Another fine thought-piece from GBN Draft Report, Colin Lindsay.
One line in particular caught my eye: "Nothing more frustrating than watching the Giants defense give up conversion after conversion..."
And why all the third down conversions? Mr. Lindsay points a finger at our Defensive Coordinator, Patrick Graham.
I don't. The real reason is that we have zero legitimate pass rushers. Zero. That would explain Kyle Allen's gaudy 74% completion rate.
And to think we could once trot out Justin Tuck, Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Mathias Kiwanuka, and a little later on Jason-Pierre Paul.
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1- I think the Giants offense played its best early with Peart at LT. I would love to see Thomas on the right side and kick Flemming to backup status.
2- The Giants need to be more consistent in offensive attack mentality. In the 4th quarter we once again switched to a passing only attack when the game was tied. No reason to do that. We worked best when we threatened the run but that goes away once Lewis is on the field. We did the same thing against Dallas the week before. We are not good enough to go to this package as our receivers are below average, Oline is average (at best) and Lewis is a shell of his past self. Stay with your grouping that provides most versatility in attack options.
3- I struggle to understand why we back off attacking on defense. When Dalton came in last week we should have blitzed their beat up oline and gone after the less mobile QB. This past week, we again called off the dogs.. Need to stop doing that..
It would help the defense a lot if the offense could stay on the field a little more to give the Defense a breather.
The Giants seem to like dropping into zones and keeping everything in front of them on 3rd downs with a pocket-contain rush - not exactly a novel concept but a game strategy they've stuck with for several years. They are not blitz-happy. The one time they noticeably deviated from that was the 1st time Spags was here. (His 2nd stint here was lots of soft zone.)
In Graham's case, he knows he doesn't have any NFL quality Edge Rushers. So his best chance is dropping 8 into coverage, forcing a throw into a tighter window and flying to the ball for a quick tackle. "Arrows through snow" as Spags used to say.
Simms they weren't doing anything with the ball and all those plays though. Sure, it tires out the D a little bit, but you have to score to win. Most D's will gladly let you go horizontally down the field 3 yards at a time.
There are a legit 7-8 qb’s in the NFL right now, who are not middling or mediocre. This is a 32 team league, you cannot invalidate this defense because they don’t play those guys every week. There will be 14 teams in the playoffs.
Dak was also one of those guys and he damn sure wasn’t embarrassing us.
I agree with your other points, 3rd down conversions are about pass rush and making plays on the ball. Bradberry is the only guy back there who can play the ball. And LWill is our best pass rusher. All we can do at this point is try to force 3rd and long.
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We’re lucky that we won that game too. They had the ball 7 more minutes then us and like 26 more plays! I saw a lot of zone break downs, crossing patterns and slants being converted away from defenders. As good as the Defense has been at times, they are still not good on third downs. In fact they are the worst in the league at allowing conversions. Pass rush would help, but coverage on third downs has also been abysmal. Holmes went out, IIRC and so the slot was covered by Ryan and Love at Safety. Love is very slow to react and gets to the play too late. I do not like Zone on shorter yardage 3rd Downs. Have to press and stick to the man so as not to allow those short conversions. It’s ok on the longer 3rd Downs where you can keep the receiver in front of you before the sticks. Anyway, IMO, think it’s currently a combination of scheme, talent and fundamentals, that are causing this. What amazes me is that we’re pretty good in most other Defensive categories.
Simms they weren't doing anything with the ball and all those plays though. Sure, it tires out the D a little bit, but you have to score to win. Most D's will gladly let you go horizontally down the field 3 yards at a time.
Understand, but when you’re D is giving up 3rd down conversions at an alarming rate, it leaves no time for your inept offense to make those long drives to score. It reduces their opportunities to drive the field with less time available. Defense has to do much better getting off the field on 3rd Downs. I think the WFT punted once the whole game!
They absolutely don't work as a unit on the DLine. And too often just try to just push thru an OL with brute strength versus bypass him to the QB with better hand/feet coordination and quicker first step. Also the D-Coord is going to have to free up somebody from playing zone on third down and allow that LB, S or whomever to come after a scrambling QB and at least pressure the throw somewhat. Its not like our guys are knocking down too many passes in zone anyway.
Wentz is a slippery pain-in-the-ass so they are going to have to mix things up for him, and force him into errors which he has shown to be making this year at a good clip.
Pardon me please if I am misunderstanding. Are you suggesting the Giants ownership tells coaches how to call their defense?
If you do not mind, would you explain why you believe this to be the case?
- part of that on O and D is to stay with purely vanilla game plans. (Throw in a trick play occasionally to keep it fun)
- movement of multiskilled players across positions to find the best fit and combinations
- getting UDFs on the field earlier than many teams would
- "if you're dressed, you're gonna play" (like I did with my Little League teams)
- churn on the PS
Hey, that was the best I could come up with!
I would change think they were going to score to know they were going to score. At least they stopped the 2 point conversion. Otherwise we all know they would lose in OT, or at best tie.
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Spread sets any QB worth their salt will make them pay. Of course we are so bad it would probably be worth it to throw in their on 2nd and 3rd down occasionally
If you do not mind, would you explain why you believe this to be the case?
With four viable targets out in the passing game, bringing zone blitzes opens up large holes underneath. QBs with half a brain recognize these right away. Some teams used to drop dline to steal a pick, but you really don't see it anymore.
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In comment 15015529 Zeke's Alibi said:
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Spread sets any QB worth their salt will make them pay. Of course we are so bad it would probably be worth it to throw in their on 2nd and 3rd down occasionally
If you do not mind, would you explain why you believe this to be the case?
With four viable targets out in the passing game, bringing zone blitzes opens up large holes underneath. QBs with half a brain recognize these right away. Some teams used to drop dline to steal a pick, but you really don't see it anymore.
Thanks for the response
There was one blitz by their safety where he went in and sacked Dalton unimpeded. Thre were additional sacks and pressures by using blitz's effectively.
The Giants D calls were mystifying against Dalton in that they seemed to be playing a prevent defense on that final drive.
There should be at least four strategic blitz's by Peppers against Wentz Thursday. You have this tiger in the tank athlete....unleash him!!!
There was one blitz by their safety where he went in and sacked Dalton unimpeded. Thre were additional sacks and pressures by using blitz's effectively.
The Giants D calls were mystifying against Dalton in that they seemed to be playing a prevent defense on that final drive.
There should be at least four strategic blitz's by Peppers against Wentz Thursday. You have this tiger in the tank athlete....unleash him!!!
That has always been the case with the blitz, know when and how to employ it. Zone blitz can still be an effective part of a strategy if used properly and consider the qb and OL you are trying to fool.
Zeke proclaimed the zone blitz isn't used as much because of the presence of the spread, not that it can't still be effective. I am not able to verify by numbers which is why I asked for reasons behind his belief. His reasons seemed reasonable to me
Look, I am just talking here. Fact is they have to try and mix things up because 3rd down is quickly becoming the down I check my texts and emails because I know the drive is continuing. :-)
Look, I am just talking here. Fact is they have to try and mix things up because 3rd down is quickly becoming the down I check my texts and emails because I know the drive is continuing. :-)
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I lol'd, youre right. They have to do something to get to the QB and I think Graham has been doing that more and more as he figures out what he has. Carter got hurt and he seemed to be someone Graham was using. Now maybe its Fackrell and Logan from the secondary. I think Peppers would be decent there too but maybe too predictable (as in he sucks in coverage so you play him to blitz and throw at him if he drops into coverage.)?