Jones fumble last night

fumble, people would have pointed to the INT and another game with a turnover.

Anyone talking about the fumble shows a lack of awareness on the impact it had. If's he's sacked there or throws an incomplete pass, we're still fucked

Until he stops doing it REGULARLY. Period.

And until he stops doing it, there is always going to be a BUT in the sentence describing Jones. DJ is a good QB, BUT . . .

because Engram sucks. Big deal.

Would have been nice if our 6 could block their 4.

You can’t stop that, but you can ignore them.

is generally bad. Obviously. But I think too much is made of it, in Jones' case. The problem with Jones is that aside from the fumbling, he's an ordinary player. It's not like he's amazing and then sometimes he fumbles.

In comment 15021832 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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fumble, people would have pointed to the INT and another game with a turnover. Anyone talking about the fumble shows a lack of awareness on the impact it had. If's he's sacked there or throws an incomplete pass, we're still fucked

Ehh, the int was tipped. That's why i didn't mention it

but he held on to the ball so long, I thought he was taking
a picture back there...now you can't do that.
The first pick, he zinged the ball too hard, Engram was
five yards away. Engram had his own issues later, BAD drop!

He had 30 sec no time outs, need the receivers to run down the field 30 yards before throwing. He didn’t have the time and was stripped. No pocket at all. It’s not the fumble. If you say why didn’t they roll him right to get the receivers down the field for the heave then you make a case.

I had a similar experience
In high school I was in a 100 yard race (this dates me)
At the 60 yard marker I was out in front about 10 yards clear of the field

I wanted to kick into another gear but my head was faster than my feet and my legs tangled

I fell injuring my knee and finished last
Fortunately there was no video but,
I never lived that down and when I get together with my friends that always seems to come

or only being able to see things merely as the thing itself without any cognitive ability whatsoever to be able to distinguish individuality, circumstance, or context. And in responding (as I have here, I know), you are only trying to reach the lowest common denominator rather than trying to work for societal evolution or uplifting.

In comment 15021835 David B. said:

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Until he stops doing it REGULARLY. Period. And until he stops doing it, there is always going to be a BUT in the sentence describing Jones. DJ is a good QB, BUT . . .

It's always going to be something with DJ, is how it's shaping up, so far. When you turn him loose, so do the turnovers. It's why I thought Garrett tried to make him more of a game manager last week. They've probably concluded that's the best way he'll give us a chance to win. Because when they open up the playbook, the turnovers also show up.

Its troubling to see him put it on the ground at any time.

In comment 15021905 weeg in the bronx said:

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Its troubling to see him put it on the ground at any time.

Exactly why I was unable to process that play in a bubble. Like I said, if he never fumbled and this was just a young QB desperately trying to make a play to win the game, this doesn't really register. But, this is a guy who has fumbled in nearly every game he's played and a game where he doesn't is supposed to be a moral victory. So, no, his fumble or his play didn't lose the game. But, yes, his fumble ended the game and it wasn't an isolated incident.

In comment 15021832 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Anyone talking about the fumble shows a lack of awareness on the impact it had. If's he's sacked there or throws an incomplete pass, we're still fucked

You can understand it had no impact on this particular game and still acknowledge he has a bad habit of holding the ball low and unprotected when he's looking downfield. We're not talking about a guy who hasn't lost a fumble in a while.

In comment 15021954 widmerseyebrow said:

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In comment 15021832 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Anyone talking about the fumble shows a lack of awareness on the impact it had. If's he's sacked there or throws an incomplete pass, we're still fucked You can understand it had no impact on this particular game and still acknowledge he has a bad habit of holding the ball low and unprotected when he's looking downfield. We're not talking about a guy who hasn't lost a fumble in a while.

FatMan just a sack with no fumble fucks us there also. An incompletion puts us in a shitty situation, but there's still 1 more shot. The fumble eliminated any shot. And just a sack would be related to the same problem as the fumbles in that pocket awareness and internal clock are issues. He overcomes those at points in games for big plays. Other times (seemingly more times) he does not.

In comment 15022026 Matt M. said:

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In comment 15021954 widmerseyebrow said: Quote: In comment 15021832 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Anyone talking about the fumble shows a lack of awareness on the impact it had. If's he's sacked there or throws an incomplete pass, we're still fucked You can understand it had no impact on this particular game and still acknowledge he has a bad habit of holding the ball low and unprotected when he's looking downfield. We're not talking about a guy who hasn't lost a fumble in a while. FatMan just a sack with no fumble fucks us there also. An incompletion puts us in a shitty situation, but there's still 1 more shot. The fumble eliminated any shot. And just a sack would be related to the same problem as the fumbles in that pocket awareness and internal clock are issues. He overcomes those at points in games for big plays. Other times (seemingly more times) he does not.

So we went from .05 percent chance of winning to zero.

He did well enough to win it

once Philly got that quick score after we went up 21-10, I knew we were cooked..
Up 21-10 with 6 to go, thats the time for the pass rush, defense to close it out

In comment 15021893 Spider43 said:

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In comment 15021835 David B. said: Quote: Until he stops doing it REGULARLY. Period. And until he stops doing it, there is always going to be a BUT in the sentence describing Jones. DJ is a good QB, BUT . . . It's always going to be something with DJ, is how it's shaping up, so far. When you turn him loose, so do the turnovers. It's why I thought Garrett tried to make him more of a game manager last week. They've probably concluded that's the best way he'll give us a chance to win. Because when they open up the playbook, the turnovers also show up.

They had fewer passes because they had injuries at WR. Slayton was in and out. Mack played more than Tate. Board got injured.

Because of the context. He has fumbled in enough games to make it statistically relevant. He spent the offseason working on it and it still happens. He needs a better feel for the rush. He was hit a lot a Duke and he fumbled there too, 19 times. At some point he has to clean it up. When? When is the deadline? For the people that are not worried, when will you be?

Look at the replay..he is standing still with no vision in the pocket. Jones is not the answer. QBs who have no pocket presence and are TO are not NFL starting QBs.

In comment 15022035 Paulie Walnuts said:

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He did well enough to win it once Philly got that quick score after we went up 21-10, I knew we were cooked.. Up 21-10 with 6 to go, thats the time for the pass rush, defense to close it out

No, you are definitively wrong and the final score proves it without any possible debate. We needed him to be a little bit better. Sure, someone else else could have stepped up but they did not. I will agree that he did not lose the game but I cannot accept that he played well enough to win because we lost. If he had played just a little bit better we might have won.

....and the fumble, although desperation time, is still a concern.

In my mind, that particular play would involve the QB out of the pocket and making a big throw down the field. Think Josh Allen. John Elway. Even.....Carson Wentz.

Look, I like DJ and think he can win in the league and be a really good QB. I compared him to Chad Pennington....maybe even Alex Smith at his highwater mark is the best comparision.

But in that particular situation last night, 33 seconds after a penalty, I don't see him making that big time throw needed. Unless the talent level gets a helluva lot better.

In comment 15021832 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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fumble, people would have pointed to the INT and another game with a turnover. Anyone talking about the fumble shows a lack of awareness on the impact it had. If's he's sacked there or throws an incomplete pass, we're still fucked

The game was already over, the fumble didn't decide the game.

With that said, there's no excuse for fumbling literally every game DJ plays in. That's a DJ problem and it's unacceptable. Protecting the football is one of the most important aspects of being an NFL QB.

to the rest of the game. He was pressing to make a play and he's keeping the ball on his hip to wind up for a big play. This fumble is completely situational. He knew he had to uncork one deep at some point. The rest of the game the ball is up. He actually did a good job there which is hopeful.

...watching Jones, then watching SD's Justin Herbert, while Jones seems like he'll be an ok QB, you can just SEE Herbert has the 'it' factor that Jones seems to lack. They got the Eli clone they hoped for, but without the pedigree or the chops. Maybe, like Eli, Jones will develop and carry the team to a SB someday, but right now, I'd trade him for Herbert in a heartbeat.

He is so wrapped up in the argument for Jones being good or not that he can't see straight.

The point is the Giants are NOT winning. In games decided so close one possession MATTERS. One turnover MATTERS.

The idea that the OP doesn't understand is that the team needs to try to NOT make turnovers yet the OP is trying to EXCUSE turnovers.

At some point he has to stop making turnovers, right? In 20 games he has lost 15 fumbles and thrown 19 interceptions. How is that good? SO over the last two years the Giants have sucked and the QB has committed 34 turnovers and you want to bury the discussion?

I'll reiterate I'm okay with Jones so far. The team sucks. But please let's not whine about any criticism.

All I want is for this WR corps to stay healthy for the rest of the year. Having Shepherd back, and three at least journeyman level WRs at the same time (Slayton, Tate, shep) is desperately needed to let Jones develop some relationships. I thought he was overall really strong last night. As tough as the game was in the moment and man was I crushed by the Engram drop and the predictable disaster that followed, Jones really did some nice things.

This WR Corp when healthy is lower third in the league. But when any of them are hurt (particularly shep or Slayton) he is working with the worst and least explosive WR corps in the league. Really hoping he gets a chance to settle in with a consistent supporting cast.

Neither of his turnovers bothered me last night. Engram batted the int in an unfortunate durection and all bets are off in the last 30 seconds needing to hero ball.