I love Saquan as a person and he is exciting to watch. The comp people use for him is Barry Sanders. I was never a Barry Sanders fan. My favorite backs growing up were Earl Campbell and Walter Payton. My style preference is different. I think Barry was an all time great.
I can't help but have watched Freeman for the last few weeks and not think this team is better served by a back that takes the first crease with authority and goes 3, 3, 3, 4, 11, 2, 3, 7, 15, 3 ect. DJ and the OL needs more 2nd and 6 than the threat of the back going for 6 on any given play.
We lost our undisputed best player and we look no different at all. You could make the argument that we look better. I think you can forever place me in the camp that believes you should NEVER draft a running back high in the first now.
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In comment 15015800 crick n NC said:
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Sure why rookie deals that have yet to expire and reap damage upon the franchise have already been decided to be a detriment to the future franchise.
The bigger issue is not getting anything out of the second round pick in the draft.
We don't agree on that view Terps. I think Barkley has been a fantastic player individually which is how I tend to judge players. Get enough good individual players and you tend to build a good unit.
Two things on that:
1. I'm not sure Barkley is actually a fantastic player.
2. I come back to what Judge said: "We're not collecting talent, we're building a team."
Investing heavily at running back has been shown repeatedly as a poor way to build a team in the modern era.
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In comment 15015808 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15015800 crick n NC said:
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Sure why rookie deals that have yet to expire and reap damage upon the franchise have already been decided to be a detriment to the future franchise.
The bigger issue is not getting anything out of the second round pick in the draft.
That is a good way of saying it.
What did picking Barkley do for the NY Giants?
What EXACTLY did we get out of it?
With the full benefit of hindsight, it wasn't enough.
I am not going down the subjective road of evaluating every other possible choice.
I don't care.
The second pick in the draft is precious.
What positive results would any second pick in the draft yield to the Giants in their state?
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right back at you chief. Your next good post will be your first.
I am so glad you're here man to serve as the post police to see if passes muster with your high standards of what is considered a "good" post. I guess we can continue the excuse making and cheerleading for 2 over-drafted win nothings.
I've been plenty critical, I guess I don't post it 50x per thread for you to notice. You made the ridiculous post in the first place, not me. Don't start deflecting, just own it.
[quote] no different?? We still haven't gotten D's to respect the run by loading the box like they did for Saquon. We still don't have that 1 or 2 plays a game Saquon would give that were explosive.
Defenses are allowed to play us straight up, settle in a Cover 2, and play single coverage on WR's who can't get separation, even on intermediate routes.
Teams loaded the box not only to stop the run but because Barkley couldn’t pass block so teams could send 6 guys on every play so Giants couldn’t run or pass.
Yup, and that has shown itself to be a big mistake considering Mostert has proven to be better than the rest of the expensive stable.
And besides, the star there is Shanahan.
Want to see something funny? In 2018:
Barkley: 91 receptions, 721 yards, 7.9/catch
Kyle Jusczyk: 30 receptions, 324 yards, 10.8/catch
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In comment 15015808 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15015800 crick n NC said:
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Sure why rookie deals that have yet to expire and reap damage upon the franchise have already been decided to be a detriment to the future franchise.
The bigger issue is not getting anything out of the second round pick in the draft.
We don't agree on that view Terps. I think Barkley has been a fantastic player individually which is how I tend to judge players. Get enough good individual players and you tend to build a good unit.
Two things on that:
1. I'm not sure Barkley is actually a fantastic player.
2. I come back to what Judge said: "We're not collecting talent, we're building a team."
Investing heavily at running back has been shown repeatedly as a poor way to build a team in the modern era.
Terps, I didn't use the word "talented", I used the word "good". Let me explain what I mean by that (non snark). Good in the way I expressed it means good fit for what you want to do as a unot, a player who may be talented, but understands their role, and values team over "me". This player puts in work to understand the scheme and their job and produces on the field in respect to their job.
I also understand the POV that taking a RB in today's NFL isn't a good use of resources. Where I think you and I disconnect is that I don't believe that to be a hard and fast rule and can understand an exception for a player immensely talented. Now, if don't believe Barkley is that player, certainly that is fine and I can respect that.
I would say, judging by your posts you are more likely to look for reasons to abandon a plan to prevent further damage and I understand that and believe there is value there. If I am mistaken on this view, I apologize. I am more likely to look for reasons to stick with a plan to prevent a waste of resources. Each has their value and downsides. Ideally, people with those different views can balance one another if they are willing to accept POV's from a different kind of thinking.
What EXACTLY did we get out of it?
Marketing and more sales (Saquon merchandise).
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What EXACTLY did we get out of it?
Marketing and more sales (Saquon merchandise).
A swing and a miss.
Which makes me believe that will be a HUGE reason why Mara re-signs SB. The other revenue streams...
The hot takes that make zero fucking sense abound here.
The hot takes that make zero fucking sense abound here.
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In comment 15015783 UConn4523 said:
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right back at you chief. Your next good post will be your first.
I am so glad you're here man to serve as the post police to see if passes muster with your high standards of what is considered a "good" post. I guess we can continue the excuse making and cheerleading for 2 over-drafted win nothings.
I've been plenty critical, I guess I don't post it 50x per thread for you to notice. You made the ridiculous post in the first place, not me. Don't start deflecting, just own it.
I did not intend to deflect on anything. I am owning every word of it. Saquan is too much of a pussy to play in the NFL. It really boils down to that.
Derrick Henry probably runs into more stacked boxes than any RB, and look at his results.
And yeah, our OL sucks compared to the Titans. But its more of an indictment of DG for drafting a luxury generational rb before fixing the OL.
Debate the better takes then. Plenty above.
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need anymore evidence that the hot takes here are fucking ludicrous?
Debate the better takes then. Plenty above.
Thanks for the advice, Googs. Are you itching that badly to add something that you can't take your own fucking advice?
Well was kamara a receiving back in college? Backs like e names were drafted to play like that. It would be kind of weird for the best running back in college to reinvent himself now.
Not to mention money. Freeman was only 3mil.
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In comment 15015911 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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need anymore evidence that the hot takes here are fucking ludicrous?
Debate the better takes then. Plenty above.
Thanks for the advice, Googs. Are you itching that badly to add something that you can't take your own fucking advice?
Not googs as discussed.
But just trying to get you to calm down on some of these threads. Cursing at posters all over the place like a lunatic. Thought you were taking the earlier advice to heart but it didn't last more than a day I guess.
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need anymore evidence that the hot takes here are fucking ludicrous?
Debate the better takes then. Plenty above.
Crick and 'thehead' ae doing superb. Its a pleasure to read their posts. The other ones I could do without.
This team HAsnt won a lot of games the last few years and bellichek isn’t calling you for your opinion any tiime soon
What I am, is tired of a shitty product on Sunday. I don't need to blame anyone. I not saying people should be fired today. I'm just done. People here do have some bad takes, not just bad. Small and unnecessarily petty. I have defended the Barkley pick until now because...I like him...as a person. I do think he is a very good player, not an obstacle to winning.
I think he was the wrong position at the wrong time. I also do prefer a RB that gets North South in more of a hurry. The big plays are really exciting. I would like more second and 6 and less 2nd and 10. I don't hate the guy and I don't think DG was a douche for drafting him. I think in hindsight, we should have gone another way in that spot.
KDavies - agree, and I think a lot of fans are frustrated that Giants are not using SB differently. Shurmur clearly did not. Can't tell yet with Judge but that first Pittsburgh game he had a fair amount of targets.
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why the rush to jettison Barkley? Why not use him like the Saints use Kamara for example?
Well was kamara a receiving back in college? Backs like e names were drafted to play like that. It would be kind of weird for the best running back in college to reinvent himself now.
Not to mention money. Freeman was only 3mil.
Barkley had 54 receptions his junior year in college. Kamara had 40. Kamara runs the ball and is a capable receiver, as is Barkley.
You missed the point entirely. Saints have always had a more straight ahead runner to complement Kamara, whether it be Ingram or now Murray. Giants have failed in that department. My hope is that Freeman stays on, and both backs can complement each other, as Kamara and Ingram/Murray do.
As for money, Barkley/Kamara will command higher dollars. Saints got Murray off the scrap heap, and let Ingram go when his price got too high. Giants got Freeman off the scrap heap as well. The talent and playmaking ability of Barkley/Kamara are far rarer, and thus will command a premium
Kinda weird though that I can't remember ever seeing Kamara make a big play running, always receiving out of the back field.
Kamara has run the ball 587 times in the regular season and playoffs...he has 301 receptions
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I can't remember seeing Kamara ever run the ball. But that having both would be OK w me ....you can always rotate running backs.
Kinda weird though that I can't remember ever seeing Kamara make a big play running, always receiving out of the back field.
He averages 4.9 yards a carry in his regular season career. He had 22 rushing TDs his first two years in the league. His career long is a 74 yard run.
A guy who is a poor runner between the tackles and can't pass block vs a guy who runs with power and can block the blitzers is a big contrast.
IMO Barkley is a flawed talent. A very low batting average HR hitter. His "gifts" don't mean much in the NFL as an every down move the chains 4 minute offense back. He is the anti Derrick Henry.
All of us who hated the pick the minute it was made were right and we were right for the reasons we said on draft day. RBs are a dime a dozen in the NFL. You can find them in any round or even undrafted and they have short primes because they get hurt.
Freeman isn't coming close to Barkley's production and our running game is one of the worst in the league.
How is that trying to be spun into the argument that Freeman is as effective as Barkley? He's averaging 3.2 YPC and we have exactly 2TD's from RB's this season.
Saying Freeman is as effective as Barkley or that he's a better fit over and over again doesn't make it true.
Freeman isn't coming close to Barkley's production and our running game is one of the worst in the league.
How is that trying to be spun into the argument that Freeman is as effective as Barkley? He's averaging 3.2 YPC and we have exactly 2TD's from RB's this season.
Saying Freeman is as effective as Barkley or that he's a better fit over and over again doesn't make it true.
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awful lot of back patting on this thread. And what exactly is it for??
Freeman isn't coming close to Barkley's production and our running game is one of the worst in the league.
How is that trying to be spun into the argument that Freeman is as effective as Barkley? He's averaging 3.2 YPC and we have exactly 2TD's from RB's this season.
Saying Freeman is as effective as Barkley or that he's a better fit over and over again doesn't make it true.
We shall see. I like what I see so far. More touches will yield more insight.
More touches? The past two games he has had 17 and 18 rushes. 60 and 61 yards. As far as players gotten off the scrap heap like this, he has been solid. But I'm not about to supplant a talent like Barkley for him.
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awful lot of back patting on this thread. And what exactly is it for??
Freeman isn't coming close to Barkley's production and our running game is one of the worst in the league.
How is that trying to be spun into the argument that Freeman is as effective as Barkley? He's averaging 3.2 YPC and we have exactly 2TD's from RB's this season.
Saying Freeman is as effective as Barkley or that he's a better fit over and over again doesn't make it true.
We shall see. I like what I see so far. More touches will yield more insight.
So you actually are trying to say that Freeman is as effective as Barkley??
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I can't remember seeing Kamara ever run the ball. But that having both would be OK w me ....you can always rotate running backs.
Kinda weird though that I can't remember ever seeing Kamara make a big play running, always receiving out of the back field.
I guess you missed his 49 yard TD run against the Giants in 2018. His 3rd rushing TD of that game.
I think this is the most significant thing. I like Freeman's quick to the hole style. But I also think if Barkley were running, not only would he hit the holes, but he would have broken 1 or 2 of them.
I think the line is run blocking much much better amd our backs are getting a head of steam and are asked to only beat ome guy.
Jones will be a pro bowler is this. Meanwhile he looks worse than the bottom of the barrel teams back-up QBs.
If the oline improves than Saquon.
NO IT WON'T! There is nothing to say that Saqioun will come back as be as effective as Freeman. Freeman and Gallman can you give 100 yards a game. That is all that is required. Now we can work on replacing this QB and getting pass rushers.
Barkley just does not fit the NFL format of getting 10 yards within 4 downs to get another first down and move the sticks. He doesn't Barkley is guy who swings for the fence every at bat but ends up with a .100 batting average by striking out too many times.
And nerd boy you stole my idea of talking about money. Freeman cost this team a mere 3 mil. How much is saquon going to want.
Also you cannot look at Freeman by himself . It is obvious Gallman Jr is gong to get a lot of touches too.
Shouldn't you go read up on how Alvin Kamara has one of the highest YPC in football since he was drafted? After a post like that I question ever single thing you say, its all garbage.
Do you watch the fucking games? He got zero touches last week.
But then again - you are the same astute football fan that thinks Kamara is only a pass catcher.
Do you watch any games??