is reasonable since they are competitors. The Giants were not with Williams. And the Vikings thought they would be competitors this year, which they clearly are not, so their initial trade with the Jags made sense.
But from the Vikings perspective, while this does seem a bit Gettleman-esque, at least they cut bait at the right time to get maximum value and minimize the loss.
From what I can gather the Ravens already have Matt Judon tagged, and Yannick was already playing on the tag?
Regardless, could this be seen as good for the Giants in the sense that it could increase the likelihood that a high-level EDGE is available in free agency without having to deal with trading a 1st or 2nd for a guy on the tag?
is reasonable since they are competitors. The Giants were not with Williams. And the Vikings thought they would be competitors this year, which they clearly are not, so their initial trade with the Jags made sense.
But from the Vikings perspective, while this does seem a bit Gettleman-esque, at least they cut bait at the right time to get maximum value and minimize the loss.
Correct. And also, Ngakoue has been more productive in his career than Leonard Williams.
I was literally starting a post on why I thought Ngakoue was likely to hit UFA. The Vikings are both bad and have one of the more complicated/bad cap situations in the NFL. I didn't think they could afford to franchise him and they are having to play wait and see with Hunter's injury situation.
From what I can gather the Ravens already have Matt Judon tagged, and Yannick was already playing on the tag?
Regardless, could this be seen as good for the Giants in the sense that it could increase the likelihood that a high-level EDGE is available in free agency without having to deal with trading a 1st or 2nd for a guy on the tag?
Ngakoue is not on the tag with MIN. Once traded he negotiated a contract with MIN that was less than the tag.
this would seemingly set the deadline rental price for FA to be
like LW. This was obviously also a similar return to what he brought back to the NYJ last year. I'd imagine the NYG would be uninterested in entertaining trading him at this level but I guess you never know.
is reasonable since they are competitors. The Giants were not with Williams. And the Vikings thought they would be competitors this year, which they clearly are not, so their initial trade with the Jags made sense.
But from the Vikings perspective, while this does seem a bit Gettleman-esque, at least they cut bait at the right time to get maximum value and minimize the loss.
Correct. And also, Ngakoue has been more productive in his career than Leonard Williams.
YN is only 25 and already has 42.5 sacks and 16 forced fumbles in five seasons.
LW isn't in the same league as YN for disrupting the passing game.
MIN for this. They did misread their team and thought they'd be contenders, but they had every right to IMO and the addition of Ngakoue made sense.
They realized they are not likely to contend, took their medicine (drop off in 2nd round pick to 3rd) plus the salary that is a sunk cost and they moved on.
They were a playoff a team in 2019, won a game and had a good portion of their team back.
They took a shot, missed, and keep moving forward.
and will, of course, be awesome for the Ravens as a situational pass rusher.
He is someone that a rebuilding team should have absolutely no interest in.
It's the perfect kind of move for the Ravens - a team trying to compete for a championship.
I also give props to the Vikes. They thought they were title contenders at the beginning of the season, but then realized they were not mid-way through and cut their loses.
More like 1.5 rounds based on draft positioning (and ignoring the delta in the 5th rd picks). Plus a few million in cap space.
whatever, not going to debate high 2nd vs low 3rd, 2nd round to 3rd round is one round. if you want to get into minutiae while fact checking me, have at it. The salary is a sunk cost, they don't lose that again to get rid of him. but again, don't care to debate pedantic points.
Acquire the picks, sign Tomlinson and go after Matt Ionnadis, who can opt out this year, I believe.
He has a better pass rushing skill set than LW and produces more sacks. Only making 7M a year right now. And only 26 years old.
I love Matt Ioannidis. He's the most underrated DT in football. I would much rather spend on him than give than give more to Leonard Williams. I'd sign Ioannidis and re-sign Tomlinson and Austin Johnson.
RE: this would seemingly set the deadline rental price for FA to be
like LW. This was obviously also a similar return to what he brought back to the NYJ last year. I'd imagine the NYG would be uninterested in entertaining trading him at this level but I guess you never know.
Williams makes about 25% more, plays a slightly less valuable position, and has one more year of wear and tear on him. The Vikings were able to absorb the 4M bonus, plus the percentage of his salary, so the Ravens are probably on the hook for 5M. I think if Williams was traded today, wouldn't the receiving team be on the hook for roughly over 10M?
If this sets the market for a rental, I don't think the Giants would get a presumptive low 3rd.
I guess the Viking realize that they are not contending this year
MIN for this. They did misread their team and thought they'd be contenders, but they had every right to IMO and the addition of Ngakoue made sense.
They realized they are not likely to contend, took their medicine (drop off in 2nd round pick to 3rd) plus the salary that is a sunk cost and they moved on.
They were a playoff a team in 2019, won a game and had a good portion of their team back.
They took a shot, missed, and keep moving forward.
Well said. They have ten picks in 2021 before this trade.
But no second rounders. This now gives them two 3rd rounders, along with three 4th rounders. So they have more collateral to move up if needed...
They have 5 picks in the draft, they have a few current and desparate needs(WR is a black hole). They need to make a few moves that will enable them to at least upgrade a couple of spots. I think they need to trade for a WR, jettison a couple of people for draft picks and I don't think Gettleman is capable of this amount of creativity in a short amount of time. Trade EE for a draft pick(4th or 3rd if we are lucky), trade either tomlinson, Williams or a package of 2 DL for a pick or a WR. Does Freeman or Gallman return anything? Hell, trade Gano if you can get a 3rd round or higher for him. pick up Stephen Hauschka or is vinateri still alive?
RE: But yet, LW has about double the pressures of Ngakoue
Why get rid of a productive ER at a CLEAR LOSS of draft capital unless he's an a complete asshole. Sure, you save some money, but this is a young pass rusher. And a minute ago, you thought you needed one.
You don't get rid of young pass rushers under MOST circumstances -- especially if you think you're gonna be competitive next season.
Sounds like they're getting rid of him. An addition by subtraction move.
Why get rid of a productive ER at a CLEAR LOSS of draft capital unless he's an a complete asshole. Sure, you save some money, but this is a young pass rusher. And a minute ago, you thought you needed one.
You don't get rid of young pass rushers under MOST circumstances -- especially if you think you're gonna be competitive next season.
Sounds like they're getting rid of him. An addition by subtraction move.
Probably because they couldn't agree on terms for a new deal or they realized their window isn't close and just want to get their assets back.
They tried going for it and lost, and are recouping some of what they paid.
The Vikings made the move for Yannick because they thought they were in the hunt for a ring. They are 1-5, their best defender hasn’t played a snap and is getting neck surgery. They are cutting their losses.
The more interesting development is Yannick or Judon hits free agency now.
KC is very good and still the favorite but the Ravens are pretty dosh darn good too. You need pass rushers to win in this league.
Ravens have to figure out a way to keep Mahomes from getting 30+. Maybe this upgrade will help.
But the Ravens still need more help at receiver. Because it's very likely if they can't slow down Mahomes they will have to figure out how get into the track meet.
that style of QB and offense tends to have issues in the playoffs, mainly because he's still an unpolished passer, and reading defenses still pops up as an issue against the better teams. Sometimes you just need to slow them down, not fully stop them.
move by both teams. As others have said, the Vikings legitimately thought they'd contend this season, so they traded for Ngakoue. When it became clear they wouldn't, they got what they could for him. The Ravens get a high quality pass rusher for an affordable price in terms of salary and draft picks. They are such a well run organization.
Acquire the picks, sign Tomlinson and go after Matt Ionnadis, who can opt out this year, I believe.
He has a better pass rushing skill set than LW and produces more sacks. Only making 7M a year right now. And only 26 years old.
Are his pass rushing skills really that much better? He has a few more sacks but LW gets way more hits on the QB. Plus LW is 6 months younger despite the fact people talk about him like he's 34. Then there's the whole torn bicep.
Acquire the picks, sign Tomlinson and go after Matt Ionnadis, who can opt out this year, I believe.
He has a better pass rushing skill set than LW and produces more sacks. Only making 7M a year right now. And only 26 years old.
Are his pass rushing skills really that much better? He has a few more sacks but LW gets way more hits on the QB. Plus LW is 6 months younger despite the fact people talk about him like he's 34. Then there's the whole torn bicep.
Some teams are just run well.
But from the Vikings perspective, while this does seem a bit Gettleman-esque, at least they cut bait at the right time to get maximum value and minimize the loss.
So they lost a round for 6 weeks of Ngakoue
Regardless, could this be seen as good for the Giants in the sense that it could increase the likelihood that a high-level EDGE is available in free agency without having to deal with trading a 1st or 2nd for a guy on the tag?
And he had two forced fumbles.
The Ravens continue to play chess...
But from the Vikings perspective, while this does seem a bit Gettleman-esque, at least they cut bait at the right time to get maximum value and minimize the loss.
Correct. And also, Ngakoue has been more productive in his career than Leonard Williams.
Regardless, could this be seen as good for the Giants in the sense that it could increase the likelihood that a high-level EDGE is available in free agency without having to deal with trading a 1st or 2nd for a guy on the tag?
Ngakoue is not on the tag with MIN. Once traded he negotiated a contract with MIN that was less than the tag.
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is reasonable since they are competitors. The Giants were not with Williams. And the Vikings thought they would be competitors this year, which they clearly are not, so their initial trade with the Jags made sense.
But from the Vikings perspective, while this does seem a bit Gettleman-esque, at least they cut bait at the right time to get maximum value and minimize the loss.
Correct. And also, Ngakoue has been more productive in his career than Leonard Williams.
YN is only 25 and already has 42.5 sacks and 16 forced fumbles in five seasons.
LW isn't in the same league as YN for disrupting the passing game.
He's being treated like a hot potato
They realized they are not likely to contend, took their medicine (drop off in 2nd round pick to 3rd) plus the salary that is a sunk cost and they moved on.
They were a playoff a team in 2019, won a game and had a good portion of their team back.
They took a shot, missed, and keep moving forward.
He is someone that a rebuilding team should have absolutely no interest in.
It's the perfect kind of move for the Ravens - a team trying to compete for a championship.
I also give props to the Vikes. They thought they were title contenders at the beginning of the season, but then realized they were not mid-way through and cut their loses.
Good move for both teams.
Thanks for the clarification. Interesting that he left so much on the table ($5.7M) to get out of JAX.
Link - ( New Window )
YN is one of the worst edge run defenders in the NFL.
So they lost a round for 6 weeks of Ngakoue
More like 1.5 rounds based on draft positioning (and ignoring the delta in the 5th rd picks). Plus a few million in cap space.
He has a better pass rushing skill set than LW and produces more sacks. Only making 7M a year right now. And only 26 years old.
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acquired him for a 2nd and conditional 5th.
So they lost a round for 6 weeks of Ngakoue
More like 1.5 rounds based on draft positioning (and ignoring the delta in the 5th rd picks). Plus a few million in cap space.
whatever, not going to debate high 2nd vs low 3rd, 2nd round to 3rd round is one round. if you want to get into minutiae while fact checking me, have at it. The salary is a sunk cost, they don't lose that again to get rid of him. but again, don't care to debate pedantic points.
He has a better pass rushing skill set than LW and produces more sacks. Only making 7M a year right now. And only 26 years old.
I love Matt Ioannidis. He's the most underrated DT in football. I would much rather spend on him than give than give more to Leonard Williams. I'd sign Ioannidis and re-sign Tomlinson and Austin Johnson.
Williams makes about 25% more, plays a slightly less valuable position, and has one more year of wear and tear on him. The Vikings were able to absorb the 4M bonus, plus the percentage of his salary, so the Ravens are probably on the hook for 5M. I think if Williams was traded today, wouldn't the receiving team be on the hook for roughly over 10M?
If this sets the market for a rental, I don't think the Giants would get a presumptive low 3rd.
And he had two forced fumbles.
The Ravens continue to play chess...
Not yet, we should probably wait on his results with the Ravens.
They realized they are not likely to contend, took their medicine (drop off in 2nd round pick to 3rd) plus the salary that is a sunk cost and they moved on.
They were a playoff a team in 2019, won a game and had a good portion of their team back.
They took a shot, missed, and keep moving forward.
Well said. They have ten picks in 2021 before this trade.
But no second rounders. This now gives them two 3rd rounders, along with three 4th rounders. So they have more collateral to move up if needed...
This where having a seemingly lame-duck GM kills the Giants.
Good things will happen
Good things will happen
The more this season plays out - the more I'm with you.
Dude has been a really good player with literally no help on the edges.
He's been a good citizen and hard worker - I've read some very positive things from the coaches about his approach.
If you're not investing in this kind of player through re-build, who are you going to invest in?
Basically to get out of JAX. MIN did not have the cap space to make the trade, so Ngakoue took less than the tag on a one year deal with MIN.
Didn't realize they extended Cousins this past offseason...yikes.
You don't get rid of young pass rushers under MOST circumstances -- especially if you think you're gonna be competitive next season.
Sounds like they're getting rid of him. An addition by subtraction move.
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was smart to trade Diggs when they did, Jefferson looks like a shorter Julio Jones.
They seem to miss Diggs, but Jefferson is better long term. Rare situation where it was a win-win for both teams.
Jefferson is the real deal. This 2020 WR class is looking pretty damn good (as expected).
Too bad we chose this draft not to select one... ;)
You don't get rid of young pass rushers under MOST circumstances -- especially if you think you're gonna be competitive next season.
Sounds like they're getting rid of him. An addition by subtraction move.
Probably because they couldn't agree on terms for a new deal or they realized their window isn't close and just want to get their assets back.
They tried going for it and lost, and are recouping some of what they paid.
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YN is an Edge, LW is not.
YN is one of the worst edge run defenders in the NFL.
I trust the Ravens' scouts and how they'll use him. They are one of best orgs in the NFL.
The more interesting development is Yannick or Judon hits free agency now.
That's what happens when your scouting and pro personnel department are top notch.
Ravens have to figure out a way to keep Mahomes from getting 30+. Maybe this upgrade will help.
But the Ravens still need more help at receiver. Because it's very likely if they can't slow down Mahomes they will have to figure out how get into the track meet.
He has a better pass rushing skill set than LW and produces more sacks. Only making 7M a year right now. And only 26 years old.
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Acquire the picks, sign Tomlinson and go after Matt Ionnadis, who can opt out this year, I believe.
He has a better pass rushing skill set than LW and produces more sacks. Only making 7M a year right now. And only 26 years old.
Are his pass rushing skills really that much better? He has a few more sacks but LW gets way more hits on the QB. Plus LW is 6 months younger despite the fact people talk about him like he's 34. Then there's the whole torn bicep.
Williams is a good two-gapper, but that's it.