stuff. Looked better in run game than pass blocking.
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
and athleticism are so evident on film. I think it's a mistake continuing to start Fleming at this point.
Not sure they will make a full swap yet but I expect they will start getting him more reps and he will raise the play of the overall group 1 way or another (either take a starting spot or force either of the other 2 to raise their games to hold him off). Good problem to have as long as they don't let him just ride the bench the rest of the year but I don't see that happening.
and athleticism are so evident on film. I think it's a mistake continuing to start Fleming at this point.
Not sure they will make a full swap yet but I expect they will start getting him more reps and he will raise the play of the overall group 1 way or another (either take a starting spot or force either of the other 2 to raise their games to hold him off). Good problem to have as long as they don't let him just ride the bench the rest of the year but I don't see that happening.
That's the beauty of having a HC who is not on the hot seat. Shurmur kept Gates on the bench last season when he should have been given starts at either C or RT but Shurmur felt more comfortable with the veterans and was trying to save his job rather than evaluating young players who were actually going to be on the team the following season.
Judge can deal with the growing pains of starting Peart, and hopefully Lemieux, before the season is over to get him(them) better prepared for next season. Imagine how much better Gates would have been had he started the final 5-7 games at center.
stuff. Looked better in run game than pass blocking.
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
I've noticed the same thing. Jones takes his 7 step drop, then takes two more steps back.
Square to the rusher? And I guess the left foot is what he is talking about - dropping to soon to the inside inside of staying toward the rusher?
Dropped his left foot too soon. I'm pretty sure you are supposed to engage there, push the rusher back, and then slide your feet back. Kind of luck playing basketball but you get to use your hands and hit.
stuff. Looked better in run game than pass blocking.
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
I've noticed the same thing. Jones takes his 7 step drop, then takes two more steps back.
Almost every QB in the league does this now. If anything we've had shorter drops because of our tackles.
there is a point where tackles believe the QB won't be so they can ride the rusher past where they think the QB won't be. Jones sometimes goes too far back. If he stayed put or stepped up, there would have been no pressure.
there is a point where tackles believe the QB won't be so they can ride the rusher past where they think the QB won't be. Jones sometimes goes too far back. If he stayed put or stepped up, there would have been no pressure.
I mean how do you know these things? Are you in the coaches room? All I know is I've noticed is that QBs are taking deep drops in football in 2020. Jones is drifting backwards when he senses pressure because he has no trust in his interior line. Who can blame him? However, they haven't been as bad as they were the first few weeks so hopefully he gets back to maneuvering the pocket. He drifted deep way too much against the Skins against phantom interior pressure.
stuff. Looked better in run game than pass blocking.
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
I pointed that out against Dallas but people were so hellbent on just blaming the OL. I thought Jones did a better job this week. Against Dallas he kept running backwards and that puts the OT in a no win situation.
stuff. Looked better in run game than pass blocking.
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
One thing Eric, Thomas got that kick in the ass from Judge I advocated last week. You can only suck for so long before you need to take a seat on the bench.
Square to the rusher? And I guess the left foot is what he is talking about - dropping to soon to the inside inside of staying toward the rusher?
When he says stay square he means keeping his shoulders parallel with the LoS. That is why having a good kick slide is important. You have to beat the defender to the spot. Once you open you hips like Peart was doing he will get murdered on inside moves. You can't recover.
Because I've watch football for 40 years. They call it a pocket for a reason. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that tackles ride pass rushers around that pocket and they expect the QB to not drift backwards like that.
As soon as a QB drifts backwards, he is at risk at running into the rusher that the tackle has blocked to that spot.
Because I've watch football for 40 years. They call it a pocket for a reason. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that tackles ride pass rushers around that pocket and they expect the QB to not drift backwards like that.
As soon as a QB drifts backwards, he is at risk at running into the rusher that the tackle has blocked to that spot.
Yes, the difference is that the distance they are supposed to ride them back is much further back then it was even five years ago. Thomas is blocking like he's still in college. I don't know who's fault that is, but I'm not going to pretend like I know. Watch the other teams in the leage, these mobile QBs are taking massive drops so when Tackles get beat on inside moves they have more room to maneuver to evade the hit.
We have no idea what the launch point is supposed to be in the pocket.
stuff. Looked better in run game than pass blocking.
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
That has happened once or twice, but really, Daniel Jones has also bailed Thomas out on many occasions, escaping the rush, and picking up yards with his legs.
I just have a hard time seeing Thomas stay at left tackle. Right now, he gets beat inside, outside, bulrushes, and he eases up on his backside blocks which drives me crazy and is completely unacceptable.
Because I've watch football for 40 years. They call it a pocket for a reason. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that tackles ride pass rushers around that pocket and they expect the QB to not drift backwards like that.
As soon as a QB drifts backwards, he is at risk at running into the rusher that the tackle has blocked to that spot.
Yes, the difference is that the distance they are supposed to ride them back is much further back then it was even five years ago. Thomas is blocking like he's still in college. I don't know who's fault that is, but I'm not going to pretend like I know. Watch the other teams in the leage, these mobile QBs are taking massive drops so when Tackles get beat on inside moves they have more room to maneuver to evade the hit.
We have no idea what the launch point is supposed to be in the pocket.
It's easy to tell because at the end of the drop there is a plant. He's not planting and working up. He's drifting back. At least he was in the Dallas game. He did it very often.
I don't think you are understanding this. No OT can be expected to be able to keep a pass rusher from reaching a QB who drifts back that far. It's not a "new thing" for pass pro to change up like that. There is no 9-step drop.
It is a normal move, and part of a solid T play, to push the
rusher around the back of the QB. Depending on the attack and angle of the rusher this could be the textbook play by the Tackle. If the QB is dropping too deep, then the T could be doing the right thing and the QB is basically moving right into the path of the block.
I don't think you are understanding this. No OT can be expected to be able to keep a pass rusher from reaching a QB who drifts back that far. It's not a "new thing" for pass pro to change up like that. There is no 9-step drop.
12 yards deep. 10-15 yards deep are where 5-7 drops are taking place from the line of scrimmage. I just don't think he's washing out guys far enough. They are getting leverage where they shouldn't because he isn't hitting guys and he's opening up way too early in an attempt to recover. It looks like he's doing a good job washing them out, but the depth isn't there. And yes I get it, DJ has been floating backwards under pressure with no need.
It's easy to tell because at the end of the drop there is a plant. He's not planting and working up. He's drifting back. At least he was in the Dallas game. He did it very often.
Yeah it was noticeable, I just figured it's because he has had so much pressure from the interior that he keeps looking for the rush and that has created a habit of drifting back.
I'm not an expert on line play by any means, but one thing I liked
that I saw with Peart compared to Thomas is that Peart looks like he engages with the defender much sooner when pass blocking. At the snap he takes his two steps back to try and square up with the defender and then engages with leverage.
Thomas always looks like he is trying to back pedal as much as possible, and then rather than being the one engaging, he tries to "catch" the defender with his arms close to his body. It is hard to explain but it just seems like Thomas is just trying to get in the way, rather than actively trying to move the guy in front of him. He just never looks like he is in a powerful position in pass protection.
I don't think you are understanding this. No OT can be expected to be able to keep a pass rusher from reaching a QB who drifts back that far. It's not a "new thing" for pass pro to change up like that. There is no 9-step drop.
There is a great example of this from last year's game in Chicago. Jones drops back too far and stays there. Left tackle has no chance, strip sack. It was the first time I thought we might be in real trouble with Jones as a prospect.
The classic result of putting a young QB behind a terrible offensive line. The inside pressure makes him start to drift and it becomes hard to break the habit I don't care how fearless the guy is the subconscious will take over.
Hmm, not sure that's a fair assessment of that play. He only drops 5-7 steps and Solder gets beat pretty fast by Mack, and with who is that Edwards? #97 pulling the stunt to the inside and blowing by Hernandez... it didn't really look like he had time or room to step up.
I don't think you are understanding this. No OT can be expected to be able to keep a pass rusher from reaching a QB who drifts back that far. It's not a "new thing" for pass pro to change up like that. There is no 9-step drop.
There is a great example of this from last year's game in Chicago. Jones drops back too far and stays there. Left tackle has no chance, strip sack. It was the first time I thought we might be in real trouble with Jones as a prospect.
I have not given up on Jones yet. It is too early. Year 2 in the same system is really big for a young QB. He was denied that. The fumbles are what give me pause. He is very accurate, has a much better arm than was advertised, tough as nails and is quite athletic. I think we should wait for his last 8 games this year to be fair.
Hmm, not sure that's a fair assessment of that play. He only drops 5-7 steps and Solder gets beat pretty fast by Mack, and with who is that Edwards? #97 pulling the stunt to the inside and blowing by Hernandez... it didn't really look like he had time or room to step up.
There might be better plays to illustrate that point. LoS his own 23, He is in shotgun caught the snap at the 18 and was hit at the 14. I looks like a standard 3 steps back and he was going to deliver the ball and was hit as he was bringing his arm back. I put that one on the OL.
I don't think you are understanding this. No OT can be expected to be able to keep a pass rusher from reaching a QB who drifts back that far. It's not a "new thing" for pass pro to change up like that. There is no 9-step drop.
There is a great example of this from last year's game in Chicago. Jones drops back too far and stays there. Left tackle has no chance, strip sack. It was the first time I thought we might be in real trouble with Jones as a prospect.
I have not given up on Jones yet. It is too early. Year 2 in the same system is really big for a young QB. He was denied that. The fumbles are what give me pause. He is very accurate, has a much better arm than was advertised, tough as nails and is quite athletic. I think we should wait for his last 8 games this year to be fair.
I agree with that Mr. Head. The fumbles and he is a hair late on his processing (and these problems go hand in hand) which is magnified by plays like the 2 red zone INTs VS. Pitt and WFT. Although the WFT was a bad call... lol that dude was OOB
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
Not sure they will make a full swap yet but I expect they will start getting him more reps and he will raise the play of the overall group 1 way or another (either take a starting spot or force either of the other 2 to raise their games to hold him off). Good problem to have as long as they don't let him just ride the bench the rest of the year but I don't see that happening.
Quote:
and athleticism are so evident on film. I think it's a mistake continuing to start Fleming at this point.
Not sure they will make a full swap yet but I expect they will start getting him more reps and he will raise the play of the overall group 1 way or another (either take a starting spot or force either of the other 2 to raise their games to hold him off). Good problem to have as long as they don't let him just ride the bench the rest of the year but I don't see that happening.
That's the beauty of having a HC who is not on the hot seat. Shurmur kept Gates on the bench last season when he should have been given starts at either C or RT but Shurmur felt more comfortable with the veterans and was trying to save his job rather than evaluating young players who were actually going to be on the team the following season.
Judge can deal with the growing pains of starting Peart, and hopefully Lemieux, before the season is over to get him(them) better prepared for next season. Imagine how much better Gates would have been had he started the final 5-7 games at center.
the way i was always taught was when you look between your legs you see the qb..., so basically ataying square between defemskve player and qb
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
I've noticed the same thing. Jones takes his 7 step drop, then takes two more steps back.
Quote:
Square to the rusher? And I guess the left foot is what he is talking about - dropping to soon to the inside inside of staying toward the rusher?
the way i was always taught was when you look between your legs you see the qb..., so basically ataying square between defemskve player and qb
That is what I thought it meant, so is that not what Peart did? Was he not keeping the QB at his back. Maybe a tad nit picky.
But Peart is super long. Could not believe his arms are that long.
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In comment 15015036 section125 said:
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Square to the rusher? And I guess the left foot is what he is talking about - dropping to soon to the inside inside of staying toward the rusher?
the way i was always taught was when you look between your legs you see the qb..., so basically ataying square between defemskve player and qb
That is what I thought it meant, so is that not what Peart did? Was he not keeping the QB at his back. Maybe a tad nit picky.
But Peart is super long. Could not believe his arms are that long.
Look like he turned his hips to quick
Dropped his left foot too soon. I'm pretty sure you are supposed to engage there, push the rusher back, and then slide your feet back. Kind of luck playing basketball but you get to use your hands and hit.
Quote:
stuff. Looked better in run game than pass blocking.
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
I've noticed the same thing. Jones takes his 7 step drop, then takes two more steps back.
Almost every QB in the league does this now. If anything we've had shorter drops because of our tackles.
I mean how do you know these things? Are you in the coaches room? All I know is I've noticed is that QBs are taking deep drops in football in 2020. Jones is drifting backwards when he senses pressure because he has no trust in his interior line. Who can blame him? However, they haven't been as bad as they were the first few weeks so hopefully he gets back to maneuvering the pocket. He drifted deep way too much against the Skins against phantom interior pressure.
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
I pointed that out against Dallas but people were so hellbent on just blaming the OL. I thought Jones did a better job this week. Against Dallas he kept running backwards and that puts the OT in a no win situation.
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
One thing Eric, Thomas got that kick in the ass from Judge I advocated last week. You can only suck for so long before you need to take a seat on the bench.
When he says stay square he means keeping his shoulders parallel with the LoS. That is why having a good kick slide is important. You have to beat the defender to the spot. Once you open you hips like Peart was doing he will get murdered on inside moves. You can't recover.
As soon as a QB drifts backwards, he is at risk at running into the rusher that the tackle has blocked to that spot.
As soon as a QB drifts backwards, he is at risk at running into the rusher that the tackle has blocked to that spot.
Yes, the difference is that the distance they are supposed to ride them back is much further back then it was even five years ago. Thomas is blocking like he's still in college. I don't know who's fault that is, but I'm not going to pretend like I know. Watch the other teams in the leage, these mobile QBs are taking massive drops so when Tackles get beat on inside moves they have more room to maneuver to evade the hit.
We have no idea what the launch point is supposed to be in the pocket.
One thing Andrew Thomas has gotten unfairly blamed for are some pass pressures where Daniel Jones drifted too far back. Tackles don't expect QBs to drift backwards. That could be due to real or anticipated pressure coming up the middle, but I've noticed it other games.
That has happened once or twice, but really, Daniel Jones has also bailed Thomas out on many occasions, escaping the rush, and picking up yards with his legs.
I just have a hard time seeing Thomas stay at left tackle. Right now, he gets beat inside, outside, bulrushes, and he eases up on his backside blocks which drives me crazy and is completely unacceptable.
Quote:
Because I've watch football for 40 years. They call it a pocket for a reason. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that tackles ride pass rushers around that pocket and they expect the QB to not drift backwards like that.
As soon as a QB drifts backwards, he is at risk at running into the rusher that the tackle has blocked to that spot.
Yes, the difference is that the distance they are supposed to ride them back is much further back then it was even five years ago. Thomas is blocking like he's still in college. I don't know who's fault that is, but I'm not going to pretend like I know. Watch the other teams in the leage, these mobile QBs are taking massive drops so when Tackles get beat on inside moves they have more room to maneuver to evade the hit.
We have no idea what the launch point is supposed to be in the pocket.
It's easy to tell because at the end of the drop there is a plant. He's not planting and working up. He's drifting back. At least he was in the Dallas game. He did it very often.
12 yards deep. 10-15 yards deep are where 5-7 drops are taking place from the line of scrimmage. I just don't think he's washing out guys far enough. They are getting leverage where they shouldn't because he isn't hitting guys and he's opening up way too early in an attempt to recover. It looks like he's doing a good job washing them out, but the depth isn't there. And yes I get it, DJ has been floating backwards under pressure with no need.
Is it a wingspan difference or just a difference in upper body strength? Tryna figure this one out
It's easy to tell because at the end of the drop there is a plant. He's not planting and working up. He's drifting back. At least he was in the Dallas game. He did it very often.
Yeah it was noticeable, I just figured it's because he has had so much pressure from the interior that he keeps looking for the rush and that has created a habit of drifting back.
Thomas always looks like he is trying to back pedal as much as possible, and then rather than being the one engaging, he tries to "catch" the defender with his arms close to his body. It is hard to explain but it just seems like Thomas is just trying to get in the way, rather than actively trying to move the guy in front of him. He just never looks like he is in a powerful position in pass protection.
There is a great example of this from last year's game in Chicago. Jones drops back too far and stays there. Left tackle has no chance, strip sack. It was the first time I thought we might be in real trouble with Jones as a prospect.
Link - ( New Window )
Hmm, not sure that's a fair assessment of that play. He only drops 5-7 steps and Solder gets beat pretty fast by Mack, and with who is that Edwards? #97 pulling the stunt to the inside and blowing by Hernandez... it didn't really look like he had time or room to step up.
Quote:
I don't think you are understanding this. No OT can be expected to be able to keep a pass rusher from reaching a QB who drifts back that far. It's not a "new thing" for pass pro to change up like that. There is no 9-step drop.
There is a great example of this from last year's game in Chicago. Jones drops back too far and stays there. Left tackle has no chance, strip sack. It was the first time I thought we might be in real trouble with Jones as a prospect.
Quote:
. Link - ( New Window )
Hmm, not sure that's a fair assessment of that play. He only drops 5-7 steps and Solder gets beat pretty fast by Mack, and with who is that Edwards? #97 pulling the stunt to the inside and blowing by Hernandez... it didn't really look like he had time or room to step up.
Quote:
In comment 15015130 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I don't think you are understanding this. No OT can be expected to be able to keep a pass rusher from reaching a QB who drifts back that far. It's not a "new thing" for pass pro to change up like that. There is no 9-step drop.
There is a great example of this from last year's game in Chicago. Jones drops back too far and stays there. Left tackle has no chance, strip sack. It was the first time I thought we might be in real trouble with Jones as a prospect.
I have not given up on Jones yet. It is too early. Year 2 in the same system is really big for a young QB. He was denied that. The fumbles are what give me pause. He is very accurate, has a much better arm than was advertised, tough as nails and is quite athletic. I think we should wait for his last 8 games this year to be fair.
I agree with that Mr. Head. The fumbles and he is a hair late on his processing (and these problems go hand in hand) which is magnified by plays like the 2 red zone INTs VS. Pitt and WFT. Although the WFT was a bad call... lol that dude was OOB