According to NFL.com, he played in 13 games last year, and he has started all 7 games this year. So he has played in ~20 games and has 9 games left this year. In other words, we have seen 2/3 of his games by the end of this year.
What do we need to see in his final 1/3 of games? I feel if his final 1/3 of games are similar to the first 2/3, we move on IF we can get Lawrence or Fields. I'd want to see a pretty marked improvement, especially in turnovers, over the final 9 games to stick with him.
I understand that he's playing behind a shit OL and with crummy skill players, but truly good QBs do more with less.
What say you?
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but you've gotta be fair - when called upon to make a game winning play Jones made it. Engram didn't.
He should have caught that ball but I have issue with calling the pass perfect. It was on his fingertips, it would have been a good catch.
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In comment 15022049 Saquads26 said:
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Name some...
This year, Carson Wentz, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Gardner Minshew have outplayed Jones with comparable surrounding players.
You can't be that stupid! All have been in the same system for at least 2 seasons.. Jags receivers would all be an upgrade, Phins receivers Williams and Parker would stars with Jones and Eagles Te's and Fulgram would be huge upgrades..
This is actually Wentz's 5th year in this system (2016-2020).
Jones' main issue is the pocket awareness/time for a play to develop. Most of his fumbles and sacks are due to this issue. The other big issue for Jones is that he has played the majority of his games with very little talent around him in the skills positions (injuries) and Oline (poor personnel decisions).
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Name some...
This year, Carson Wentz, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Gardner Minshew have outplayed Jones with comparable surrounding players.
Even if you really think Jones has been outplayed by those three, you sort of make the point for everyone else.
What have Minshew, Wentz or Fitzpatrick won this year? There's a 1 win team, a 2 win team and 3 win team in there
I actually don't think anyone other than Darnold has less offensive talent around him than Jones. I do think Herbert and Burrow look quite good with pretty mediocre talent around them, but it's too early to really judge.
I think Wilson has had some atrocious talent around him at points in the preceding years.
If they get #1, they need to take Lawrence.
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but you've gotta be fair - when called upon to make a game winning play Jones made it. Engram didn't.
He should have caught that ball but I have issue with calling the pass perfect. It was on his fingertips, it would have been a good catch.
This is the NFL. That pass has to be caught 100 times out of 100. That was a perfect throw.
How are we going to get Lawrence? I really can't see the Jets finishing with the same or better record than us. They really look on course to go 0-16. And Washington are probably going to end up with a worse record too.
Trevor Lawrence may well look at the Jets and say, "Nah, I think I'll spend another year in college."*
*And the Jets end up with the #1 pick in 2022.
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In comment 15022202 Go Terps said:
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but you've gotta be fair - when called upon to make a game winning play Jones made it. Engram didn't.
He should have caught that ball but I have issue with calling the pass perfect. It was on his fingertips, it would have been a good catch.
This is the NFL. That pass has to be caught 100 times out of 100. That was a perfect throw.
Engram drop - ( New Window )
That said, Jones has some nice attributes and showed a lot of grit last night. Extremely accurate with the football. His mobility is a weapon that needs to be utilized more. Makes pretty good decisions in the pocket. Outside of that, hard to get a read with the trash OL.
We’ll see how it plays out but I’m leaning towards giving him a fair shake and building around him. Root for a high pick and trade it down for a boatload of picks.
For me the issue is the turnovers. He has the most turnovers through 20 games of any QB ever. Second is Geno. That is really, really bad.
Last year Jones had 13 tds and 0 ints in the RZ. Yesterday PFF had it as his best game on the throws where he had a clean pocket. He engineered 1 of the best 4Q drives with a lead we've seen in years. As Aikman said, when he's given time he consistently makes elite throws. Both TD throws and the throw to Engram being examples of that.
Yesterday looked like Garrett finally loosened the reigns a little bit early in the game and obviously Shepard back helped as well. I would 100% sign for DJ playing to the exact same level as he did yesterday in any game the rest of the season. And if he does this team will simply not be in the Trevor Lawrence discussion for more than one reason.
1. Jones's mobility is a huge asset. There should be 8-10 planned QB runs each game. A priority this offseason should be acquiring two backup quarterbacks with mobility.
2. Jones is NOT a traditional pocket passer. If he is in the pocket past 2-3 seconds the chances of a successful play go down dramatically. The pass plays have to be designed to be prescribed throws - three prime examples from last night:
- TD to Tate
- big gain to Shepard (Aikman pointed it out - 3 steps and the ball was out)
- Engram drop
On these throws Jones probably identified his target pre-snap. In these situations he is a great passer. But you can't have him scanning for second or third reads. It has to be prescribed. Otherwise he's a liability.
THIS GUY IS NOT ELI. DON'T TRY TO MAKE HIM ELI.
QB runs, RPOs, rollouts - that's what works with Jones.
In 20 games, how many times has Jones had a clean pocket for 3 seconds? Seriously. Once or twice a game? Other QB's enjoy 3 seconds routinely – not every play, but routinely.
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In comment 15022264 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 15022202 Go Terps said:
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but you've gotta be fair - when called upon to make a game winning play Jones made it. Engram didn't.
He should have caught that ball but I have issue with calling the pass perfect. It was on his fingertips, it would have been a good catch.
This is the NFL. That pass has to be caught 100 times out of 100. That was a perfect throw.
12 inches shorter would have been perfect. I still have the recording in HD. Watch it, it would be a good catch. He was running full speed and it hit his fingers, his palms did not touch it as far as I can tell. Looks like he got most of his fingers on it. NFL players should make that catch. not easily, not quite perfect pass. He had steps on the defender, it did not have to be as far.
Lol you are clueless (as already stated numerous times). It was an absolutely perfect pass. Engram didn’t even extend his arms! 99.99% of NLF players catch that ball...
Last year Jones had 13 tds and 0 ints in the RZ. Yesterday PFF had it as his best game on the throws where he had a clean pocket. He engineered 1 of the best 4Q drives with a lead we've seen in years. As Aikman said, when he's given time he consistently makes elite throws. Both TD throws and the throw to Engram being examples of that.
Yesterday looked like Garrett finally loosened the reigns a little bit early in the game and obviously Shepard back helped as well. I would 100% sign for DJ playing to the exact same level as he did yesterday in any game the rest of the season. And if he does this team will simply not be in the Trevor Lawrence discussion for more than one reason.
No, not all turnovers are equal, but over 20 games having the most turnovers cannot be attributed away to flukishness.
Lumping everything in as "turnovers" obscures things because as much as turnovers have continued to be an issue, he has actually improved his ball security in terms of fumbles. Here were your fumble leaders going into week 7:
5 - Zeke, Carr, Wentz, Burrow
4 - D Jones, Lock, Brady, Minshew, Haskins
Notice 3 of his contemporary 2nd year QBs also on poor teams, a rookie from this year, a HOF'er, and Wentz who has played behind a patchwork OL (and who also put the ball on the ground last night). Certainly not a list anyone wants to be on but also not "worst ever".
This year's issue is that he's thrown more picks and all around he just hasn't been as comfortable or successful in Garrett's scheme as he was in Shurmur's seemingly from day 1. That said I think we are seeing progress and the 2 picks each of the past 2 weeks were not the result of an incorrect decision but lack of execution from both Jones and his teammates. Kaden Smith got blown up by Chase Young and Jones couldn't get enough on the ball to get it out of play. Engram not only didn't secure the catch but he popped it up in the middle of the field. With last night having been Jones' best game throwing the ball all season it's odd to me to dismiss the context and act like Jones is holding them back when I think there's a far better case the opposite is true. If Engram makes 2 catches last night that each hit him in the hands Jones has 0 TO's and the Giants Org has their first win over the Eagles since 2016.
Lawrence is projected to be a superstar. You keep him at all costs. QB's are protected by the NFL.
And you can trade Jones if he is any good. He looks okay to me. Trade him then you get multiple picks. And you have cap space.
**********If Lawrence were the QB- the Giants would have 3 or 4 wins this year. He is better than Jones more than likely. That's how much a difference maker a QB is.
And Rodgers was the only first rounder of the three and he went in the mid-20's.
And Rodgers was the only first rounder of the three and he went in the mid-20's.
Doesn't make a difference where they were drafted. The fact is Lawrence is considered to be like them as a pro. A superstar. You are drafting what nearly all experts will consider a superstar similar to Luck. Who are we ot argue someone considered that great who has produced in big games vs Bama and Ohio State?
If projections at end of college season suggest he is not all that - then sure bypass him. But I don't believe I should fight the vast majority that will probably claim he is a probable superstar.
I just want to reiterate - I do NOT dislike Jones.
Sorry but Jones has to go. The team is not competitive and it mostly is on him.
Go back & watch last years dolphin game when Eli played. Same line ,same supporting cast.
He makes that same throw to Golden Tate like it was nothing. Literally the same throw that got me thinking “we’re onto something “ last night watching the game , We are not. i fell into the trap too thinking jones is the goods after the Tate touchdown... were so used to mediocre play from jones that when he does something good it’s supposed to be a big deal.
I threw a lot of picks but like typical Eli he also threw deep a lot. / td’s.They were up 2 scores ; scored 30 + points. That a team that would be playoff bound if not for fitz late start. Not some one win division team .
That L wasn't on him. The W should have been, and he damn near did it without help.
Other teams' mediocre players make key plays. Some of the Giants' "stars" simply don't, not at key junctures.
Jones can't throw the ball and then catch it himself.
Maybe it's impetuous to think one can make a judgement based on one game. Hell it probably is, but its not like the kid hasn't flashed before.
Thin slice analysis: Jones is the real deal.
Also, listened to Jordan Ranaan's pre game pod with two Eagles ESPN guys. One of the Eagles' beats, maybe both of them, said they made multiple calls around the league to "sources they trust" to get the skinny on Jones. Bottom line, Jones is very highly thought of throughout the league. Giants (ie, DG) did not err selecting Jones at 6... He's got it all.
Unfortunately, he has yet to play one game with a truly explosive receiving threat. We must, perhaps above all our other glaring needs, get some explosive speed on the outside.
Unfortunately, he has yet to play one game with a truly explosive receiving threat. We must, perhaps above all our other glaring needs, get some explosive speed on the outside.
Honestly I think you are dead wrong about what Jones needs at WR (and TE too). He needs a couple of guys that really CATCH the ball 1) reliably and 2) win in contested ball situations well better than 50%.
Engram is a "burner" himself... But he doesn't catch reliably, let alone win contested balls. DJ would be better served byguys like Kevin Boss or Greg Ballard than Engram.
My position has been that during the bye-week, the coaches and staff will work with the WHOLE team to work out the kinks and to "coach up" the young guys who need it.
I am going to judge Jones "post-bye week" for mainly turnovers. I believe post-bye we go with youth mostly:
Thomas-Hernandez-Gates-Lemiuex-Peartt - those five bodies will hopefully pave the way for 2021...
1. Jones's mobility is a huge asset. There should be 8-10 planned QB runs each game. A priority this offseason should be acquiring two backup quarterbacks with mobility.
2. Jones is NOT a traditional pocket passer. If he is in the pocket past 2-3 seconds the chances of a successful play go down dramatically. The pass plays have to be designed to be prescribed throws - three prime examples from last night:
- TD to Tate
- big gain to Shepard (Aikman pointed it out - 3 steps and the ball was out)
- Engram drop
On these throws Jones probably identified his target pre-snap. In these situations he is a great passer. But you can't have him scanning for second or third reads. It has to be prescribed. Otherwise he's a liability.
THIS GUY IS NOT ELI. DON'T TRY TO MAKE HIM ELI.
QB runs, RPOs, rollouts - that's what works with Jones.
No one except some idiot journalists and fans making him out to be Eli.
You don’t think it is weird that you are calling for an NFL qb to basically just continue with college level qb play?
College qbs do that sort of thing because ...
A. They can’t throw
B. He rules are different
Constantly rolling out cuts half the field ... you run it once is awhile .
The element of surprise works to get dj big yards on qb runs.
Do it often enough and defenses will catch on quick
I
Agree with the earlier post that most people have no idea what they are watching on TV
Agree with the earlier post that most people have no idea what they are watching on TV
Anyone with a half a brain saw that DJ outplayed Wentz Thursday and just look at who had the better stat line. Kinda tells you what stats mean in football, at least traditional ones.
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For the rest of the season I just want him to have shep/Tate/Slayton all healthy. They aren’t a great unit, bottom third of the league I think. But, they are competent enough that Jones will be able to work 9n things and progress with three decent pros to work with.
Unfortunately, he has yet to play one game with a truly explosive receiving threat. We must, perhaps above all our other glaring needs, get some explosive speed on the outside.
Honestly I think you are dead wrong about what Jones needs at WR (and TE too). He needs a couple of guys that really CATCH the ball 1) reliably and 2) win in contested ball situations well better than 50%.
Engram is a "burner" himself... But he doesn't catch reliably, let alone win contested balls. DJ would be better served byguys like Kevin Boss or Greg Ballard than Engram.
That’s a good point. I certainly agree that those are important elements for Jones’ new receivers. I think hands and fight are minimum requirements for starting NFL WR’s. That’s why shephard’s return is big. He displays those “floor” traits better than anyone else we have
However, he needs someone who can credibly stretch the field and, at least occasionally, get separation. It would allow Jones a respite from trying to put throws into minimal windows. It would also be the first time Jones has a WR that demands game planning and will open up other areas.
Engram May be a “burner” compared to other TE’S, but even the fastest TE’s are not vertical threats. Right now we have mostly slow-ish receivers who run similar routes and rarely create an easy play for the QB. We need to find Jones a legitimate top 15 NFL wideout.
So as long as he is good -- the Giants desperately need to ensure he doesn't take the beating like he's ben taking.
SO ensure you get him adequate protection -- he is young and young kids sometimes have way too much bravado.
And most importantly he needs at least one of a big time tall receiver OR legit stud big tight end. Would love to have both but right now this team has neither.
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I'm very happy so far of the coaching. OFC I'm strictly speaking as a Giants fan - I think Peterson and Rivera are nuts. And I think McCarthy is now incompetent. Again these are highly successful coaches - so I'm only saying it as a fan and realize it doesn't mean much. It's just right now I'm happy with what I see from Judge. I think if he gets talent - he won't get overwhelmed by opposing coaches even if I'm wrong for example about the others in our division. But even the nuts coaches can do very well.
Eli did not take no 3 years to do anything. He was rocking and rolling by year 2. Moreover he had his 2nd best year in 2007. And it was a year that was one for the history books; in if 2011 never happened. Let's face it Eli was a pretty rare commodity. He beat up a pretty decent Miami Dolphins team last year at nearly 40 years old.