that thinks Marcus Golden is useless. i was happy to see him tip that pass, but thats about all he's got. that guy cannot get to the QB and never requires a double team.
I'd like to see the O Line look like this by the end of the year.
Peart, Hernandez, Gates, Lemieux, Thomas
Its only a matter of time that Lemieux replaces Ziegler, and Flemming gets benched.
for the first time is a long time we have legit building blocks at key positions. DT with Lawrence/Tomlinson/Williams. An elite corner in Bradberry. Hopefully 2 solid (if not better) OTs, still TBD. A very solid MLB in Martinez.
Obviously the question marks are still there at many other positions, specifically QB, EDGE, WR, S etc but its a start!
that thinks Marcus Golden is useless. i was happy to see him tip that pass, but thats about all he's got. that guy cannot get to the QB and never requires a double team.
I'd like to see the O Line look like this by the end of the year.
Peart, Hernandez, Gates, Lemieux, Thomas
Its only a matter of time that Lemieux replaces Ziegler, and Flemming gets benched.
3 Rookies on an OL, with 2 at OT, seems like a VERY dangerous proposition....but then again, I guess things cant really get much worse. Or could they?
And the tackle positions, economically, are very expensive. If they can get away with quality play with these guys on a rookie deal while their QB is on a rookie deal, watch out in free agency in the coming year or two or three.
Man the Solder opt out really is gonna sting next season when we have that huge cap hit.
that thinks Marcus Golden is useless. i was happy to see him tip that pass, but thats about all he's got. that guy cannot get to the QB and never requires a double team.
I'd like to see the O Line look like this by the end of the year.
Peart, Hernandez, Gates, Lemieux, Thomas
Its only a matter of time that Lemieux replaces Ziegler, and Flemming gets benched.
the irony of it all. 5 promising OL starters picked by Gettleman the Incompetent :-)
With all the screaming on BBI about Thomas, I refer people to your draft review of Thomas saying that the team and fans will need patience with him while he cleans up his technique deficiencies. Thomas has not had a weak opponent yet. I agree this is not Flowers. Kid owned up to his mistake and said it will not happen again....I believe him. He does not moan, whine or hide.
I like how Judge is blending in the young oline as the season progresses. I suspect once Peart is situated on the line somewhere, Lemieux will start to be introduced at one or both guard positions.
My world for just one more competent WR.
Appreciate your weekly reviews and I sense that for the first time in a long time you sense a light at the end of the tunnel that is not a freight train - it may merely be just the loom, but it is there.
There has been a lot made on here in the past couple of days about Thomas and Peart. I am glad to hear that you liked what you saw in Peart, and are not particularly troubled by what you have seen from Thomas. If they truly both turn out to be reliable starters, the team is set at two very important positions.
I am a big critic of Gettleman and will continue to be, but I do have to give him props on this year's class of free agents. Bradberry, Martinez and Fackrel have all been good additions. However, there are still way too many misses on this roster over the past few years.
I am hoping your take on the tackles is correct and hoping I can be patient this year when they regress during certain games. Do you think we se Lemieux in anytime soon? As you said, your review of Zeitler had been consistent and I am not all that impressed with Hernandez considering its his 3rd year. When do they see what they have in Shane?
that thinks Marcus Golden is useless. i was happy to see him tip that pass, but thats about all he's got. that guy cannot get to the QB and never requires a double team.
I'd like to see the O Line look like this by the end of the year.
Peart, Hernandez, Gates, Lemieux, Thomas
Its only a matter of time that Lemieux replaces Ziegler, and Flemming gets benched.
3 Rookies on an OL, with 2 at OT, seems like a VERY dangerous proposition....but then again, I guess things cant really get much worse. Or could they?
if Soldier didnt opt out we could have had Thomas and Peart getting experience on the right side but we're at where we are at.
but not a fan of the timid defensive play calling, and punting the ball on 4th and 2 from the Washington 37 yard line. When the the game has been on the line with a lead both last week and at Dallas the week before, it's either 3 or 4 man rushes, every play - how did that work? Yet the play that got the go ahead score at the 4 minute mark was a blitz. I'm not sure what they look at during the next few days that would lead them to think if we're up one score Thursday night late "hey, lets play coverage"..............
Adding four solid veteran players to the defense ...
... in Martinez, Fackrell, Bradberry, and Ryan, plus an infusion of young linebackers, has me feeling optimistic that the arrow is pointing up.
But we won’t know until we see how they perform via Philly, which has an absurd number of injured players all across their offense. Let’s see what Graham can put together ...
Crowder is a great compliment to Martinez because of his speed
I always read your reviews to confirm or deny what I think I have seen in each game/player. I agree that we have the best LB talent we have had in years and some of our DB talent is very promising. I think if we could just muster up a better pass rush it would take much of the pressure off the the LB's and DB's in coverage. We give qb's way too much time to look at their #2 and #3 options. On the offensive side, a true #1 WR and better depth at the position would do DJ a world of good. I would roll him out a little more as well since he has no real pocket to step up into.
but not a fan of the timid defensive play calling, and punting the ball on 4th and 2 from the Washington 37 yard line. When the the game has been on the line with a lead both last week and at Dallas the week before, it's either 3 or 4 man rushes, every play - how did that work? Yet the play that got the go ahead score at the 4 minute mark was a blitz. I'm not sure what they look at during the next few days that would lead them to think if we're up one score Thursday night late "hey, lets play coverage"..............
Yet if the Giants go for it on 4th-and-2 and don't make it, do they win the game?
I am hoping your take on the tackles is correct and hoping I can be patient this year when they regress during certain games. Do you think we se Lemieux in anytime soon? As you said, your review of Zeitler had been consistent and I am not all that impressed with Hernandez considering its his 3rd year. When do they see what they have in Shane?
Hernandez isn't going anywhere. They won't pull him out of the lineup. He hasn't been bad...he's just simply in the "is what it is" category. It could be much worse than him.
but not a fan of the timid defensive play calling, and punting the ball on 4th and 2 from the Washington 37 yard line. When the the game has been on the line with a lead both last week and at Dallas the week before, it's either 3 or 4 man rushes, every play - how did that work? Yet the play that got the go ahead score at the 4 minute mark was a blitz. I'm not sure what they look at during the next few days that would lead them to think if we're up one score Thursday night late "hey, lets play coverage"..............
Yet if the Giants go for it on 4th-and-2 and don't make it, do they win the game?
Good point but I agree with the Riverboat Ron 'take' in that situation. We beat the skins by playing conservatively and not taking that chance of not making a 4th and 2. I don't think we are winning this division even with this win. And I believe the consensus on here is that this is a building and learning year. If you make the 4th and 2 you are also giving your D a little more time and less time for them to score. I am NOT going to make it a 'fire judge' call, just a preference that I'd like a HC to make.
for it, but the main difference for good football teams and bad ones? Coaching and QB play.
Majority of GMs have a similar success rate when it comes to finding talent. Gettleman is no worse or better than some teams that are in the playoffs a good amount of times.
It's up to the coaches to get the very best out of these guys, and the QB to be able to lead the team to wins. And it would seem that Judge's staff is already worlds ahead of what we are used to. Perfect example is Matt Peart - would you have trusted him to even sniff the playing field with the prior staff as a rookie? And play well? Would the prior staff bench Andrew Thomas early on for the meeting issue? Would Crowder be playing? Would Gates be playing center? Would they have benched Downs pretty much immediately after it was apparent he sucked?
I'm guessing the answer is no to all of these questions.
for it, but the main difference for good football teams and bad ones? Coaching and QB play.
Majority of GMs have a similar success rate when it comes to finding talent. Gettleman is no worse or better than some teams that are in the playoffs a good amount of times.
It's up to the coaches to get the very best out of these guys, and the QB to be able to lead the team to wins. And it would seem that Judge's staff is already worlds ahead of what we are used to. Perfect example is Matt Peart - would you have trusted him to even sniff the playing field with the prior staff as a rookie? And play well? Would the prior staff bench Andrew Thomas early on for the meeting issue? Would Crowder be playing? Would Gates be playing center? Would they have benched Downs pretty much immediately after it was apparent he sucked?
I'm guessing the answer is no to all of these questions.
My memory is longer than yours. I vividly remember posters saying, "McAdoo is a breath of fresh air, Coughlin would never have done that." Then I remember people on BBI saying "Shurmur is different. McAdoo never would have done that."
If the Giants keep losing, the fans will turn on Judge too. (We're already seeing that via proxy...Jason Garrett).
The two most popular targets for fans are always the head coach and the quarterback. It's been that way as long as I can remember.
i tend to agree BUT - a few things are different. #1 - The changing out of guys (rookies mainly) getting reps early in games. That really hasn't happened before has it? Guys getting benched pretty much immediately (Downs, Love, Yiadom) for poor play. I mean, we let Flowers start every game at LT for 3 seasons before the coaches realized he sucked. We started Bobby Hart forever. He was terrible. I'm interested to see what the coaching staff does with Fleming. He has been below average (not horrible) but it would appear that Peart might be a better option than him.
I agree that the "fresh air" thing is sometimes what we always say, but I'm talking about in game decisions, and roster decisions. Not necessarily X's and O's.
I don't recall anyone saying that Shurmur was different. He was essentially horrible at everything, right out of the gate. We started out 1-7 in 2018, a lot of those losses due to poor coaching decisions. He was terrible, and got worse as it went along.
it's incredibly obvious that the team is better prepared from the outset, and the game plans are just better, with Joe Judge as a head coach vs Pat Shurmur. The game was over in the 1st quarter more often than not when it came to Shurmur.
i tend to agree BUT - a few things are different. #1 - The changing out of guys (rookies mainly) getting reps early in games. That really hasn't happened before has it? Guys getting benched pretty much immediately (Downs, Love, Yiadom) for poor play. I mean, we let Flowers start every game at LT for 3 seasons before the coaches realized he sucked. We started Bobby Hart forever. He was terrible. I'm interested to see what the coaching staff does with Fleming. He has been below average (not horrible) but it would appear that Peart might be a better option than him.
Perhaps this coach is able to operate from a different standpoint; No HoF QB cemented in place, a mandate from ownership to change what needs to be changed and not under a 2 year timeframe to get us to the superbowl? I think he's trying those players out because he can, which I agree is refreshing and because they seem to be decent. If they sucked as well we'd be even more pissed.
I don't recall anyone saying that Shurmur was different. He was essentially horrible at everything, right out of the gate. We started out 1-7 in 2018, a lot of those losses due to poor coaching decisions. He was terrible, and got worse as it went along.
They did. Shurmur was very popular on BBI when we made the switch.
i tend to agree BUT - a few things are different. #1 - The changing out of guys (rookies mainly) getting reps early in games. That really hasn't happened before has it? Guys getting benched pretty much immediately (Downs, Love, Yiadom) for poor play. I mean, we let Flowers start every game at LT for 3 seasons before the coaches realized he sucked. We started Bobby Hart forever. He was terrible. I'm interested to see what the coaching staff does with Fleming. He has been below average (not horrible) but it would appear that Peart might be a better option than him.
I agree that the "fresh air" thing is sometimes what we always say, but I'm talking about in game decisions, and roster decisions. Not necessarily X's and O's.
Oh short-term memory... we had tons of posts about how Coughlin would never play rookies, but look McAdoo will!!!
Oh short-term memory... we had tons of posts about how Coughlin would never play rookies, but look McAdoo will!!!
I don't remember that...but even if it were true, my point still stands that McAdoo kept them in the lineup even though they were dreadful. Judge isn't doing that.
think it's not any different. To me it's clear with Judge with the kind of program he wants to run. He just benched Andrew Thomas, and Peppers already came out today saying it was a message to the team, nobody is above the rules. Nobody gets to play just because they were drafted high.
That's the difference I'm talking about. McAdoo had zero control over the team and zero clue how to manage the roster. Shurmur - he was respected - but he was a horrific head coach with preparation and game management.
I am going to allow myself to feel good after reading that
there are pieces here. Give things a little time and maybe we see more questions turn into answers. I really think the D is on to something finally. it still needs talent, but there are legit pieces in place and some of those pieces are hard to find. I really really really hope McKinney can come back soon and get a lot of reps. We need that kind of player so badly and a cheap cost controlled stud back there would do wonders. We'd only really need more athleticism on the edge.
Need to see another good week run blocking from this OL. Keep it up.
Oh short-term memory... we had tons of posts about how Coughlin would never play rookies, but look McAdoo will!!!
I don't remember that...but even if it were true, my point still stands that McAdoo kept them in the lineup even though they were dreadful. Judge isn't doing that.
Absolutely people swore TC would never play rookies. Constant din.....
we've got our coach, time to find some more players
I am so happy with how he has handled some of the younger players I almost forgot how important that quality is. The fact that Judge found a way to get Peart in the lineup and even benched Thomas at the same time, I love it. I know Thomas wasn't benched for his play but just the fact that this change in the lineup occurred for any reason, I love Judge's attitude with players. No one is safe. And he's going to coach every single detail and if you don't show aptitude you're fucking out.
I finally trust the coaching here to truly determine a player's worth. This is so huge in regards to Jones. If Judge trusts Jones, I trust him too. He won't stick with a QB due to draft status.
Judge's game feel seems to be on point too but that's another topic for another day.
yes, a clear example of that is Crowder. Look, he ultimately might not be an answer for us, but he's sure as hell better than Downs. He was the last pick of the draft and is getting time for us already because he's shown to be better than anyone else on the roster at that position - which goes to my earlier point about Shurmur and McAdoo not doing that.
We had absolute horseshit at OT for all of those years in a row and we just kept trotting out the same guys. We had terrible linebacker play, we kept starting them.
Such a weird game. If you told me that in the first half the Giants would have an INT in Washington territory, that Washington would miss a chip shot field goal and that Jones would have a 49 yard run I'd think the Giants would have more than a 3 point lead.
Similarly, Washington did not punt until the third period, and only punted once in the game. They had 5 drives of over 10 plays, Giants had 1. They had 24 1st downs to the Giants 16. They held the Giants to only 240 yards and outgained them by almost 100 yards.
Big defensive plays by the Giants at crucial times was the story here.
Such a weird game. If you told me that in the first half the Giants would have an INT in Washington territory, that Washington would miss a chip shot field goal and that Jones would have a 49 yard run I'd think the Giants would have more than a 3 point lead.
Similarly, Washington did not punt until the third period, and only punted once in the game. They had 5 drives of over 10 plays, Giants had 1. They had 24 1st downs to the Giants 16. They held the Giants to only 240 yards and outgained them by almost 100 yards.
Big defensive plays by the Giants at crucial times was the story here.
for it, but the main difference for good football teams and bad ones? Coaching and QB play.
Majority of GMs have a similar success rate when it comes to finding talent. Gettleman is no worse or better than some teams that are in the playoffs a good amount of times.
It's up to the coaches to get the very best out of these guys, and the QB to be able to lead the team to wins. And it would seem that Judge's staff is already worlds ahead of what we are used to. Perfect example is Matt Peart - would you have trusted him to even sniff the playing field with the prior staff as a rookie? And play well? Would the prior staff bench Andrew Thomas early on for the meeting issue? Would Crowder be playing? Would Gates be playing center? Would they have benched Downs pretty much immediately after it was apparent he sucked?
I'm guessing the answer is no to all of these questions.
I couldn't agree more with this. It's why people like you and I are so dug in here on DG. I simply don't hold GMs to the same standard, or same line of thinking that I apply to HCs and even QBs. Unless the GM is swinging and missing so often you can't ignore it, I can't just immediately go there. It's not a stubborn take on my part or me just wanting to be right about DG. I just don't think it makes that much of a difference, if that's the right wording to use. Sure the Gm is important, but condemning or defending the GM based on the win manifestation from that GM's tenure is not always that cut n dried a debate. that plus we're pretty much 2 years in...
yes, a clear example of that is Crowder. Look, he ultimately might not be an answer for us, but he's sure as hell better than Downs. He was the last pick of the draft and is getting time for us already because he's shown to be better than anyone else on the roster at that position - which goes to my earlier point about Shurmur and McAdoo not doing that.
We had absolute horseshit at OT for all of those years in a row and we just kept trotting out the same guys. We had terrible linebacker play, we kept starting them.
We also could be drafting better. Ill go as far to say we are drafting better. We are adding 3rd and 4th and 5th rounders that actually contribute now. Nearly every year under DG. Go ahead and call me out. We never even trotted out a guy like Connelly, who played well for 2 games, under Reese (post 2011) let alone a guy like Slayton. And even the guys who have flashed for barely 10 minutes like Crowder, Peart and Gates---nope not even then.
The team appears to be better coached or at least is being run with a better eye for development, and the team is drafting better than they did in the mid 2010s. We need to do a lot better than that, but it's a start.
I'm talking about once the football starts being played, not when the hire happened.
With all due respect, you are not remembering this correctly. The Giants were 11-5 in McAdoo's first year and most of BBI was singing his praises.
The thing is McaDoo coached well with what he was given. Problem is, when you don't have an elite defense, an offense of ball control and letting your best player make a play isn't an offense to rely on. Winning masked the stink of how poor an offensive coordinator he actually was.
It was also a breath of fresh air and obvioius fools gold
I don't recall anyone saying that Shurmur was different. He was essentially horrible at everything, right out of the gate. We started out 1-7 in 2018, a lot of those losses due to poor coaching decisions. He was terrible, and got worse as it went along.
They did. Shurmur was very popular on BBI when we made the switch.
Shurmur was only popular because McAdoo was hated at that point. I felt very milque toast about him as a hire.
How many people were actually singing his praises outside the usual bizarely optimistic suspects like Milton.
RE: Adding four solid veteran players to the defense ...
... in Martinez, Fackrell, Bradberry, and Ryan, plus an infusion of young linebackers, has me feeling optimistic that the arrow is pointing up.
But we won’t know until we see how they perform via Philly, which has an absurd number of injured players all across their offense. Let’s see what Graham can put together ...
Due to the Philly injuries, I think we have a shot with Shepard coming back. This assumes Slayton and Shepard can both be effective.
This is also a game where I'd love for us to figure out how we can get Engram's speed to work for him. He doesn't have the "first step" cut (poor route runner) explosion needed to create quick separation; however, he does have pure speed.
I honestly believe that while we lack top end talent we do have a shot to win this game Thursday night and then we have a lot of time off to prepare for the Bucs as well as (drum roll...) have the coaches work out the system kinks and coach up players.
i'm not necessarily dug in on DG, I just think a lot of posters who automatically assume that we will start making better draft picks and better free agency signings once DG is gone, are completely and utterly clueless as to how drafting and FA works.
I made a point a few weeks ago about how the 49ers drafts really don't look all that much better than the Giants in recent years. I got laughed at. The difference? They've had Kyle Shanahan for 4 years now. They bought in. They took their lumps for 3-4 seasons and it still isn't perfect, but they've created a foundation.
Gettleman has been the GM for 3 offseasons (including draft and free agency periods) and for my money, people are really pissed because of 2018. The 2019 and 2020 decisions appear to be pointing up. Obviously he hasn't hit on every draft pick since then. The Baker decision backfired - but we found franchise type guys in the 2019 draft if Jones can prove he's the guy, there's still plenty of time to figure that out. Lawrence and Slayton are two other very good picks. 2020 - the free agency moves and draft picks appear to be solid. But, again, it's early. If McKinney turns out to be a good player it could be a home run draft, but we won't know until 1-2 years from now anyway. Bradberry might have been one of the best signings in all of football. Martinez was a great signing. Fackrell has been showing that he can play.
2018 - they tried to put lipstick on a pig and it failed miserably - maybe that was part of the reason they hired Shurmur, I'm not sure. But it didn't work, at all. But - it's not a reason to just fire a GM. It's not like DG spent 100M dollars on players to try and make the Super Bowl. They made 1 huge signing (Solder) and it didn't workout, the rest of the signings were veterans who just didn't have it anymore unfortunately, the money wasn't a huge issue. But the FA signings that year were bad, no question about it. But that was 1 season, it was 1 year. It set us back a year. People act like DG's decisions are all somehow from the same season. 2019, they (somewhat) hit the reset button, drafted a QB, didn't really touch the cap, let some contracts die out, and then 2020 they were ready to spend some money, hire a new coach, and get going on this team.
Unfortunately, some posters will never forgive DG for not restarting everything in 2018, and now they can't see the plan unfolding because they are still somehow extremely pissed off for keeping Eli and making some bad moves early on.
Mac - seemed like a good game planner. Didn't seem like he couldn't handle the players - the big personalities. Certainly could not handle adversity and challenging situations.
Shurmur - Such a nice guy. Clearly the players loved him. Seemed to be able to handle the players and obviously he can run an offense. Overall job seemed too big for him.
Judge - So easy to root for. A genuinely great person, which is so surprising since he comes from Philly. As a coach he's not perfect - he needs experience and maybe some head-coach maturity. But he seems to be starting from a great spot and absolutely looks like he should grow into the job and become one of the greats. Assembled an all-star coaching staff. Now the teams needs to equip him with a better than average roster even if that means completely overhauling the scouting dept.
I was disappointed that Mac and more so that Shurmur didn't work out. I will be crushed if Judge doesn't work out.
correctly, Washington took over around their 18 yard line - if we miss a fourth and 2 at the 37 yard line and gain 20 yards on a punt with 7 minutes to go in the third may cost us the game? I'm not following that logic.
To me that's poor coaching in that instance and sends the wrong message to the team, but that's just my opinion. Usually the more aggressive teams are more successful long term.
is that DG can scout college players, he can draft good college players. He can find guys in the mid rounds and UDFA. Both from his time in Carolina and with NYG. His drafts haven't been perfect though, it's been a mixed bag for sure, the key will be if he drafted the right QB in Jones, and if he did, he will be remembered for that. He was involved with hiring one of the worst coaches in the history of the NFL, which is part of the reason we were terrible in 2018 and 2019.
the punting decision, while it might not have been popular, ended up working out. The Giants got the ball back (I think after Washington might have gotten one first down?)
Our WRs are horrific and an injured DS is super scary for DJ. Hopefully SS & DS can come in together as Tate looks done.
Thanks- as always - for the insightful review!
I'd like to see the O Line look like this by the end of the year.
Peart, Hernandez, Gates, Lemieux, Thomas
Its only a matter of time that Lemieux replaces Ziegler, and Flemming gets benched.
Obviously the question marks are still there at many other positions, specifically QB, EDGE, WR, S etc but its a start!
Nice review Sy. Thank You.
I'd like to see the O Line look like this by the end of the year.
Peart, Hernandez, Gates, Lemieux, Thomas
Its only a matter of time that Lemieux replaces Ziegler, and Flemming gets benched.
3 Rookies on an OL, with 2 at OT, seems like a VERY dangerous proposition....but then again, I guess things cant really get much worse. Or could they?
Man the Solder opt out really is gonna sting next season when we have that huge cap hit.
I'd like to see the O Line look like this by the end of the year.
Peart, Hernandez, Gates, Lemieux, Thomas
Its only a matter of time that Lemieux replaces Ziegler, and Flemming gets benched.
the irony of it all. 5 promising OL starters picked by Gettleman the Incompetent :-)
With all the screaming on BBI about Thomas, I refer people to your draft review of Thomas saying that the team and fans will need patience with him while he cleans up his technique deficiencies. Thomas has not had a weak opponent yet. I agree this is not Flowers. Kid owned up to his mistake and said it will not happen again....I believe him. He does not moan, whine or hide.
I like how Judge is blending in the young oline as the season progresses. I suspect once Peart is situated on the line somewhere, Lemieux will start to be introduced at one or both guard positions.
My world for just one more competent WR.
Appreciate your weekly reviews and I sense that for the first time in a long time you sense a light at the end of the tunnel that is not a freight train - it may merely be just the loom, but it is there.
I am a big critic of Gettleman and will continue to be, but I do have to give him props on this year's class of free agents. Bradberry, Martinez and Fackrel have all been good additions. However, there are still way too many misses on this roster over the past few years.
Quote:
that thinks Marcus Golden is useless. i was happy to see him tip that pass, but thats about all he's got. that guy cannot get to the QB and never requires a double team.
I'd like to see the O Line look like this by the end of the year.
Peart, Hernandez, Gates, Lemieux, Thomas
Its only a matter of time that Lemieux replaces Ziegler, and Flemming gets benched.
3 Rookies on an OL, with 2 at OT, seems like a VERY dangerous proposition....but then again, I guess things cant really get much worse. Or could they?
if Soldier didnt opt out we could have had Thomas and Peart getting experience on the right side but we're at where we are at.
But we won’t know until we see how they perform via Philly, which has an absurd number of injured players all across their offense. Let’s see what Graham can put together ...
The fumble Brown got a good rush on the outside forcing thr step up right into Fackrell..
Yet if the Giants go for it on 4th-and-2 and don't make it, do they win the game?
Hernandez isn't going anywhere. They won't pull him out of the lineup. He hasn't been bad...he's just simply in the "is what it is" category. It could be much worse than him.
Quote:
but not a fan of the timid defensive play calling, and punting the ball on 4th and 2 from the Washington 37 yard line. When the the game has been on the line with a lead both last week and at Dallas the week before, it's either 3 or 4 man rushes, every play - how did that work? Yet the play that got the go ahead score at the 4 minute mark was a blitz. I'm not sure what they look at during the next few days that would lead them to think if we're up one score Thursday night late "hey, lets play coverage"..............
Yet if the Giants go for it on 4th-and-2 and don't make it, do they win the game?
Good point but I agree with the Riverboat Ron 'take' in that situation. We beat the skins by playing conservatively and not taking that chance of not making a 4th and 2. I don't think we are winning this division even with this win. And I believe the consensus on here is that this is a building and learning year. If you make the 4th and 2 you are also giving your D a little more time and less time for them to score. I am NOT going to make it a 'fire judge' call, just a preference that I'd like a HC to make.
Majority of GMs have a similar success rate when it comes to finding talent. Gettleman is no worse or better than some teams that are in the playoffs a good amount of times.
It's up to the coaches to get the very best out of these guys, and the QB to be able to lead the team to wins. And it would seem that Judge's staff is already worlds ahead of what we are used to. Perfect example is Matt Peart - would you have trusted him to even sniff the playing field with the prior staff as a rookie? And play well? Would the prior staff bench Andrew Thomas early on for the meeting issue? Would Crowder be playing? Would Gates be playing center? Would they have benched Downs pretty much immediately after it was apparent he sucked?
I'm guessing the answer is no to all of these questions.
Majority of GMs have a similar success rate when it comes to finding talent. Gettleman is no worse or better than some teams that are in the playoffs a good amount of times.
It's up to the coaches to get the very best out of these guys, and the QB to be able to lead the team to wins. And it would seem that Judge's staff is already worlds ahead of what we are used to. Perfect example is Matt Peart - would you have trusted him to even sniff the playing field with the prior staff as a rookie? And play well? Would the prior staff bench Andrew Thomas early on for the meeting issue? Would Crowder be playing? Would Gates be playing center? Would they have benched Downs pretty much immediately after it was apparent he sucked?
I'm guessing the answer is no to all of these questions.
My memory is longer than yours. I vividly remember posters saying, "McAdoo is a breath of fresh air, Coughlin would never have done that." Then I remember people on BBI saying "Shurmur is different. McAdoo never would have done that."
If the Giants keep losing, the fans will turn on Judge too. (We're already seeing that via proxy...Jason Garrett).
The two most popular targets for fans are always the head coach and the quarterback. It's been that way as long as I can remember.
I agree that the "fresh air" thing is sometimes what we always say, but I'm talking about in game decisions, and roster decisions. Not necessarily X's and O's.
Perhaps this coach is able to operate from a different standpoint; No HoF QB cemented in place, a mandate from ownership to change what needs to be changed and not under a 2 year timeframe to get us to the superbowl? I think he's trying those players out because he can, which I agree is refreshing and because they seem to be decent. If they sucked as well we'd be even more pissed.
They did. Shurmur was very popular on BBI when we made the switch.
I agree that the "fresh air" thing is sometimes what we always say, but I'm talking about in game decisions, and roster decisions. Not necessarily X's and O's.
Oh short-term memory... we had tons of posts about how Coughlin would never play rookies, but look McAdoo will!!!
With all due respect, you are not remembering this correctly. The Giants were 11-5 in McAdoo's first year and most of BBI was singing his praises.
Oh short-term memory... we had tons of posts about how Coughlin would never play rookies, but look McAdoo will!!!
I don't remember that...but even if it were true, my point still stands that McAdoo kept them in the lineup even though they were dreadful. Judge isn't doing that.
That's the difference I'm talking about. McAdoo had zero control over the team and zero clue how to manage the roster. Shurmur - he was respected - but he was a horrific head coach with preparation and game management.
Need to see another good week run blocking from this OL. Keep it up.
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Oh short-term memory... we had tons of posts about how Coughlin would never play rookies, but look McAdoo will!!!
I don't remember that...but even if it were true, my point still stands that McAdoo kept them in the lineup even though they were dreadful. Judge isn't doing that.
Absolutely people swore TC would never play rookies. Constant din.....
I am so happy with how he has handled some of the younger players I almost forgot how important that quality is. The fact that Judge found a way to get Peart in the lineup and even benched Thomas at the same time, I love it. I know Thomas wasn't benched for his play but just the fact that this change in the lineup occurred for any reason, I love Judge's attitude with players. No one is safe. And he's going to coach every single detail and if you don't show aptitude you're fucking out.
I finally trust the coaching here to truly determine a player's worth. This is so huge in regards to Jones. If Judge trusts Jones, I trust him too. He won't stick with a QB due to draft status.
Judge's game feel seems to be on point too but that's another topic for another day.
We had absolute horseshit at OT for all of those years in a row and we just kept trotting out the same guys. We had terrible linebacker play, we kept starting them.
Similarly, Washington did not punt until the third period, and only punted once in the game. They had 5 drives of over 10 plays, Giants had 1. They had 24 1st downs to the Giants 16. They held the Giants to only 240 yards and outgained them by almost 100 yards.
Big defensive plays by the Giants at crucial times was the story here.
Similarly, Washington did not punt until the third period, and only punted once in the game. They had 5 drives of over 10 plays, Giants had 1. They had 24 1st downs to the Giants 16. They held the Giants to only 240 yards and outgained them by almost 100 yards.
Big defensive plays by the Giants at crucial times was the story here.
Should have said "the Giants would get an INT.."
Majority of GMs have a similar success rate when it comes to finding talent. Gettleman is no worse or better than some teams that are in the playoffs a good amount of times.
It's up to the coaches to get the very best out of these guys, and the QB to be able to lead the team to wins. And it would seem that Judge's staff is already worlds ahead of what we are used to. Perfect example is Matt Peart - would you have trusted him to even sniff the playing field with the prior staff as a rookie? And play well? Would the prior staff bench Andrew Thomas early on for the meeting issue? Would Crowder be playing? Would Gates be playing center? Would they have benched Downs pretty much immediately after it was apparent he sucked?
I'm guessing the answer is no to all of these questions.
I couldn't agree more with this. It's why people like you and I are so dug in here on DG. I simply don't hold GMs to the same standard, or same line of thinking that I apply to HCs and even QBs. Unless the GM is swinging and missing so often you can't ignore it, I can't just immediately go there. It's not a stubborn take on my part or me just wanting to be right about DG. I just don't think it makes that much of a difference, if that's the right wording to use. Sure the Gm is important, but condemning or defending the GM based on the win manifestation from that GM's tenure is not always that cut n dried a debate. that plus we're pretty much 2 years in...
We had absolute horseshit at OT for all of those years in a row and we just kept trotting out the same guys. We had terrible linebacker play, we kept starting them.
We also could be drafting better. Ill go as far to say we are drafting better. We are adding 3rd and 4th and 5th rounders that actually contribute now. Nearly every year under DG. Go ahead and call me out. We never even trotted out a guy like Connelly, who played well for 2 games, under Reese (post 2011) let alone a guy like Slayton. And even the guys who have flashed for barely 10 minutes like Crowder, Peart and Gates---nope not even then.
The team appears to be better coached or at least is being run with a better eye for development, and the team is drafting better than they did in the mid 2010s. We need to do a lot better than that, but it's a start.
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I'm talking about once the football starts being played, not when the hire happened.
With all due respect, you are not remembering this correctly. The Giants were 11-5 in McAdoo's first year and most of BBI was singing his praises.
The thing is McaDoo coached well with what he was given. Problem is, when you don't have an elite defense, an offense of ball control and letting your best player make a play isn't an offense to rely on. Winning masked the stink of how poor an offensive coordinator he actually was.
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I don't recall anyone saying that Shurmur was different. He was essentially horrible at everything, right out of the gate. We started out 1-7 in 2018, a lot of those losses due to poor coaching decisions. He was terrible, and got worse as it went along.
They did. Shurmur was very popular on BBI when we made the switch.
Shurmur was only popular because McAdoo was hated at that point. I felt very milque toast about him as a hire.
How many people were actually singing his praises outside the usual bizarely optimistic suspects like Milton.
But we won’t know until we see how they perform via Philly, which has an absurd number of injured players all across their offense. Let’s see what Graham can put together ...
This is also a game where I'd love for us to figure out how we can get Engram's speed to work for him. He doesn't have the "first step" cut (poor route runner) explosion needed to create quick separation; however, he does have pure speed.
I honestly believe that while we lack top end talent we do have a shot to win this game Thursday night and then we have a lot of time off to prepare for the Bucs as well as (drum roll...) have the coaches work out the system kinks and coach up players.
I made a point a few weeks ago about how the 49ers drafts really don't look all that much better than the Giants in recent years. I got laughed at. The difference? They've had Kyle Shanahan for 4 years now. They bought in. They took their lumps for 3-4 seasons and it still isn't perfect, but they've created a foundation.
Gettleman has been the GM for 3 offseasons (including draft and free agency periods) and for my money, people are really pissed because of 2018. The 2019 and 2020 decisions appear to be pointing up. Obviously he hasn't hit on every draft pick since then. The Baker decision backfired - but we found franchise type guys in the 2019 draft if Jones can prove he's the guy, there's still plenty of time to figure that out. Lawrence and Slayton are two other very good picks. 2020 - the free agency moves and draft picks appear to be solid. But, again, it's early. If McKinney turns out to be a good player it could be a home run draft, but we won't know until 1-2 years from now anyway. Bradberry might have been one of the best signings in all of football. Martinez was a great signing. Fackrell has been showing that he can play.
2018 - they tried to put lipstick on a pig and it failed miserably - maybe that was part of the reason they hired Shurmur, I'm not sure. But it didn't work, at all. But - it's not a reason to just fire a GM. It's not like DG spent 100M dollars on players to try and make the Super Bowl. They made 1 huge signing (Solder) and it didn't workout, the rest of the signings were veterans who just didn't have it anymore unfortunately, the money wasn't a huge issue. But the FA signings that year were bad, no question about it. But that was 1 season, it was 1 year. It set us back a year. People act like DG's decisions are all somehow from the same season. 2019, they (somewhat) hit the reset button, drafted a QB, didn't really touch the cap, let some contracts die out, and then 2020 they were ready to spend some money, hire a new coach, and get going on this team.
Unfortunately, some posters will never forgive DG for not restarting everything in 2018, and now they can't see the plan unfolding because they are still somehow extremely pissed off for keeping Eli and making some bad moves early on.
Shurmur - Such a nice guy. Clearly the players loved him. Seemed to be able to handle the players and obviously he can run an offense. Overall job seemed too big for him.
Judge - So easy to root for. A genuinely great person, which is so surprising since he comes from Philly. As a coach he's not perfect - he needs experience and maybe some head-coach maturity. But he seems to be starting from a great spot and absolutely looks like he should grow into the job and become one of the greats. Assembled an all-star coaching staff. Now the teams needs to equip him with a better than average roster even if that means completely overhauling the scouting dept.
I was disappointed that Mac and more so that Shurmur didn't work out. I will be crushed if Judge doesn't work out.
To me that's poor coaching in that instance and sends the wrong message to the team, but that's just my opinion. Usually the more aggressive teams are more successful long term.