones (and Engram) play the way they did last year. Judge's first big test is figuring out how to get the Garrett/Jones relationship to work. At this point I'm thinking we chose wrong between Callahan for OL coach or Garrett for OC.

or in the near future is another new offensive system hoist onto Daniel Jones' shoulders...

Given the overall level of OL play alone I'd suggest leaving Garrett in place another year at least.

Of course I wanted Jay Gruden as OC, since his system is a lot more similar to Pat Shurmur's. Hell I'd have kept Shurmur as OC if he would have agreed to a demotion as opposed to getting canned outright.

Not into blaming Garrett when the OL and QB play have been so inconsistent. Ans Saquon's out, as is Shepard...

I just wish he would use that Princeton brain of his and realize he needs to change his current game plan.

In comment 15013472 arniefez said:

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Barkley is now Michael Jordan? That explains a lot.

Athletically... yeah, they’d be pretty similar. There isn’t another player in the NFL with a similar size/speed/jump combo, coupled with elite agility and elite strength, he’s just incomparable. So I support the Jordan reference, athletically, obviously not in terms of championships won.

amount of denial from Giants fans about how bad the talent is on this team is absolutely stunning.

Golden Tate has done shit this year. Slayton couldn't get off the jam for three weeks in a row. Evan Engram AGAIN just disappears for long stretches (under multiple coaches). Austin Mack? Our leading RB wasn't even on a team a few weeks ago.

But look at the Eagles! Look at the Dolphins!

Idiots. We're worse.

In comment 15013504 WillVAB said:

Quote:

In comment 15013499 Essex said: Quote: In comment 15013483 WillVAB said: Quote: In comment 15013456 Eric from BBI said: Quote: You do understand that when Saquon Barkley is on the field, it AFFECTS EVERYTHING. The things the Giants can and can't do, the way the defense defends everyone else. He is THE only player on the offensive side of the football that scare anyone... and he frightens the shit out of them. When you take him away, it's like taking Michael Jordan off the Bulls. Bullshit. Go look at the Eagles injuries — they’re still gonna put up points Thursday. You work with what you’ve got. I don’t have a Garrett opinion either way, but he should be gearing the offense to take advantage of Jones’s legs. Quick reads and take off if it isn’t there. This will minimize the negative plays and protect the OL. The Eagles have a bad record but they have really showed what you could do with minimal talent and good coaching. We have more talent at WR then they do. Slayton, Engram, and Tate are better or equal than this year’s version of Ertz, Fulgham, Greg Ward. The Eagles came within a two point conversion of beating the Ravens today. And Ertz/Sanders went out and likely won’t play Thursday.

Don’t worry, Boston Scott will take care of us, like last year.

This what I think as well.

I like Joe Judge, I like what he says and his belief system. He talked about being multiple, versatile, exposing the other teams weakness with our teams strengths.

I think Patrick Graham was Judge's decision. I see the gameplans change on defense, I see the personal moving all over the field, I see certain players going in, on certain situations.

I think Giants brass was a little nervous about hiring this young Head Coach with no head coaching experience. I think they heavily recommend the Garrett hire, someone they are very familiar with, had head coaching experience in the division, had a couple young QBs developed underneath his watch.

But what I dont see what Judge said showing up on the side of the ball and I dont think it has anything to do with personnel. I dont see the game plan changing based on the defense they are going against.

If we were morphing our gameplan we would have come out firing, even if it was unsuccessful against this aggressive front who gave up more chunk plays then any other defense in the NFL. We would be seeing plays that worked once in the first quarter, over and over again until we were sick of it because it was a good matchup.

I dont see this, I see the same offense doing the same gameplan every week no matter who the opponent is. I dont think Garrett is really Judge's guy and it shows on the field. This is third game in a row were we are trying to sustain long drives and trying to get 3rd down manageable by not taking chances on second down. We are more David Simms than we are Roy McAvoy when in the Redzone. It has not mattered who we were playing against. Same plan every week.

Garrett has been doing well IMO. I think the game plans on the surface seem decent. I think people are just going to pick shit apart until this team gels a little

In comment 15013546 Eric from BBI said:

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amount of denial from Giants fans about how bad the talent is on this team is absolutely stunning. Golden Tate has done shit this year. Slayton couldn't get off the jam for three weeks in a row. Evan Engram AGAIN just disappears for long stretches (under multiple coaches). Austin Mack? Our leading RB wasn't even on a team a few weeks ago. But look at the Eagles! Look at the Dolphins! Idiots. We're worse.

Is Evan Engram almost half as talented this year (29 ypg / 8 ypc) relative to his prior career averages (50 ypg / 11 ypc)?

Darius Slayton is on pace for almost 1,200 yards at a very healthy 15.9 ypc and has 11 tds in his first 20 games - is he not a weapon?

Did Daniel Jones not have a far better year last year with basically this exact same supporting cast and multiple guys banged up all year (including Barkley/Shepard)?

Was today not their 3rd game in a row rushing for 100 yards?

I have no illusions that anyone would describe this offense as "explosive" but it's flat out wrong to act like there aren't teams out there getting more out of less. The Eagles best healthy offensive player heading into Thursday's game is a guy they claimed 2 weeks before the season began after getting cut by the 2nd or 3rd team he was on.

In comment 15013456 Eric from BBI said:

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You do understand that when Saquon Barkley is on the field, it AFFECTS EVERYTHING. The things the Giants can and can't do, the way the defense defends everyone else. He is THE only player on the offensive side of the football that scare anyone... and he frightens the shit out of them. When you take him away, it's like taking Michael Jordan off the Bulls.

LOL

In comment 15013707 Josh in the City said:

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In comment 15013456 Eric from BBI said: Quote: You do understand that when Saquon Barkley is on the field, it AFFECTS EVERYTHING. The things the Giants can and can't do, the way the defense defends everyone else. He is THE only player on the offensive side of the football that scare anyone... and he frightens the shit out of them. When you take him away, it's like taking Michael Jordan off the Bulls. LOL

Holy hyperbole Eric !

With all due respect, you guys are failing an intelligence test at this point.

The fact you can't see what the loss of Saquon Barkley meant to this entire offense is mind-numbing.

does create some ripple effect. But his absence isn’t the reason why so many players on this offense fail to consistently win their one on one matchups.

In comment 15013887 bw in dc said:

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does create some ripple effect. But his absence isn’t the reason why so many players on this offense fail to consistently win their one on one matchups.

It's like you guys are living in denial.

They are not winning one-on-one match-ups because they are not good.

Austin Mack - an undrafted rookie free agent who was active for the first time on Sunday - was our #2 receiver.

Our leading receiver was Kaden Smith who had 3 catches for 15 yards.

We have the worst group of running backs in the league.

Dave Brown had more talent to work with.

not sure what your point is to me.

I’m merely separating the Barkley factor from the lack of talent overall factor.

In comment 15013503 SteelGiant said:

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In comment 15013495 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: with McCaffrey injured? They’re still averaged 120 rushing yards per game since he’s been hurt. Once again, I’m not asking for greatness. But is it too much to be able to point to literally one thing and say, “That’s better”? I’m keeping the bar rather low. Me too, I don't think we are saying anything that crazy. Im not saying I expect this team to turn in a juggernaut. I just think Garret is not helping the cause. We are not the first crappy team on the NFL but I have seen coordinators do better with rosters just as bad.

DJ Moore is a stud true number 1 WR. Love Slayton, but right now he’s a high end number 2.

Surprisingly it looks like Robbie Anderson is morphing into the #1 role in Carolina.

Rushing 4 all game because we can’t run the ball and our tight end is a one trick pony and our only receiving threat isn’t a zone buster.

As a result DJ needs to be absolutely perfect from the pocket. Rolling him out consistently into zones and taking away from half the field is dumb regardless of what some posters here want to say.

You have a lot of idiots here that really don’t understand how football work but proclaim like they do, and then they give each other handjobs.

You don’t think Garrett doesn’t love rolling out his QB for a quick easy 30? Of course he does, but you need to set it up. Unfortunately we rarely can run the ball consistently enough. Shit the Redskins were half a step from stopping DJ in backfield on his big run. Teams are adjusting. While a good athlete expecting him to make guts miss on NFL level is asinine.

Garrett would do is stop the trick plays that lose yardage in the red zone. That double reverse on the 1st drive to Slayton lost two yards..now 2nd and 12. Oddly, I think that had Engram kept the ball he had at least 5 yards and maybe more if it outruns the LB....
Freeman was running hard on that drive, I wish he had kept it simple there,

In comment 15013929 bw in dc said:

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Surprisingly it looks like Robbie Anderson is morphing into the #1 role in Carolina.

Robbie Anderson is a very good number two guy as well. Comparing us and Carolina is asinine just because we are both missing our stud RBs.

but I thought he called a very good game yesterday. They knew it would be close and low-scoring, and he stuck with the ground game when it was working. If Jones doesn't throw that horrible pick in the red zone, the offense looks a lot better.

The one minor quibble I had was that every time Garrett had motion into a tight formation, they ran the ball. I was expecting him to call a play action out of that formation at some point, but it never came. Maybe this week?

Eric and others. No disagreement that our talent and depth are maybe less than other teams sans maybe the Jets. That wasn't the point of my post.

Rather the point was that if you agree Judge is a good head coach, and we have shown improvement on D with multiple injuries, key free agent additions, inexperienced rookies, etc. (Graham is getting the juice with the squeeze), then why is Garret showing less production with DJ than Shurmer? I think it is a fair argument.

It may just be anecodotal on my part, or I'm being influenced by my friend the Cowgirl fan, however someone posted a video last week that analyzed DJ's last drive and it showed he made all the correct decisions but that the curl routes and following give ups by the receivers left DJ with little options to convert. Just one film study, but nonetheless the guy made a point.

So I think there is more than one issue here, and I am not disagreeing that Barkley was a huge loss, but man this is football, and its next man up.

To quote judge tell me what you have, don't tell me what you don't have.

I found the article below which describes Shurmer vs Garrett's system. Quick read. I am not an O coordinator so need to trust the pundits....
Link - ( New Window )

But let's go back and look at the play Jones threw the int. We went max protection. Had 2 guys running routes. 8 vs 5 blocking. Yet the blocking scheme asked Smith to go from the right side of the formation to the left and block chase young. We don't have our LT block him. We have our second string TE try and move all the way across the formation to block him when we are in max protect. It's just stupid.