He's having the best season in his career, by far.
he's on about the same pace as his 2016 season (which was his lone pro bowl year).
he is a solid player and if they can get him back on a FMV contract I'd do it. If not hopefully they recoup the pick. Or they can tag him again, though this year I think I'd be willing to risk the transition tag instead of the franchise tag with the flat cap.
Williams and Lawrence make a very formidable interior
and he's deep enough into his career to say he's not a game changer. Good player but overpaid compared to his production.
Define gamechanger. He's not a contender for DPOY but he's also not paid anywhere near that level of player at his position (Donald and Buckner specifically).
Will underplay this pickup even if he was the best defender in the NFL... lol.
It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.
Will underplay this pickup even if he was the best defender in the NFL... lol.
It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.
Eventhough he’s playing really well it’s still a dumb trade
plenty of season left to go, but a lot of posters here spent the last half of 2019 calling for DG to be fired solely based on the Williams trade alone.
and it's not a coincidence that Tomlinson has played his best ball since the LW acquisition. His salary isn't that big of a deal, he's probably a little overpaid but despite what many believe, he's not getting paid like an elite pass rusher. If he was in that category, he'd be getting >$20M per (easy). And his ability to disrupt the pocket would be even more evident with an elite ER.
That said, trading for him was dumb and a waste of assets. DG would've been better off waiting until the offseason and giving him a 5 yr/$75M deal.
plenty of season left to go, but a lot of posters here spent the last half of 2019 calling for DG to be fired solely based on the Williams trade alone.
So what? Would you rather they create a lengthy list of reasons for you to go thru instead to come to the same conclusion? It won't be difficult.
Not all hot takes are wrong in sentiment, just the words they choose.
He's having the best season in his career, by far.
he's on about the same pace as his 2016 season (which was his lone pro bowl year).
he is a solid player and if they can get him back on a FMV contract I'd do it. If not hopefully they recoup the pick. Or they can tag him again, though this year I think I'd be willing to risk the transition tag instead of the franchise tag with the flat cap.
Tagging him again pushes his cap number north of $20 million.
Will underplay this pickup even if he was the best defender in the NFL... lol.
It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.
Unfortunately we probably lost out playing hard ball with him. He's going to sign a deal in the 18-20 million range assuming what the cap looks like moving forward (a lot of uncertainty there as far as revenues)
Ironically, there is a large contingent of people here that would have went ape shit if he signed a 15 million a year contract. He is certainly worth that, and he'd have more sacks under his belt if we had any semblance of an edge pass rush.
LW looks like a nice piece to the defense, and is young.
If they were to sign him, and front load the contract, who do they risk losing? What young players on the GMEN needing to lock up long term?
I think enough teams have a handle on the cap that truly good players don't shake loose that often. If he were to be replaced through FA, who do you find that offers more value at a better price tag?
Way he was rushing off the edge. We don’t use him in that way often but it made him more effective as a pass rusher. I was surprised how good he looked rushing standing up.
RE: Kinda wish we got him on that 15 million a year contract now.
one of the issues with the trade was that DG gave Williams immediately had all of the leverage in any negotiation. His agent knew all along DG was going to franchise him.
but I reserve that premium level of open market dollars for the Edge, especially when they're doing ok finding 3-4/4-3 DL with some level of scheme flexibility.
Hard to get behind rolling out a plus DL with no Edge talent behind it. Paying LW and/or Tomlinson doesn't resolve it, Dexter will be for his second deal before you know it. Something's got to change at a foundational/design level of both the football vision and the cap allocation.
but I reserve that premium level of open market dollars for the Edge, especially when they're doing ok finding 3-4/4-3 DL with some level of scheme flexibility.
Hard to get behind rolling out a plus DL with no Edge talent behind it. Paying LW and/or Tomlinson doesn't resolve it, Dexter will be for his second deal before you know it. Something's got to change at a foundational/design level of both the football vision and the cap allocation.
At this point I'd give Williams money before Tomlinson and Dexter. Lawrence has been very disappointing this year, but maybe it is just because how we are using him isn't setting him up for flashy plays?
played well. As someone said, he'd be a lot more effective if we had some type of edge rush. But I still don't like the trade. He'll also likely want a huge contract in the offseason, more than we'll probably want to pay.
be skeptical of an inconsistent player who's playing for a contract. This is exactly the type of player the Giants will sign to a overpriced longterm deal and get no where near the ROI they should. Save the money and put it towards a legit pass rusher.
we have a guy who is playing really well, a young interior DL who looks the part in this defense....and you guys don't want to pay him?
Just who do you want to pay?
Couple of posters indicated it above. Better to invest monies in players with complementary skills along the Dline/Front 7 versus just overlapping with run-stopping DTs. Think Edge, pass rushers, speed.
we have a guy who is playing really well, a young interior DL who looks the part in this defense....and you guys don't want to pay him?
Just who do you want to pay?
You absolutely don't pay him the money he'll command with a 2nd tag or longterm deal. Herald McCoy and Arron Donald are the type of interior DL that should get that type of money. See the difference?
but I reserve that premium level of open market dollars for the Edge, especially when they're doing ok finding 3-4/4-3 DL with some level of scheme flexibility.
Hard to get behind rolling out a plus DL with no Edge talent behind it. Paying LW and/or Tomlinson doesn't resolve it, Dexter will be for his second deal before you know it. Something's got to change at a foundational/design level of both the football vision and the cap allocation.
At this point I'd give Williams money before Tomlinson and Dexter. Lawrence has been very disappointing this year, but maybe it is just because how we are using him isn't setting him up for flashy plays?
Would you pay LW $17M per over giving DT $10M per? I like LW, but I think the latter would have a better chance to outperform his deal even if the AAV comes in a little higher. Though I am a little leery that DT might benefit substantially from the attention LW and DL draw.
Will underplay this pickup even if he was the best defender in the NFL... lol.
It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.
Eventhough he’s playing really well it’s still a dumb trade
Agreed. Hopefully they can trade him at the deadline and get some draft capital back.
we can go after an edge rusher if the market dictates it, as well as sign Williams. We aren't just going to not spend money forever.
This is actually a GREAT question.
I've been saying this for a couple of weeks.
If the GM is DG he's got to double down on some 'his' guys.
Peppers gets signed, LW becomes one of the highest paid DL in the game, DJ is still going to be the QB, maybe a long-term deal starts to get worked out SB, they'll pass on the T from Oregon (I would guess), they'll pass on Lawerence (I would guess), etc...
If not - DG actually leaves this franchise in a GREAT spot to rebuild. There aren't a ton of bad contracts, overpriced vets, and some young players that can be developed.
DG will have left this GM job in way better shape than he got it.
he's on about the same pace as his 2016 season (which was his lone pro bowl year).
he is a solid player and if they can get him back on a FMV contract I'd do it. If not hopefully they recoup the pick. Or they can tag him again, though this year I think I'd be willing to risk the transition tag instead of the franchise tag with the flat cap.
Define gamechanger. He's not a contender for DPOY but he's also not paid anywhere near that level of player at his position (Donald and Buckner specifically).
Start working the phones.
It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.
It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.
Eventhough he’s playing really well it’s still a dumb trade
What is FMV for a player like him -
recent contracts for interior players indicate it is going to be 15-18M for him.
I am keeping him over Tomlinson
Especially since he was going to be a free agent anyway
That said, trading for him was dumb and a waste of assets. DG would've been better off waiting until the offseason and giving him a 5 yr/$75M deal.
So what? Would you rather they create a lengthy list of reasons for you to go thru instead to come to the same conclusion? It won't be difficult.
Not all hot takes are wrong in sentiment, just the words they choose.
Quote:
He's having the best season in his career, by far.
he's on about the same pace as his 2016 season (which was his lone pro bowl year).
he is a solid player and if they can get him back on a FMV contract I'd do it. If not hopefully they recoup the pick. Or they can tag him again, though this year I think I'd be willing to risk the transition tag instead of the franchise tag with the flat cap.
Tagging him again pushes his cap number north of $20 million.
But he isn't that guy offenses are going to gameplan around like Aaron Donald or the Bosa's.
It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.
Unfortunately we probably lost out playing hard ball with him. He's going to sign a deal in the 18-20 million range assuming what the cap looks like moving forward (a lot of uncertainty there as far as revenues)
Ironically, there is a large contingent of people here that would have went ape shit if he signed a 15 million a year contract. He is certainly worth that, and he'd have more sacks under his belt if we had any semblance of an edge pass rush.
The dumbass trade is now over. Moving forward if he helps us he helps us.
LW looks like a nice piece to the defense, and is young.
If they were to sign him, and front load the contract, who do they risk losing? What young players on the GMEN needing to lock up long term?
I think enough teams have a handle on the cap that truly good players don't shake loose that often. If he were to be replaced through FA, who do you find that offers more value at a better price tag?
one of the issues with the trade was that DG gave Williams immediately had all of the leverage in any negotiation. His agent knew all along DG was going to franchise him.
Who ever suggested that LW and his agent ever had that price in mind?
Hard to get behind rolling out a plus DL with no Edge talent behind it. Paying LW and/or Tomlinson doesn't resolve it, Dexter will be for his second deal before you know it. Something's got to change at a foundational/design level of both the football vision and the cap allocation.
Hard to get behind rolling out a plus DL with no Edge talent behind it. Paying LW and/or Tomlinson doesn't resolve it, Dexter will be for his second deal before you know it. Something's got to change at a foundational/design level of both the football vision and the cap allocation.
At this point I'd give Williams money before Tomlinson and Dexter. Lawrence has been very disappointing this year, but maybe it is just because how we are using him isn't setting him up for flashy plays?
Just who do you want to pay?
The trade was awful. And DG should be fired.
What's the incorrect piece?
Just who do you want to pay?
No. Trade him. We only have five picks in the 2021 draft.
We don't need Williams and his cap hit.
Just who do you want to pay?
Couple of posters indicated it above. Better to invest monies in players with complementary skills along the Dline/Front 7 versus just overlapping with run-stopping DTs. Think Edge, pass rushers, speed.
High intensity & disruptive.
Too much was made of the zero sacks last year. As if he never got a sack.
He had 17.5 sacks from the interior BEFORE he joined the Giants. Not bad, especially on a 34 D.
Just who do you want to pay?
You absolutely don't pay him the money he'll command with a 2nd tag or longterm deal. Herald McCoy and Arron Donald are the type of interior DL that should get that type of money. See the difference?
Quote:
but I reserve that premium level of open market dollars for the Edge, especially when they're doing ok finding 3-4/4-3 DL with some level of scheme flexibility.
Hard to get behind rolling out a plus DL with no Edge talent behind it. Paying LW and/or Tomlinson doesn't resolve it, Dexter will be for his second deal before you know it. Something's got to change at a foundational/design level of both the football vision and the cap allocation.
At this point I'd give Williams money before Tomlinson and Dexter. Lawrence has been very disappointing this year, but maybe it is just because how we are using him isn't setting him up for flashy plays?
Would you pay LW $17M per over giving DT $10M per? I like LW, but I think the latter would have a better chance to outperform his deal even if the AAV comes in a little higher. Though I am a little leery that DT might benefit substantially from the attention LW and DL draw.
Quote:
Will underplay this pickup even if he was the best defender in the NFL... lol.
It's tough to judge what he should be making, probably around 13 mill a year would be best for us. But anyone being honest and actually watching the defense can see that this guy is a really good player. He's probably going to get at least 15 mill a year with a longer term contract.
Eventhough he’s playing really well it’s still a dumb trade
Agreed. Hopefully they can trade him at the deadline and get some draft capital back.
OR
signing him to a below market deal
Neither of which is going to happen.
This is actually a GREAT question.
I've been saying this for a couple of weeks.
If the GM is DG he's got to double down on some 'his' guys.
Peppers gets signed, LW becomes one of the highest paid DL in the game, DJ is still going to be the QB, maybe a long-term deal starts to get worked out SB, they'll pass on the T from Oregon (I would guess), they'll pass on Lawerence (I would guess), etc...
If not - DG actually leaves this franchise in a GREAT spot to rebuild. There aren't a ton of bad contracts, overpriced vets, and some young players that can be developed.
DG will have left this GM job in way better shape than he got it.
OR
signing him to a below market deal
Neither of which is going to happen.
Actually I agree, neither of those is reasonable.
But he should still be traded for highest and best offer.