We took a cap hit with OBJ and likely should NOT have allowed ownership to push to sign him due to his marketing prowess for the team. But how can a GM not follow orders? I blame Mara for OBJ, Tate and Eli. LOL
Tate will be released after the season along with Solder and I believe Zeitler too UNLESS he picks up his game.
but, when Jones takes heat look at what he is working with. Tate is a non factor- completely wasting roster space. CJ Board (glad he is ok), Ratley (before release) are castoffs. Slayton is a young player who is NOT a #1. SS cannot stay healthy and is a #2 at best and more likely a #3 on many teams.
What bothers me most about the way the roster options have been put together by DG is his weird affinity for adding players with similar skills- thus making a position group (WR in this case) and a section of the team (Offense in this case) very one dimensional or very bland overall. We literally have 3 complimentary receivers as our starters and one is an aging, declining (declined badly) player, another is a constantly injured player and the 3rd is a second year guy (in his second offense), who was a 5th round surprise last year but who stuill cannot be seen as THE guy. We have no height, no blazers and no bigger possession guys. They are all about the same..
but this fanbase overrates Shepard. He is another one who has issues remaining on the field and even when he is on the field he is just a bit above average. We can't cut him this year because it would kill us in dead cap money. The signing of Tate and Shepard set this franchise back. Please don't make the same mistake with Engram.
RE: I was actually for the signing. Guys that have practically zero
Injury and consistent production tend to play WR a long time at a high level.
Problem is our luck has been dog shit. How the hell can you foresee a guy get pinched for PEDs?
Once again, I am in the same boat as you Zeke. I thought he's a tough target and unlike Shep seems healthy. My only reservation at the time was why has he been let go of by so many teams. I think maybe we are seeing this season he may not be the best guy in the locker room as well.
he had a good year last season after the suspension. 49, 676 and 6 TD in 11 games. New staff, new offense has him slow to get going, but it's not like he all of a sudden can't play.
he had a good year last season after the suspension. 49, 676 and 6 TD in 11 games. New staff, new offense has him slow to get going, but it's not like he all of a sudden can't play.
Yeah, it's probably this new Offense that has him in slow gear.
When do you think it will click for him? Thanksgiving might be a good target date.
that you can't sign any WRs to decently high money and you have to somehow find guys off the scrap heap to play well. You have to use your cap space and Tate's signing is not going to hurt us long term and he was a veteran WR that was necessary to help Jones out on third down, which he did last year.
I wouldn't be shocked if he was back last year. It's a difference of 6M if we release him, which isn't that much in the grand scheme unless we have our eye on a few WR free agents that are going to command big dollars. The annual Shepard injury will happen next year and then we will have Slayton and who exactly?
I'd be fine rolling with Slayton, Shepard, Tate, and a rookie in the 2021 draft.
i'm not sure what you want me to say to that. the entire offense is struggling/slow to get going. Tate showed last year he can be productive - I'm not going to just throw in the towel after seeing what this offense is going through with a new scheme and new OL.
that you can't sign any WRs to decently high money and you have to somehow find guys off the scrap heap to play well. You have to use your cap space and Tate's signing is not going to hurt us long term and he was a veteran WR that was necessary to help Jones out on third down, which he did last year.
I wouldn't be shocked if he was back last year. It's a difference of 6M if we release him, which isn't that much in the grand scheme unless we have our eye on a few WR free agents that are going to command big dollars. The annual Shepard injury will happen next year and then we will have Slayton and who exactly?
I'd be fine rolling with Slayton, Shepard, Tate, and a rookie in the 2021 draft.
Tate has NOTHING left. Watch him on the field. He is slow as all hell and can't juke or cut away from guys. He is not coming back next year.
i have a suspicion that once the OL and Jones start to get more comfortable with the offense you guys are going to want Tate on the field on third down in (hopefully) important games.
Tate WAS a good signing for 1 year as a good yards-after-catch guy
But the Giants should have taken advantage of voiding his contract after the suspension by releasing him without any further obligations.
The Shepard contract was a bigger mistake because the guy can’t stay on the field. But Tate and Shepard are not carbon copies. They just both play their best at the same position. Shepard is not a yards-after-catch guy. He is actually terrible at it.
i'm not sure what you want me to say to that. the entire offense is struggling/slow to get going. Tate showed last year he can be productive - I'm not going to just throw in the towel after seeing what this offense is going through with a new scheme and new OL.
No, don't throw in the towel. Tate would lose his only fan right now.
Seriously, 32-year old WRs in the NFL don't often just get going, or needing until mid-season to figure out an Offense.
i have a suspicion that once the OL and Jones start to get more comfortable with the offense you guys are going to want Tate on the field on third down in (hopefully) important games.
Being that any important games won’t be until next year, why would anyone want another year of a WR who can’t get open?
RE: Tate WAS a good signing for 1 year as a good yards-after-catch guy
ok...i get your point. You think Golden Tate sucks. My question is - what are we going to do about it?
Our receivers right now are Slayton and....? Shepard is coming back obviously. Austin Mack?
We don't have any other guys. Clearly we need to address this in the draft, but you guys just want someone to automatically replace Tate. It's not happening.
i have a suspicion that once the OL and Jones start to get more comfortable with the offense you guys are going to want Tate on the field on third down in (hopefully) important games.
I don't agree. The offense I think can be better than it is if 2 things happened.
1, we need a WR other than Slayton to step up. 2, we need to continue to run Jones to open things up.
Tate is done. He was very solid for us last year but he's got nothing left. If we replaced him with a healthy Shepard I think we'd see a pretty big difference.
Shepard has proven to be injury prone at this point. He's awesome but he can't stay healthy.
We don't have anyone else besides Slayton, Shepard, and Tate. Nobody else is good/has experience being effective in the NFL.
I know. I'm just saying a healthy Shepard would definitively prove that Tate is done.
Tate can't get separation and drops passes. I'm not sure how well he's even blocking (admittedly I haven't looked for him on this front). He's not good enough to step his game up to make a difference on a team like this. He'd be a decent #3 in a good offense where his non-explosiveness wouldn't matter.
ok...i get your point. You think Golden Tate sucks. My question is - what are we going to do about it?
Our receivers right now are Slayton and....? Shepard is coming back obviously. Austin Mack?
We don't have any other guys. Clearly we need to address this in the draft, but you guys just want someone to automatically replace Tate. It's not happening.
"We" are going to do the only thing we always do...you are going to say Tate played well last year so this will get better, and I am going to think objectively and say differently.
And I don't care who plays. Mentioned numerous times this year that completely ignoring WR throughout free agency AND a deep draft was an odd decision. Not suggesting should have used #1 pick, but starting receiving targets included Shep (concussion issues) and Tate (old) so another body was clearly needed.
i have a suspicion that once the OL and Jones start to get more comfortable with the offense you guys are going to want Tate on the field on third down in (hopefully) important games.
But, before even setting foot on the field he was not only suspended, but had a strange story about it. Whether or not you want to buy his ridiculous claims about the PED test, the bottom line is he seems to have withheld info from the team and their doctors. I would have tried everything in my power to avoid the contract then. I said it then and I stick to that now.
Dead money is a sunk cost. You have to pay it whether the player is on the roster or not. What matters is if you gain or lose cap space if you cut a player. Shepard ($3m), Tate ($6m) and Solder ($6m) can all be cut with those cap savings next year. And that’s with a pre June 1 designation. Post June 1 they can save more. $7m, $8.5m and $10m respectively.
sorry, that million in case it was not obvious
Tate will be released after the season along with Solder and I believe Zeitler too UNLESS he picks up his game.
Quote:
$4.75 dead space if he's released after the season.
sorry, that million in case it was not obvious
I'd be happy to cover it myself otherwise.
Anyway, he's cooked. Dubious signing originally and sure enough, paying a 32 year old WR 10 mil seems to be not a great idea.
To me, getting a big weapon on the outside is the number one priority this offseason.
Quote:
$4.75 dead space if he's released after the season.
sorry, that million in case it was not obvious
Gettleman should be fired on this signing alone. Why pay Tate 23 million guaranteed when you already have a similar player in Shepard on the team.
What bothers me most about the way the roster options have been put together by DG is his weird affinity for adding players with similar skills- thus making a position group (WR in this case) and a section of the team (Offense in this case) very one dimensional or very bland overall. We literally have 3 complimentary receivers as our starters and one is an aging, declining (declined badly) player, another is a constantly injured player and the 3rd is a second year guy (in his second offense), who was a 5th round surprise last year but who stuill cannot be seen as THE guy. We have no height, no blazers and no bigger possession guys. They are all about the same..
A street free agent could be doing the things he is doing. Probably more.
Problem is our luck has been dog shit. How the hell can you foresee a guy get pinched for PEDs?
Problem is our luck has been dog shit. How the hell can you foresee a guy get pinched for PEDs?
Once again, I am in the same boat as you Zeke. I thought he's a tough target and unlike Shep seems healthy. My only reservation at the time was why has he been let go of by so many teams. I think maybe we are seeing this season he may not be the best guy in the locker room as well.
Another example of how not to build a team by DG & Co.
Solder's. Damn autocorrect.
To bad somebody doesn't need a WR somewhere....eat the $4.75 mill save the $6.1 mill.....
Yeah, it's probably this new Offense that has him in slow gear.
When do you think it will click for him? Thanksgiving might be a good target date.
I wouldn't be shocked if he was back last year. It's a difference of 6M if we release him, which isn't that much in the grand scheme unless we have our eye on a few WR free agents that are going to command big dollars. The annual Shepard injury will happen next year and then we will have Slayton and who exactly?
I'd be fine rolling with Slayton, Shepard, Tate, and a rookie in the 2021 draft.
I wouldn't be shocked if he was back last year. It's a difference of 6M if we release him, which isn't that much in the grand scheme unless we have our eye on a few WR free agents that are going to command big dollars. The annual Shepard injury will happen next year and then we will have Slayton and who exactly?
I'd be fine rolling with Slayton, Shepard, Tate, and a rookie in the 2021 draft.
Tate has NOTHING left. Watch him on the field. He is slow as all hell and can't juke or cut away from guys. He is not coming back next year.
You want him playing next season...really?
The Shepard contract was a bigger mistake because the guy can’t stay on the field. But Tate and Shepard are not carbon copies. They just both play their best at the same position. Shepard is not a yards-after-catch guy. He is actually terrible at it.
No, don't throw in the towel. Tate would lose his only fan right now.
Seriously, 32-year old WRs in the NFL don't often just get going, or needing until mid-season to figure out an Offense.
Being that any important games won’t be until next year, why would anyone want another year of a WR who can’t get open?
What is the statute of limitations on this?
Our receivers right now are Slayton and....? Shepard is coming back obviously. Austin Mack?
We don't have any other guys. Clearly we need to address this in the draft, but you guys just want someone to automatically replace Tate. It's not happening.
I don't agree. The offense I think can be better than it is if 2 things happened.
1, we need a WR other than Slayton to step up. 2, we need to continue to run Jones to open things up.
Tate is done. He was very solid for us last year but he's got nothing left. If we replaced him with a healthy Shepard I think we'd see a pretty big difference.
We don't have anyone else besides Slayton, Shepard, and Tate. Nobody else is good/has experience being effective in the NFL.
As discussed, we didn't throw huge money at Tate. It was a 2 year deal basically.
We have to use our cap space. Let me ask - what would you have done with the money instead? We didn't draft WR in 2020, we needed veteran help.
We don't have anyone else besides Slayton, Shepard, and Tate. Nobody else is good/has experience being effective in the NFL.
I know. I'm just saying a healthy Shepard would definitively prove that Tate is done.
Tate can't get separation and drops passes. I'm not sure how well he's even blocking (admittedly I haven't looked for him on this front). He's not good enough to step his game up to make a difference on a team like this. He'd be a decent #3 in a good offense where his non-explosiveness wouldn't matter.
Our receivers right now are Slayton and....? Shepard is coming back obviously. Austin Mack?
We don't have any other guys. Clearly we need to address this in the draft, but you guys just want someone to automatically replace Tate. It's not happening.
"We" are going to do the only thing we always do...you are going to say Tate played well last year so this will get better, and I am going to think objectively and say differently.
And I don't care who plays. Mentioned numerous times this year that completely ignoring WR throughout free agency AND a deep draft was an odd decision. Not suggesting should have used #1 pick, but starting receiving targets included Shep (concussion issues) and Tate (old) so another body was clearly needed.
Quote:
"rebuilding" teams shouldn't throw big money at players on the wrong side of 30. Somebody should tell DG!
As discussed, we didn't throw huge money at Tate. It was a 2 year deal basically.
We have to use our cap space. Let me ask - what would you have done with the money instead? We didn't draft WR in 2020, we needed veteran help.
you don't "have" to use cap space. Stop saying dumb things.
Travis Fulgham was a 6th round pick on his third team in as many years and is carrying the Eagles WR Corp.
Tim Patrick, undrafted and bounced around the league having a better season than Tate with probably worse QB play. The list goes on and on.
We don’t need Golden Tate. Cut him and use the $6 million on young players who actually have athleticism left.
Just bad.
You can do that without signing over the hill WRs to mutli year big contracts