Dexter Lawrence — what are you seeing?

His snap count has decreased considerably from Week 4 onward.

top-20 pick, but okay, we have him. He's good and promising, but he offers very little against the pass. I think he projects as a 3-4 NT or a 4-3 run-stuffer.

You can't spend a 1st round pick on a run-stuffing DT.

I do think he's playing out of position and may have a knee injury (Tomlinson is playing NT which is where Lawrence should be) - but the ROI is questionable.

It's too bad the Giants couldn't've pulled off the trade up for Josh Allen after they had taken Jones. That would've been a great move paying big dividends.

With coaching and development. So far I'm not really seeing that.

In comment 15021683 Anakim said:

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top-20 pick, but okay, we have him. He's good and promising, but he offers very little against the pass. I think he projects as a 3-4 NT or a 4-3 run-stuffer.

I guess Dave Gettleman really wanted that hog mollie.

In comment 15021684 mittenedman said:

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You can't spend a 1st round pick on a run-stuffing DT. I do think he's playing out of position and may have a knee injury (Tomlinson is playing NT which is where Lawrence should be) - but the ROI is questionable. It's too bad the Giants couldn't've pulled off the trade up for Josh Allen after they had taken Jones. That would've been a great move paying big dividends.

This is 100% true. They picked a non-premium position with a premium pick. And they picked a position that they were already ok at and they are now playing this player out of position.

He's a DT/NT who is playing a 3-4 end. That's not what he does.

Lawrence is exactly who I thought he was when they picked him.

It's yet another complete blunder by fucking DG.

In comment 15021709 GiantsFan84 said:

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In comment 15021684 mittenedman said: Quote: You can't spend a 1st round pick on a run-stuffing DT. I do think he's playing out of position and may have a knee injury (Tomlinson is playing NT which is where Lawrence should be) - but the ROI is questionable. It's too bad the Giants couldn't've pulled off the trade up for Josh Allen after they had taken Jones. That would've been a great move paying big dividends. This is 100% true. They picked a non-premium position with a premium pick. And they picked a position that they were already ok at and they are now playing this player out of position. He's a DT/NT who is playing a 3-4 end. That's not what he does. Lawrence is exactly who I thought he was when they picked him. It's yet another complete blunder by fucking DG.

That would be on Bettcher/Graham. Why is he playing at 3-4 DE?

sadly gettleman has botched all of the first round picks he's made as GM.

is a JAG??

Jesus man, make it stop

That went very high in the draft but we still can’t stuff the run. If it is t size can it be attitude? With their size the line of scrimmage should be a good 2-3 yards into the offenses backfield on every play.

see a really good player who frequently ties up two blockers, is stout against the run, and would be even better if we had some competent edge rushers.

run defense in the Top 10?

we can't get pressure, until that happens everything is going to be less effective.

Last year Golden actually got to the QB - the result? Lawrence had some dominant games. Right now the only guy getting to the QB has been LW and it isn't often enough to have a gamelong impact (although last night he was a beast). Golden is the JAG and its having a negative impact on the line as a whole.

That should have won the game? DL made the play that should have won the game. Yes he sucks.

he can be pretty good. There have been days where he has been our best defender, but the idea of drafting him as high as they did was they felt he could be a good interior pass rusher. That hasn't panned out yet.

That doesn't make him a bad player, or a JAG, but it does make his draft slot debatable.

The refs screwed up that call. It was clearly a fumble that we recovered and was running it back. That should have 2 points for us.

don't know what game some of you are watching.

In comment 15021742 UConn4523 said:

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we can't get pressure, until that happens everything is going to be less effective. Last year Golden actually got to the QB - the result? Lawrence had some dominant games. Right now the only guy getting to the QB has been LW and it isn't often enough to have a gamelong impact (although last night he was a beast). Golden is the JAG and its having a negative impact on the line as a whole.

I tend to agree with you and think Big Dex could be an important part of a good DL. I (probably unrealistically) thought though that we’d see OL constantly being bent back by his 330 lbs. He’s still young, so maybe still developing.

Been playing great idk what some of you are watching

In comment 15021737 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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run defense in the Top 10?

Depending on the category, yes and no.

8th in yards per rush. 5th in yards per attempt, 17th in rush TD allowed.

*

pretty damn good. Lawrence is a big part of that, as is Tomlinson and Williams.

Each week we get some head-scratching threads about players who actually are pulling their own weight

WTAMF?

In comment 15021683 Anakim said:

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top-20 pick, but okay, we have him. He's good and promising, but he offers very little against the pass. I think he projects as a 3-4 NT or a 4-3 run-stuffer.

He would have been a great pick if we had a real pass rusher.

In comment 15021765 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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pretty damn good. Lawrence is a big part of that, as is Tomlinson and Williams. Each week we get some head-scratching threads about players who actually are pulling their own weight

Bingo. Do we not recall the past few years where we were just getting decimated by the run? People bitch about Lawrence getting drafting. They bitch about bringing in Williams. They are a lot better against the run on D.

WTF?

We run a 3-4. Pass rush needs to come from the LB group. Lawrence is filling his role and so is Darvin.

The roster isn't built right. There is no consistent threat at edge rusher.

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The role he plays is not where that type of draft pick gets spent. Any pass rush you get from him is a bonus. To me, he's a NT. That's not a top ten position.

Without knowing scheme and assignments its almost impossible unless a guy is being taken to the woodshed. Especially with run stuffing D Lineman.

In comment 15021798 BlueHurricane said:

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Without knowing scheme and assignments its almost impossible unless a guy is being taken to the woodshed. Especially with run stuffing D Lineman.

Just asking what you’re seeing. Not arguing, not pretending to know anything about line play (which I most assuredly don’t).

In comment 15021718 Angel Eyes said:

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In comment 15021709 GiantsFan84 said: Quote: In comment 15021684 mittenedman said: Quote: You can't spend a 1st round pick on a run-stuffing DT. I do think he's playing out of position and may have a knee injury (Tomlinson is playing NT which is where Lawrence should be) - but the ROI is questionable. It's too bad the Giants couldn't've pulled off the trade up for Josh Allen after they had taken Jones. That would've been a great move paying big dividends. This is 100% true. They picked a non-premium position with a premium pick. And they picked a position that they were already ok at and they are now playing this player out of position. He's a DT/NT who is playing a 3-4 end. That's not what he does. Lawrence is exactly who I thought he was when they picked him. It's yet another complete blunder by fucking DG. That would be on Bettcher/Graham. Why is he playing at 3-4 DE?

It's on Bettcher. Graham is just using the personnel he has on hand.

a young Leonard Williams. Spin that however you like.

None of the DTs are going to look great until there's also a pass rush from the edges.

... Lawrence is one of the few really good players we have, so he has to line up on the field somewhere.

In comment 15021786 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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The role he plays is not where that type of draft pick gets spent. Any pass rush you get from him is a bonus. To me, he's a NT. That's not a top ten position.

I don't agree. QB, Edge Rusher, LT, RT are definitively above a NT/DT but you can argue that's it. Stopping the run is unbelievable valuable, as is taking on doubles to free up pass rushers.

We just aren't seeing the fruits of the labor because the pass rush talent it so poor. That Blake Martinez blitz up the middle is a prime example. Can't remember the last time we pulled that off.

.

I'm not saying he isn't a legit NFL player. He's just not an impact player. When I say JAG - look at the Eagles DT's Hargraves and Cox. Is Lawrence any better than them? Is he any better than Tomlinson and Austin Johnson? He's clearly below the top tier DTs like Donald, Hicks, Cox, Buckner, etc. Go right through the other teams in the NFL. Payne & Allen for the Skins. You're telling me Dexter Lawrence is much more than an average starter?

I am not a fan of drafting run stuffing DTs in the 1st round unless you are talking about a Vince Wilfork/young Snacks Harrison. Completely dominant. Just like RBs, a good GM should be able to find run stuffers in the later rounds and bargain bin free agency.

Gettleman (who I don't hate nearly as much as others) did this in Carolina too - he drafted Victor Butler in the 1st round when he already had Star Lotulelei and Kawaan Short.

Can you honestly say there is that much a difference between Dexter Lawrence and - say - Austin Johnson to warrant taking Lawrence in the 1st round?

Linval Joseph 2.0. He's an absolute physical monster but a lot of his production is limited because his usage on this team is redundant to that of Dalvin Tomlinson. Rather than shoot gaps this scheme relies on the big boys up front to be versatile moving laterally and taking on doubles so guys like Blake Martinez can fill more aggressively. Tomlinson is really good in this scheme but Lawrence is kind of a tweener who's size and athletic ability kind of gets lost here. He's not as good at flowing through double teams as Tomlinson, but he doesn't have the upfield pass rush skills of Leonard Williams, and BJ Hill. One on one though, none of these guys can impose their will and just toss guys around the way he can. He is an absolute force when he can just maul through his blocker head on. As frustrated as we are with his lack of snaps and QB pressures, some team like Minnesota will jump on him in free agency, give him a penetrator role where he can wreak havoc in the interior, and he'll become an all pro.

whoa, whoa. Lawrence isn't playing better than Austin Johnson now??

I really people would understand the role of the DT. And the impact they have. Just taking up blockers and neutralizing the line, not only stuffs the run, but allows LB's and safeties to come in cleanly for tackles.

Ask Martinez if he thinks Lawrence is doing a great job.

So many people want to boil down DT play to sacks. And if they don't get them, then that player is dinged and downgraded. But that's only by fans. Coaches know what role the DT is supposed to serve.

Think he is an above average DL but he gets worn out as a game goes on and is playing out of his ideal position. The key to him and Williams would to have a Stud pass rusher added I think this defense is one good Edge and CB from being elite

In comment 15021819 jtfuoco said:

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Think he is an above average DL but he gets worn out as a game goes on and is playing out of his ideal position. The key to him and Williams would to have a Stud pass rusher added I think this defense is one good Edge and CB from being elite

Dear god, please allow McKinney to be the smart, versatile, ball hawking safety we need ... c’mon, throw us a bone.

In comment 15021807 FStubbs said:

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In comment 15021718 Angel Eyes said: Quote: In comment 15021709 GiantsFan84 said: Quote: In comment 15021684 mittenedman said: Quote: You can't spend a 1st round pick on a run-stuffing DT. I do think he's playing out of position and may have a knee injury (Tomlinson is playing NT which is where Lawrence should be) - but the ROI is questionable. It's too bad the Giants couldn't've pulled off the trade up for Josh Allen after they had taken Jones. That would've been a great move paying big dividends. This is 100% true. They picked a non-premium position with a premium pick. And they picked a position that they were already ok at and they are now playing this player out of position. He's a DT/NT who is playing a 3-4 end. That's not what he does. Lawrence is exactly who I thought he was when they picked him. It's yet another complete blunder by fucking DG. That would be on Bettcher/Graham. Why is he playing at 3-4 DE? It's on Bettcher. Graham is just using the personnel he has on hand.

And yet he's still listed as a defensive end.

if you think Lawrence is a JAG that tells me all I need to know about the poster.

Vita Vea was a top 10 pick at DT and no one batted an eye. In the 3-4 having that space eater inside is critical. Just because you can't discern his impact does not mean it's non existent. He eats up double teams and allows the ILBs room to operate. Leonardo Williams is playing as well as he ever has because teams are forced to double Lawrence. There is plenty to complain about, he's not

when he was drafted,between size and movement he would be a great player. He is a very good player.

In comment 15021810 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 15021786 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: The role he plays is not where that type of draft pick gets spent. Any pass rush you get from him is a bonus. To me, he's a NT. That's not a top ten position. I don't agree. QB, Edge Rusher, LT, RT are definitively above a NT/DT but you can argue that's it. Stopping the run is unbelievable valuable, as is taking on doubles to free up pass rushers. We just aren't seeing the fruits of the labor because the pass rush talent it so poor. That Blake Martinez blitz up the middle is a prime example. Can't remember the last time we pulled that off.

I meant not a position you spend a top ten pick on, sorry. There are only so many people on the planet that can be a true NT but those guys don't go top ten. Even Vince Wilfork didn't go top 10 and he was a certified pass rusher. I go back to my point that I believe in the player, but I think they took him more on what they thought was his potential and what he could be after learning from a DL coach at the pro level. The expectation wasn't a run plugged. It was more of a two-way guy and in that I feel he was overdrafted.

was Lawrence picked in the Top 10?

#17 overall

Dexter Lawrence has 1 less sack than Clenin Ferrell and a lot more tacklets. Ferrell was drafted as more of a pass rusher at #4 overall.

I recall seeing someone the other day lauding the Raiders organization. It's funny the things people choose to shit on. Lawrence is not one of them.

In comment 15021886 KDavies said:

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Dexter Lawrence has 1 less sack than Clenin Ferrell and a lot more tacklets. Ferrell was drafted as more of a pass rusher at #4 overall. I recall seeing someone the other day lauding the Raiders organization. It's funny the things people choose to shit on. Lawrence is not one of them.

I would have picked Maxx Crosby over Oshane Ximines though.