Yes, I'm as pissed as anyone for losing the way we did last night.
I fucking hate the Eagles. Can't stand them. I cursed at the screen all night because of how bad I hate losing to them, cursed at our team, at the refs. Madre Harper needs to pay the piper. Engram is an athlete non-football player with a loser's karma the size of a naval boat anchor. Real coach/team killer. Maybe a practice superstar, but not a gamer. He needs to be jettison'ed. The ticky tack penalties were killer of course.
All that said, and even with the talent deficiencies, this is the first time that I felt the Giants weren't laughingly out-coached by Pederson. In fact, I think Judge was far superior and kept us in it. I felt that way in Dallas against McCarthy. Of course he beat Rivera. We've been kept in close games against Chicago & LA.
This coach is the real freaking deal. Our roster is super young, very undermanned with talent, have a losing culture to overcome, and we still don't know how to finish at all -- another teaching point last night. But... I cannot help but feel when Judge shook Pederson's hand at the end of the game, that it was Pederson this time that felt like he got away with one, and that the days of walking easily over the Giants is over.
With the way the Eagles core is aging, Wentz is spiraling, and our coaching staff keeps us in games every week, if the Giants can figure out a way to juice up this roster, Judge continues to lay the foundation for a winning culture and eradicates the chronic loser-ship, I truly believe we are on the upswing. I needed to see it against the Eagles because of how they've owned our asses, especially coaching-wise. We let them off the hook last night, but when we truly understand how to win, that won't be happening anymore. As frustrating as the loss was, I think this is a turning point.
If DG is out, Judge needs to be a major part of the selection process for GM so that those two can not only be on the same page, but starting on the same paragraph, and going line-by-line toward building a winner in lockstep.
I believe in coach Judge. I'm pissed we lost, but I feel we really have something special in him. I don't think you're going to see the division winning streaks continue against us much longer, and the rest of the division knows it.
I’d look to trade Engram & Tate for draft picks if you can get anything.
They will when they get better players - it is that obvious.
You cannot trot a Ryan Lewis out there and have him give up a 53 yarder against Dallas and a 59 yarder against Philly when any one or two minute delay in time wins you the game
Aside from the fucking team in DC.
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but they have to start winning some games.
They will when they get better players - it is that obvious.
You cannot trot a Ryan Lewis out there and have him give up a 53 yarder against Dallas and a 59 yarder against Philly when any one or two minute delay in time wins you the game
Hope you are right
Couple of years, fuck that, this team cant be 1 6 after seven weeks next year. If you go into a season with a developmental mentality you are already doomed.
I hope they win again this year.
Matt, absolutely.
And scenes like what you describe are exactly what replays in my mind over and over. Literally laughing, on camera, at how stupid coaches like Shurmur were. How bad does it have to be to where another coach is laughing in public at your head coach? I just know Doug wasn't laughing last night against our scrappy under-handed squad, and the shoe will soon be on the other foot if we can build this team up properly. No more cake-walks, Mr. Pederson.
Helps the losses not hit as hard..
I also thing thinknthey have their coach which will help because i think with his input they will turn this team around quicker then we think
That was up there with the worst of the Philly losses, and I lost it in a way that I haven't in quite a long time after that game. I couldn't sleep last night. I'm gonna have to listen to shit all day here at work and I'm gonna have to do it with a smile because I wont give them the satisfaction.
Once Gettleman is gone, once the roster is *competently* rebuilt, hopefully right about the time Philly is trying to figure out what to do with Wentz and Love and Pederson's job rides on the outcome... that will be an enjoyable day.
Talent helps, but come on, so many other teams dont let every 3rd down passrush get there in 2-3 seconds for a strip sack. Come on.
I still remember them laughing at how unprepared our special teams was that game. I think that would never happen under Judge and his situational thinking. I hope he's the guy.
I'm no fan of Pedersen but the Eagles rallied from an 11 point deficit with 6 minutes to go without their two best RB's, two best tight ends, their top three receivers and scrubs on the o-line. Give the devil his due. Outcoached my ass.
Go ahead and have faith in Judge but until he starts winning some games around here, he's just another tough-talking Patriot assistant that is nothing without Lil Bill in back of him.
If you are watching these games and think this team isn't playing a different brand of football from the previous few years then I seriously question your opinions on anything related to football.
Losing Barkley, McKinney, Baker & Beal off an already thin team was a killer.
I do agree that Judge looks like a very prepared coach which is nice but until that translates to wins not sure my HOPE can take it.
Please get some more talent on this team 🙏
Also, we were thoroughly outplayed in the first half and were lucky to enter halftime only down 3.
If you are watching these games and think this team isn't playing a different brand of football from the previous few years then I seriously question your opinions on anything related to football.
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if you are only looking at record then you aren't applying any critical thinking. Sure, record is all that matters but since the team stinks we kinda have to look past that right now. Going on every thread crying about the record seems like low hanging fruit.
If you are watching these games and think this team isn't playing a different brand of football from the previous few years then I seriously question your opinions on anything related to football.
Please explain how it is a different brand of football so we may all benefit from your wisdom because this sure looks like Shurmur's team with a worse offense to us uninitiated.
I've already explained. I've got nothing more to say to you - I've read your posts this morning. You want to keep repeating the same things and don't want to apply any critical thinking. You are an angry fan and you are entitled to that. But conversing with you is a fruitless exercise.
Terps, JonC, and plenty of other quality posters disagree with you.
It won't, we are going to win some games. We don't have a shot at Lawrence, we'd basically need to go 2-14 and even that may not be enough.
I mean, "better than Pat Shurmur" isn't exactly a demanding standard to meet.
Offense-worse-no Barkley, new system, not enough talent.
They did not lose last night because of talent.
They also beat the 49ers, a team that kicked the shit out of us.
It seems every time the Giants are *this* close to winning a game a lot of people just say oh the other team is terrible.
Losing sucks, there's no excuses, this team just needs to fucking win. But let's at least be honest.
97 Yard drive....whoopee. We still can't finish. DJ still turns the ball over. Engram still can't catch. The D couldn't make a stop when it mattered.
I get Joe Judge sounds intelligent and I believe that he is. Only results matter. I am tired of excuses, I am tired of moral victories. Win or STFU.
When did that kick happen? LOL
I'm 50 year + fan. As heartbreaking as last night was the bigger picture is this team is filled with terrible players. Until the Mara brothers hire a real GM and step back from picking the players the NYG are doomed.
Anyone who posts things like the guy above have no idea what they're watching. Half of the Giants starters would struggle to make the roster of the best teams in the league.
As a general rule, I ignore what people say. Every single person on this planet says the things that make them look good. It is all bullshit. I focus instead on actions and results. You can only be conned if you listen.
This^^
Until this franchise starts to close out winnable games Judge will be toeing a very fine line.
That was up there with the worst of the Philly losses, and I lost it in a way that I haven't in quite a long time after that game. I couldn't sleep last night.
I have handled losses like taking out the garbage the last few years. But not Philly. I called a Engram a fucking cunt at the top of lungs in front of my wife and son. They bring out the worst in me. I despise them. Living in south Jersey will do that to a man.
Jackson and Parkey and now Engram. Three crushing losses that all should have been wins. Fuck Philly.
Philly had one starter playing at the end of the game on the O-Line. DECIMATED and drove to score.
The 49ers had 162 guys out and pushed our shit in.
Our talent is bad but teams are beating us with street free agents playing serious time.
I'm 50 year + fan. As heartbreaking as last night was the bigger picture is this team is filled with terrible players. Until the Mara brothers hire a real GM and step back from picking the players the NYG are doomed.
Anyone who posts things like the guy above have no idea what they're watching. Half of the Giants starters would struggle to make the roster of the best teams in the league.
True, but the Eagles beat them with a cast of scrubs and a completely devastated offensive line (while we’ve had 7 games of OL health). Ever hear of John Hightower? Me neither. Good teams win with backups and waiver wire talent. We are hopefully going to move some day to where the Eagles are, a core of winners like Kelce, Cox, and Graham — but who knows.
Philly had one starter playing at the end of the game on the O-Line. DECIMATED and drove to score.
The 49ers had 162 guys out and pushed our shit in.
Our talent is bad but teams are beating us with street free agents playing serious time.
You know he's building a program from scratch right? Pederson has built his, injuries and all. Shanahan has built his, injuries and all. Good programs can handle injuries, its just that simple.
Give me 2-3 years of Judge building his program and I'm of the opinion its going to look a lot like the ones you quoted. Don't know what else to tell you, you just need to wait.
If you took Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce off of the Chiefs for a couple of games they will still go out and win..
Same thing with Patriots in the Tom Brady era..
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I am having a hard time grasping the approval of Judge.
Philly had one starter playing at the end of the game on the O-Line. DECIMATED and drove to score.
The 49ers had 162 guys out and pushed our shit in.
Our talent is bad but teams are beating us with street free agents playing serious time.
You know he's building a program from scratch right? Pederson has built his, injuries and all. Shanahan has built his, injuries and all. Good programs can handle injuries, its just that simple.
Give me 2-3 years of Judge building his program and I'm of the opinion its going to look a lot like the ones you quoted. Don't know what else to tell you, you just need to wait.
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In comment 15021631 BlueHurricane said:
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I am having a hard time grasping the approval of Judge.
Philly had one starter playing at the end of the game on the O-Line. DECIMATED and drove to score.
The 49ers had 162 guys out and pushed our shit in.
Our talent is bad but teams are beating us with street free agents playing serious time.
You know he's building a program from scratch right? Pederson has built his, injuries and all. Shanahan has built his, injuries and all. Good programs can handle injuries, its just that simple.
Give me 2-3 years of Judge building his program and I'm of the opinion its going to look a lot like the ones you quoted. Don't know what else to tell you, you just need to wait.
No. Tired of waiting. Win some games.
you are tired after 7 games? I know it sucks to do but you habe to forfet about the paat couple of years, those are not on judge.
This is exactly where I am. There are reasons for optimism but people are massively overstating their case because they're getting desperate for something, anything, to feel good about.
Lmao
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I see some good things but I think people are just really dying for reasons to be excited about this team. Blowing last nights game was terrible.
This is exactly where I am. There are reasons for optimism but people are massively overstating their case because they're getting desperate for something, anything, to feel good about.
Saying he can't be performing well because the team is terrible is too simplistic. And there's no way for the Giants to get out of this hole without thinking analytically about the problem. So I agree - we appear to have our head coach. Next, we need a real GM.
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I see some good things but I think people are just really dying for reasons to be excited about this team. Blowing last nights game was terrible.
This is exactly where I am. There are reasons for optimism but people are massively overstating their case because they're getting desperate for something, anything, to feel good about.
I see some improvements, such as less mental errors defensively. But there were boneheaded decisions. The punt with the guy wide-open should have been an easy audible. The undisciplined penalty that gave the Eagles 15 yards to start their drive was inexcusable.
On the plus side, I think Gates has progressed at Center (but I can't tell if I'm imaging this given that the OL sucks). The play-calling was better last night.
I want to be optimistic, but I don't see a ton of evidence of a well-coached team yet.
IMO there's a clear difference in this team that happens to be void of talent. If you don't that's cool - you've said it about 7 times now. What's your next post going to say?
Most places the gm doesnt choose his own coach, its collabrative in most cases
I think Judge should pick the GM to be honest. If we want him to build a program, then he should be able to pick the guy to go shopping for him. I believe it will still come down to Mara approval but Judge is going to have a huge say in the next GM.
No GM here is coming with the power to pick their HC.
The offense remains totally unproductive but they are missing their best player and did look a little better last night with Shepherd back. There is really no talent there and the offensive line is clearly struggling. Jones has no time to throw and when he does the players are often tightly covered.
1 thing I will say is that their body language looks better especially on defense. Not so many guys sulking and yelling at each other. Is just going to take time I guess but I never thought I would see this team a bottom of the barrel team for so many years like the Detroit's and Cleveland's of the world.
But I am not swayed style with all of Judge's blue collar speak and sounding good with the media. Have never seen any evidence that translates to wins on the field.
I give Judge credit for the Graham hire so far. Graham has done a real nice job with a defense full of deficiencies. They play hard and show signs at times.
Until we start winning close games and stringing together a series of wins, the jury is out on Judge. But he certainly deserves a better crack at it with better players.
That was up there with the worst of the Philly losses, and I lost it in a way that I haven't in quite a long time after that game. I couldn't sleep last night. I'm gonna have to listen to shit all day here at work and I'm gonna have to do it with a smile because I wont give them the satisfaction.
Once Gettleman is gone, once the roster is *competently* rebuilt, hopefully right about the time Philly is trying to figure out what to do with Wentz and Love and Pederson's job rides on the outcome... that will be an enjoyable day.
I too was so damned pissed last night at the way we lost and couldn’t get one damn stop at the end. As good as the D has been in spots, throughout games, it’s been equally bad on first drives and at the end of the half and game. You can’t win games, especially if you can’t get the requisite stops at the end. This team is so close and yet so far. We do need more talent on D and a bit more on Offense. We need to be capable of closing out games. Philly seems to find the extra gear when the game is on the line. We need that desperately!
These are all problems that have consistently plagued us for more than a few years. So, no, I don't think we turned any corners. This team just flat out SUCKS. Fuck this fucking team.
Maybe elsewhere, but I think it was established that Reese held substantially more power than Coughlin in the end.
IMO there's a clear difference in this team that happens to be void of talent. If you don't that's cool - you've said it about 7 times now. What's your next post going to say?
The team has kept it close in all but one game.
That said, the team is the second worst in the league in giveaways - and while there is a talent reason in part that also comes down to coaching. The leaders in giveaways (ie least giveaways) are well coached teams like Green Bay Tennessee Seattle etc
so true
At 1-6 after winning 12 games total over the previous 3 seasons and 6 of the last 7 amounting to about the same, there are no silver linings, no moral victories. There are just more losses. A loss is a loss is a loss at this point. You know what losing by less than a TD so many weeks means? It means you don't know how to win.
I don't see this discipline. The penalty on the punt return prior to one of the Eagles' 4th quarter TDs and the post-touchdown penalty prior to the 2-point conversion are two examples that spring to mind.
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you’ve said it a lot. Your asking for something no one can give you. I don’t agree with you. Move on.
Umm, no. You could move on yourself, I guess. Do strangers normally listen to you? 1-6 or how about 13-42. Those are the numbers that matter. Hint...it isn't good.
Hey man, you asked for reasons and some of us gave them to you. You don't agree with the reasons. What more is need to be said? We are 1-6, its the only thing the matters and if you aren't willing to look past that, that's on you.
And yes, grown adults in real life are able to disagree and move on. So it happens plenty, try it some time. What's your goal here anyway?
I love the OP. I hope its true. I do believe in Judge, very much so. I have lost my faith in the Giants though. Hopefully Judge conquers.
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In comment 15022042 UConn4523 said:
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you’ve said it a lot. Your asking for something no one can give you. I don’t agree with you. Move on.
Umm, no. You could move on yourself, I guess. Do strangers normally listen to you? 1-6 or how about 13-42. Those are the numbers that matter. Hint...it isn't good.
Hey man, you asked for reasons and some of us gave them to you. You don't agree with the reasons. What more is need to be said? We are 1-6, its the only thing the matters and if you aren't willing to look past that, that's on you.
And yes, grown adults in real life are able to disagree and move on. So it happens plenty, try it some time. What's your goal here anyway?
I happen to think Judge is a keeper, and I've explained reasons why. The results haven't matched, not a damn thing I can do about that. If we end up still shitty in 2022 then I guess I'm wrong - I'll live and move on.
I happen to think Judge is a keeper, and I've explained reasons why. The results haven't matched, not a damn thing I can do about that. If we end up still shitty in 2022 then I guess I'm wrong - I'll live and move on.
Young team, flawed roster, everyone doing the best they can.
Last night was harpooned by the above and helping the Eagles to the win : namely Engram's crucial drop, and crucial brain dead penalties from the DBs who are left out to dry by zero pass rush and an overrated DL.
I really don't see any improvement in Hernandez/Thomas week-to-week, which is so disappointing.
Young team, flawed roster, everyone doing the best they can.
Last night was harpooned by the above and helping the Eagles to the win : namely Engram's crucial drop, and crucial brain dead penalties from the DBs who are left out to dry by zero pass rush and an overrated DL.
Last night I saw a ton of Edge pressure eating up the tackles, and the Eagles front is predicated on speed and stretching an OL out wide creating gaps.
Funny thing I did notice is NYG OL getting away with a TON of holding. It was pretty blatant before it was called, like it had to be a limb hook or full takedown to draw a flag.
You started to see cracks with McAdoo and the media after the 0-2 start in 2017. He called out Eli after the Lions loss.
With Shurmur, he was overly defensive. He kept reminding everyone that he was inheriting a 3 win team. He took a shot at Lauletta to make a point.
With Judge, I see a very calming presence despite the 1-6 record. There is very little noise in the building. If I had to guess, he knows this is a long process and he has assurances from Mara that he is here to see it through.
Judge is clearly a better game manager, he is more on top of preparation, he adapts his game plan better than either of our previous coaches. (Granted they were both really bad at these things)
That being said. I count 4 games where we had similar talent levels to our opponents. SF, Philly, Washington and Dallas (I'm counting this because we had the lead against their backup QB and all their injuries and they went against our stronger unit)
We lost 3 of 4 of those and could have lost 4/4. Washington had all the momentum and we couldn't stop their offense with a backup QB, and RBs and WRs that wouldn't start for most teams. McLaurin being the exception but I wouldn't call him much better than Slayton.
I can't look at that and call the job Judge is doing as good overall. What's more people were talking about Judge as if it was a forgone conclusion he was going to do well even before he ran a pre-season practice. I'd say people are still jumping to conclusions. I'm cautiously optimistic that this is a talent issue but there just isn't evidence that Judge is clearly the guy either.
I think people need to be realistic about the fact that BB himself wasn't any good in his first head coaching stint. And I think Judge faces similar factors getting in the way of potential success (sub par ownership)
I think the biggest issue is the definitive way some people seem to be talking I've seen lots of talk of, if you don't see the improvement you are crazy. I think at 1-6, losing to teams as bereft of talent as we have, in the ways we've collapsed at the end of games. I don't think it is a crazy assertion to say we very much might still be in the same problems we've been having.
McAdoo and Shurmur both were hired to win with Eli. Judge feels like a different hire. He’s going to be here for awhile, so I’m good being patient.
Saying he can't be performing well because the team is terrible is too simplistic. And there's no way for the Giants to get out of this hole without thinking analytically about the problem. So I agree - we appear to have our head coach. Next, we need a real GM.
Bingo.
That's the big question for me, and I raised it this offseason as a concern with DG staying in the building when Bill2 brought up all the modernizing the team was doing. The hindrance of owners and front office people that are clearly resistant to change is not helpful for even the smartest and most capable people.
As others have brought up too, the Garrett hire looks very much like it was something the Giants brass wanted. Graham is a very different kind of hire. So am I surprised that the D looks ahead of the offense despite most people thinking it was the other way around? No, not at all.
I also have to say. The scouting on Andrew Thomas alone is very concerning. Judge and his staff for sure got to watch plenty of film on him and the other T's and right now that looks to still be a major hole. This said, I hope that Thomas finds his game and we get to see that they can coach up a player who displays major flaws.
Judge should get 3 years IMO. But it's nothing short of gross negligence if he doesn't get a GM from outside the organization in year 2, frankly it's negligent for year 1.
I think lots of us fans are meeting more in the middle here, I'm sad it's gotten this dark but I can honestly say I 100% expected to be here and things will get worse if we don't shake up our front office.
Helps the losses not hit as hard..
I also thing thinknthey have their coach which will help because i think with his input they will turn this team around quicker then we think
This is the only way to watch the Knicks and giants without losing one’s mind like I did last night. I do well with the Knicks suckage but can’t handle the giants.
Maybe the giants really are on the right track. I’ve never seen as much optimism here (thanks to judge) so it has to be real. And i can’t find one fault with judge either. He seems perfect. Judge has done everything he could to have this team at 3-4 or even 4-3. And that’s how I felt prior to the season that this team could very well be 3-4 or 4-3. He did his part.
We have to find difference makers. I don’t care about quantity anymore. We need a super star on defense or two and a super star on offense with or without Barkley.
Need fucking therapy thx to this team...
Funny thing I did notice is NYG OL getting away with a TON of holding. It was pretty blatant before it was called, like it had to be a limb hook or full takedown to draw a flag.
Good friend of mine used to referee college football and basketball. Mostly ACC for football.
We have watched games at a local sports bar and he spots everything. He says it is abundantly clear the NFL has basically told the refs to look the other way unless it is absolutely blatant. Like Kelcee tearing off Tomlinson's helmet... ;)
Often, they would rush wide to the outside shoulders of the tackles, and then duck or spin back inside right in Jones' face. Thomas struggles to adjust and mirror his man, doesn't react well or move his feet, and his man is blowing by him. His run blocking is pretty good, he plays with pop and had some really good moments. Spreading the OL out created all sorts of gaps for stunts, and that included bringing backend players into the fun.
Looked like considerable confusion with the stunts and the power game of the DL.