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Golden Tate's Ugly Start

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/19/2020 8:22 am
Zack Rosenblatt @ZackBlatt

Golden Tate’s 2020 cap hit: $10.35 million.

Golden Tate’s 2020 stats: 19 catches for 156 yards and 0 TDs in five games.

He’s on pace for 457 yards.

#Giants disaster.
How much dead money  
JoeyBigBlue : 10/19/2020 8:25 am : link
Are we taking once he is released in the offseason?
.  
pjcas18 : 10/19/2020 8:27 am : link
$4.75 dead space if he's released after the season.
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 10/19/2020 8:27 am : link
In comment 15013850 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
$4.75 dead space if he's released after the season.


sorry, that million in case it was not obvious
We signed him to big money because we traded OBJ  
SGMen : 10/19/2020 8:28 am : link
We took a cap hit with OBJ and likely should NOT have allowed ownership to push to sign him due to his marketing prowess for the team. But how can a GM not follow orders? I blame Mara for OBJ, Tate and Eli. LOL

Tate will be released after the season along with Solder and I believe Zeitler too UNLESS he picks up his game.
Mack played more snapa then him  
nygiants16 : 10/19/2020 8:28 am : link
I thought they could release him because of his suspension?
1 year removed from PED suspension at 32 years old  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/19/2020 8:28 am : link
He’s done.
RE: RE: .  
Jon in NYC : 10/19/2020 8:29 am : link
In comment 15013851 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15013850 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


$4.75 dead space if he's released after the season.



sorry, that million in case it was not obvious


I'd be happy to cover it myself otherwise.

Anyway, he's cooked. Dubious signing originally and sure enough, paying a 32 year old WR 10 mil seems to be not a great idea.

To me, getting a big weapon on the outside is the number one priority this offseason.
RE: RE: .  
JoeyBigBlue : 10/19/2020 8:29 am : link
In comment 15013851 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15013850 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


$4.75 dead space if he's released after the season.



sorry, that million in case it was not obvious



Gettleman should be fired on this signing alone. Why pay Tate 23 million guaranteed when you already have a similar player in Shepard on the team.
people questioned the Tate signing  
Enzo : 10/19/2020 8:34 am : link
at the time...and now it just goes down as another one of DG's debacles.
Again, not to change focus of the post  
jvm52106 : 10/19/2020 8:40 am : link
but, when Jones takes heat look at what he is working with. Tate is a non factor- completely wasting roster space. CJ Board (glad he is ok), Ratley (before release) are castoffs. Slayton is a young player who is NOT a #1. SS cannot stay healthy and is a #2 at best and more likely a #3 on many teams.

What bothers me most about the way the roster options have been put together by DG is his weird affinity for adding players with similar skills- thus making a position group (WR in this case) and a section of the team (Offense in this case) very one dimensional or very bland overall. We literally have 3 complimentary receivers as our starters and one is an aging, declining (declined badly) player, another is a constantly injured player and the 3rd is a second year guy (in his second offense), who was a 5th round surprise last year but who stuill cannot be seen as THE guy. We have no height, no blazers and no bigger possession guys. They are all about the same..
He should be cut  
jlukes : 10/19/2020 8:43 am : link
His body is essentially a corpse out there.

A street free agent could be doing the things he is doing. Probably more.
I was actually for the signing. Guys that have practically zero  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/19/2020 8:43 am : link
Injury and consistent production tend to play WR a long time at a high level.

Problem is our luck has been dog shit. How the hell can you foresee a guy get pinched for PEDs?
Tate stinks at this point of his career no doubt  
Essex : 10/19/2020 8:45 am : link
but this fanbase overrates Shepard. He is another one who has issues remaining on the field and even when he is on the field he is just a bit above average. We can't cut him this year because it would kill us in dead cap money. The signing of Tate and Shepard set this franchise back. Please don't make the same mistake with Engram.
RE: I was actually for the signing. Guys that have practically zero  
Dinger : 10/19/2020 8:50 am : link
In comment 15013877 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Injury and consistent production tend to play WR a long time at a high level.

Problem is our luck has been dog shit. How the hell can you foresee a guy get pinched for PEDs?


Once again, I am in the same boat as you Zeke. I thought he's a tough target and unlike Shep seems healthy. My only reservation at the time was why has he been let go of by so many teams. I think maybe we are seeing this season he may not be the best guy in the locker room as well.
Tate had a little spark last year in some games  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 8:52 am : link
but we are seeing the exact reason why you don't pursue WRs on the wrong side of 30 years old. And particularly not at the dollars he is getting.

Another example of how not to build a team by DG & Co.

Dead money stinks  
Harvest Blend : 10/19/2020 8:55 am : link
but what's done is done. It's Soldier's that's going to really hurt, no?
in all fairness to Tate  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 8:56 am : link
he had a good year last season after the suspension. 49, 676 and 6 TD in 11 games. New staff, new offense has him slow to get going, but it's not like he all of a sudden can't play.
RE: Dead money stinks  
Harvest Blend : 10/19/2020 8:56 am : link
In comment 15013902 Harvest Blend said:
Quote:
but what's done is done. It's Soldier's that's going to really hurt, no?


Solder's. Damn autocorrect.
Essex  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 8:57 am : link
Tate does not "stink." This offense doesn't really have much going for them right now due to injuries and the OL just getting their feet wet.
Yes this was a strange signing  
section125 : 10/19/2020 8:57 am : link
at those numbers. He seems to have either lost interest or lost ability - maybe both.

To bad somebody doesn't need a WR somewhere....eat the $4.75 mill save the $6.1 mill.....
RE: in all fairness to Tate  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 9:01 am : link
In comment 15013905 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
he had a good year last season after the suspension. 49, 676 and 6 TD in 11 games. New staff, new offense has him slow to get going, but it's not like he all of a sudden can't play.


Yeah, it's probably this new Offense that has him in slow gear.

When do you think it will click for him? Thanksgiving might be a good target date.
this board thinks  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 9:01 am : link
that you can't sign any WRs to decently high money and you have to somehow find guys off the scrap heap to play well. You have to use your cap space and Tate's signing is not going to hurt us long term and he was a veteran WR that was necessary to help Jones out on third down, which he did last year.

I wouldn't be shocked if he was back last year. It's a difference of 6M if we release him, which isn't that much in the grand scheme unless we have our eye on a few WR free agents that are going to command big dollars. The annual Shepard injury will happen next year and then we will have Slayton and who exactly?

I'd be fine rolling with Slayton, Shepard, Tate, and a rookie in the 2021 draft.

LBH  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 9:03 am : link
i'm not sure what you want me to say to that. the entire offense is struggling/slow to get going. Tate showed last year he can be productive - I'm not going to just throw in the towel after seeing what this offense is going through with a new scheme and new OL.
RE: this board thinks  
jvm52106 : 10/19/2020 9:04 am : link
In comment 15013916 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
that you can't sign any WRs to decently high money and you have to somehow find guys off the scrap heap to play well. You have to use your cap space and Tate's signing is not going to hurt us long term and he was a veteran WR that was necessary to help Jones out on third down, which he did last year.

I wouldn't be shocked if he was back last year. It's a difference of 6M if we release him, which isn't that much in the grand scheme unless we have our eye on a few WR free agents that are going to command big dollars. The annual Shepard injury will happen next year and then we will have Slayton and who exactly?

I'd be fine rolling with Slayton, Shepard, Tate, and a rookie in the 2021 draft.


Tate has NOTHING left. Watch him on the field. He is slow as all hell and can't juke or cut away from guys. He is not coming back next year.
$4+ million dead cap hit (i think)  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 9:04 am : link
if he gets cut before next year.

You want him playing next season...really?
...  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 9:05 am : link
i have a suspicion that once the OL and Jones start to get more comfortable with the offense you guys are going to want Tate on the field on third down in (hopefully) important games.
Tate WAS a good signing for 1 year as a good yards-after-catch guy  
Ivan15 : 10/19/2020 9:05 am : link
But the Giants should have taken advantage of voiding his contract after the suspension by releasing him without any further obligations.

The Shepard contract was a bigger mistake because the guy can’t stay on the field. But Tate and Shepard are not carbon copies. They just both play their best at the same position. Shepard is not a yards-after-catch guy. He is actually terrible at it.
LBH  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 9:07 am : link
all I'm saying is that Tate is being unfairly criticized here. The entire offense stinks right now - aside from Slayton's big play ability.
RE: LBH  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 9:07 am : link
In comment 15013921 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
i'm not sure what you want me to say to that. the entire offense is struggling/slow to get going. Tate showed last year he can be productive - I'm not going to just throw in the towel after seeing what this offense is going through with a new scheme and new OL.


No, don't throw in the towel. Tate would lose his only fan right now.

Seriously, 32-year old WRs in the NFL don't often just get going, or needing until mid-season to figure out an Offense.
RE: ...  
ajr2456 : 10/19/2020 9:08 am : link
In comment 15013927 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
i have a suspicion that once the OL and Jones start to get more comfortable with the offense you guys are going to want Tate on the field on third down in (hopefully) important games.


Being that any important games won’t be until next year, why would anyone want another year of a WR who can’t get open?
RE: Tate WAS a good signing for 1 year as a good yards-after-catch guy  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 9:11 am : link
In comment 15013928 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
But the Giants should have taken advantage of voiding his contract after the suspension by releasing him without any further obligations.



What is the statute of limitations on this?
LBH  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 9:12 am : link
ok...i get your point. You think Golden Tate sucks. My question is - what are we going to do about it?

Our receivers right now are Slayton and....? Shepard is coming back obviously. Austin Mack?

We don't have any other guys. Clearly we need to address this in the draft, but you guys just want someone to automatically replace Tate. It's not happening.
RE: ...  
UConn4523 : 10/19/2020 9:14 am : link
In comment 15013927 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
i have a suspicion that once the OL and Jones start to get more comfortable with the offense you guys are going to want Tate on the field on third down in (hopefully) important games.


I don't agree. The offense I think can be better than it is if 2 things happened.

1, we need a WR other than Slayton to step up. 2, we need to continue to run Jones to open things up.

Tate is done. He was very solid for us last year but he's got nothing left. If we replaced him with a healthy Shepard I think we'd see a pretty big difference.
it's almost as if  
Enzo : 10/19/2020 9:14 am : link
"rebuilding" teams shouldn't throw big money at players on the wrong side of 30. Somebody should tell DG!
UConn  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 9:16 am : link
Shepard has proven to be injury prone at this point. He's awesome but he can't stay healthy.

We don't have anyone else besides Slayton, Shepard, and Tate. Nobody else is good/has experience being effective in the NFL.
RE: it's almost as if  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 9:18 am : link
In comment 15013947 Enzo said:
Quote:
"rebuilding" teams shouldn't throw big money at players on the wrong side of 30. Somebody should tell DG!

As discussed, we didn't throw huge money at Tate. It was a 2 year deal basically.

We have to use our cap space. Let me ask - what would you have done with the money instead? We didn't draft WR in 2020, we needed veteran help.
RE: UConn  
UConn4523 : 10/19/2020 9:21 am : link
In comment 15013948 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Shepard has proven to be injury prone at this point. He's awesome but he can't stay healthy.

We don't have anyone else besides Slayton, Shepard, and Tate. Nobody else is good/has experience being effective in the NFL.


I know. I'm just saying a healthy Shepard would definitively prove that Tate is done.

Tate can't get separation and drops passes. I'm not sure how well he's even blocking (admittedly I haven't looked for him on this front). He's not good enough to step his game up to make a difference on a team like this. He'd be a decent #3 in a good offense where his non-explosiveness wouldn't matter.
RE: LBH  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 9:22 am : link
In comment 15013941 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
ok...i get your point. You think Golden Tate sucks. My question is - what are we going to do about it?

Our receivers right now are Slayton and....? Shepard is coming back obviously. Austin Mack?

We don't have any other guys. Clearly we need to address this in the draft, but you guys just want someone to automatically replace Tate. It's not happening.


"We" are going to do the only thing we always do...you are going to say Tate played well last year so this will get better, and I am going to think objectively and say differently.

And I don't care who plays. Mentioned numerous times this year that completely ignoring WR throughout free agency AND a deep draft was an odd decision. Not suggesting should have used #1 pick, but starting receiving targets included Shep (concussion issues) and Tate (old) so another body was clearly needed.
RE: ...  
Matt M. : 10/19/2020 9:24 am : link
In comment 15013927 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
i have a suspicion that once the OL and Jones start to get more comfortable with the offense you guys are going to want Tate on the field on third down in (hopefully) important games.
What important games?
So a new system is an excuse  
Matt M. : 10/19/2020 9:27 am : link
for 2nd year players and vets alike?
RE: RE: it's almost as if  
Enzo : 10/19/2020 9:28 am : link
In comment 15013952 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15013947 Enzo said:


Quote:


"rebuilding" teams shouldn't throw big money at players on the wrong side of 30. Somebody should tell DG!


As discussed, we didn't throw huge money at Tate. It was a 2 year deal basically.

We have to use our cap space. Let me ask - what would you have done with the money instead? We didn't draft WR in 2020, we needed veteran help.

you don't "have" to use cap space. Stop saying dumb things.
I admit, at the time, I didn't have a problem with the signing  
Matt M. : 10/19/2020 9:30 am : link
But, before even setting foot on the field he was not only suspended, but had a strange story about it. Whether or not you want to buy his ridiculous claims about the PED test, the bottom line is he seems to have withheld info from the team and their doctors. I would have tried everything in my power to avoid the contract then. I said it then and I stick to that now.
There’s no name  
ajr2456 : 10/19/2020 9:34 am : link
WRs coming out of nowhere and putting up big games all across the league, but we need Golden Tate. The water carrying for this team is tiresome.

Travis Fulgham was a 6th round pick on his third team in as many years and is carrying the Eagles WR Corp.

Tim Patrick, undrafted and bounced around the league having a better season than Tate with probably worse QB play. The list goes on and on.

We don’t need Golden Tate. Cut him and use the $6 million on young players who actually have athleticism left.
The dead money fixation here is nuts  
BillT : 10/19/2020 9:35 am : link
Dead money is a sunk cost. You have to pay it whether the player is on the roster or not. What matters is if you gain or lose cap space if you cut a player. Shepard ($3m), Tate ($6m) and Solder ($6m) can all be cut with those cap savings next year. And that’s with a pre June 1 designation. Post June 1 they can save more. $7m, $8.5m and $10m respectively.
its not Tates  
mittenedman : 10/19/2020 9:35 am : link
fault we stupidly signed him as a #1. hes a 3/4 PR.
I mean its too late now  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/19/2020 9:39 am : link
Giants have, what 4 healthy bodies at WR? SLayton dinged too. Who knows about Shep. Cutting him makes no sense, he knows the routes.
Go look at Tate's production when they signed him  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/19/2020 9:40 am : link
He was fading even before pen was set to paper. A terrible reactionary signing to a self-inflicted position hole.

Just bad.
Enzo  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 9:40 am : link
oh...you don't? Yes you do. NFL requires you to spend 89% on average year over year.


RE: Enzo  
ajr2456 : 10/19/2020 9:41 am : link
In comment 15014019 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
oh...you don't? Yes you do. NFL requires you to spend 89% on average year over year.



You can do that without signing over the hill WRs to mutli year big contracts
ajr  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 9:45 am : link
"multi year big contracts" - Tate's deal was guaranteed for 2 years. His cap number was 7M for 2019 and 10.3M for 2020.


The one thing that DG  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 9:47 am : link
has actually done a pretty good job at, is NOT put a strain on the cap. The veteran signings he has made (aside from Solder) have not affected our ability to sign anyone long term or be flexible long term.

FA WR's cost a lot of money  
rasbutant : 10/19/2020 9:50 am : link
even Middle of the pack kind of guys. That's why if i was running a team I would draft one every year, (along with Oline), how high in the draft would depend on who is available and how the previous years guys worked out.

I would only sign a FA WR's if its a superstar top of the market guy, but it has to be for the right guy.
Or a cheap reclaim project like Corey Coleman.

This year Juju Smith, Allen Robinson will be the top guys and I don't think i trust either one.

Just say no....Sammy Watkins, AJ Green, T.Y Hilton, Kenny Stills.

Reclaim projects if cheap...Corey Davis, John Ross.

you missed the most glaring stat - just 24 targets in 5 games  
Eric on Li : 10/19/2020 9:56 am : link
his catch % is actually at near 80% which is quite good and would be a career high. His YPC is at a career low of 8. Just like Engram. And just like Jones Y/A are dramatically lower this year vs. last year.

Gee, maybe there's a trend here that's bigger than each of these individual players underperforming.
He also seems like a complete POS  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/19/2020 10:01 am : link
.
RE: He also seems like a complete POS  
Eric on Li : 10/19/2020 10:09 am : link
In comment 15014089 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
.


how so?
RE: The one thing that DG  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 10:18 am : link
In comment 15014052 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
has actually done a pretty good job at, is NOT put a strain on the cap. The veteran signings he has made (aside from Solder) have not affected our ability to sign anyone long term or be flexible long term.


4 wins last year and one so far this year. His work here has been awful but thanks for not screwing over the next GM with the cap...yet.

Does that go on the resume?
LBH  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 10:32 am : link
you have an answer for everything and your hatred for DG will always win out. You can't come to grips with the fact that you need to sign veterans to help out if you're a rebuilding team, which is what the Giants are.

You can argue with the Tate signing all you want and call it idiotic or dumb or pathetic or whatever the hell you choose to call DG on any specific day.

The rest of us realize that it's not that much money, clearly they didn't want to draft WR in 2020 and instead chose to invest in OL and defense.

I'd be willing to bet that we go WR within the first 3 rounds of 2021 and perhaps check into some value signings on the free agent market as well. Just don't be surprised if Tate is back in 2021. He's a tough receiver that can make catches over the middle on third down, that's important for Jones' growth. He's not in his prime anymore, we get it.
90%  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 10:34 am : link
of your cap space needs to be spent. If anyone wants to recommend or list what they would have done with that money instead of Golden Tate, I'm all ears. Maybe we would have signed 2 receivers for less who suck even more?

It's not that much money, we are building this team for 2020 and beyond.
RE: LBH  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 10:39 am : link
In comment 15014216 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
you have an answer for everything and your hatred for DG will always win out. You can't come to grips with the fact that you need to sign veterans to help out if you're a rebuilding team, which is what the Giants are.

You can argue with the Tate signing all you want and call it idiotic or dumb or pathetic or whatever the hell you choose to call DG on any specific day.

The rest of us realize that it's not that much money, clearly they didn't want to draft WR in 2020 and instead chose to invest in OL and defense.

I'd be willing to bet that we go WR within the first 3 rounds of 2021 and perhaps check into some value signings on the free agent market as well. Just don't be surprised if Tate is back in 2021. He's a tough receiver that can make catches over the middle on third down, that's important for Jones' growth. He's not in his prime anymore, we get it.


Apologies for having answers.

And of course they should sign some veterans with experience. Can they be reasonably decent at their position though? If not, then I want more draft picks for a rebuilding team.

Here is an idea at WR...let’s trade for the guy that picked off DJ’s pass in the back of the end zone yesterday and let him take Tate’s spot. It was a great effort and he seems to have a good rapport with our QB.
the guy they should have signed over Tate is Crowder  
Eric on Li : 10/19/2020 10:43 am : link
But there will be cases like that every FA cycle. This year I wish they'd have signed Conklin at the number he got and brought in Callahan. Perhaps our OL would have had the day 1 improvement the Browns did. And with another OC perhaps the offense wouldn't have regressed into the stone age of ground and pound.

But back to Tate considering we have no weapons, I'd like to see what he looks like if they used him the same way he was used last year. Same with Engram. I'm not sure how we can evaluate these guys when they get 2 or 3 targets per week and almost all within 10 yards of the LOS. He's catching 80% of what comes his way.
RE: 90%  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 10:48 am : link
In comment 15014224 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
of your cap space needs to be spent. If anyone wants to recommend or list what they would have done with that money instead of Golden Tate, I'm all ears. Maybe we would have signed 2 receivers for less who suck even more?

It's not that much money, we are building this team for 2020 and beyond.


Gettleman did Jones no favors by not pursuing somebody at WR to add to this roster this year. If his earlier signings, other than Solder, have not prevented the team to go out and pursue players then why not add another WR target this spring.

His franchise QB is basically on a 10 game trial for his job and he has nobody to throw the ball to. Thanks.
LBH  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 10:52 am : link
your issue is that you think the Giants offense is a finished product. We have a brand new scheme, our best player out, and we are still building the OL and will add WR in 2021.

You think that the offense is what it is right now and can't see any light, that's your problem.
Another free agent  
Les in TO : 10/19/2020 11:02 am : link
Disaster - Solder Remmers Stewart Bethea etc etc.
RE: Another free agent  
UConn4523 : 10/19/2020 11:06 am : link
In comment 15014282 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Disaster - Solder Remmers Stewart Bethea etc etc.


Jesus, give me a break. Solder I can qualify as a disaster, both the money and the hole it left us since we didn't get the upgrade, but the others?

I'd reserve "disaster" for signings like Albert Haynesworth. $3.4m guaranteed for Bethea isn't a disaster, it was simply a signing that didn't work out well. Same with Stewart.
Its really hard to make a legitimate point  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/19/2020 11:08 am : link
When everyone else trying to make the same point is speaking like the world is ending.
He doesn't get open and drops passes.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/19/2020 11:08 am : link
He's been an absolute non-factor this season. Darius Slayton, a 5th round draft pick from last year who is somewhat hobbled and I'm guessing gets more attention from the opposing defense than Tate, gets open and makes a ton more plays than Tate. He's been horrendous.
RE: ajr  
ajr2456 : 10/19/2020 11:08 am : link
In comment 15014045 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
"multi year big contracts" - Tate's deal was guaranteed for 2 years. His cap number was 7M for 2019 and 10.3M for 2020.



Is two years not multiple years and is a $10m cap hit not a lot?
This was a stupid signing  
GManinDC : 10/19/2020 11:09 am : link
For a team that was supposed to be rebuilding. Wasted money, again.

Wish we can go back and re-read the thread when he was signed. It was all emotional because OBJ was traded.

2 bad moves and still have the same problem!
It's unfortunate  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 10/19/2020 11:10 am : link
It's hardly a disaster
RE: LBH  
ajr2456 : 10/19/2020 11:11 am : link
In comment 15014265 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
your issue is that you think the Giants offense is a finished product. We have a brand new scheme, our best player out, and we are still building the OL and will add WR in 2021.

You think that the offense is what it is right now and can't see any light, that's your problem.


The Giants offense, not a finished product. A recurring storyline since 2016
.  
fkap : 10/19/2020 11:17 am : link
The dead money fixation here is nuts
BillT : 9:35 am : link : reply
Dead money is a sunk cost. You have to pay it whether the player is on the roster or not. What matters is if you gain or lose cap space if you cut a player. Shepard ($3m), Tate ($6m) and Solder ($6m) can all be cut with those cap savings next year. And that’s with a pre June 1 designation. Post June 1 they can save more. $7m, $8.5m and $10m respectively.


I've argued this view ad nauseum. Dead money is bad - a sign of bad signings. But, it's a sunk cost at the time of the contract signing. Right now, as you say, the most important thing is evaluating the play and the cost, or savings, of getting rid of him vs bringing in a new player.

Shepard is a guessing game solely because of his inability to stay on the field. Otherwise, it's hard to replace him for 3 mil. Tate, I think is a no brainer to get rid of. Solder should be shown the door, too, unless a year off has rejuvenated him. He's got no roster bonus due, so a training camp evaluation can show if he could be kept as a backup, or temp starter if we can't find/develop long term starters.

Bottom line, as you said, stop fixating on dead cap and worry about play vs cap savings.
As the GM of NYG  
JonC : 10/19/2020 11:18 am : link
DG's usage of UFA leaves a ton to be desired. I said as much after each move was made, and none of them have lived up to billing : Tate, Solder, Zeitler, have been el stinko with NYG. At least they escaped the Ogletree debacle when the opportunity presented itself.

There's smart signing in UFA, and then there's the above. The 2020 moves look smart as they went after younger, healthier guys who had arrows pointing up and are just approaching their primes. Now, they need to continue to try and infuse the roster with more talent, especially at key positions that STILL have big holes to fill before this team goes anywhere.
I agree the moves ths year has been better  
GManinDC : 10/19/2020 11:25 am : link
It's easier make better decisions when you are now focused on the future.

Too bad had to endure 4 years, but I understand. But it still bothers me.
...  
christian : 10/19/2020 11:25 am : link
Garret’s offense is more predicated on stretching the top, not pitch and catch. Tate is just not a good fit, and he doesn’t have the skills set to be the number 2 outside guy. He’s too short and he’s always worked better in the slot, because he gets jammed outside too easily.

Garret loves the play action, and either going to seams with the TEs or deep to the WRs. It’s the anti-WCO offense.

This was always going to be a problem. The Giants need a big, long guy outside to pair with Slayton, and cross their fingers Shepard can stay healthy for a season.
RE: LBH  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 11:32 am : link
In comment 15014265 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
your issue is that you think the Giants offense is a finished product. We have a brand new scheme, our best player out, and we are still building the OL and will add WR in 2021.

You think that the offense is what it is right now and can't see any light, that's your problem.


I don't have a problem other than I wish my favorite football team would stop making mistakes and entertain better roster decisions.

A Giant offense that is a finished product is some kind mythical thing that you now have turned your attention to in "Excuse-Land".

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest a WR should have been on the GMs shopping list this season. Do you really just want to keep seeing roster holes open during the season at (fill in your position here) and say "we'll address that next year"?

Again, I am not suggesting Gettleman had to find the next Victor Cruz, but could he have done something so we weren't left with zero options when Shepard missed games (yet again), an aging Tate looked to be slowing down (obvious) and Engram looked ineffective (obvious).
Hated the signing  
widmerseyebrow : 10/19/2020 11:48 am : link
and it's become worse than I projected. Career 11.8 YPC paired with Sterling Mediocre's 11.5 YPC. Is there a less feared duo in the league?
Last year's threads on Tate  
GManinDC : 10/19/2020 11:49 am : link
Still looking for the thread when he signed
Link - ( New Window )
...  
christian : 10/19/2020 11:49 am : link
Shepard, Tate, Slayton, Engram, and Barkley could all be healthy -- and that still doesn't match the skillset for the offensive philosophy.

I don't love Garret, but his philosophy with the right play caller (arguably his worst quality), is pretty sound. Run the ball to set-up the deep ball.

Look at the Cowboys last year, when Moore really unleashed their offense. They had 3 WRs with over 50 catches, averaging over 15 YPR. They had 2 outside targets over 6'1." Their slot WR averaged over 9 yards in the air before catch. Tate is averaging 6 this year.

I was really surprised and pleased with Tate last year. I never liked the signing, and I think he is a dope. But he really played well. This year, eek.
Bad signing  
sharp315 : 10/20/2020 12:17 pm : link
Was never a fan of this signing, especially as the "answer" to the Odell trade. He's old and doesn't have the YACability. He also has the same skillset as Shep which makes his signing fairly useless. The team needs a big body X receiver. That was Odell. Odell was a huge annoyance- I get that. But the solution to trading away an X is not to sign a washed up slot guy on a huge contract. Team still doesn't have an X even after the most loaded WR class in a decade.
RE: Another free agent  
Saquads26 : 10/20/2020 12:20 pm : link
In comment 15014282 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Disaster - Solder Remmers Stewart Bethea etc etc.


You’re an idiot
RE: Tate stinks at this point of his career no doubt  
sharp315 : 10/20/2020 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15013882 Essex said:
Quote:
but this fanbase overrates Shepard. He is another one who has issues remaining on the field and even when he is on the field he is just a bit above average. We can't cut him this year because it would kill us in dead cap money. The signing of Tate and Shepard set this franchise back. Please don't make the same mistake with Engram.


Can't sign Shep to that contract then. Shep and Tate signed pretty similar contracts within 1 month of each other to play the same position. Either don't sign Shep, sign and trade Shep (sound familiar?), or don't bring in Tate. Right now we're paying 2 slot fairly hefty sums for minimal production over 1.5 years.
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