And WR's are literally running into one another or end up in same spot. Might not be Garrett could be rookies not understanding their routes on certain plays.
Yet he seems easily covered. He reminds me of Ramses Barden with bad hands. Even Saquon was touted as uncoverable as a receiving back, but seems like other teams have no problems covering him.
He just doesnt Possess the Full Body Flex and Coordination of the Greatest Athletes. I don't know if this is an athletic trait beyond stopwatches and measurements--maybe the 3 cone and shuttles come closest to hinting at this.
Most of the really great players possess great extension and "Gumby-ness" from their toes to their hands. It explains why Jose Altuve can be a Power Hitter, or why some guys can make spinning back shoulder catches.
For Receivers, this can be a Scouting Eye Test--- throw the guy 100 "Bad Balls" of all types.... ytou get an idea of whether his body can move like Gumby while still catching with centered eyes and hands.
EE is Test-ably Superior.... but the scale and the stopwatch don't explain why Alvin Kamara ran a 4.7, "and you can't tackle him in a phone booth" (Shannon Sharpe)
unless we also know how many routes deep down the field Engram runs and how many times he has been targeted deep.
Also worth noting that Daniel Jones is 29th in league among QBs for yards per pass thrown.
Perhaps but maybe i'm misunderstanding as well. Does this account for YAC? If so, wasn't that another thing EE was touted for and I think, in the past was actually true? Are Garretts TE routes more for 'traditional' TE's who can carry a guy or two on their back after a reception?
with usually a couple of defenders always very close.
He just has no feel whatsoever to get open versus zones, and when he does get man coverage it seems like its always a short route. Haven't seen any seam routes lately either but hard to tell on tv. Somehow got to get him involved with more than the reverse pitch play.
Add in our that our WRs have no clue how to run a pick play and Engram is quickly becoming worthless.
Jones led the league in air yards. This season he is last. Same type of receivers, better OL. The major change is JG.
I think people are underestimating the impact covid has had on certain teams that are trying to install more complicated schemes. I would also caution against assuming everything is the same as last year but Garrett. Players still age in the off-season, players don't necessarily play at the same level they did the prior year, what injuries has the offense had? In my view you aren't considering the multitude of additional possible causes that could be presently contributing to the lack of success on offense.
RE: RE: there is something wrobg with Garrett offense
They're not running deep because the OL can't hold the pocket long enough for deep routs. Jones would get killed on every 7-step drop.
Maybe so, but that doesn't mean they couldn't run Engram occasionally on an intermediate (say 15-20 yds) old fashioned, tried and true Giants TE seam route while the others run the Garrett 7 yard curls.
There has to be a copy of the Erhardt playbook somewhere in the building. :-)
what matters is what happens over the next 10 games. If the line continues to play better I expect the offense to open up including the playcalling. We are also trotting out Freeman instead of Barkley and the result of that is guys getting covered more easily, which is a huge reason why the air yards have decreased from 2019.
If EE was productive before Garrett you would have a point
and I still wouldn't be upset if they traded him. Especially before his soon to be injury. But they are still in it, so I dont expect any selling to happen.
and a complete lack of other weapons or options for the QB, EE still only has 1 pass completion of over 10 yards.. then its a problem.. no need to diminish it.. yes OL is a factor and yes once or twice DJ has missed him when he was open deep. but the number 1 reason why he doesn't have many passes down the field is because of himself..
He also won't go away, too. An annoying microcosm of the whole team's list of so-called studs; as we pleasantly approach the decade mark of doom when this team started to suck major ass.
so far this offense seems to be misusing Engram badly
Garrett has to be first in line to shoulder some blame but it's also a big test for Judge. He was very outspoken about putting his players in positions to succeed and not accepting excuses from coaches that players can't do what they are asking of them.
Here are some route charts of Engram's best games last year vs. his best game this year. It's really not hard to see the difference between the 2. The first 2 charts look like you'd expect any athletic receiving TE to look, a lot of action over the middle of the field trying to split safeties or run away from LB's. Whereas Engram's most targeted game this year literally looks like the Jason Witten route tree.
Last year - lots of routes working up the seams and allowing for YAC
This year - lots of shallow routes and half his targets were curls coming back to the QB (no YAC).
I really wish Garrett would just open his mind to trying to incorporate more of what worked last year for both Engram and Jones within his offense. I think his scheme has helped improve the OL and running game considering the loss of SB, but he needs to unlock more chunk plays through the passing game. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/evan-engram/ENG726325/season - ( New Window )
hard to throw deep.....if they are not doing it
hard to throw deep.....if they are not doing it
And WR's are literally running into one another or end up in same spot. Might not be Garrett could be rookies not understanding their routes on certain plays.
hard to throw deep.....if they are not doing it
They're not running deep because the OL can't hold the pocket long enough for deep routs. Jones would get killed on every 7-step drop.
Ironically, the 1 time he did, the fake FG - it was called back.
He just isn't a very good player, and loses coordination the further downfield he gets.
Most of the really great players possess great extension and "Gumby-ness" from their toes to their hands. It explains why Jose Altuve can be a Power Hitter, or why some guys can make spinning back shoulder catches.
For Receivers, this can be a Scouting Eye Test--- throw the guy 100 "Bad Balls" of all types.... ytou get an idea of whether his body can move like Gumby while still catching with centered eyes and hands.
EE is Test-ably Superior.... but the scale and the stopwatch don't explain why Alvin Kamara ran a 4.7, "and you can't tackle him in a phone booth" (Shannon Sharpe)
Also worth noting that Daniel Jones is 29th in league among QBs for yards per pass thrown.
Also worth noting that Daniel Jones is 29th in league among QBs for yards per pass thrown.
Agreed. Will be interesting to check on this statistic in the second half of the year, hopefully the OL progress is starting to have an impact.
Also worth noting that Daniel Jones is 29th in league among QBs for yards per pass thrown.
Perhaps but maybe i'm misunderstanding as well. Does this account for YAC? If so, wasn't that another thing EE was touted for and I think, in the past was actually true? Are Garretts TE routes more for 'traditional' TE's who can carry a guy or two on their back after a reception?
hard to throw deep.....if they are not doing it
Hard to throw deep when the OL can’t block...
He just has no feel whatsoever to get open versus zones, and when he does get man coverage it seems like its always a short route. Haven't seen any seam routes lately either but hard to tell on tv. Somehow got to get him involved with more than the reverse pitch play.
Add in our that our WRs have no clue how to run a pick play and Engram is quickly becoming worthless.
Maybe tonight is the break out game.
By "air yards" you mean subtracting yards gained after the catch I presume?
That is very surprising to me if so.
I think people are underestimating the impact covid has had on certain teams that are trying to install more complicated schemes. I would also caution against assuming everything is the same as last year but Garrett. Players still age in the off-season, players don't necessarily play at the same level they did the prior year, what injuries has the offense had? In my view you aren't considering the multitude of additional possible causes that could be presently contributing to the lack of success on offense.
Quote:
No one is running deep.
hard to throw deep.....if they are not doing it
They're not running deep because the OL can't hold the pocket long enough for deep routs. Jones would get killed on every 7-step drop.
Maybe so, but that doesn't mean they couldn't run Engram occasionally on an intermediate (say 15-20 yds) old fashioned, tried and true Giants TE seam route while the others run the Garrett 7 yard curls.
There has to be a copy of the Erhardt playbook somewhere in the building. :-)
Yup.
He also won't go away, too. An annoying microcosm of the whole team's list of so-called studs; as we pleasantly approach the decade mark of doom when this team started to suck major ass.
Here are some route charts of Engram's best games last year vs. his best game this year. It's really not hard to see the difference between the 2. The first 2 charts look like you'd expect any athletic receiving TE to look, a lot of action over the middle of the field trying to split safeties or run away from LB's. Whereas Engram's most targeted game this year literally looks like the Jason Witten route tree.
Last year - lots of routes working up the seams and allowing for YAC
This year - lots of shallow routes and half his targets were curls coming back to the QB (no YAC).
I really wish Garrett would just open his mind to trying to incorporate more of what worked last year for both Engram and Jones within his offense. I think his scheme has helped improve the OL and running game considering the loss of SB, but he needs to unlock more chunk plays through the passing game.
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/evan-engram/ENG726325/season - ( New Window )