Let's say we beat the Rams. How much of a chance did you give of us beating SF? We had lost to them in the regular season 34-24, but looking @ the stat line...we played them relatively tough. Simms didn't have a good game, throwing 3 picks.
That 49ers team is generally regarded as one of the better teams in modern memory.
I give the 9ers a slight edge being at home, but I think Parcells and Belichick would have schemed up something - again - to have us in it to the end. Plus, LT was still a real force that season...his last great season, really.
Unfortunately we got derailed by Everett to Flipper.
No kidding. They of the cutback block bullsh-t
Wasn't that the broken ankle? Walls dove at his legs and Taylor took the helmet off his ankle, but only missed one game?????
Looked it up, and the Niners were up 24-7 in the second. Giants tied it at 24 in the fourth before allowing a FG. Giants had the ball with a chance to drive and tie or win, but Simms threw a pick deep in his own territory and the Niners sealed it with a late gift TD a few plays later.
2) Our CB's were beat up and that could have been very tough.
3) Simms had a bad ankle too that hampered him a ton at the end of the season and against the Rams.
If Bavaro had not been hurt earlier in the season I think we would have rolled through the NFC!
Who got beat on the Flipper TD- Collins, Williams; or did one of the safeties Guyton or Kinard fail to help over the top? Genuinely can’t recall and interestingly we all refer to it as the Flipper TD rather than by the DB who gave it up.
Quote:
That damn Flipper Anderson TD derailed a great team. We were pretty evenly matched with those 49ers teams. We were the one team they did not want to play in the post season. Win or lose, we always gave them a Hell of a game and I expect 89 would have been no different.
Who got beat on the Flipper TD- Collins, Williams; or did one of the safeties Guyton or Kinard fail to help over the top? Genuinely can’t recall and interestingly we all refer to it as the Flipper TD rather than by the DB who gave it up.
I think most of us remember it for that bullshit pass interference call in OT more than anything else.
Quote:
In comment 15016437 Matt M. said:
Quote:
That damn Flipper Anderson TD derailed a great team. We were pretty evenly matched with those 49ers teams. We were the one team they did not want to play in the post season. Win or lose, we always gave them a Hell of a game and I expect 89 would have been no different.
Who got beat on the Flipper TD- Collins, Williams; or did one of the safeties Guyton or Kinard fail to help over the top? Genuinely can’t recall and interestingly we all refer to it as the Flipper TD rather than by the DB who gave it up.
I think most of us remember it for that bullshit pass interference call in OT more than anything else.
If you can stomach it, link below
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 15016645 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
In comment 15016437 Matt M. said:
Quote:
That damn Flipper Anderson TD derailed a great team. We were pretty evenly matched with those 49ers teams. We were the one team they did not want to play in the post season. Win or lose, we always gave them a Hell of a game and I expect 89 would have been no different.
Who got beat on the Flipper TD- Collins, Williams; or did one of the safeties Guyton or Kinard fail to help over the top? Genuinely can’t recall and interestingly we all refer to it as the Flipper TD rather than by the DB who gave it up.
I think most of us remember it for that bullshit pass interference call in OT more than anything else.
If you can stomach it, link below Link - ( New Window )
That fucking official was on the take. that shit STILL gets me heated. Straight up BULLSHIT call.
*the scumbag OL coach who was enabled by St. Bill Walsh to teach his OL how to injure players within the rules was Bob McKettrick. Howie Long called him out many times back then
*that Monday Night Niner game really turned on a ticky tack encroachment call on Reyna Thompson. The Niners had just missed a tie-breaking FG and RTs pinky nail was deemed to be over the LOS and they were given another shot. It was a bullshit call. No impact on the play.
*Parcells called that Rams loss his worst in game coaching ever. They left countless points on the field in the first half. They had no business even needing OT to win.
Yes, we could have beaten the Niners.
But...
It made the NFC Champ in SF the next season all the more special...
To shut up that SF team going for 3 in a row was GREAT!
As good as the '90 team was, it looked older than the '89 team including LT. '90 was really the last hurrah of the Parcells teams and they managed to get it done.
I agree with this. I have always wondered how much a team can age during a season. Toward the end of the 89 season, was the 89 team already more like the 90 team? To get significantly older only during an off-season doesn't make sense to me. Rather to me the aging took place more as the 89 season went on. Obviously, there isn't any way to prove this, just a thought.
'89 felt like the team was slowly aging and '90 it felt more apparent to me. They had enough to win it all but it was a bit of a surprise if you remember how little respect they got from the media and oddsmakers as the '90 playoffs began. I think Chris Berman picked the Bears to stomp the Giants. Fans were nervous with Simms down and the offense not showing much life at the end of the regular season. Parcells leaving when he did always confirmed for me the run was over. He knew they were running out of gas, and of course he wanted more control and compensation.
'89 felt like the team was slowly aging and '90 it felt more apparent to me. They had enough to win it all but it was a bit of a surprise if you remember how little respect they got from the media and oddsmakers as the '90 playoffs began. I think Chris Berman picked the Bears to stomp the Giants. Fans were nervous with Simms down and the offense not showing much life at the end of the regular season. Parcells leaving when he did always confirmed for me the run was over. He knew they were running out of gas, and of course he wanted more control and compensation.
I felt like the very last gasp was 1993. The Handley years were a waste.
They had less margin for error than the 1985-89 teams because they were older and not as deep.
Yup. Similar to how we pretty much owned Dallas and Washington in those years, but the Eagles had our number
Greene always had great games against us, it seemed.
Quote:
in terms of their collective ages and experience, but they just couldn't raise their level of play and not beat themselves in some crucial games. It's why I've always been annoyed at how the '88 team fell so short. '87 and the strike was a waste, '88 just couldn't get over the hump.
'89 felt like the team was slowly aging and '90 it felt more apparent to me. They had enough to win it all but it was a bit of a surprise if you remember how little respect they got from the media and oddsmakers as the '90 playoffs began. I think Chris Berman picked the Bears to stomp the Giants. Fans were nervous with Simms down and the offense not showing much life at the end of the regular season. Parcells leaving when he did always confirmed for me the run was over. He knew they were running out of gas, and of course he wanted more control and compensation.
I felt like the very last gasp was 1993. The Handley years were a waste.
By '93 they were a Reeves team, not of the Parcells era.
Didn't Slater give LT some problems? He was a great LT.
They were very good on both sides of the ball. Just looked over their some of their team stats. Both Rice and Taylor averaged 18+ ypc, combined for 2,400+ yards (Rice 1,400+, Taylor 1K+), and 27 combined TDs (Rice 17, Taylor 10).
Those are tremendous numbers for the era of football. And each averaging 18+ ypc is phenomenal.
I always thought Ronnie Lott was one of the best defensive players I ever saw. His ability to impact the game from safety was tremendous.
Quote:
but SF was better. If we play them 10 times we win maybe three games. No shame in that. They has an elite offense and defense. We had an elite defense and an ok offense.
They were very good on both sides of the ball. Just looked over their some of their team stats. Both Rice and Taylor averaged 18+ ypc, combined for 2,400+ yards (Rice 1,400+, Taylor 1K+), and 27 combined TDs (Rice 17, Taylor 10).
Those are tremendous numbers for the era of football. And each averaging 18+ ypc is phenomenal.
I always thought Ronnie Lott was one of the best defensive players I ever saw. His ability to impact the game from safety was tremendous.
Lott, tremendous range, awareness, knowledge and a desire to physically punish the opponent.
Quote:
It was baffling that they always played much better against SF than LA.
Didn't Slater give LT some problems? He was a great LT.
Irv Pankey was the guy. Slater was RT by then
The Flipper Anderson TD was so upsetting for a very good reason. That Giant team was PRIME. We all knew what a horrible opportunity had been blown.
Quote:
In comment 15016725 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
It was baffling that they always played much better against SF than LA.
Didn't Slater give LT some problems? He was a great LT.
Irv Pankey was the guy. Slater was RT by then
Ahhhh...that's it. Irv Pankey. Nice call.
We would have had the ball in plus position, momentum and been tied and needing just a FG to win.
It was a gut shot and gave home field to the Niners.
Still, we blew it by not beating the Rams.
Rams were emotionally spent after beating the Giants. And it showed...
Remember it well. Giants battle back from 24-7 deficit to tie it. Then 49ers Cofer missed a 52 yard FG only to have Giants called for offsides and get another shot from 47. This time he made it. SImms through a pick on the next possession and we were finished
Rams were emotionally spent after beating the Giants. And it showed...
Even if they had cruised against the Giants, it wouldn't have mattered. The Niners owned the Rams to an absurd degree. Rams won 10 or 11 games five of six seasons between 1984 and 1989 but went 4-9 against the Niners in that span, including the 89 playoffs. Giants only beat the Rams twice in that span, in the 1984 playoffs and the 1985 regular season.
Quote:
Team that made them better than the '90? Rodney Hampton was a rookie in '90 and had he not gotten hurt wouldve made our running game that much better.
As good as the '90 team was, it looked older than the '89 team including LT. '90 was really the last hurrah of the Parcells teams and they managed to get it done.
Ahhhh, gotcha. But still....its one year. Seemed to me like the same carnivorpus D plus Rodney Hampton.
I dunno. 90 was just a plenty good squad
But with all due respect, I just don't think it would have happened that year. In 1990 we saw a real dogfight of a game on MNF that exposed the 49ers inability to run the ball at the level they were accustomed to (i.e. Craig's knee). This carried over into the NFC Championship Game. The '90 Niners defense had a better defense than '89, but overall the team wasn't as good.
In 1989, to be able to put ~30 points on a Giants defense was a big deal. I don't see the '89 Giants holding the Niners to 13 points in the NFC Championship Game barring another Montana KO.
I know people on here say the Niners were a 7 point favorite that year and maybe they were, but even I was nervous leading up to that game and I was just an 11 year old who knew nothing about football compared to now. The Niners not only had their own issues but had 3peat pressure to contend with as well. It wasn't going to be an easy win no matter what happened. That was a game were you could easily bet the dog to cover, and possibly win. It had that feel to it.
And yet, despite the fake punt, Montana KO, Giants still almost lost that game. Even after the fumble recovery, the Giants final drive and even the winning kick itself almost didn't work out. I had rewatched that last drive maybe a year ago and was surprised how tight it was. The Giants had 4 or 5 things that had to go right to win, and they got them all.
I just can't see all of those factors playing out in 1989. And if it somehow did, what I'm fairly confident would have happened was the Giants missing the playoffs (like every other SB appearance in franchise history), and the Niners being SB 25 champs.
The Giants weren't going to win in '89 and '90. Their track record can't back that up.
The football gods got it all figured out. The Niners/Steelers/Patriots/Cowboys all have roughly the same about of SB trophies and conference title appearances (~15-16).
3peating was/is not going to be permitted by the gods.
Quote:
In comment 15016435 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Team that made them better than the '90? Rodney Hampton was a rookie in '90 and had he not gotten hurt wouldve made our running game that much better.
As good as the '90 team was, it looked older than the '89 team including LT. '90 was really the last hurrah of the Parcells teams and they managed to get it done.
Ahhhh, gotcha. But still....its one year. Seemed to me like the same carnivorpus D plus Rodney Hampton.
I dunno. 90 was just a plenty good squad
'90 had what the '88 and '89 teams lacked, the mental toughness and finishing ability. They played sixty intense, focused minutes and finished opponents.
Bottom line is that no one gave the '80s Niners more trouble than the Giants. Between 1981 and 1990, the Niners made the playoffs nine times, only missing in 1982. Four of those nine seasons, they went all the way. In three of the remaining five, the Giants ended their season. The 1983 Skins and 1987 Vikings are the only other teams to beat the Montana Niners in the playoffs.
I was very young and vaguely remember that. But I saw some “classic games” broadcast a few years ago and they showed that game. Refs called a PI on Eric Wright on a go pattern to Monk down the sideline. It was about a 30 yard penalty that put the ball deep in San Fran territory with about two minutes to go. By today’s standards, the call was poor. By the standards back then, it was horrific. I’m not sure Monk could have caught the ball on Gary Clarke’s shoulders. So I doubt it was even catchable...
In some of the interviews, former Niners who played in the game were furious over the call. They were convinced Montana was so hot that if they got the ball back they score and win the game.
May have seriously cost Walsh and Montana another SB.
Bottom line is that no one gave the '80s Niners more trouble than the Giants. Between 1981 and 1990, the Niners made the playoffs nine times, only missing in 1982. Four of those nine seasons, they went all the way. In three of the remaining five, the Giants ended their season. The 1983 Skins and 1987 Vikings are the only other teams to beat the Montana Niners in the playoffs.
Nobody doubts that the Giants could have possibly won in SF in '89. They certainly had the Niners # better than everyone else.
However, the points scored and points allowed for these two teams tells the story that the gap between the two teams were certainly closer in 1990 than 1989:
'89 NYG had #2 defense, SF #3.
'90 NYG had #1 defense, SF #2.
'89 NYG scored 348 points, '89 SF scored 442 points.
'90 NYG scored 335 points, '90 SF scored 353 points.
The gap tightened quite a bit over that year. Niners went from #1 offense to #8, PPG. #1 offense with #3 defense versus #8 offense and #2 defense is quite a gap.
Any given Sunday, but the stats mattered a bit more than they do now.
I was very young and vaguely remember that. But I saw some “classic games” broadcast a few years ago and they showed that game. Refs called a PI on Eric Wright on a go pattern to Monk down the sideline. It was about a 30 yard penalty that put the ball deep in San Fran territory with about two minutes to go. By today’s standards, the call was poor. By the standards back then, it was horrific. I’m not sure Monk could have caught the ball on Gary Clarke’s shoulders. So I doubt it was even catchable...
In some of the interviews, former Niners who played in the game were furious over the call. They were convinced Montana was so hot that if they got the ball back they score and win the game.
May have seriously cost Walsh and Montana another SB.
Might have.
Would the Niners have beaten the Raiders? Good question.
I was also told the Skins missed a few field goals that aided the comeback.
The bad calls notwithstanding, the football gods worked it out. Back then they decided championships, not the commissioner.
The PI was as weak as advertised. I'll bet it was a makeup call - there was a play a series or two earlier where I think Monk probably was interfered with and no call. Monk went ballistic on the ref. Wouldn't surprise me if that played a role in a much worse call.