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Leonard Williams

djstat : 10/19/2020 12:28 pm
Putting aside the trade, and his salary, I am curious what everyone else thinks about his play on 2020.
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.  
Danny Kanell : 10/19/2020 12:29 pm : link
He's having the best season in his career, by far.
He's been terrific.  
Section331 : 10/19/2020 12:30 pm : link
Probably the most consistent player on defense. I wasn't a fan of the trade, but Williams has made it look like a decent one.
I think he's being paid to be a game changer  
Giantsfan79 : 10/19/2020 12:33 pm : link
and he's deep enough into his career to say he's not a game changer. Good player but overpaid compared to his production.
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 10/19/2020 12:36 pm : link
In comment 15014496 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
He's having the best season in his career, by far.


he's on about the same pace as his 2016 season (which was his lone pro bowl year).

he is a solid player and if they can get him back on a FMV contract I'd do it. If not hopefully they recoup the pick. Or they can tag him again, though this year I think I'd be willing to risk the transition tag instead of the franchise tag with the flat cap.
Williams and Lawrence make a very formidable interior  
George from PA : 10/19/2020 12:36 pm : link
If we can add a monster edge....this grouping will start cooking.

RE: I think he's being paid to be a game changer  
Eric on Li : 10/19/2020 12:38 pm : link
In comment 15014504 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
and he's deep enough into his career to say he's not a game changer. Good player but overpaid compared to his production.


Define gamechanger. He's not a contender for DPOY but he's also not paid anywhere near that level of player at his position (Donald and Buckner specifically).
He has looked good enough to get a decent pick  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 12:39 pm : link
or maybe a developing WR or Center in a trade.

Start working the phones.
He’s a good player but I’m not sure  
Metnut : 10/19/2020 12:42 pm : link
gems worth the franchise tag or the cap hit that extending him will cost.
playing well  
Hilary : 10/19/2020 12:45 pm : link
Playing well but we would be better off with the third round pick and using the 17 million on other free agents available.
It's been really good  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/19/2020 12:46 pm : link
I think he's been better as a pass rusher than a run stuffer, but he looks active and disruptive.
Gettleman haters  
Johnny5 : 10/19/2020 12:48 pm : link
Will underplay this pickup even if he was the best defender in the NFL... lol.

It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.
RE: Gettleman haters  
cokeduplt : 10/19/2020 12:53 pm : link
In comment 15014537 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Will underplay this pickup even if he was the best defender in the NFL... lol.

It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.



Eventhough he’s playing really well it’s still a dumb trade
Williams  
stretch234 : 10/19/2020 12:54 pm : link
I still think him and Lawrence would be tremendous as 4-3 DT

What is FMV for a player like him -

recent contracts for interior players indicate it is going to be 15-18M for him.

I am keeping him over Tomlinson
RE: playing well  
cokeduplt : 10/19/2020 12:54 pm : link
In comment 15014527 Hilary said:
Quote:
Playing well but we would be better off with the third round pick and using the 17 million on other free agents available.



Especially since he was going to be a free agent anyway
....  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 12:56 pm : link
plenty of season left to go, but a lot of posters here spent the last half of 2019 calling for DG to be fired solely based on the Williams trade alone.
He's a very good player  
giants#1 : 10/19/2020 12:57 pm : link
and it's not a coincidence that Tomlinson has played his best ball since the LW acquisition. His salary isn't that big of a deal, he's probably a little overpaid but despite what many believe, he's not getting paid like an elite pass rusher. If he was in that category, he'd be getting >$20M per (easy). And his ability to disrupt the pocket would be even more evident with an elite ER.

That said, trading for him was dumb and a waste of assets. DG would've been better off waiting until the offseason and giving him a 5 yr/$75M deal.
RE: ....  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 1:02 pm : link
In comment 15014551 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
plenty of season left to go, but a lot of posters here spent the last half of 2019 calling for DG to be fired solely based on the Williams trade alone.


So what? Would you rather they create a lengthy list of reasons for you to go thru instead to come to the same conclusion? It won't be difficult.

Not all hot takes are wrong in sentiment, just the words they choose.

RE: RE: .  
rsjem1979 : 10/19/2020 1:02 pm : link
In comment 15014507 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15014496 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


He's having the best season in his career, by far.



he's on about the same pace as his 2016 season (which was his lone pro bowl year).

he is a solid player and if they can get him back on a FMV contract I'd do it. If not hopefully they recoup the pick. Or they can tag him again, though this year I think I'd be willing to risk the transition tag instead of the franchise tag with the flat cap.


Tagging him again pushes his cap number north of $20 million.
he played well from the stand up position  
Platos : 10/19/2020 1:04 pm : link
maybe they should try that more on passing downs.
He was definitely a force yesterday......  
GiantBlue : 10/19/2020 1:12 pm : link
as was Dalvin.

But he isn't that guy offenses are going to gameplan around like Aaron Donald or the Bosa's.
Kinda wish we got him on that 15 million a year contract now.  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/19/2020 1:22 pm : link
He'll be seeking more after this year.
RE: Gettleman haters  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/19/2020 1:25 pm : link
In comment 15014537 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Will underplay this pickup even if he was the best defender in the NFL... lol.

It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.


Unfortunately we probably lost out playing hard ball with him. He's going to sign a deal in the 18-20 million range assuming what the cap looks like moving forward (a lot of uncertainty there as far as revenues)

Ironically, there is a large contingent of people here that would have went ape shit if he signed a 15 million a year contract. He is certainly worth that, and he'd have more sacks under his belt if we had any semblance of an edge pass rush.
I mean at some point we have to pay someone  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/19/2020 1:27 pm : link
if we let him go then draft another DT?

The dumbass trade is now over. Moving forward if he helps us he helps us.
....  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 10/19/2020 1:28 pm : link
One thing to consider

LW looks like a nice piece to the defense, and is young.

If they were to sign him, and front load the contract, who do they risk losing? What young players on the GMEN needing to lock up long term?

I think enough teams have a handle on the cap that truly good players don't shake loose that often. If he were to be replaced through FA, who do you find that offers more value at a better price tag?
He has looked good, no doubt.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/19/2020 1:29 pm : link
Not sure he's worth the $ he wants though.
I liked the  
GoDeep13 : 10/19/2020 1:34 pm : link
Way he was rushing off the edge. We don’t use him in that way often but it made him more effective as a pass rusher. I was surprised how good he looked rushing standing up.
RE: Kinda wish we got him on that 15 million a year contract now.  
Enzo : 10/19/2020 1:38 pm : link
In comment 15014594 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
He'll be seeking more after this year.

one of the issues with the trade was that DG gave Williams immediately had all of the leverage in any negotiation. His agent knew all along DG was going to franchise him.
Pay him...  
Dnew15 : 10/19/2020 1:39 pm : link
pay that man his money.
Playing pretty well...  
bw in dc : 10/19/2020 1:39 pm : link
Which hopefully means he has rising asset value and we can trade him for something decent at the upcoming deadline.
RE: Kinda wish we got him on that 15 million a year contract now.  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 1:50 pm : link
In comment 15014594 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
He'll be seeking more after this year.


Who ever suggested that LW and his agent ever had that price in mind?
Playing well  
JonC : 10/19/2020 1:59 pm : link
but I reserve that premium level of open market dollars for the Edge, especially when they're doing ok finding 3-4/4-3 DL with some level of scheme flexibility.

Hard to get behind rolling out a plus DL with no Edge talent behind it. Paying LW and/or Tomlinson doesn't resolve it, Dexter will be for his second deal before you know it. Something's got to change at a foundational/design level of both the football vision and the cap allocation.
RE: Playing well  
jlukes : 10/19/2020 2:02 pm : link
In comment 15014652 JonC said:
Quote:
but I reserve that premium level of open market dollars for the Edge, especially when they're doing ok finding 3-4/4-3 DL with some level of scheme flexibility.

Hard to get behind rolling out a plus DL with no Edge talent behind it. Paying LW and/or Tomlinson doesn't resolve it, Dexter will be for his second deal before you know it. Something's got to change at a foundational/design level of both the football vision and the cap allocation.


At this point I'd give Williams money before Tomlinson and Dexter. Lawrence has been very disappointing this year, but maybe it is just because how we are using him isn't setting him up for flashy plays?
He's  
AcidTest : 10/19/2020 2:03 pm : link
played well. As someone said, he'd be a lot more effective if we had some type of edge rush. But I still don't like the trade. He'll also likely want a huge contract in the offseason, more than we'll probably want to pay.
ALWAYS.....  
GMen72 : 10/19/2020 2:11 pm : link
be skeptical of an inconsistent player who's playing for a contract. This is exactly the type of player the Giants will sign to a overpriced longterm deal and get no where near the ROI they should. Save the money and put it towards a legit pass rusher.
LBH  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 2:23 pm : link
I'm not entirely sure what that means. Are you saying that people who said the trade was awful and Gettleman should be fired....somehow were correct?
i don't understand this  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 2:24 pm : link
we have a guy who is playing really well, a young interior DL who looks the part in this defense....and you guys don't want to pay him?

Just who do you want to pay?
RE: LBH  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 2:30 pm : link
In comment 15014703 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I'm not entirely sure what that means. Are you saying that people who said the trade was awful and Gettleman should be fired....somehow were correct?


The trade was awful. And DG should be fired.

What's the incorrect piece?
RE: i don't understand this  
bw in dc : 10/19/2020 2:31 pm : link
In comment 15014707 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
we have a guy who is playing really well, a young interior DL who looks the part in this defense....and you guys don't want to pay him?

Just who do you want to pay?


No. Trade him. We only have five picks in the 2021 draft.

We don't need Williams and his cap hit.
Having a great year  
ron mexico : 10/19/2020 2:31 pm : link
Play has been impressive. An asset in both run and pass defense
RE: i don't understand this  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 2:33 pm : link
In comment 15014707 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
we have a guy who is playing really well, a young interior DL who looks the part in this defense....and you guys don't want to pay him?

Just who do you want to pay?


Couple of posters indicated it above. Better to invest monies in players with complementary skills along the Dline/Front 7 versus just overlapping with run-stopping DTs. Think Edge, pass rushers, speed.
He's pretty much the same player  
mittenedman : 10/19/2020 2:34 pm : link
he's always been, which is a pretty damn good player.

High intensity & disruptive.

Too much was made of the zero sacks last year. As if he never got a sack.

He had 17.5 sacks from the interior BEFORE he joined the Giants. Not bad, especially on a 34 D.
RE: i don't understand this  
GMen72 : 10/19/2020 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15014707 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
we have a guy who is playing really well, a young interior DL who looks the part in this defense....and you guys don't want to pay him?

Just who do you want to pay?


You absolutely don't pay him the money he'll command with a 2nd tag or longterm deal. Herald McCoy and Arron Donald are the type of interior DL that should get that type of money. See the difference?
RE: RE: Playing well  
giants#1 : 10/19/2020 2:36 pm : link
In comment 15014655 jlukes said:
Quote:
In comment 15014652 JonC said:


Quote:


but I reserve that premium level of open market dollars for the Edge, especially when they're doing ok finding 3-4/4-3 DL with some level of scheme flexibility.

Hard to get behind rolling out a plus DL with no Edge talent behind it. Paying LW and/or Tomlinson doesn't resolve it, Dexter will be for his second deal before you know it. Something's got to change at a foundational/design level of both the football vision and the cap allocation.



At this point I'd give Williams money before Tomlinson and Dexter. Lawrence has been very disappointing this year, but maybe it is just because how we are using him isn't setting him up for flashy plays?


Would you pay LW $17M per over giving DT $10M per? I like LW, but I think the latter would have a better chance to outperform his deal even if the AAV comes in a little higher. Though I am a little leery that DT might benefit substantially from the attention LW and DL draw.
GMen  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 2:40 pm : link
Leonard Williams isn't getting Aaron Donald money. He's not even coming close to that.
RE: RE: Gettleman haters  
Justlurking : 10/19/2020 2:40 pm : link
In comment 15014543 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
In comment 15014537 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


Will underplay this pickup even if he was the best defender in the NFL... lol.

It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.




Eventhough he’s playing really well it’s still a dumb trade


Agreed. Hopefully they can trade him at the deadline and get some draft capital back.
In typical BBI fashion  
Dnew15 : 10/19/2020 2:40 pm : link
most are interested in trading LW for a 1st rd pick in next year's draft

OR

signing him to a below market deal

Neither of which is going to happen.
Our cap is in a good spot  
ryanmkeane : 10/19/2020 2:43 pm : link
we can go after an edge rusher if the market dictates it, as well as sign Williams. We aren't just going to not spend money forever.
those interested in trading LW  
giants#1 : 10/19/2020 2:44 pm : link
what do you want (expect) in return?
RE: Our cap is in a good spot  
Dnew15 : 10/19/2020 2:51 pm : link
In comment 15014754 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
we can go after an edge rusher if the market dictates it, as well as sign Williams. We aren't just going to not spend money forever.


This is actually a GREAT question.

I've been saying this for a couple of weeks.

If the GM is DG he's got to double down on some 'his' guys.

Peppers gets signed, LW becomes one of the highest paid DL in the game, DJ is still going to be the QB, maybe a long-term deal starts to get worked out SB, they'll pass on the T from Oregon (I would guess), they'll pass on Lawerence (I would guess), etc...

If not - DG actually leaves this franchise in a GREAT spot to rebuild. There aren't a ton of bad contracts, overpriced vets, and some young players that can be developed.

DG will have left this GM job in way better shape than he got it.
RE: In typical BBI fashion  
LBH15 : 10/19/2020 2:53 pm : link
In comment 15014746 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
most are interested in trading LW for a 1st rd pick in next year's draft

OR

signing him to a below market deal

Neither of which is going to happen.


Actually I agree, neither of those is reasonable.

But he should still be traded for highest and best offer.
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