The "win" yesterday felt like a loss because we are not officially out of the running for Lawerence. Jones continually makes bad decisions and is on pace for the worst "starting QB" statistical season in NFL history.
Through 6 games, he has 889 yards, 2TDs and 5 picks..
Over a 16 game season, that translates to 2371 yards, 5.3 Tds, and 13.3 picks.
This is the guy we drafted 6th overall....and I didn't even mention the fumbles. A complete and utter joke. I don't care about the "lack of talent" around him. The greats elevate the team around them. Jones continually does the opposite.
We are officially in QB hell.
Getting close to year 10 of bad football with the same recycled excuses, but sure. This team is great, headed in the right direction!
Okay I am sick of ten years of bad football with people continually pointing to the same issues. Is that better?
I've always laughed at the "excuses" posts. I don't coach or play for the Giants. Whatever any of us say have no impact - thinking they are great or terrible has zero impact. "Excuses" are actually "reasons" why we as fans think something.
I've never argued with anyone about sports and claimed they were making excuses. Its such a weird phenomenon I've only ever come across on BBI.
If Judge starts crying about this or that being unfair then I'll see reason for using that classification. Until then, we are all arguing about differences of opinion.
Boyd and Higgins would be our top 2 WR's right now.
I love how guys fawn over a "functional offense". What is it translating into? Were you happy over our "functional offense" last season?
If they didn’t have an offense they should fire their head coach immediately, they had a big yardage offense with Andy Dalton at QB and hired their head coach for the sole purpose of employing his offensive savvy.
That’s not where we’re at.
Had they traded A.J. green 3 years ago, and lost Tyler Boyd and joe Mixon to injury, then they’d be worthy of a comparison
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A rookie WR who is playing well. The corpse of AJ Green. An average Tyler Boyd. Burrow has even been sacked 7 more times than Jones, and yet their offense looks way more functional than whatever the Giants throw out there.
Boyd and Higgins would be our top 2 WR's right now.
I love how guys fawn over a "functional offense". What is it translating into? Were you happy over our "functional offense" last season?
Their offense is better than ours with worse OL and a QB in his first 6 games with no offseason.
When I judge QB, I look at someone that elevates the players around them. Someone you can see taking them to the promise land and winning a superbowl. I see NONE of that qualities in Jones. Zero. The only time I saw it was his first game when we beat Tampa. That is a distant memory. He has costed this team more than he has helped week after week.
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In comment 15014339 ajr2456 said:
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A rookie WR who is playing well. The corpse of AJ Green. An average Tyler Boyd. Burrow has even been sacked 7 more times than Jones, and yet their offense looks way more functional than whatever the Giants throw out there.
Boyd and Higgins would be our top 2 WR's right now.
I love how guys fawn over a "functional offense". What is it translating into? Were you happy over our "functional offense" last season?
Their offense is better than ours with worse OL and a QB in his first 6 games with no offseason.
Why are you keen to compare Danny Jones to a heisman winning national championship winning QB when you probably weren’t willing to give up 3 1st rounders, along with players included, to get him? Burrow was never in our trajectory, how is this in anyway comparable??
They live in 11 personnel, we’ve already seen that Jones can operate that style of offense, how is this relevant???
Can't flip through every excuse for us while the Bengals worked through the same offseason challenges with a rookie qb and limited talent and still run a good offense.
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In comment 15014241 HomerJones45 said:
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And no, I don't want to see him doing a lot of running. Everyone loves a running qb until they are on the sideline on crutches. And that's not an "if", that's a "when." The qb's who do a lot of running are the ones who aren't very good at throwing. The qb's who last a long time are not runners.
I don't believe this to be true anymore. These guys can slide and run without having to take big hits. Look at Russell Wilson. QBs get hurt constantly in the pocket as well. Probably more so. I think the league is moving beyond pocket passers who the D can now tee off on and into dynamic QBs who create with their legs and arms.
Were you paying attention to Prescott? Every year a couple of these running qb's misses significant time with injuries or are less effective because they are gimpy from a lower leg injury. Everyone loves the running qb until they are on crutches on the sideline.
You mean pocket passers like Rothelisberger? Brady? Brees? Rivers? These guys are all playing age 38+. There's a reason for that. Is the new rage Herbert, a runner?
Running a QB aside, why do you care with DJ? You basically state that he's broken and his tendencies can't be fixed. Who cares if he can't play for 20 years if he's not good? Then to work with him they should go out and get some stud WR who can outmuscle the opposition for the ball, like that WR is so easy to find.
If the Giants want to develop this QB, DJ, they have to start using his best abilities which are accuracy and running. Keep Ds guessing and not attacking like they've doing to Giants teams the last 8 years.
Exactly what are we supposed to be admiring from the Bengals?
For a measurement I usually have faith in, this evaluation makes no sense to me. And I get that they also include a QB’s running stats. So weight is applied there.
But you can’t say Jones was anything other than ordinary yesterday. We only scored 13 points from the offense and he threw an interception in the endzone.
Just don’t get it....
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I see a lot of people coming to Jones defense and a lot of fans are already ready to throw in the towel. I’ll just say this. He’s not giving me any hope that he is our QB of the future but he’s clearly shown he has some skills to play in this league. I don’t know if he’ll put it all together eventually and I don’t know if the giants will be patient enough to find out. He better step it up these final 10 games and give the fan base some hope moving forward.
When I judge QB, I look at someone that elevates the players around them. Someone you can see taking them to the promise land and winning a superbowl. I see NONE of that qualities in Jones. Zero. The only time I saw it was his first game when we beat Tampa. That is a distant memory. He has costed this team more than he has helped week after week.
How do you, with a straight face, state that he has “NONE.Zero.” qualities that you can see, and in the exact next sentence state that you saw those qualities once upon a time.
Are you ABSOLUTELY certain your eyes are working?
Exactly what are we supposed to be admiring from the Bengals?
This year. Stay on topic.
The Bengals offense is better than the Giants with not much more talent and a rookie with no offseason.
I care about Daniel Jones and the Giants. There are very few teams with as little talent on offense as us, especially without Barkley. That is what makes it very dangerous to judge Jones for the future. Honestly, how can anyone say with much confidence he is OR is not equipped to lead this team for the next decade? Last year he made a lot of exciting plays. He also made a ton of bad decisions, INTs, and fumbles. So, the net result of his exciting infusion of running and TDs amounted to same old shit in the W-L column.
This year we are seeing about the same level of play with inexplicably LESS talent and the result is less points and the same old shit in the W-L column. With more talent, would we be seeing a top half of the league QB? No clue and I have no clue how the Giants are suppose to make the same determination, especially if they end up with the #1 pick.
The extreme arguments for seemingly every topic make it impossible to hold a meaningful dialogue. No matter what, a sane posters seems to have to disagree with an argument just to enter the conversation. Then you are made out to sound like you are taking a diametrically opposed stance, when you are just disputing extreme nonsense.
For example, I can't subscribe to Jones being a complete and utter disaster. Nothing logically or visually presents itself to me to support this. But, arguing that could make it seem like I am confident in him, which I can't say one way or the other.
As for Lawrence, if the Giants are actually bad enough to get the #1 pick it is very hard to say not to pick him. He is, by every account, a better QB and more of a sure thing. But, the reality is nobody is a sure thing in the draft. We've seen a lot of can't miss QBs miss and vice versa. So, how do the giants properly assess Jones? The only thing I think I am certain of is with the #1 pick the Giants should not select anyone other than Lawrence. They should either take him, or get a package to trade down that nets them a decent #1 this year, a #2 this year, and a #1 next year.
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had 24 TD's last season.
Exactly what are we supposed to be admiring from the Bengals?
This year. Stay on topic.
The Bengals offense is better than the Giants with not much more talent and a rookie with no offseason.
Not much more talent?!?! The Bengals skill players can run laps around what the Giants have right now. All of them to a man. We have a slightly better line, but the discrepancy in skill players is a fucking ocean.
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In comment 15014356 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15014339 ajr2456 said:
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A rookie WR who is playing well. The corpse of AJ Green. An average Tyler Boyd. Burrow has even been sacked 7 more times than Jones, and yet their offense looks way more functional than whatever the Giants throw out there.
Boyd and Higgins would be our top 2 WR's right now.
I love how guys fawn over a "functional offense". What is it translating into? Were you happy over our "functional offense" last season?
Their offense is better than ours with worse OL and a QB in his first 6 games with no offseason.
Why are you keen to compare Danny Jones to a heisman winning national championship winning QB when you probably weren’t willing to give up 3 1st rounders, along with players included, to get him? Burrow was never in our trajectory, how is this in anyway comparable??
They live in 11 personnel, we’ve already seen that Jones can operate that style of offense, how is this relevant???
Who said the Giants should have gotten Burrow?
It’s relevant because a rookie with no offseason and no preseason looks better than a QB in his 2nd year. Burrow is in a new offense. His oline is worse. Other QBs around the league seem to do ok with the same excuses made for Jones. “The oline stinks”. “It’s a new offense”. Etc, etc.
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In comment 15014412 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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had 24 TD's last season.
Exactly what are we supposed to be admiring from the Bengals?
This year. Stay on topic.
The Bengals offense is better than the Giants with not much more talent and a rookie with no offseason.
Not much more talent?!?! The Bengals skill players can run laps around what the Giants have right now. All of them to a man. We have a slightly better line, but the discrepancy in skill players is a fucking ocean.
Higgins is a rookie. Boyd is average. AJ Green is toast. Mixon is an upgrade over Freeman but not by much.
Why the hell are we paying Golden Tate $10 million if there’s an ocean between him and Tyler Boyd?
I don’t think you understand football if you’re comparing a one off random bad game from Rodgers to a 6 game stretch from Jones.
Soon enough we’ll be approaching the end of Jones’ rookie contract and Year 12 of bad to mediocre football wondering if we wasted the rookie contracts of our 2020-2022 draft picks.
So Rodgers one poor game trumps his five prior excellent games? Had DJ has any good games this year?
And in the prior game to Tampa Rodgers, was playing with receivers that were only second in "no name" status to the anonymous stable in Philly.
Is it too much to ask for your QB picked #6 to be slightly worse than say Ryan Fitzpatrick in his second year?
You played in the NFL?
For everyone else, it's shit
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Obviously you never played ball. Yes excuse were made for Eli also. But when you gave Eli an OL and some weapons he won 2 Superbowls. Look at the stats. Less time than any QB in football. How many QBs just stand there and have all day to throw? Kid was 9/10 at one point with a throw away. We don’t have one receiver who would be a top two on more than 60% of the league. (Yes includes Slayton) and we do not have a #1. Our left tackle leads the NFL on pressures but all of that doesn’t matter. Clueless.
You played in the NFL?
He is saying that perhaps you lack the understanding of football from the perspective of being on the team. Relevant point in my opinion.
He is not as advertised or promoted. He's not the disaster that his detractors maintain either. He appears to be what some draft commentators said he was- a mid first rounder whose ceiling is starter. The FO has a tough decision: with Barkley in the final year of his contract next season and coming off an injury, is Jones good enough to build the team around and either trade Barkley or not re-sign him after next season. So far, the answer is "no".
For everyone else, it's shit
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for all of those that wake up on Monday and check the box score and form their opinions
For everyone else, it's shit
Then stay the fuck off it and let the adults talk.
⚡
Ah so now data matters, if it fits your narrative.
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At the time. BTW his QBR (with no one) is still better than Wentz, Burrow, Newton, Cousins, and young QBs Darnold & Haskins.
Ah so now data matters, if it fits your narrative.
Wouldn't the converse apply as well?
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In comment 15014524 Carl in CT said:
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Obviously you never played ball. Yes excuse were made for Eli also. But when you gave Eli an OL and some weapons he won 2 Superbowls. Look at the stats. Less time than any QB in football. How many QBs just stand there and have all day to throw? Kid was 9/10 at one point with a throw away. We don’t have one receiver who would be a top two on more than 60% of the league. (Yes includes Slayton) and we do not have a #1. Our left tackle leads the NFL on pressures but all of that doesn’t matter. Clueless.
You played in the NFL?
He is saying that perhaps you lack the understanding of football from the perspective of being on the team. Relevant point in my opinion.
I’ll take talking to scouts and front office people weekly over playing 1AA college football 20 years ago.
Just saw a stat that DJ threw 1...yes 1, pass of 20+ yards yesterday. On the season, a whopping total of 11. Don't blame the kid for that, blame the OC!
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In comment 15014532 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15014524 Carl in CT said:
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Obviously you never played ball. Yes excuse were made for Eli also. But when you gave Eli an OL and some weapons he won 2 Superbowls. Look at the stats. Less time than any QB in football. How many QBs just stand there and have all day to throw? Kid was 9/10 at one point with a throw away. We don’t have one receiver who would be a top two on more than 60% of the league. (Yes includes Slayton) and we do not have a #1. Our left tackle leads the NFL on pressures but all of that doesn’t matter. Clueless.
You played in the NFL?
He is saying that perhaps you lack the understanding of football from the perspective of being on the team. Relevant point in my opinion.
I’ll take talking to scouts and front office people weekly over playing 1AA college football 20 years ago.
I imagine some of what you say is from your sources, I'll bet a lot of what you say is from your own analyses which can be rightfully doubted as can mine.
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In comment 15014545 crick n NC said:
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In comment 15014532 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15014524 Carl in CT said:
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Obviously you never played ball. Yes excuse were made for Eli also. But when you gave Eli an OL and some weapons he won 2 Superbowls. Look at the stats. Less time than any QB in football. How many QBs just stand there and have all day to throw? Kid was 9/10 at one point with a throw away. We don’t have one receiver who would be a top two on more than 60% of the league. (Yes includes Slayton) and we do not have a #1. Our left tackle leads the NFL on pressures but all of that doesn’t matter. Clueless.
You played in the NFL?
He is saying that perhaps you lack the understanding of football from the perspective of being on the team. Relevant point in my opinion.
I’ll take talking to scouts and front office people weekly over playing 1AA college football 20 years ago.
I imagine some of what you say is from your sources, I'll bet a lot of what you say is from your own analyses which can be rightfully doubted as can mine.
And yet here we are, I’ve been dead on about the trajectory of this team the last 4 years. I didn’t even need to play D2 football either!
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In comment 15014564 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15014545 crick n NC said:
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In comment 15014532 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15014524 Carl in CT said:
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Obviously you never played ball. Yes excuse were made for Eli also. But when you gave Eli an OL and some weapons he won 2 Superbowls. Look at the stats. Less time than any QB in football. How many QBs just stand there and have all day to throw? Kid was 9/10 at one point with a throw away. We don’t have one receiver who would be a top two on more than 60% of the league. (Yes includes Slayton) and we do not have a #1. Our left tackle leads the NFL on pressures but all of that doesn’t matter. Clueless.
You played in the NFL?
He is saying that perhaps you lack the understanding of football from the perspective of being on the team. Relevant point in my opinion.
I’ll take talking to scouts and front office people weekly over playing 1AA college football 20 years ago.
I imagine some of what you say is from your sources, I'll bet a lot of what you say is from your own analyses which can be rightfully doubted as can mine.
And yet here we are, I’ve been dead on about the trajectory of this team the last 4 years. I didn’t even need to play D2 football either!
It seems to me a lot of fans say this type of thing. Even if you were dead on as you say doesn't mean you shouldn't be doubted. People are not infallible.
What were you dead on about? "Dead on" is a key phrase here.
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In comment 15014581 crick n NC said:
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In comment 15014564 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15014545 crick n NC said:
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In comment 15014532 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15014524 Carl in CT said:
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Obviously you never played ball. Yes excuse were made for Eli also. But when you gave Eli an OL and some weapons he won 2 Superbowls. Look at the stats. Less time than any QB in football. How many QBs just stand there and have all day to throw? Kid was 9/10 at one point with a throw away. We don’t have one receiver who would be a top two on more than 60% of the league. (Yes includes Slayton) and we do not have a #1. Our left tackle leads the NFL on pressures but all of that doesn’t matter. Clueless.
You played in the NFL?
He is saying that perhaps you lack the understanding of football from the perspective of being on the team. Relevant point in my opinion.
I’ll take talking to scouts and front office people weekly over playing 1AA college football 20 years ago.
I imagine some of what you say is from your sources, I'll bet a lot of what you say is from your own analyses which can be rightfully doubted as can mine.
And yet here we are, I’ve been dead on about the trajectory of this team the last 4 years. I didn’t even need to play D2 football either!
It seems to me a lot of fans say this type of thing. Even if you were dead on as you say doesn't mean you shouldn't be doubted. People are not infallible.
What were you dead on about? "Dead on" is a key phrase here.
That right time to start moving on from Eli was 2017 and if we didn’t start to it would set us back - and it did.
That we shouldn’t take a RB because we weren’t in a position to maximize his talents.
That Gettleman was a bad hire. Checks out.
That this team would continue to be bad year after year because they aren’t a well run team.
I don’t have the time to continue to list other examples.
Otherwise, this is heading for disaster territory.
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In comment 15014592 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15014581 crick n NC said:
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In comment 15014564 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15014545 crick n NC said:
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In comment 15014532 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15014524 Carl in CT said:
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Obviously you never played ball. Yes excuse were made for Eli also. But when you gave Eli an OL and some weapons he won 2 Superbowls. Look at the stats. Less time than any QB in football. How many QBs just stand there and have all day to throw? Kid was 9/10 at one point with a throw away. We don’t have one receiver who would be a top two on more than 60% of the league. (Yes includes Slayton) and we do not have a #1. Our left tackle leads the NFL on pressures but all of that doesn’t matter. Clueless.
You played in the NFL?
He is saying that perhaps you lack the understanding of football from the perspective of being on the team. Relevant point in my opinion.
I’ll take talking to scouts and front office people weekly over playing 1AA college football 20 years ago.
I imagine some of what you say is from your sources, I'll bet a lot of what you say is from your own analyses which can be rightfully doubted as can mine.
And yet here we are, I’ve been dead on about the trajectory of this team the last 4 years. I didn’t even need to play D2 football either!
It seems to me a lot of fans say this type of thing. Even if you were dead on as you say doesn't mean you shouldn't be doubted. People are not infallible.
What were you dead on about? "Dead on" is a key phrase here.
That right time to start moving on from Eli was 2017 and if we didn’t start to it would set us back - and it did.
That we shouldn’t take a RB because we weren’t in a position to maximize his talents.
That Gettleman was a bad hire. Checks out.
That this team would continue to be bad year after year because they aren’t a well run team.
I don’t have the time to continue to list other examples.
You gave me three specifics out of a countless list of things you were dead on about, so thanks for that.
You are confusing being right in your own eyes versus being proven right. There are still reasonable cases to be made for all that you have listed which prevents your suggestions as being "dead on". Black and White thinking has its purpose when cases are "black or white".