both are up for UFA. Both are good not great players. We have a ton of cap room in 2022, and can clear a lot of space in 2021 by cutting Solder, Tate and Zeitler.
I don't see why we couldn't, AND still add a stud like Allen Robinson in Free Agency.
If we let Tomlinson walk, I imagine g-men will pick another run stuffing DT in 2nd round, and it just seems like while they pick good players there, it's never really a difference maker.
Zeitler, Solder, and Tate will more than likely be cut this offseason and rightfully so.
They will only get better the more they play together. I agree keep them if possible. Otherwise we end up using a draft spot to backfill. If we can re-sign we can use the spot for another position.
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In comment 15016598 adamg said:
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In comment 15016596 GMen72 said:
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Invest in 2-3 edge rushers not named Golden. Build a complete DLine that can actually pressure the QB.
Can you name a good ER in free agency we should target?
Bud Dupree?
Jadeveon Clowney is the exact same player as LW. Disruptive when he wants to be but doesn't put up overly impressive stats. Not to mention, he'd probably be cheaper than LW and be better than anything the Giants have now at either DE. Unless JC has a great 2nd half, he can prove signed for 13-14 mil per year...that's a better deal than LW at 4 mil more.
This is so inaccurate. You're comparing apples and oranges. Williams is a dirty work DT/DE who can pressure the QB at a high rate FOR THAT POSITION. HE's also very good against the run. He's a very good player no matter what the number crunchers here say. So is Thomlinson.
If you compare Williams to true edge players of course he's going to fall short in the flashy impact play department. Why not compare a fucking tackle to a WR while you're at it.
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That's why cutting him will incur a $2.5M hit. That is very manageable.
Zeitler, Solder, and Tate will more than likely be cut this offseason and rightfully so.
I have a feeling that one of Solder or Zeitler are kept and Zeitler is the better of the two. Unless Lemieux gets in there and wows them, Zeitler will stay, I think. If Thomas and Peart keep developing. Solder is gone.
Agree on Tate.
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I agree with Greg, Re-sign Tomlinson and Austin Johnson and then draft another DL in rounds 3-4.
I hope the Giants trade Leonard Williams before the trade deadline unless they win Thursday and are still in the playoff hunt.
Why not keep the line in tact, who have been playing together and improving as a unit? Use that 3-4 round pick on another position of need? It may cost them but Williams/Tomlinson/Lawrence will only be getting better together. Bringing in another guy from the 3rd/4th round certainly means a year of learning Graham's system...this sets them back up front?
Clowney's role looks more like Golden or Carter i'd say.
Clowney's role looks more like Golden or Carter i'd say.
That was always Clowney's role. He is an OLB/ER in a 3-4 or a DE in a 4-3..
LW is a 3-4 DE of a DT 4-3. The 3-4 DE is really a DT anyway.
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I think you have to understand how the 3-4 defense works to really appreciate how good Williams is. Otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy comparing him to players like Clowney.
Clowney's role looks more like Golden or Carter i'd say.
That was always Clowney's role. He is an OLB/ER in a 3-4 or a DE in a 4-3..
LW is a 3-4 DE of a DT 4-3. The 3-4 DE is really a DT anyway.
That's how I see it too. I agree.
They will get a 1st or 2nd for him and clear the cap as opposed to letting him walk for nothing.
As to the OP, it's going to be interesting if they'll have the cap space to sign both. I suspect it will be a choice of one and I'd sign LW, however, he's not a $20M per season player, imo. But, he does play a position that's harder to fill than Tomlinson's.
They will get a 1st or 2nd for him and clear the cap as opposed to letting him walk for nothing.
Agreed. This seems to be the new norm for big time players at premier positions. There will always be a contender willing to go all in on their window and add a pre-made star.
Barry Cofield
Linval Joseph
Jonathan Hankins
Dalvin Tomlinson (Hopefully we keep him)
The big miss was
Marvin Austin (BUST)
We know what we have with these two. If the draft has an ER when we pick, great! But yes we need an ER. But do you pay huge, huge money for say Dupree? I'd rather draft an ER and pray he can rush. Ximines isn't looking like a guy who will develop and Carter is hurt. Neither would be elite even if healthy and at their best.
Tough decisions ahead but in my mind Solder, Tate, Zeitler and definite cuts at this point so we will have cap space even if the cap doesn't go up at all due to Covid losses.
We know what we have with these two. If the draft has an ER when we pick, great! But yes we need an ER. But do you pay huge, huge money for say Dupree? I'd rather draft an ER and pray he can rush. Ximines isn't looking like a guy who will develop and Carter is hurt. Neither would be elite even if healthy and at their best.
Tough decisions ahead but in my mind Solder, Tate, Zeitler and definite cuts at this point so we will have cap space even if the cap doesn't go up at all due to Covid losses.
If you could resign one and Dupree would you do it? To me Dupree > Williams. And resign Tomlinson. If you draft a guy like Parsons additionally our defense is going to start looking elite.
Lawrence, Tomlinson, Johnson, Hill plus an extra pick or player...sounds better than breaking the bank with Williams and regretting the dollars later.
2. What is the Giants' draft position?
3. What is the pan with Barkley? Long-term signing? Let him play out the 5th year?
My preference would be to re-sign both players, draft edge rushers, WR, and corners in April. BUT, Jones has to prove he is the guy....mostly just prove that his field awareness and ball security have improved.
Separately, re: Tomlinson, 1 other factor of note is that UFA contract lengths have been declining in recent years, just as Bradberry and Martinez took 3 year deals here. Lawrence has 3 more years left on his rookie deal after this one (assuming the 5th year option gets picked up).
So they could extend Tomlinson for 3 years or so and there could be no overlap with Lawrence's 2nd contract.
Williams contract is different because he is a tier above as a player and negotiating off a much higher base. Resigning him is a more dynamic decision based on the alternatives in the market and his demands relative to the tag prices. In the flat cap offseason I'd be very tempted to transition tag him so they have the right of refusal. Then they can either decide to match the market price or know he will only walk if he gets severely overpaid (which would likely mean a comp pick is coming back).
Possible comp pick is always helpful but a pick now is better...bird in the hand.
ER and WR are the toughest skill positions to fill and keep. You sink that money into both, what are you going to do at RT and C. Pray that Peart and Lemuiex work out?
The Oline is not fortified. Trying to sink more money into a DL for the parts you have and ignore the same areas the talent level is deficit is a recipe for failure.
And will someone explain to me why RJ McIntosh is on the roster????
Possible comp pick is always helpful but a pick now is better...bird in the hand.
I don't disagree, but personally I wouldn't trade LW for anything short of a 2nd round pick. It would have to be for more than we got him for. Otherwise why bother since there's the prospect of retaining or receiving a comp pick.
But I am coming at this from the POV of seeing value in winning as many games possible this year. It is in everyone in the organizations (and us fans) best interest for Jones to be the guy, and Judge to be the guy, and Graham to be the guy, and having good players helps that cause. The sooner all of them can start getting wins and get the stink of losing off the better.
Let's face it - we have DT strength. Let's move a piece to potentially improve another area.
To me, unless you have an Aaron Donald type - a complete outlier talent - DT is a position that is fairly fungible. Always big guys on the market to fill gap. See New England.
Whereas Tomlinson who is a run stuffer will command $12-13M per most likely.
If thats the case and we can get a 3rd for him, yes you do it. Otherwise I maintain our strength on the D Line. BJ Hill has played better since last year and having 4 big D Linemen to rotate is a nice thing to have.
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the Bills may be looking to trade for Tomlinson.
If thats the case and we can get a 3rd for him, yes you do it. Otherwise I maintain our strength on the D Line. BJ Hill has played better since last year and having 4 big D Linemen to rotate is a nice thing to have.
I disagree. Tomlinson is worth more than a 3.
Whereas Tomlinson who is a run stuffer will command $12-13M per most likely.
I don't think Dalvin gets that much with the CAP losing about $25 mill next season. Probably $6-$8 mill range.
As to the OP's question, hell yes you sign them both if you can reasonably; letting good players go in the hopes of getting great ones is the road to 18 years of lousy football.
well said. Everybody is always saying don't pay this person, he is good but not great. Where are all the great players that we are going to acquire? How many DL are actually better than L. Williams? People talk like there are 8 A. Donald's out there or in the draft.
Getting rid of Jerry's people just to do it. DG has to go.
I think Dalvin is playing much better this season. He seems to be making a lot more plays. He also seems to stay on the field, which is a plus.
In the end, should DG be gone after this year, it will be up to the next GM with input from Judge. Perhaps Judge has a different view of Tomlinson than DG has.
First I heard of the trade rumor. I find that interesting
I like Tomlinson, Just like I liked Joseph and Hankins. It seems we grow DL talent and let them walk to sign supposedly better talent.
I can see them keeping LW and letting Tomlinson walk. No way to justify it not signing him. Gettleman is not going to let his top FA walk after the costs to get him. And I hate talk of Comp picks. I wonder when the last time a Comp pick worked out for the Giants?
With a lower cap next year, some hard decisions are going to have to be made.
Well, next year is year 2!